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[jarrod]

if neo geo had come out eight years after pc-engine, it wouldn't have been neo geo. it'd would've been crap.

PC Engine was an 8bit platform, it was actually positioned against the Famicom mainly... Wii's more like the PC Engine of it's generation too actually. :lol

 

[drohne]

i'm aware that pce is 8 bit, but it's still much closer to megadrive than it is to famicom. i don't see that wii is comparable to pce either.

 

[Deku]

if neo geo had come out eight years after pc-engine, it wouldn't have been neo geo. it'd would've been crap.

Jesus drohne. A super computer without software is also crap. Oh yeah software. I wonder why it's been missing in all this discussion.

Since you can't defend your convoluted sense of value, you're now just blabbering on and what you think is the appropriate console.

In a partisan setting, I can understand the need to point out what you think are your opponent's weak points, (for massive damage), but I think that window closed for you on page 1.

 

[drohne]

if you object to my reckonings of value, you should object equally to jarrod's, or to stevie p's, or to anyone who's attempted (speciously) to make the wii sound like $250 hardware.

...that is if you're objecting to my reckonings of value and not my attitude towards nintendo. and your tone pretty well gives you away.

 

[StevieP]

Wii being the "next big thing" may still happen. It was added to another one of those "hot item" lists:

http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20061004-000728-1044

Let me say it again:
*tear tear* Nintendo isn't taking a loss on the hardware, therefore the system will suck! *tears*

My HTPC puts out better visuals than the 360 does, and I've got wireless rumble pads for it as well - AND it can do 1080p through DVI. Does the Wii still have a place in my living room? It sure does, as long as the entertaining software is there. Just like Guitar Hero and Singstar, and Donky Konga, and all the other games that are FUN to play, I will be looking forward to being further immersed in the game. Would Guitar Hero have been anywhere near as much fun without the guitar? Hell no. The same can be said for many of the games slated for Wii. XBox costs over its listed price to make, and it's not as powerful as the Wii. It is simply $200-level hardware being sold for $250 with a pack-in game. If you can't see that, then your perception of value is exclusive to loss-leader approaches like MS and Sony.

 

[Oblivion]

Actually, the RAM setup's been basically rehauled... the slow ass 24MB A-RAM is now 64MB GDDR3, and is accessable by all the chips (so it's useful for more than just texture caching and audio) and it still retains GameCube's excellent main RAM setup (super fast 24MB 1T-SRAM plus 3MB embedded DRAM on the GPU). Basically it's like having the GC and Xbox RAM solutions combined in one machine. Memory wise, Wii is probably more generously positioned for it's CPU/GPU than any other console in history.

But no, the system at large isn't anywhere near ture nexygen platforms like PS3 or 360 (it's even a slight step down from "halfway" arcade solutions like LindBergh and Type-X2)... but there's more simply "doubled" RAM here.

[/RAM nazi]

Wasn't the GDDR3 thing a rumor?

 

[plagiarize]

if you object to my reckonings of value, you should object equally to jarrod's, or to stevie p's, or to anyone who's attempted (speciously) to make the wii sound like $250 hardware.

...that is if you're objecting to my reckonings of value and not my attitude towards nintendo. and your tone pretty well gives you away.

drohne, how much is the hardware in a $400 ipod worth? do you know how much the hardware in the wii is worth or are you guestimating?

is it really relavent?

your reckonings of value are fine, for you. you can't pass them off as fact though.

 

[SuperPac]

I guess I just don't think it's bad that there are different levels of console for different types of consumers. There are people who like games and might want something "new" but don't want to pay $300-600 to start and deal with $60 games. Maybe those people will buy a Wii and maybe they won't, but at least the market is being split in a different way this time. It's certainly making this holiday season a lot more interesting than it otherwise would be.

 

[Deku]

if you object to my reckonings of value, you should object equally to jarrod's, or to stevie p's, or to anyone who's attempted (speciously) to make the wii sound like $250 hardware.

...that is if you're objecting to my reckonings of value and not my attitude towards nintendo. and your tone pretty well gives you away.

Nice attempt to yet again shift the discussion. So um, your basically admitting fault, but your new excuse is, well, some other posters are doing it(?!) What's next? "gamefaq poster can troll like there's no tomorrow, so I'll keep on trolling anything I dislike"

What kind of defense force are you? Logic apparently is irrelvant, only winning.

