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[AnimeTheme]

Console-wise, the holiday shopping season really highlights the mass market (casual gamers) appeal of Wii, which is quite a contrast with PS3.

 

[Yoboman]

Man, rather dissapointing for PS3 and GT5. Was expecting PS3 to gain some momentum off of that

 

[Luckyman]

Halo 3 basically falling off the map at 4M(USA)

How is selling 50% of the new hardware falling off the map? :lol

 

[tanod]

I'm bummed on that too. I'm guessing lack of marketing.

Maybe people just think that Wii Sports Golf is good enough already. I don't see anybody except hardcore golfing fans picking it up in Japan or elsewhere.

 

[papelnabangka]

How is selling 50% of the new hardware falling off the map? :lol

I'm not downplaying it's pushing power, I'm downplaying the game's legs.

 

[Lightning]

Did people seriously expect a Prologue to move systems? Especially a rather expensive Prologue at that...

PS3 did boost 14k

But the PS3 will never have the mass appeal that the Wii has... we've established that already. :lol

 

[RBH]

Wow @ the sales for Wii, PSP, and DS. Also great to see Galaxy have some legs.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I'm surprised at We Love Golf's weak sales. Talented team, quality game, popular genre... yet it sold so little.

Dunno, really. What was its advertising like?

 

[papelnabangka]

Did people seriously expect a Prologue to move systems? Especially a rather expensive Prologue at that...

It's a Gran Turismo game, even considered to be prequel to the actual main game. It's obviously no Gran Turismo main series but it's certainly no Mario Strikers either who is a mario game in name only.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm not downplaying it's pushing power, I'm downplaying the game's legs.

Legs are negligible when you sell 3.3 million in 2 weeks. Anywho, Nintendo is back to running things in a big way, but the 3rd party situation is dire for them.

 

[charlequin]

As for ToI, just wow. I honestly don't know what Namco should do at this point...

Die in a fire?



More seriously, the situation with LO and ToI is really just illustrating how fucked this development environment is for Japan. (It should also really help illustrate why the "One Console Future" idea is better than the "everyone competes with equal marketshare!" argument.) There are a lot of games that there just isn't a good place for, even though the actual buyers might still be interested. There's no clear goalpost for where a die-hard RPG player (who was 110% satisfied with PS2 last generation) should go now, with at least some conceivable signposts pointing to every one of the five current systems.

If people settle into the DS as the PS2 of this gen, some series will be left behind -- DQ will do great (as its retro vibe and gameplay-over-story angle is perfectly suited to the DS) but Tales, which is historically a fandom-oriented series with lots of voice acting and shmancy graphics, maybe won't make the transition so well. (Obviously TotT did a lot to ensure that, of course.)

The same's true for Mistwalker. LO bombed -- but what's their better option? jRPGs don't sell in the US, the PS3 isn't a software-moving system... they could try again on DS, but that system has enough options that just putting whatever out there with no marketing won't do -- and the DS won't support the kind of cinematic, emotional games (laden with voice and facial expressions) that the Gooch seems interested in anyway.

 

[Luckyman]

I'm not downplaying it's pushing power, I'm downplaying the game's legs.

lol

Selling almost 400k in it´s third month is LEGS.

 

[papelnabangka]

nvm

 

[test_account]

I was expecting higher :|

It might do ok for next week too, we'll see

Versus GT4p? No. 50% of GT4p.

Looking at just the number of copies sold its worse indeed, but looking at other factors it not so bad compared to GT4P.

The PS2 userbase was probly around 8-9 times bigger at the time when GT4P was released compared to PS3 userbase when GT5P was released. Of course, it doesnt really matter how big the userbase is since its the number of copies sold that matter in the end, but looking at the tie ratio, GTP5 is higher than GT4P. I guess you can say that is somewhat of an accomplishment.

Then there is the income. Afaik GT4P price was 2900 yen. It sold 203,300 copies the first week, which means it made 589,570,000 yen (about $5.2 million).

GT5P price was 4900 yen in retail and 4500 yen through PSN. Since we dont have any PSN sale numbers for it, lets say it sold 115,000 copies (retail + PSN) the first week and the average price was 4800 yen. It means it made about 552,000,000 yen (about $4.87 million).

Of course, it might be more expencive to develope GT5P compared to GT4P, but still, the income they made on both games isnt really big of a difference

 

[Kuramu]

I'm surprised at We Love Golf's weak sales. Talented team, quality game, popular genre... yet it sold so little.

Perhaps they're avoiding it like I will because it abandoned the real golf swing. After Wii Sports golf, I refuse togo back to timed accuracy and lining up power bars.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

No. It bombed. Sony had estimated 300k for its first week. (Half of the last GTP).... Of course nobody will care, we only care when Nintendo games bomb.

