The people with that sort of attitude are complete imbeciles.
And there are a lot of those around it seems.
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Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite |OT| Marvel vs. Capcom: 4 Female Characters
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
The people with that sort of attitude are complete imbeciles.
And there are a lot of those around it seems.
Voting with your wallet is also a thing.
ButteryPie
Member
I really hope that this MVCI fiasco encourages Capcom/Marvel/Disney to not be incompetently and tone deaf in the next game as opposed to just leaving the franchise to die.
shaowebb
Member
Releasing after xmas is a deadzone of worn out wallets, a few months later is generally AAA launches and small titles only. Early fall sells better than summer and they were not delaying till next fall, taking the summer lull revenue hit, competing with AAA spring or the first of the year dead zone. Dragonball announcement or no they were launching this fall for the holiday quarter boost. The game needed the delay but they couldnt afford it and it is what it is now...reflecting the rush and the budget. Fun as fuck but folks can tell at a glance what it is and its hurting it knowing its a budget developed title that only core audience sales will support.
it absolutely is a thing, but is not the thing we are talking about. It wont make them magically make the next game better, most liekly they simply wont make the next game.
For one thing, I said I wanted it to fail "to some extent"... The some extent is me indicating that I didn't want it to necessarily bomb, I just didn't want them to get a huge win out of it. That second part is really important. It provides some context.
Truth is, it isn't going to send the right message to them if the game is a huge, indomitable success. It just doesn't.
Okay, man. I just don't think you are going to see improvement if a company is rewarded for cutting corners. That isn't how that type of things usually works.
I'm genuinely sorry that the game you really like didn't do so hot. I mean that. I have been emotionally invested in many games that haven't sold well. It hurts. However, my position isn't an illogical one. I don't want Capcom to fail. I don't want their workers to suffer. I consider myself a HUGE Capcom fan, but that is why I want to see them right the ship. I don't think that happens if the games they cut corners on are huge successes.
If MvCI support ends it'll be in a couple of years. Capcom's contract with Marvel for MvC3 appeared to be a 3-year contract (going by MvC3's delisting happening in late 2013). With MvCI being advertised as an ongoing product I'd imagine the official support would last at least 3 years. If anything 2020 or 2021 (adding in an extra year) would be its last year.
Yeah and releasing at this time also lets them capitalize off a season pass for this year as well.
The issues in MVCI wouldn't have been fixed over the holidays anyway, the delay would have needed to be significant for them to address the issues people have with the game.
And if people just buy the game blindly then they would just make more of the same instead of listening to complaints.
So what do you do as a consumer?
Buy a product you have no passion for out of obligation because "It's mahvel baby." and send the message that the current state is ok?
Or vote with your wallet, try to send the message that "This is not ok" but instead end up killing what you once loved because devs take it as "The public isn't interested anymore"?
It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I bought the game FWIW, even though I wish I didn't. I shitpost a lot about SFV but I bought the game plus both seasons on both PC and PS4. I want to support my favorite genre, but sometimes I feel like I'm being taken granted for.
So is there any point to Dante's Bold Move now? I guess it could be useful for getting you into the air at a weird angle quickly.
Man....that's really sad to hear about the game's sales in the UK. I hope it does better here in the US, and that the word of mouth helps stretch it's legs for a long period. MvC series usually has great legs. Such a shame though.
Man....that's really sad to hear about the game's sales in the UK. I hope it does better here in the US, and that the word of mouth helps stretch it's legs for a long period. MvC series usually has great legs. Such a shame though.
Stone Ocean
Member
"Next game"
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You can't do hokey stuff if your visuals are distracting people. Capcom could tell the most serious well written story in Infinite but if with those visuals no one would care.
Marvel is putting all their bets on Spider-Man. This was from the looks of it a small project for them. Marvel probably has realistic projections on how fighting games sell.
like badwolf said, you dont buy it. Just dont do it thinking it will send some sort of "you better make it better next time you silly gooses". If you dont buy a product, the message it sends is you dont want that product.
Also there is a big difference between not buying a game, and wanting it to fail, is there not?
That tends to happen when you give us a subpar roster, especially with the laughingly low amount of female characters at launch.