Heck it doesn't matter what I think about your atittude towards Nintendo, I think your atittude towards disucssing anything is pretty repugnant. O-A posters look intelligent compared to you, at least they are honest about their racist/biased opinions.

 

[drohne]

the ipod's already come up. pages ago. i'm sure everything has come up by this point.

there are three types of message board posters: posters who can disagree with you, posters who can't disagree with you without calling you names, and posters who can't call you names without also sneaking up and humping your leg. deku is an example of the third type.

 

[plagiarize]

the ipod's already come up. pages ago. i'm sure everything has come up by this point.

i know.

since you know how much the Wii hardware is valued at i figured you could tell me how much the ipod hardware is valued at.

 

[jarrod]

i'm aware that pce is 8 bit, but it's still much closer to megadrive than it is to famicom. i don't see that wii is comparable to pce either.

You alone refusing to see the historical marketplace doesn't negate it's existance. PCE is actually very much like Wii in the hardware sense, it was a super charged, comparably cheap "last gen" machine released at the dawn of 16bit, aimed more at the low end Famicom market though. What we got with TG16's positioning (up directly against Genesis) was quite a bit different.

 

[soul creator]

drohne, how much is the hardware in a $400 ipod worth? do you know how much the hardware in the wii is worth or are you guestimating?

is it really relavent?

your reckonings of value are fine, for you. you can't pass them off as fact though.

this discussion is all over the place :lol

the way I viewed this whole thing was that drohne was *specifically* referring to the physical hardware inside. And since the hardware is closer to Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 than it is 360/PS3, and the extra features like WiFi, DVD drive, 512MB SD card etc. aren't huge costs, then from that standpoint it's not a stretch to maybe consider it overpriced.

BUT, this is an entirely separate issue from whether someone thinks the Wii is $250 worth of "fun". It may very well be worth it for a lot of people. And that's perfectly fine. But it would be worth $250 despite the hardware inside, not because of it.

And yes, depending on which model you're referring to, I would consider a lot of iPods overpriced, considering you can find MP3/Video players with similar or better features for the same price or cheaper. Now of course, there are other things to take into account that the iPod may be advantageous in, but if you're talking from a strict hardware standpoint for the sake of discussion (which is what I think drohne, and myself were originally referring to), yeah, it's overpriced.

 

[plagiarize]

this discussion is all over the place :lol

the way I viewed this whole thing was that drohne was *specifically* referring to the physical hardware inside. And since the hardware is closer to Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 than it is 360/PS3, and the extra features like WiFi, DVD drive, 512MB SD card etc. aren't huge costs, then from that standpoint it's not a stretch to maybe consider it overpriced.

BUT, this is an entirely separate issue from whether someone thinks the Wii is $250 worth of "fun". It may very well be worth it for a lot of people. And that's perfectly fine. But it would be worth $250 despite the hardware inside, not because of it.

And yes, depending on which model you're referring to, I would consider a lot of iPods overpriced, considering you can find MP3/Video players with similar or better features for the same price or cheaper. Now of course, there are other things to take into account that the iPod may be advantageous in, but if you're talking from a strict hardware standpoint for the sake of discussion (which is what I think drohne, and myself were originally referring to), yeah, it's overpriced.

i viewed it the same way.

drohne seemed to be acting like he knew the real cost of the hardware to nintendo and i was wondering if his insider info went into other companies, and how he felt about their products. i mean Sony have the audacity to sell TVs for more than it costs Sony to build them. does he think they're over priced too?

 

[SuperPac]

i know.

since you know how much the Wii hardware is valued at i figured you could tell me how much the ipod hardware is valued at.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=15883

New shuffle $30 ($79 retail)
8 GB Nano $130 ($249 retail)
4 GB Nano $90 ($199 retail)
2 GB Nano $70 ($149 retail)

I don't think consumers have cried foul at any of these, despite the pretty high margins.

 

[AniHawk]

yes, it is a stupid remark. and guess why? because more power and new generations do not only mean the graphics get better. more power opens new possibilities for gameplay too (bigger and more realistic worlds, physics, AI, destructible and deformable geometry etc.).