Did that include online sales?

 

[tanod]

Did people seriously expect a Prologue to move systems? Especially a rather expensive Prologue at that...

I did. PS3 is back up to 50,000 which is a good amount but I expected it to do better than that and that 50,000 would become the new base for sales.

It's probably more likely that the new weekly sales base will settle around 40,000.

 

[Busaiku]

Did that include online sales?

250k retail, 50k PSN.
Not sure if that was lifetime or first week though.

 

[Mrbob]

First of all, Smash Brothers is going to destroy Mario Galaxy sales.

Secondly, Halo 3 has now fallen off the map? Oh god....this comment is so stupid on a number of levels.

If any game may challenge Halo 3 in the USA in sales, it will be Smash Brothers. Not Mario Galaxy.

 

[Lightning]

It's a Gran Turismo game, even considered to be prequel to the actual main game. It's obviously no Gran Turismo main series but it's certainly no Mario Strikers either who is a mario game in name only.

The game is expensive for a Prologue. It costs 44US dollars for the game and you only get a small portion of the final product. One must ask themselves whats the point?

I gave up on this game once I learned how much it's going to cost me to play it. I'll wait for the final product, those with common sense will.

I did. PS3 is back up to 50,000 which is a good amount but I expected it to do better than that and that 50,000 would become the new base for sales.

It's probably more likely that the new weekly sales base will settle around 40,000.

$44 US dollars is too expensive. Expensive console + Expensive portion of a game = Bad sales. One day Sony will catch on to what the Mass market want.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

lol

Selling almost 400k in it´s third month is LEGS.

The games' sales dropped 90% within a month.

Halo 3 is just like the majority of 360 titles; supremely front loaded. I don't expect it to do much better than 5 million LTD in the US (as amazing as that is).

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Die in a fire?



More seriously, the situation with LO and ToI is really just illustrating how fucked this development environment is for Japan. (It should also really help illustrate why the "One Console Future" idea is better than the "everyone competes with equal marketshare!" argument.) There are a lot of games that there just isn't a good place for, even though the actual buyers might still be interested. There's no clear goalpost for where a die-hard RPG player (who was 110% satisfied with PS2 last generation) should go now, with at least some conceivable signposts pointing to every one of the five current systems.

If people settle into the DS as the PS2 of this gen, some series will be left behind -- DQ will do great (as its retro vibe and gameplay-over-story angle is perfectly suited to the DS) but Tales, which is historically a fandom-oriented series with lots of voice acting and shmancy graphics, maybe won't make the transition so well. (Obviously TotT did a lot to ensure that, of course.)

The same's true for Mistwalker. LO bombed -- but what's their better option? jRPGs don't sell in the US, the PS3 isn't a software-moving system... they could try again on DS, but that system has enough options that just putting whatever out there with no marketing won't do -- and the DS won't support the kind of cinematic, emotional games (laden with voice and facial expressions) that the Gooch seems interested in anyway.

I would say that JRPGs not named Final Fantasy don't sell well. A lot of people are turned off by turned based combat. I see a game like White Knight Story doing better than average because you get to control the characters and the fighting instead of just hitting prompts or like I did in FF12 and config my gambits a certain way then go to the mall and come back to find that I've leveled up 15 times when I was gone. A lot of purists might not think that jRPGs need to change, but to become relevant across the world again, they do.

 

[DayShallCome]

By the way, Nintendo has redoubled its Mario Galaxy advertising efforts.

Seems like it was just a rocky start for Mario, thing's seem to be truckin' now.

That is very good to hear. Mario Galaxy is really what Wii is all about - a fantastic game that absolutely anyone with a brain can enjoy on some level.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

As you know Tales of Innocence for the DS isn't selling very well in Japan (bad marketing, not all that good, no Tales fanbase on the DS, Tempest killing any good will toward Namco making a good Tales game on the system - could be any reason), despite being a fairly high profile game.

This happening has made me wonder why Namco hasn't pushed for an original main series PSP Tales game.

I mean, Namco basically cultivated the Tales Of userbase on the PSP with all those PS1/PS2 ports that seem to have sold relatively well. And with the system pushing 7 million userbase, I think it could be entirely possible for Namco to produce a main series Tales game, even if it's by Alfa System, that could easily sell 300k-ish; piracy issues aside.

Maybe Namco are hoping to see how the ToR port does.