It's a shame, because the gameplay itself is top notch but because of what I mentioned above a good amount of people probably won't even give it the time of day. lol
Remember Turok and Split/Second? Disney jumps ship on gaming very easily and quickly. They tend to try again only to run off immediately... It's funny in a sad way. As for Capcom, they're not a lot better in the sense that they seemed to think people would be fine with a replacement Dante in DmC, buying portions of the campaigns in Asura's Wrath and RE: ORC separately, and leaving arcade mode out of SFV, among other major blunders... yet they can't help but make more. MvC Infinite will certainly get a cheap rerelease in a year to help cover losses before the series is shelved.
If Capcom simply looked at sales then you would be correct. However, they will surely look at the fan reaction in tandem with the sales.
If a game reviews brilliantly, and the fan reaction is positive, and it doesn't sell, then they will probably take that as "this game has no potential for sales".
However, when it is received poorly, and sells poorly, they will surely understand that execution was part of the problem. Especially if their competition sells better than them.
These companies are looking to succeed. They are going to use more then one metric when trying to ascertain why their game wasn't a huge success.
I'm sorry you are so bitter about this, but you aren't being logical. What you are implying is that there is simply no recourse for the consumer, which is horse shit. The consumer has a very, very loud voice. Companies that succeed learn to listen to it.
Right. A lot of peeps have been running a hate-campaign for the game for the better part of the year. They aren't "just voting with their wallets", they're encouraging others to actively shit on it consistently. Still going. It's just mindless trolling.
As hyped as last night's finals were, I'm amazed that twitch chat was actually turned around, if only for a moment. I'm sure they will be back to trolling about Chun Li and Dante faces next time they see the game.
Huw_Dawson
Member
MvCI cratering in the UK this bad is likely to have an impact on how large the competitive scene is here. Not looking good so far.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Marvel/Disney have no stakes in this. Spider-Man is their golden boy.
Jawmuncher
Member
The only problem with such a campaign is that if the game was strong enough overall. No such campaign would affect it. The fact that the game for many was so on the fence and that was all it took for many to be out speaks more on the product itself.
Right. A lot of peeps have been running a hate-campaign for the game for the better part of the year. They aren't "just voting with their wallets", they're encouraging others to actively shit on it consistently. Still going. It's just mindless trolling.
As hyped as last night's finals were, I'm amazed that twitch chat was actually turned around, if only for a moment. I'm sure they will be back to trolling about Chun Li and Dante faces next time they see the game.
Criticism is not always trolling. In fact, it can be incredibly constructive. The people that were hating on this game wanted it to be great. They still want it to be great. They just weren't willing to settle for something that was so obviously inadequate.
Chronospherics
Member
Given what's looking like abysmal sales (not that surprising considering the pre and post-release reception, plus little marketing for the game), what are Capcom actually supposed to do with this?
Considering the heft of the Marvel licensing, it's likely that any support for the game still contributes a net loss. It doesn't matter if a high percentage of the community is buying DLC, when that community is terribly small.
With this in mind, what do they do? Abandon ship? It seems abandoning the game, SFxT style is a likely option, but another would be to repackage it, and sell it with a different title, a different artstyle, and a marketing push. I doubt the latter of which would make a huge difference.
I guess a wild option would be to transition to free to play. Dead or Alive has had a lot of success with that model and I think a lot of players would be willing to try this game, given the opportunity, however it seems that without the content to sell (outfits, colours, taunts etc) it'd be challenging to make that profitable without locking out existing content.
I'm going to pick this game up next month, as I think it looks like a lot of fun. But it's just one for the collection. I'm not expecting much in terms of support. I don't think any of the above options that Capcom have will lead to a favourable outcome, outside of a full rebranding, which they likely can't justify due to how this game is performing. I would worry that they see any money or time invested into MVCI as money being pushed onto a sinking ship.
Considering the heft of the Marvel licensing, it's likely that any support for the game still contributes a net loss. It doesn't matter if a high percentage of the community is buying DLC, when that community is terribly small.
With this in mind, what do they do? Abandon ship? It seems abandoning the game, SFxT style is a likely option, but another would be to repackage it, and sell it with a different title, a different artstyle, and a marketing push. I doubt the latter of which would make a huge difference.
I guess a wild option would be to transition to free to play. Dead or Alive has had a lot of success with that model and I think a lot of players would be willing to try this game, given the opportunity, however it seems that without the content to sell (outfits, colours, taunts etc) it'd be challenging to make that profitable without locking out existing content.