The Wii offers a new way to control games but it doesnt allow new concepts based on increased power. When I look at games like Motor Storm or Resistance the graphics they sure appeal to the graphics whore in me. But what makes them more interesting than just better textures and higher poly counts is how real they feel. Stuff and people behave like they should.

This gen hardware made games like GTA possible, which is that fascinating because the world feels so real. And it wil feel much more real next gen. It might be an evolutinary change more than a revolutionary, but it will show and it will make those older games feel strange.

I wasn't arguing against the idea that more power is good. I was simply commenting on the ridiculous generalization that if you don't think that graphics are all that matter in games, then you should play the NES.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

And paying $500 for a Blu-Ray player with a game console attached to it is? Consoles are more than specs alone.

I don't think its a hot deal at all, which is precisely why I have no intentions of getting a PS3 for a long time.

We won't know for sure until it's out and more people have tried it, but whatever. Non-gamers play Zuma on their cell phones, they play it on their computer, etc. Those are people that don't necessarily care about ZOMG graphics, they care about fun. IF Nintendo is able to deliver something they're interested in, then we'll see just how many people will bite. Even if it attracts a "few million more," it's growing the market more than efforts of Microsoft or Sony.

Possibly but those who bought 120-140 million machines are not going anywhere. Nintendo just realized that they will never become top dog of gaming again so they are trying a new avenue. I have no objections of a business trying things. Risk is how money is made. Yet a lot of these people own a cell phone for calling friends. A game is a bonus. They have a computer for school projects, e-mail, internet, etc. A game is a bonus. Wii is a games only machine. Cell phone games are fringe benefits. Quite a difference.

I don't get why people think I'm assuming that Nintendo will fail with this strategy. They will get a few million more gamers but I doubt it will come close to toppling the PS3 or the Xbox 360. A lot of people are asserting that the Wii will sell millions of units a month for no reason other than because the DS is doing well.

Probably. But who'da thunk people would want a handheld that has two screens and a touchpad? I never thought that'd be useful to my gaming either. Yet it is. And you can't really estimate how many people are in the "non-gamer" audience because a new console has never been made with that audience in mind.

Yes but how many of those people are GBA, GBC, or GB adopters? The portable machine offers gaming anywhere. Wii does not offer this opportunity. Which is why I think DS to Wii comparisons are asinine. Both are two radically different machines.

If Wii is so expensive, so weak, and has a silly controller that will become nothing more than a gimmick, why are non-Nintendo fans angry at it? Why the hostility?

Who is being hostile towards it?

 

[SuperPac]

Nintendo just realized that they will never become top dog of gaming again so they are trying a new avenue.

I think it was probably more that they realized they aren't able or willing to match Microsoft and Sony in the graphics race (a race which has diminishing returns after a certain point), so instead they're relying entirely on making their new machine revolve around how you play. It was a realization that bringing people something different can be as lucrative as bringing them the same thing they've played before but with better visuals. BTW I don't think Nintendo ever thinks that they will "never" be the top dog again. Their business has been successful, even when they haven't "won" the console race. While the road of Microsoft and Sony's video game business has been bumpy and is full of red and hardware losses, Nintendo's only had ONE unprofitable quarter since they went public, and that was only due to a whack exchange rate.

I have no objections of a business trying things. Risk is how money is made. Yet a lot of these people own a cell phone for calling friends. A game is a bonus. They have a computer for school projects, e-mail, internet, etc. A game is a bonus. Wii is a games only machine. Cell phone games are fringe benefits. Quite a difference.

But they're exposed to games. Perhaps the Wii will successfully tear down the hurdles/problems they had with buying a full machine just to play them. The familiar remote-style controller, the price, the functionality, everything you need coming in one box... it's significantly easier to try a Wii and then say, "OK, I'll buy one, and everything I need is in this box" than it is to explain to a regular Joe how all the Xbox accessories work and what you need.

I don't get why people think I'm assuming that Nintendo will fail with this strategy. They will get a few million more gamers but I doubt it will come close to toppling the PS3 or the Xbox 360.

Anyone who honestly thinks that'll happen in the US is borderline insane. Nintendo stands a chance to do quite well, but anyone thinking Wii will topple PS3 or Xbox 360 is kidding themselves -- at least the way it looks at the moment. But the market can change pretty quickly. In Japan the hardcore gamer market has diminished significantly over the last few years. Who's to say that can't/won't happen here at some point?

