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Maxis is, yet again, removing basic features from new Sims 4

Looking at Maxis' trajectory only fills me with a sense of loss.

Let's not forget the crazy directions Will Wright took his sim games in... SimAnt, SimLife, SimCopter, SimFarm, SimGolf (amazing!)

Where is that quirky sense of play and wonder now?

They're The Sims and Sim City factory now and even within those franchises, their ambition is so limited and infected with corporate nonsense. Post-game monetization, subscription model services, social media integration, brand extension... that's the stuff that apparently gets them fired up. The obliviousness to Sim City's flaws prior to launch and the fact that they forgot to sell The Sims 4 on its new features until a few months before launch are signs of a game company that has its priorities all wrong.

They're profitable, so I guess they're not going anywhere but it would be nice if they find their game design mojo again and show some genuine vision (and no, bolting on me-too features like always online onto existing franchises is not a vision.)
 

Member876

Banned
Late to the thread but wow!

This sounds bad. What the hell happened to Maxis? They used to be one of my favorite studios. Sims and their constant stream of expansion packs were always ugly cash in by Maxis but at least the core games were still enjoyable and improvement from the last installment. I was going to buy this but perhaps I just buy Sims 3 again and some of the expansion packs, they seem to go cheap these days.
 

Avixph

Member
Another company should create a life sim to compete with the Sims, in order to make EA strive to make a better product.
 

Kabouter

Member
Kalypso has Tropico. Maybe they could try their hand at a Sim?

Ehhh, not so sure they could pull it off. I'm not too big a fan of their non-Tropico offerings, and their Tropico games are still fundamentally the same as the original Tropico's design, which was by another studio (the long defunct American developer PopTop Software, which also did Railroad Tycoon II).
 

McNum

Member
Paradox might do it. I mean, they're clearly taking a shot at SimCity with their upcoming Cities: Skylines game. I love that they actually put "Offline Gameplay" as a main feature in the trailer. That's no subtle jab there.

If there's an opening and they can pull off a people simulator, then we might have a serious competitor.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Another company should create a life sim to compete with the Sims, in order to make EA strive to make a better product.

Somebody should... i feel like that's a "niche" with great potential for profits, if you're not completely shameless like EA without any competition is.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
It won't be too hard for a competitor to take a spot since EA's games just keep getting worse

It will be hard because The Sims 2 and 3 still exist and are perfectly playable even if TS4 fails. So the theoretical competitor would have not only make a better game than TS4, but also better than TS2 and 3.
 

Jintor

Member
Ehhh, not so sure they could pull it off. I'm not too big a fan of their non-Tropico offerings, and their Tropico games are still fundamentally the same as the original Tropico's design, which was by another studio (the long defunct American developer PopTop Software, which also did Railroad Tycoon II).

Tbh I don't think kalypso had the design chops for something (old) maxis calibur
 
Damn, and I was just about to come in here and post the no-early-copy tweet myself.

I don't know how to feel about that. I don't know if the main Sims 4 audience is going to care all that much about the lack of early review copies.
 

Avixph

Member
Paradox might do it. I mean, they're clearly taking a shot at SimCity with their upcoming Cities: Skylines game. I love that they actually put "Offline Gameplay" as a main feature in the trailer. That's no subtle jab there.

If there's an opening and they can pull off a people simulator, then we might have a serious competitor.

Yeah they seem like the right company to get the job done.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What about Firaxis? They certainly have the design chops, but they'd need to bring in some creative talent to inject that humor and charm into the game.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
So like a Sid Meier's type historical or futuristic life sim?

I mean, well, if we're talking a straight-up "The Sims" clone, Firaxis could probably make one, although historically they haven't put in the humor and quirkiness into their games which is something that the Maxis of old is famous for. Firaxis have been very consistent in putting out high quality games.

They probably have better things to do with their time, although I really would like to see some dev out there somewhere give EA a run for their money by making a good life simulator game.
 