I'm going to pick this game up next month, as I think it looks like a lot of fun. But it's just one for the collection. I'm not expecting much in terms of support. I don't think any of the above options that Capcom have will lead to a favourable outcome, outside of a full rebranding, which they likely can't justify due to how this game is performing. I would worry that they see any money or time invested into MVCI as money being pushed onto a sinking ship.
Some did (and do), absolutely. I'm not sure the bold is justified as a general statement.
Do mobile tie-in games help boost sales and buzz around their console counterparts or are they benefiting from the brand in reverse?
Consider that Injustice, MKX ans Injustuce 2 all have mobile games that launched before the real games. All three of those games and their tie-ins performed exceptionally.
I don't think it's just NetherRealms. NRS doesn't have near as much clout with the FGC as Capcom does and Marvel and Street Fighter are just as popular and hot as Mortal Kombat and DC.
Releasing after X-Mas is fine, Sony has had a lot of success with February releases and last year we saw Resident Evil do just fine in January. People get money and gift cards for the holidays and if they know a game is coming out they'll save for it.
Consider that Injustice, MKX ans Injustuce 2 all have mobile games that launched before the real games. All three of those games and their tie-ins performed exceptionally.
I don't think it's just NetherRealms. NRS doesn't have near as much clout with the FGC as Capcom does and Marvel and Street Fighter are just as popular and hot as Mortal Kombat and DC.
Releasing after X-Mas is fine, Sony has had a lot of success with February releases and last year we saw Resident Evil do just fine in January. People get money and gift cards for the holidays and if they know a game is coming out they'll save for it.
BronsonLee
Member
Marvel Games did a hard reboot like 2-3 years ago to cut down on all the licensed garbage. They're all in on varied quality games vs games that sell incredibly well, they have the mobile stuff for that.
Spider-Man is the big project, but MvCI should do just fine.
Also Rhaknar stole my car
Spider-Man is the big project, but MvCI should do just fine.
Also Rhaknar stole my car
Jawmuncher
Member
That's a good point too. I'm hugely critical on the game. There's a lot of things that could be better. Yet here I am still wanting it to succeed and enjoying my time playing it.
And an important factor to consider is the much higher risk with this game because of licensing. Disney will certainly require a royalty from whatever Capcom releases. With SFV, it's all proprietary content, so the margins are much safer. Lastly, SFV actually had an okay launch before its sales tanked shortly thereafter. This is looking DOA.
If the game was strong enough? That sure helped Lawbreakers.
lucebuce12
Member
He tossed bricks through my windows and the bricks had a message attached that read "MAHVEL WILL LIVE ON!"
Yeah... that is fair. Some people were just out for blood. Same thing happened with SFV. However, I think a lot of people felt that way. I know a lot of people that LOVE this series and were super bummed out about this whole mess. The people that seemed to criticize the most (that I know anecdotally) were the ones that loved the previous games.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Capcom isn't gonna abandon it like SFxT. When pros like FChamp are already investing 5 years of their career into this game there's no turning back. Capcom has a game that almost everyone universally agrees plays like a dream. We just gotta work everything around it.
Stone Ocean
Member
I honestly don't know. It all depends on how much this actually sells, because we don't really have an idea of what Capcom would do. Even their most hated flagship fighting games in recent times still broke 1.5 million copies.
Jawmuncher
Member
There's less competition in the fighting genre than there is in the FPS genre. At least when the capcom name carried a bit more weight than it does now.
Lawbreakers was always destined to fail if you ask me. Especially when the beta feedback was never more than a shrug. It never had much word of mouth going for it.
Especially when compared to other shooters like Overwatch. Even MVC started getting good word of mouth at least for the gameplay itself.
That's your opinion. Blazblue has a story mode so good it has an Anime based on it. I love Injustice stories as well but BB/GGXrd are great in their own way. Not to mention their Arcade modes actually interact with the storymodes (each character has a prologue). I disagree with this post 100%
Everyone hates the re-releases but I am of the opinion that with the new "games as service" model is makes sense to do "seasons" with their own visual themes and motifs.
My point of reference being Alpha 2 > Alpha 3, SF3 > 3rd Strike, MvC3 > UMvC3, SFIV > SSFIV.
Basically, every season is branded in a way the refreshes the product from the season before. Some new menu key art, rebalance, a few new features, maybe a new character select screen. This is a FREE update for everyone who owns the game.
But, you also release the latest version of the game with the previous seasons of DLC chars and some costume DLC on-disc with a new marketing push and a catchy subtitle, new box-art that reflects the look of the current season's motifs.
