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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove

franconp

Member
You both voted for her tho? o_O;

I has a theory that they were Watchman (or at least it was called like that in Just Mafia. A role that can know who targeted them).

We targeted them N1 and Tim's first post was throwing shade at me for a faulty meta read. Then StarSketch said that she would do a deep read on us at the same time that Kitsune did theirs. And then they went after Ouro who said that also targeted them.

I thought they were worried about us si they tried to get us lynched.
 
Well, I'm glad our silencing is at least semi confirmed, even if it's NAI. PRs been a bust this game. Go team, lol.

I've got to get ready for class but man, I just feel like in general there's a lot of uncertainty around.
 

Dr. Worm

Banned
Xbro's teasing of an idea about our role was why I was partial to offing him during the last phase. We weren't sure why we had so many people looking at us D2 (Ouro, kit, Star), and we found it pretty suspicious, to the point where we were concerned that we were compromised by a scum Watcher or role cop.
 
I has a theory that they were Watchman (or at least it was called like that in Just Mafia. A role that can know who targeted them).

We targeted them N1 and Tim's first post was throwing shade at me for a faulty meta read. Then StarSketch said that she would do a deep read on us at the same time that Kitsune did theirs. And then they went after Ouro who said that also targeted them.

I thought they were worried about us si they tried to get us lynched.

It ended up wrong, but I like that explanation.
 

Ty4on

Member
Xbro's teasing of an idea about our role was why I was partial to offing him during the last phase. We weren't sure why we had so many people looking at us D2 (Ouro, kit, Star), and we found it pretty suspicious, to the point where we were concerned that we were compromised by a scum Watcher or role cop.

Scum probably has something similar considering they hit a PR.
 
Hmm. I hope Flush turns up soon because he asked Burb for clarification and that might shed some light. I know he bought their cover but that is interesting and I wasn't here so I missed that detail in my scramble to catch up.

Regardless of whether or not it means anything, why write it off immediately?
 
Hmm. I hope Flush turns up soon because he asked Burb for clarification and that might shed some light. I know he bought their cover but that is interesting and I wasn't here so I missed that detail in my scramble to catch up.

Regardless of whether or not it means anything, why write it off immediately?

It's less that I'm writing it off and more that I see it more as a town sign than a scum sign. If they'd been told "you're blocked for the day, but if you were town then you'd be blocked for the night as well," or something to that effect, why would Xbro make the mistake of only claiming blocked for the day, if you couldn't coordinate that exchange with your partner, it's something you'd expect scum to be conscious of, whereas town wouldn't need to worry about that.
 

Natiko

Banned
No, because we took one of those pairs out, remember? (Sorry, my math was bad in the love boat, Crimson >_<)

Either way, we should treat this as Mylo. Eight pairs left, so it could very well be five town pairs and three scum pairs.
Is there ever a reason to not no lynch here when we've seen no evidence of a multiple death night?
I think we should lay out our cases, because I feel like racohrs and Tygger have a better chance than xKark but I'm always willing to listen to arguments.

I feel bad for AbBro because he kinda got the short end of the mafia stick here.
I don't even know at this point. I feel like by the last day end I scum read far more boats than can be scum.

It's less that I'm writing it off and more that I see it more as a town sign than a scum sign. If they'd been told "you're blocked for the day, but if you were town then you'd be blocked for the night as well," or something to that effect, why would Xbro make the mistake of only claiming blocked for the day, if you couldn't coordinate that exchange with your partner, it's something you'd expect scum to be conscious of, whereas town wouldn't need to worry about that.
If town need not worry about it why swoop in with the correction?
 
Darryl and Nin, huh? That's not what i expected at all. I can't remember anyone explicitly town reading them. I also did not pick up any hints at a PR. Hmmm...

______________

Also, just for reference: I obviously noticed that XBro slip when it happened but Kark was quick to correct it and how would he know if he was Scum (That's a recitation of my thoughts back then, before I asked Burb about the info scum would be given)

I remembered it at some point during D3 but didn't bring it up to make sure Ouro not to distract from the Ouro lynch, which I was quite sure would be a Scum lynch. There wasn't going to be a NK anyway.

I want to add to the situation how incredibly quick Kark posted they were silenced. One could think he wanted to prevent another Scum member to accidently post that they were silenced... Only problem is that Ouro (Town) also claimed silenced very quickly, so I'm not too confident in that theory.
 
I don't even know at this point. I feel like by the last day end I scum read far more boats than can be scum.


If town need not worry about it why swoop in with the correction?

agreed re: scumreading. Or rather I see scum potential in far more teams than I should. As for the second, the correction would, I'd guess, be to stave off this being a point of discussion then. It's a small thing and either the slip or the correction could be town or scum read, depending on spin, so by itself, I'm not sure it means much, but worth considering against other things.