Jintor

Member
so some fan's gone and compiled a list of stuff that's in the sims 4 at launch but not in the others (well, I think they're a fan, they might be a maxis moderator from the wording)





it's kinda depressing though

Create-A-Sim:
You can change the size and shape of any body part.
You can assign bromances as a kind of relationship.
You can use any hat with any hairstyle.
Boots will go over and under pants legs.
Leggings can go under skirts and shorts.
Hoodies can cover an entire Sim’s head.
There will be seven walk styles.
Aspirations have specific traits associated to them.
Children can have individual aspirations.
Sims can have five outfits.
Randomization has been improved.
There will be new search filters to find specific colors and materials.
You can now create children based on only one Sim.
You can also make siblings and parents.

Pregnancy:
Any outfit can be maternity wear.
There will be pregnancy tests and variable pregnancy lengths.
Maternity leave is not mandatory.
Pregnancy will have different shapes and sizes, based on body type.
Sims can give birth at home without bassinets.
Sims in labor can still do things like watch TV, interact, etc.
Children can be sad from having new siblings.
Children can inherit a blend of their parents’ skin tones.
Sims have different needs and emotions when they are pregnant.

Daily Life:
Sims can earn skills at video games, programming, woodworking, rocket science, and gourmet cooking.
Sims can pick up new careers, as comedians or tech gurus.
There is now a romance bar.
Sims can multitask.
Group social interactions have been modified.
Sims can be emotionally affected by books, paintings, and objects.
A Sim can itself be resurrected with a book.
Sims can get writers block.
Sims can read skill books above them, but they will be confused when they try.
Sims can choose to not publish the books they write, and just keep them instead.
Sims can self publish their books.
Sims good at writing can write love emails.
Sims can write things other than books for money. They can write screenplays, jokes, and musical compositions.
You can order different types of pizza.
You can assign roles to Sims during parties.
Sims can make objects from wood, including musical instrument, furniture, and statues.
Sims can have all the aspirations. If a Sim switches aspirations, they still retain their progress in their prior aspirations.
Sims can do photobombs.
There are three new ways to die; from hysterical laughter, from being enraged, and from feeling mortified.
Sims can bake birthday cakes.
Sims can have and be mentors.
There are different types of showers, that affect different emotions.
Sex is referred to under euphemism WooHoo. Sims can even talk to each other about WooHoo, including unsatisfying experiences, hygiene, etc.
Sims can purchase traits.
Clothing is available for any category.
Sims can do pushups and situps on the ground.
Sims can talk while sleeping.
Teen Sims can babysit.

Build Mode:
Smoke detectors and windows can be moved up and down walls.
You can move entire rooms.
You can even move the houses if you wanted.
You can change how high the walls are.
You have more roof options, such as curved roofs.
There can be different colored roofs on the same lot.
You can place columns in fences and walls.
You can have topiary bushes.
You can put TVs on flat surfaces.
You can add multiple windows to an entire room all at once.
You can use curved fences, spandrels, friezes, and roof trim on the houses you build.
You can add corbels to porches.
You can add a string course on top of your exterior walls.
You can have curved foundations.
You can have roof awnings.
You can connect fences to your house, by using a foundation.
There will be gardening boxes.

Available items in buy mode:
Cupcake making machine
Rockets
Chemistry lab for children
Giant microscope
Craft table for children
Monkeybars
Pirate ship for children
 

Sandfox

Member
The only thing I really cared about that's missing is things like certain careers so I'm probably still going to pick this up day one unless the game is unstable or something.
 

McNum

Member
A lot of those could be collapsed into single items, and several of them seem really nitpicky for new stuff. Like the ability to place a TV on any flat surface. Unless that means "on a table" as well, it's not really new.

Still, it is true that The Sims 4 is not all subtractions. I'm just not sure if the new stuff will be enough to outweigh the lost.
 
A lot of those could be collapsed into single items, and several of them seem really nitpicky for new stuff. Like the ability to place a TV on any flat surface. Unless that means "on a table" as well, it's not really new.

Still, it is true that The Sims 4 is not all subtractions. I'm just not sure if the new stuff will be enough to outweigh the lost.