Do this every 12-18 months until the next numbered entry is poised to release.
All of that is D tier comic book writer quality.
My point of reference being Alpha 2 > Alpha 3, SF3 > 3rd Strike, MvC3 > UMvC3, SFIV > SSFIV.
Basically, every season is branded in a way the refreshes the product from the season before. Some new menu key art, rebalance, a few new features, maybe a new character select screen. This is a FREE update for everyone who owns the game.
But, you also release the latest version of the game with the previous seasons of DLC chars and some costume DLC on-disc with a new marketing push and a catchy subtitle, new box-art that reflects the look of the current season's motifs.
Do this every 12-18 months until the next numbered entry is poised to release.
All of that is D tier comic book writer quality.
Time for Fchamp to learn DBFZ, imo.
What? I disagree completely. The shitposting was way too much for virtually every game, unless your name is Call of Duty. MvC is relatively niche. We live in a world when not even the Street Fighter brand has much strength anymore.
Some of them, I'm sure.
A minimal proportion of them. Hating on Marvel simply took a life of its own. After a certain point the negativity became insurmountable. Effing Pewdiepie had Dante as his avatar on Twitter and YouTube. I'm seeing people in the two sales thread attempting to make the argument that the stages and models of Tatsunoko Vs Capcom look better. I bet they'd also argue in favor of Marvel 2's recycled sprites. How do you respond to that, exactly?
The quality of the story is my opinion, but production values isn't. Xrd has mostly floating talking heads and barely animating cut-scenes.
To be fair... People forget that, after the update, Street Fighter X Tekken was well liked by pros as well. Unfortunately, it was never able to get past the incredible stigma that surrounded that game.
MvC:I has had a better reception from the hardcore fans, but it will also very likely sell fewer copies overall.
Yeah, I agree. In the age of social media and review aggregation, bad sales don't happen in a vacuum. There are a wealth of places to gauge customer feedback for companies to know why a game failed. If a game fails to meet sales expectations, it's not going to be a total mystery why. If Capcom doesnt get why people are not buying the game, they're simply not trying to know why. If they decide to stop making fighting games based on sales alone, they're being willfully ignorant. They can and should learn the proper lesson from a game failing.
Dark_3nergy
Member
I hear this too, honestly, it will not make things better. I am of the belief Marvel Entertainment is the problem here, not necessarily Capcom.
Capcom can only do so much with this IP, it's a joint business effort. If big-pappa Marvel foots the bill, then says " Do it our way " what is Capcom to do?
Jawmuncher
Member
I mean if you take away the odd faces, the graphics, and the roster. There wouldn't have even been any fuel for the fire. The switch from 3v3 to 2v2 woudln't affect purchases as much as those other things. Both this and SFV just needed to be stronger out of the gate. At this point it's the main factor Capcom is missing with finding major success if you ask me.
LawBreakers is also in a more popular genre though, but I think people are just being more choosy these days. It's all or nothing, so you get things like Overwatch and PUBG setting the world on fire while Battleborn and LawBreakers don't even really get started before dying.
Fighting games are definitely niche again. SFIV and UMvC3 were this era's peak moment. People just don't care as much in general, and they're less forgiving as a result. A better roster and good marketing would've helped Infinite, but it needed a miracle. Part of what made SFIV and MvC3 special was the huge time gap where those franchises were basically absent from the public eye. It was a perfect but brief storm.
While NRS has been consistently successful, that's mostly on the backs of casual fans that simply enjoy MK or DC as properties, rather than a case of specifically wanting fighting games. I think Dragon Ball FighterZ will do well by bridging the gap like SFIV did, but probably create a lot of false hope for the future of the genre.
I wouldn't say a minimum proportion is accurate, but I was probably wrong when I said "most".
It really sucks when the mob becomes part of the discussion, and it is all memes. Absolutely that blows, man. I used to go to war with people spreading misinformation about SFV's DLC system. However, ultimately, ignorance won. That is why we will never see such a fan-friendly system in place ever again.
How do you respond to that kind of criticism? Unfortunately, it isn't easy. They needed to dramatically fix the graphics, and improve the roster. They needed to delay the game for half a year at the very least. It may not have even been possible... We don't know what deals they had lined up behind the scenes.
I understand your immense frustration. I just hope that this leads to a better future approach when it comes to these games... It needs to.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Marvel doesn't foot the bill. Capcom pays them a licensing fee and Marvel probably adds some guidelines along with it.