Ty, was there a reason you chose the beginning of d2 to read?
 
Hmm. I hope Flush turns up soon because he asked Burb for clarification and that might shed some light. I know he bought their cover but that is interesting and I wasn't here so I missed that detail in my scramble to catch up.

Regardless of whether or not it means anything, why write it off immediately?

First post on page 4 of our chat, honey. My notes not only have charming words but sometimes even information in them ;)
 

Ty4on

Member
I wanna eat and read a book before I go to bed so I'll just leave this here:

Town:
rac & acohrs
Sawneeks & Sorian
hey_monkey & Royal_Flush
franconp & Dr. Worm
Natiko & Nomadic Sparks

Scum
CrimsonFist & Sophia
Xbro & Karkador

In no order. As I wrote in my boat last day a lot of it is PoE:
Kinda running with it because I think Muffin et al are town because general behavior and town slip, think francorb are town because friction with kitsune, think Star is town because oblivious to kitsune, think Darryl is town because D1 kitsune vote into no D2 bus, think Natiko is town because tunnel on me, think Flush is town because claim, and think Sorian is town because claim kinda makes sense and is a bit weird as scum.
Kinda hard to translate.
I don't see Muffin slot as scum for general behavior. Tons of little things like focusing hard on Darryl when kitsune/FEP were being lynched.
Natiko similarly was dead set on tunneling on me while they were being lynched and had no luck in getting people swayed. Even his teammate voted against him.
Flush is helped a lot by his claim. Just... why claim, why claim that power, why target those as scum, why be so focused on Ouro as near confirmed scum as scum...
Sorian is maybe the weakest one, but helped a lot by the claim. Suddenly it makes sense why the hooker kept blocking Ouro instead of looking for the virgins.

I had CrimSoph in my townie list for a long while, but thinking about it nothing really pushed them over the line. The light switch flicked when I started thinking about the chat block.
You referring to kitsu's post there? I talk about it on the next page, and I think we brought something up, but I can't check very easily right now.
Being busy and unable to search through her boat is belivable, but it is still kinda weird that she has no recollection. That got me to their votes on D2:
Sorry, busy today and I won't be around for day end.

Vote: Kitsunelaine
Voting with my partner for now.

Vote: Kitsunelaine
They look odd for a team that was so calculating on D1. When Sophia was asked to clarify her reasoning:
Much better! You're learning how to ask follow up questions! :p

I haven't really seen anything that shouts out "major scum" on Fran's part, and his behavior is familiar with what I know of town!Fran from previous games. Dr. Worm likewise hasn't done much to trip my radar after he stopped his early shit posting. As for Kitsunelaine, I really didn't like her earlier read on Fran/Dr Worm, as I noted at the time. I have less of a read on FEP, but my partner felt confident voting there, so I'm voting with my partner. There's also the fact that Kitsune was very defensive on Day 1, which kind of comes tom ind too.
It's devoid of any input from Crimson apart from his vote. That seems like something they'd discuss in their chat and Crimson doesn't explain in the leadup or after his vote why he changed to kitsune.

So that's where I'm at. I haven't actually gone very indepth, but it just clicks for me.
 

Dr. Worm

Banned
Darynin was an easy target, I guess? I kinda expected someone else to bite it. They're not very controversial though.

Were they? Sorian had his beef with them, and I thought there was still some suspicion regarding Darryl's defense of kit and nin potentially bussing at the last minute.
 

Karkador

Banned
I want to add to the situation how incredibly quick Kark posted they were silenced. One could think he wanted to prevent another Scum member to accidently post that they were silenced... Only problem is that Ouro (Town) also claimed silenced very quickly, so I'm not too confident in that theory.

It's kind of a mix of reasons. First, our chat got knocked out, so the reaction to the silencer was happening in real time, as we posted about it soon after the day started.

As for how quick I posted, I did say I was trying to get ahead of Xbro on saying too much about it, because I was trying to protect the PR and not release too much info. But I was too slow.
 

Ty4on

Member
Is there ever a reason to not no lynch here when we've seen no evidence of a multiple death night?

I don't even know at this point. I feel like by the last day end I scum read far more boats than can be scum.


If town need not worry about it why swoop in with the correction?

...find town...

...have faith in the poe...

...believe in your townreads...

...confidence is an illusion, doubt is good...
 

Xbro

Member
Xbro, you should share your theory as to our role now that we've claimed

At the time I thought you guys were the silencers. Reasons were your fishing for any information you could get about the role, like if it roleblocked or not.