 

[Deku]

.
there are three types of message board posters: posters who can disagree with you, posters who can't disagree with you without calling you names, and posters who can't call you names without also sneaking up and humping your leg. deku is an example of the third type.

Only 3? I think there's also the narcissistic asshat who has no concept of what a 'discussion'
actually is and simply trolls the heck out of every thread they enter. And continues
trolling after their initial premise has been discredited.

I've yet to see you say anything constructive. But of course, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and for you to come out as a joke character or some sort of social experiment and claim moral victory.

drohne, lets put aside the personal differences and get back on track.
Tell the board again what value is since you can't see to let it go. Do it with the minimum of adjectives. We don't need you to show off your literary talents.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I think it was probably more that they realized they aren't able or willing to match Microsoft and Sony in the graphics race (a race which has diminishing returns after a certain point), so instead they're relying entirely on making their new machine revolve around how you play. It was a realization that bringing people something different can be as lucrative as bringing them the same thing they've played before but with better visuals. BTW I don't think Nintendo ever thinks that they will "never" be the top dog again. Their business has been successful, even when they haven't "won" the console race. While the road of Microsoft and Sony's video game business has been bumpy and is full of red and hardware losses, Nintendo's only had ONE unprofitable quarter since they went public, and that was only due to a whack exchange rate.



But they're exposed to games. Perhaps the Wii will successfully tear down the hurdles/problems they had with buying a full machine just to play them. The familiar remote-style controller, the price, the functionality, everything you need coming in one box... it's significantly easier to try a Wii and then say, "OK, I'll buy one, and everything I need is in this box" than it is to explain to a regular Joe how all the Xbox accessories work and what you need.



Anyone who honestly thinks that'll happen in the US is borderline insane. Nintendo stands a chance to do quite well, but anyone thinking Wii will topple PS3 or Xbox 360 is kidding themselves -- at least the way it looks at the moment. But the market can change pretty quickly. In Japan the hardcore gamer market has diminished significantly over the last few years. Who's to say that can't/won't happen here at some point?

Why exactly?

 

[jarrod]

Why exactly?

I think as Mr. Pac explained later in the paragraph, it really depends on the market. While in the west it's not looking too likely, Japan's basically poised to get taken wholesale by Wii.

 

[drohne]

drohne, lets put aside the personal differences and get back on track.

no. you'll have to enjoy the rest of your conniption without me. i regret having acknowledged you.

LOOK MA NO ADJECTIVES

Spoiler

the "no" in the sentence fragment "look ma no adjectives" is, on second thought, an adjective modifying the noun "adjectives."

 

[cbrotherson]

I think as Mr. Pac explained later in the paragraph, it really depends on the market. While in the west it's not looking too likely, Japan's basically poised to get taken wholesale by Wii.

I think certain parts of Europe are potentially viable too, to be honest, if Nintendo/Cake does well with the marketing and gets software out on time. Big if, but this is arguably the best chance the company has ever got for doing well in parts of the territory.

 

[SuperPac]

Why exactly?

I said *borderline* insane. Not completely insane. A little insane is that Wii would knock one of those down. That could happen. Completely insane is that Wii would overtake both. I want Wii to do well too but the facts are:

- Americans are graphics whores. We love movies with big special effects. Wii is not the best in that department.
- The PlayStation brand holds a ton of weight in the current market. It would take an eff-up of ridiculously catastrophic proportions (PS3s catching fire in people's homes at Christmastime) to swat Sony from its perch.
- The best-selling games in the US are sports, FPSes and GTA violence-fests and Wii doesn't have much of those.
- Xbox 360 has had a year's head start and has a wide selection of the types of games an American audience has already proven it is very interested in.
- Best Buy and stores like it are really pushing HD tech gear and Wii doesn't really fit into that equation as well as PS3/360.

I still think Wii will do extremely well, but Nintendo is not working from a position of particular strength in the home market at the moment. It could flip, and I hope it does. But the realist in me isn't so sure.

 

[jarrod]

I think certain parts of Europe are potentially viable too, to be honest, if Nintendo/Cake does well with the marketing and gets software out on time. Big if, but this is arguably the best chance the company has ever got for doing well in parts of the territory.