"Sims can talk to each other"
 

jwhit28

Member
It's amazing the difference between 2k's handling of classic PC IP's and the way EA goes about it. Does EA just pretend the fans of previous games don't exist anymore? Why not develop separate games for browser or mobile to go after a new crowd?
 

epmode

Member
It's amazing the difference between 2k's handling of classic PC IP's and the way EA goes about it. Does EA just pretend the fans of previous games don't exist anymore? Why not develop separate games for browser or mobile to go after a new crowd?

In SimCity's case, that's almost certainly what they did. Then decided against it and released it on PC in the end.
 

Jintor

Member
"Sex is referred to under euphemism WooHoo. Sims can even talk to each other about WooHoo, including unsatisfying experiences, hygiene, etc."
 

McNum

Member
There's really only a few items on that list that are interesting enough to take note of.

Relationships being slip into friendship and romance is neat, could provide some welcome relationship complications in the game. Those are always fun to throw at a family gone stale.

Resurrecting Sims with a book is... weird. So the Necronomicon is in? Will I have to write it or can I borrow it in the library?

And finally: Smoke Detectors. Uh... In The Sims 1, 2, and 3 these summoned the firefighters automatically in case of fire. What do they DO in The Sims 4 since the fireman NPC has been cut?
 

CzarTim

Member
There's really only a few items on that list that are interesting enough to take note of.

Relationships being slip into friendship and romance is neat, could provide some welcome relationship complications in the game. Those are always fun to throw at a family gone stale.

Resurrecting Sims with a book is... weird. So the Necronomicon is in? Will I have to write it or can I borrow it in the library?

And finally: Smoke Detectors. Uh... In The Sims 1, 2, and 3 these summoned the firefighters automatically in case of fire. What do they DO in The Sims 4 since the fireman NPC has been cut?

Yeah, on a positive note I do think multitasking could potentially be cool. Not sure if it is worth the full price game, but it's something I could see being hard to go back from once I've had it.
 

Tabby

Member
Yeah, on a positive note I do think multitasking could potentially be cool. Not sure if it is worth the full price game, but it's something I could see being hard to go back from once I've had it.

Multitasking is one of the things that I'm looking forward to.
Working out on a treadmill while talking to other sims etc but what I'm looking forward to most is hopefully playing a Sims games that doesn't run like garbage.

And here's another list of missing features in the base Sims 3 game at launch.
 

McNum

Member
I thought talking about Woohoo is in Sims since 2
I don't actually think Woohoo was a selectable conversation topic in either 2 or 3, but it's been a while since I played 3. It did, of course, come up randomly in conversations, like most other icons did, often at hilariously inappropriate moments, like teaching a toddler to speak, but as a menu option, it might actually be new.
 

Koomaster

Member
Yeah the Woohoo stuff is definitely new and sounds like a good improvement. Woohoo can be great to bad and you can talk about it as a selectable option. Woohoo also affects the hygiene and fun meters. And you can have a birds/bees talk with kids about Woohoo.

For Sims 3; sims would woohoo and basically go to sleep afterwards. Or if you Woohoo'ed some place different as soon as it was over they would stand around and carry on with their lives like nothing happened. So the enhanced emotions and woohoo will hopefully make those events more special/interesting.

I mean it's true for all the negatives; there are also some positive improvements. But in a way it only goes to highlight how awesome this game would be if they didn't cut so much that made previous games great.

Also about those fire alarms; will sims not know there is a fire if there isn't an alarm? That would be a little interesting actually. Have a sim sleeping upstairs while another starts a fire down stairs and is freaking out.
 

DedValve

Banned
I don't actually think Woohoo was a selectable conversation topic in either 2 or 3, but it's been a while since I played 3. It did, of course, come up randomly in conversations, like most other icons did, often at hilariously inappropriate moments, like teaching a toddler to speak, but as a menu option, it might actually be new.

There's a mod in TS3 that allows for it to be a discussion and there's even a Karma "Simtra" mod that allows for both bad and good woohoo experiences that are based on experience, where the woohoo takes place (and how often you perform the same type of woohoo) and even personal attraction to the other sim.