-----

So I looked over the day end that I missed and I couldn't really find anything that really led to a huge train on Kark and me. I'd rather get any explanations out now rather than later.
 

Trigger

Member
Were they? Sorian had his beef with them, and I thought there was still some suspicion regarding Darryl's defense of kit and nin potentially bussing at the last minute.

I'll go look back at the previous day, but I don't think that amounted to much. I never got the feeling they were going to be lynched.
 

Sophia

Member
Being busy and unable to search through her boat is belivable, but it is still kinda weird that she has no recollection.

That's because there are nearly 20 pages of discussion in our boat, and at time you asked me I was two hours away from my computer doing other stuff in real life that I had planned out weeks in advance. ¯\_(&#12484;)_/¯

For the record, now that I am at home and can easily look up the conversation: we talked about Kitsu on the 9th. There's some mention by Crimson about Kitsu feeling like the obvious lynch for that day, me mentioning that I did not get a good gut feeling from Kitsu's reads, Crimson noting that the conversation doesn't feel active, and how it seems hung up on Kitsu vs Fran. It leads into the loose town-to-scum rankings that Crimson that I mentioned.
 

Xbro

Member
lol you guys

Anyhow I looked over the start of D2 and it's interesting:

I don't see much to say here. When I refer to Day 2, I mean the phase that is Day 2 and Night 2, Kark pointing that out made me realize that Gafia has a strict separation of them.
 

Ty4on

Member
Ty, was there a reason you chose the beginning of d2 to read?
It seemed like a pretty obvious place to look for evidence of my theory that scum Xkark was hit by the silencer.

The bigger question is why I still haven't reread all of D2 lol
(I'm lazy >.>)
The silencer PR
Oh right, that's the thing too.

On D2 you were weirdly focused on protecting the silencer as if you knew they were probably town. As a target you kinda make sense for a town PR, bit it still seems really weird to assume they were town and hope they hit scum as if that is really painful for scum.

Anyhow, gonna leave my phone charging while I go eating somewhere else so I'll go offline for a short while. Long while maybe, I don't eat that fast.
 

Ty4on

Member
That's because there are nearly 20 pages of discussion in our boat, and at time you asked me I was two hours away from my computer doing other stuff in real life that I had planned out weeks in advance. ¯_(&#12484;)_/¯

For the record, now that I am at home and can easily look up the conversation: we talked about Kitsu on the 9th. There's some mention by Crimson about Kitsu feeling like the obvious lynch for that day, me mentioning that I did not get a good gut feeling from Kitsu's reads, Crimson noting that the conversation doesn't feel active, and how it seems hung up on Kitsu vs Fran. It leads into the loose town-to-scum rankings that Crimson that I mentioned.
Great we're getting it now at least &#128077;

I'll look over it when I'm done eating
 
Also, i hate to go back to this topic again (partly because it already contributed to a mislynch), but can we go back to FEP's "slip" again for a second?

You can't have it both ways man. Either it never happens or it does. Just because I gave the obvious example doesn't mean you can hand wave it away because it likely isn't happening here. You use a lot of odd wording here though. What mislynch? Why do you sound sure of outcomes? And what's up with that vote?

To the last point though, you realize when I pressure people into making choices that has nothing to do with a past meta. I'm looking at trends within the current game. I love meta but the individual meta, not whatever aggregate sterile data you are trying to push.
What both ways? I said from the start it wasn't impossible. But in over a year in this community with something like 9 games, I've found that it never did. I've played scum twice and i know the feeling. It is paranoid. We actively tried not to leave trails. We say to play like town but that's all you can do. Play like town. Not play town. There are pretty clear tends into how scum act. It's in their best interest. Scum stacking can make sense in this game... with partners. A million excuses for partners to stack. And it helps stacka vote rather nicely. But different pairs stacking early game, early vote? No, the odds are incredibly low. So reading two votes stacked on a team right now as both scum is pretty ridiculous.

And I'll assume you're asking about the ouro vote. It's 1am here and i have shit to do in the morning. Not staying up until 4 for endgame. But of course there votes can change in the next few hours. Last few minutes i would of course toss ouro under the bus to save my team. But no need. I have enough time to accuse you of either being scum or just exhibiting scummy negligence to how the game plays. You can talk about individual meta but your arguments against ouro are the same as anyone else's. Your arguments against kits are the same as anyone else's. You ignore the unique elements that actually define the social way scum act as a team. You're full of shit. You're either blindly and wildly wrong like we all sometimes are. Or you're full of shit. But I've seen your wildly wrong before and it was a thoughtful wrong. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed you're phoning this game in. There's no though. You're wildly wrong but you're not really trying, so i say you're full of shit. And more, you're willfully full of shit. Once more

Vote: Sorian

I'm sure for the first time this game. Come what may, I'm going to bed.