Actually, I could see Wii leading in select EU markets as well (France notably). I'd honestly be surprised if leads in more than a few select western markets though, and USA/UK/Canada seem likely they're definitely out at this point.

Thank goodness I tend to prefer Japanese games.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I said *borderline* insane. Not completely insane. A little insane is that Wii would knock one of those down. That could happen. Completely insane is that Wii would overtake both. I want Wii to do well too but the facts are:

- Americans are graphics whores. We love movies with big special effects. Wii is not the best in that department.
- The PlayStation brand holds a ton of weight in the current market. It would take an eff-up of ridiculously catastrophic proportions (PS3s catching fire in people's homes at Christmastime) to swat Sony from its perch.
- The best-selling games in the US are sports, FPSes and GTA violence-fests and Wii doesn't have much of those.
- Xbox 360 has had a year's head start and has a wide selection of the types of games an American audience has already proven it is very interested in.
- Best Buy and stores like it are really pushing HD tech gear and Wii doesn't really fit into that equation as well as PS3/360.

I still think Wii will do extremely well, but Nintendo is not working from a position of particular strength in the home market at the moment. It could flip, and I hope it does. But the realist in me isn't so sure.

Okay. That all makes perfect sense, and thats exactly what could happen.

The things I think work against that are the price, and availability.

The Wii will lead the PS3 for at the very least 6months, just based on actuall units that are going to be available,(Unless of the course the Wii is a complete bomba) and if the wiimote catches on, it could be a deciding factor.

As for the 360, I honestly cant forcast it. I think worldwide(I know its about the U.S. but hey) the 360 will be last, and thats becuase of Japan where I think the Wii will easily outsell the Gamecube, and in Europe.

The U.S. is fickle, but that price issue this generation could be a massive factor. Last gen it was 100$, this gen its going to be 150-350. Who knows though?

 

[cbrotherson]

Actually, I could see Wii leading in select EU markets as well (France notably). I'd honestly be surprised if leads in more than a few select western markets though, and USA/UK/Canada seem likely they're definitely out at this point.

Thank goodness I tend to prefer Japanese games.

Heh, I know what you mean You decided to go import for def then?

 

[CreatureX3]

I said *borderline* insane. Not completely insane. A little insane is that Wii would knock one of those down. That could happen. Completely insane is that Wii would overtake both. I want Wii to do well too but the facts are:

- Americans are graphics whores. We love movies with big special effects. Wii is not the best in that department.
- The PlayStation brand holds a ton of weight in the current market. It would take an eff-up of ridiculously catastrophic proportions (PS3s catching fire in people's homes at Christmastime) to swat Sony from its perch.
- The best-selling games in the US are sports, FPSes and GTA violence-fests and Wii doesn't have much of those.
- Xbox 360 has had a year's head start and has a wide selection of the types of games an American audience has already proven it is very interested in.
- Best Buy and stores like it are really pushing HD tech gear and Wii doesn't really fit into that equation as well as PS3/360.

I still think Wii will do extremely well, but Nintendo is not working from a position of particular strength in the home market at the moment. It could flip, and I hope it does. But the realist in me isn't so sure.

According to your logic, the PSP should be dominating over the Nintendo DS. We all know how that turned out. :lol

We don't have too much longer until we can see just how successful the Wii will be!

 

[Psychohazard 4]

Wow to me that's pretty shocking.

 

[SuperPac]

The things I think work against that are the price, and availability.

Hey I agree with you. Another factor on the pro side of the argument is that Americans are very price sensitive. Wal-Mart is the #1 retailer because people would rather save a few pennies than get better service. Would that concept translate to Wii sales, I dunno. Would be interesting if it did.

The Wii will lead the PS3 for at the very least 6months, just based on actuall units that are going to be available,(Unless of the course the Wii is a complete bomba) and if the wiimote catches on, it could be a deciding factor.

Yes. If the Wiimote catches on it could turn the tide considerably in Nintendo's favor. We Americans love a good fad (see hula hoop and frisbee).

The U.S. is fickle, but that price issue this generation could be a massive factor. Last gen it was 100$, this gen its going to be 150-350. Who knows though?

Price is a massive, massive factor. But it will only stick if consumers see a value in $250 over what they see in the two systems that are more expensive. Nintendo has to prove that.