It even allows casual woohoo (and not everyone will accept blindly, it's based on traits).

I have it installed and played around with it, really fascinating stuff. Sadly my main couple seems to be having a rough time, fortunately there's a special pill--err elixer for that!

I'm off to find a more deeper relationship mod as I feel that is really lacking in TS3. And personality modules, the traits where a great addition to TS3 but in no way should they have replaced the personality modules of TS2. They needed to be an add-on not a replacement.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I don't actually think Woohoo was a selectable conversation topic in either 2 or 3, but it's been a while since I played 3. It did, of course, come up randomly in conversations, like most other icons did, often at hilariously inappropriate moments, like teaching a toddler to speak, but as a menu option, it might actually be new.

Just checked Sims 3, it has WooHoo topic but only after you've become closer.
 
apparently they are not giving out pre-release copies to reviewers.

I don't think it's mentioned in the article you linked, but yes, there seems to be some trepediation on the part of EA Maxis.

Apparently, IGN confirmed no one is getting prerelease copies.

I wonder if part of the strategy is also to put more time pressure on reviewers so they won't play for very long before their write-up, allowing them to be dazzled by the new interface/interactions before they really feel the lack of content.
 

fader

Member
I don't think it's mentioned in the article you linked, but yes, there seems to be some trepediation on the part of EA Maxis.

Apparently, IGN confirmed no one is getting prerelease copies.

I wonder if part of the strategy is also to put more time pressure on reviewers so they won't play for very long before their write-up, allowing them to be dazzled by the new interface/interactions before they really feel the lack of content.

Must of linked the wrong article.

I think they realize this game is a bust so they are doing whatever they can to soften the blow with free sims 2, and now this.
 

Green Yoshi

Member
I can't believe they have the gall to ask for a subscription fee for this mess...

I hope that casual players will be outraged too, so that the mass media reports about it.

In my opinion it was planned as an always online game until SimCity happened and then they tried to make an offline-game out of it. Or they are already planning to release Sims 4 for iOS and Android next year.
 

Berordn

Member
I hope that casual players will be outraged too, so that the mass media reports about it.

In my opinion it was planned as an always online game until SimCity happened and then they tried to make an offline-game out of it. Or they are already planning to release Sims 4 for iOS and Android next year.

I think the two big conspiracy theories at this point are:

1. It was originally a Simcity 5-esque online disaster in the making, and seeing how much of a new one the internet tore them for that fuck-up they devoted all their resources to repackaging it as an offline game while still aiming for the original release window.
2. It was originally planned as a next-gen version of their mobile game, hastily remade into a PC version, thus explaining the 32-bit only executable, loading screens, and removal of so many features that had been series staples up to this point (i.e. something as basic as DEPTH).
 

fader

Member
I think the two big conspiracy theories at this point are:

1. It was originally a Simcity 5-esque online disaster in the making, and seeing how much of a new one the internet tore them for that fuck-up they devoted all their resources to repackaging it as an offline game while still aiming for the original release window.
2. It was originally planned as a next-gen version of their mobile game, hastily remade into a PC version, thus explaining the 32-bit only executable, loading screens, and removal of so many features that had been series staples up to this point (i.e. something as basic as DEPTH).

would'nt be surprising since they are using Simcity 5 engine.
 
would'nt be surprising since they are using Simcity 5 engine.

The Sims 4 is not using the Glass Box Engine of Sim City fame (dev tweets here and here.)

It's been mentioned upthread but we know The Sims 4 has been in development from 2008 and there is lots of circumstantial evidence it was initially going to be an MMO.

Sim City's backlash probably led to switched gears in the summer of 2013 and that's how Maxis ended up with a flagship franchise sequel that lacks ambition, content and vision.
 

CzarTim

Member
"It's a completely new engine that was built specifically for The Sims 4. This is why it can't easily support pools, multi-story buildings and variable terrain."

That's really amazing. Like even if it was always online, not having depth makes zero sense.
 
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