How do you view Ouro vs kingkitty?
Ouro is better in the last few hours, but still kind of passive and nonchalant. I've liked Kitty today, as I've said at least one before, including the off-the-cuff reads I did for natiko (i think).

Sorian basically cleared them though. Pure scum with scum written all over him. And let's not pretend fat4all was doing anything magical before he left. Sawneeks has been hustling as the replacement but then she would need to. If town can pull this off, i guess Dr. Fran would need the scrutiny i thought i was going to give them today in reaction to worm and muffin.

We now know that Ouro is Town and FEP is Scum. I think we should ask the following questions:

1. Was this phrasing an accident? Is Scum FEP so nervous he is "throwing people under the bus" that aren't even on his team? Or does he know he's going to get lynched and wants to set up a chainlynch? How does the fact that he is the first person to point out the slip factor into the answer?

2. If the answer to the above is "it was on purpose", the next question is: Does FEP strike us like a player that would come up with such a great deception?

3. If the answer to the second question is "no", then this means a) that Kark is not Scum because then the Scum chat would have been blocked and b) that somebody with a love for malicious deception is in the Scum team.


I have no idea what's the answer to 1. I would tend to "no" for 2. And the third questions is also quite interesting: the people I would think are most likely to plan something like this are Darryl (Town) and Karkador (which doesn't work because a)).


What's your opinion on all this?
 

Karkador

Banned
On D2 you were weirdly focused on protecting the silencer as if you knew they were probably town. As a target you kinda make sense for a town PR, bit it still seems really weird to assume they were town and hope they hit scum as if that is really painful for scum.

A town PR targeting us N1 wasn't a bad assumption to make based on how scummy we were acting D1, but I did treat it as little else than an assumption.
 
First post on page 4 of our chat, honey. My notes not only have charming words but sometimes even information in them ;)

I'm just so dazzled by your dazzling dazzlingness, darling!

(also was on mobile and prepping for class and OG is terrible on my phone but I knew you'd know!)
 

Ty4on

Member
That's because there are nearly 20 pages of discussion in our boat, and at time you asked me I was two hours away from my computer doing other stuff in real life that I had planned out weeks in advance. ¯\_(&#12484;)_/¯

For the record, now that I am at home and can easily look up the conversation: we talked about Kitsu on the 9th. There's some mention by Crimson about Kitsu feeling like the obvious lynch for that day, me mentioning that I did not get a good gut feeling from Kitsu's reads, Crimson noting that the conversation doesn't feel active, and how it seems hung up on Kitsu vs Fran. It leads into the loose town-to-scum rankings that Crimson that I mentioned.

Right, I didn't include this post :/
He was scum-reading those two in his posts in lovers chat. He actually had a "most town to least town" ranking he was going through, but admitted he wasn't super confident in at the time. They were pretty low.

I actually wanted more of his opinion on FEP, but unfortunately he appears to have already been long gone by the time I woke up. Alas...
If I may ask, who were below FEP?
 

Ty4on

Member
What's your opinion on all this?

My immediate thought is that there isn't a whole lot to it. The most likely scenario seems to be that he used "throw under the bus" to simply mean voting for self preservation with no intent of looking like a slip and then noticed after the fact.

When thinking about intent it feels very WIFOMy. Like the more I think about it the less I make of it if that makes sense.
 

Sophia

Member
Also I had no idea how to answer your first question there Royal, but Ty4on basically put words to what I was thinking of x_X;
 
Also, i hate to go back to this topic again (partly because it already contributed to a mislynch), but can we go back to FEP's "slip" again for a second?



We now know that Ouro is Town and FEP is Scum. I think we should ask the following questions:

1. Was this phrasing an accident? Is Scum FEP so nervous he is "throwing people under the bus" that aren't even on his team? Or does he know he's going to get lynched and wants to set up a chainlynch? How does the fact that he is the first person to point out the slip factor into the answer?

2. If the answer to the above is "it was on purpose", the next question is: Does FEP strike us like a player that would come up with such a great deception?

3. If the answer to the second question is "no", then this means a) that Kark is not Scum because then the Scum chat would have been blocked and b) that somebody with a love for malicious deception is in the Scum team.


I have no idea what's the answer to 1. I would tend to "no" for 2. And the third questions is also quite interesting: the people I would think are most likely to plan something like this are Darryl (Town) and Karkador (which doesn't work because a)).


What's your opinion on all this?


Absolutely great questions here
 

Burbeting

Banned
WHOOPSY DOODLES D:

2qNqF2Y.png
 
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