 

[Christopher]

Hey I agree with you. Another factor on the pro side of the argument is that Americans are very price sensitive. Wal-Mart is the #1 retailer because people would rather save a few pennies than get better service. Would that concept translate to Wii sales, I dunno. Would be interesting if it did.



Yes. If the Wiimote catches on it could turn the tide considerably in Nintendo's favor. We Americans love a good fad (see hula hoop and frisbee).



Price is a massive, massive factor. But it will only stick if consumers see a value in $250 over what they see in the two systems that are more expensive. Nintendo has to prove that.

*gasp* a good non-pro nintendo post from you, I salute you.

 

[SuperPac]

According to your logic, the PSP should be dominating over the Nintendo DS. We all know how that turned out. :lol

We don't have too much longer until we can see just how successful the Wii will be!

No, because the situation in the portable market is reversed. Nintendo was the dominant force in handhelds, the DS runs legacy software, the market for handhelds is (on the whole) younger and isn't spending crazy $$$ on handhelds, the PSP was too expensive/untested, its purpose too unfocused (is a game/music/movies/photo/whatever machine), and the games released for it do not take portability into full account like the majority of DS titles do.

Anyway let me make this clear before anyone goes off on me. I LOVE WII. I WANT WII TO BE SUCCESSFUL. But I am acknowledging that it has an uphill battle at the moment. It's going to take a targeting marketing plan and getting Wiis in people's hands (and WTF at "Gamestop will be the only stores to have them"). If Nintendo hits on all cylinders and Sony flops around then they might have a shot. But again, Americans being graphics whores...it's too early to call.

 

[StevieP]

No, because the situation in the portable market is reversed. Nintendo was the dominant force in handhelds, the DS runs legacy software, the market for handhelds is (on the whole) younger and isn't spending crazy $$$ on handhelds, the PSP was too expensive/untested, its purpose too unfocused (is a game/music/movies/photo/whatever machine), and the games released for it do not take portability into full account like the majority of DS titles do.

Anyway let me make this clear before anyone goes off on me. I LOVE WII. I WANT WII TO BE SUCCESSFUL. But I am acknowledging that it has an uphill battle at the moment. It's going to take a targeting marketing plan and getting Wiis in people's hands (and WTF at "Gamestop will be the only stores to have them"). If Nintendo hits on all cylinders and Sony flops around then they might have a shot. But again, Americans being graphics whores...it's too early to call.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly. The Wii is the only Nintendo system in the last decade to have a shot at completely eating the market, though it's a huge uphill battle to convince people of this motion control. Japan, that may already be in the bag for them... the Americas, not so much. We just have to see how this pans out, though if I were to hedge my bets, I certainly can't see Microsoft taking number 1 if they can't sell Japan and Europe for shit, and Sony has many years to go before regular joes can afford the PS3... so the Wii certainly does have a chance. Whether they pull it off remains to be seen, but their success doesn't revolve around the fact that the Wii doesn't have the powerful expensive hardware that the competition does.

Personally, I'd rather see decent looking games @ 60fps @ 480p, than really good looking games @ 20 FPS @ 1080p or 30fps @ 720p. And we know that with effort, Wii can pull off "decent looking" (SMG, hell even RE4 x 2). That's all it needs. If the visuals are clean enough, and motion control takes off, we actually have a competition war here, not just a Sony slaughtering like the last 2 gens.

 

[Amir0x]

But what irks me most is that the Nintendo "detractors" as you put them, always describe the Wii as an XBox with a new control pad, when you're getting more than that. Amir0x, I know you don't like Wii Sports, but you have to recognize that it's worth $30. The controller, if it succeeds, will be the biggest step in videogame control since analog sticks - and that took a lot of R&D, which is also reflected in the price of the Wii. The system isn't just about the visuals, it's the experience it is capable of providing. Whether the launch titles deliver that experience remains to be seen, but by all of the hands-on accounts we've gotten, we're well on our way to hitting that next level of game immersion. It's not VR, or a holodeck, but it's a step in the right direction. The people calling it "waggle" and a "gimmick" were the same people that were shut up by the DS relegating the PSP to a niche market. Will the Wii accomplish the same? Nobody knows, but if the hype is anything to go by, it stands a chance.

I recognize Wii Sports is worth less than the box it comes in. And as for the 'biggest step in videogame controls', what-the-****-ever, it's reflected in the price because Nintendo wants to make more and more and more money. Which they're obligated to their shareholders to do, as every company that's traded is, so I can't blame them. I can say it's a piece of shit value for me and some others, especially since it has one of the lamest pack-in games ever.

I purchased a DS on day one, and could give a **** how the market reacts to it - all I know is that i hate touchscreen in almost all uses, and Nintendo's direction has put me off. I was way more satisified with Gamecube than DS, for example. And then it comes down to third parties - which is why I still find DS fun - but their support for Wii is laughable at best.

Anyway, I'm not arguing Wii doesn't stand a chance. The complete opposite: I think it will take the crown this coming gen simply because of the missteps of its competitors. I do think the reason it wins will have exactly zero percent to do with any perceived 'innovation.'

 

[Christopher]

I think average joe won't be wowed by Wii sports here in America, take it for what it's worth...

 

[jarrod]

Anyway, I'm not arguing Wii doesn't stand a chance. The complete opposite: I think it will take the crown this coming gen simply because of the missteps of its competitors. I do think the reason it wins will have exactly zero percent to do with any perceived 'innovation.'

Differentiating factors are what evidently seem to be leading DS' progress... I'm not sure why'd you expect any different from Wii? Novel interfaces are the cornerstone of it's core design, and it's most successful software is likely to take key advantage of that... I'm not sure how you could even seperate any level of it's potential success from something so fundamentally ingrained in the platform? It's basically "the point" of wii, yet any success Wii sees wouldn't be from it? This is insane even for you Amir...

 

[gamergirly]

No, because the situation in the portable market is reversed. Nintendo was the dominant force in handhelds, the DS runs legacy software, the market for handhelds is (on the whole) younger and isn't spending crazy $$$ on handhelds, the PSP was too expensive/untested, its purpose too unfocused (is a game/music/movies/photo/whatever machine), and the games released for it do not take portability into full account like the majority of DS titles do.

Anyway let me make this clear before anyone goes off on me. I LOVE WII. I WANT WII TO BE SUCCESSFUL. But I am acknowledging that it has an uphill battle at the moment. It's going to take a targeting marketing plan and getting Wiis in people's hands (and WTF at "Gamestop will be the only stores to have them"). If Nintendo hits on all cylinders and Sony flops around then they might have a shot. But again, Americans being graphics whores...it's too early to call.

That's very true. If you look at Europe, Japan, and NA, the gaming tastes and trends are very different. While it's conceivable to think that Nintendo has a great chance in one market, it might not be the same situation for the other two. If Nintendo is going to be successful, Wii is going to have to appeal enough, no matter how differently, to individuals in all regions. After all, if Wii can expand the market, then hardcore gamers buying Wii over 360/PS3 will seem more and more insignificant with each purchase. They'll have a NEW gaming market segment to cater to.....

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Why is this thread still going?

 

[jarrod]

Why is this thread still going?

You can fix that y'know.

 

[Amir0x]

Differentiating factors are what evidently seem to be leading DS' progress... I'm not sure why'd you expect any different from Wii? Novel interfaces are the cornerstone of it's core design, and it's most successful software is likely to take key advantage of that... I'm not sure how you could even seperate any level of it's potential success from something so fundamentally ingrained in the platform? It's basically "the point" of wii, yet any success Wii sees wouldn't be from it? This is insane even for you Amir...

It's completely irrelevant to the success of Wii. That's what I am saying. Wii would not succeed were PS3 not 600. Wii would not succeed were 360 relevant in Japan and Europe. The fact of the matter is, the missteps of its competitors are too large to allow for failure in this case: any amount of waggle that passes for innovation among people will simply be an afterthought. Even if people legitimately say the reason that they went with Wii is for this aspect, and I'm sure there are plenty of Nintendo fanatics that will rush to guarantee this is the case for them (since they're LAPSED GAMERS and THANK GOD WE HAVE THIS CHANGE OR ELSE GAMING WOULD FINALLY SUCK AND BE OLD AND BORING), it wouldn't matter either way.

Success is assured for one reason only. Competitors missteps. And here we are.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

Why is this thread still going?

There's a mandate to grow nintendo threads as large as possible.




Prepare for the the uprising.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

You can fix that y'know.

It was rhetorical... seriously.