 

[Magicpaint]

More seriously, the situation with LO and ToI is really just illustrating how fucked this development environment is for Japan. (It should also really help illustrate why the "One Console Future" idea is better than the "everyone competes with equal marketshare!" argument.) There are a lot of games that there just isn't a good place for, even though the actual buyers might still be interested. There's no clear goalpost for where a die-hard RPG player (who was 110% satisfied with PS2 last generation) should go now, with at least some conceivable signposts pointing to every one of the five current systems.

This is true. This gen is quite unlike last gen where the PS2 pretty much dominated the software charts (with the GBA/GC sharing left overs). There's no definitive software machine this gen and each system out there seems to face unique problems that were never issues for the PS2.

If people settle into the DS as the PS2 of this gen, some series will be left behind -- DQ will do great (as its retro vibe and gameplay-over-story angle is perfectly suited to the DS) but Tales, which is historically a fandom-oriented series with lots of voice acting and shmancy graphics, maybe won't make the transition so well. (Obviously TotT did a lot to ensure that, of course.)

Yeah, I think the DS might be ill-equipped to handle the series to its fullest. Abyss, the last major Tales game almost used all of the disc space on the PS2 and Symphonia stretched the GC to 2. ToI is very good imo, but it lacks the numerous anime scenes and voice that is necessary for the complete Tales experience. Maybe a lot of Tales fans aren't convinced the system is the real home for the series. Or maybe they're are just too many damn Tales game lately. The fanbase would have to make decisions (not everyone can afford 4 Tales game in 4 months!)... buy ToI? Or just wait for ToD: DC? or ToR PSP or ToS: KoR? Yeah... I think that's what also affected the sales of ToD last year. Doesn't help that ToI was also very expensive for a DS game. I'm curious as to how the next 3 are going to perform -- should help to see if this is more of a DS problem than Tales one.

The same's true for Mistwalker. LO bombed -- but what's their better option? jRPGs don't sell in the US, the PS3 isn't a software-moving system... they could try again on DS, but that system has enough options that just putting whatever out there with no marketing won't do -- and the DS won't support the kind of cinematic, emotional games (laden with voice and facial expressions) that the Gooch seems interested in anyway.

PS2? I think the PS2 at the moment is the best place to go for the kind of experience they're going for. The PS2 is still showing signs of strong software sales (much better than any of the three next-gen systems), at the same time, that might not work in the long term, but it's still a better option.

This happening has made me wonder why Namco hasn't pushed for an original main series PSP Tales game.

I think at this point, they'll have to consider that option. It's a decision I can get behind, based on past sales of Tales games on the system.

 

[Pureauthor]

I would say that JRPGs not named Final Fantasy don't sell well. A lot of people are turned off by turned based combat. I see a game like White Knight Story doing better than average because you get to control the characters and the fighting instead of just hitting prompts or like I did in FF12 and config my gambits a certain way then go to the mall and come back to find that I've leveled up 15 times when I was gone. A lot of purists might not think that jRPGs need to change, but to become relevant across the world again, they do.

You are aware that FFXII was generally received badly in Japan? And you are aware that the two most popular jRPG franchises in Japan are unashamedly oldschool turn-based?

 

[SovanJedi]

Wow, nice to see SMG selling well (even though MP DS is STILL selling a lot better. :/)

I wouldn't worry about that; it's clear that Mario Party games would sell by the bucketload especially with the increasing demographic that buys Wii and DS systems at the moment. Just take solace in the fact that Mario Galaxy, a truly brilliant Nintendo title, is still keeping high in the charts and reasonable in the weekly sales. I am confident it will at the least beat Mario Sunshine's LTD.

As for ToI, just wow. I honestly don't know what Namco should do at this point... perhaps stick to the PS2? Or maybe PSP. I just don't think the DS is the ideal platform anymore.

I think as somebody has pointed out before that the "Tales of..." games are suffering from fatigue in the same way Final Fantasy games are (there are certainly enough of the bloody games, ports and remakes released for it to happen.) It doesn't help matters that the previous "Tales of..." game for the DS was a fetid pile of wank. Hopefully word of mouth will save the future of the series, if not save the sales of the game.

 

[Verve]

You are aware that FFXII was generally received badly in Japan? And you are aware that the two most popular jRPG franchises in Japan are unashamedly oldschool turn-based?

... and that tales has no turn based combat system.

 

[Link316]

I did. PS3 is back up to 50,000 which is a good amount but I expected it to do better than that and that 50,000 would become the new base for sales.

It's probably more likely that the new weekly sales base will settle around 40,000.

I dunno if it'll even be able to maintain 40K cause there's practically nothing until DMC4

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You are aware that FFXII was generally received badly in Japan? And you are aware that the two most popular jRPG franchises in Japan are unashamedly oldschool turn-based?

How much did FF12 sell in Japan. I'm just talking about here in the western world. I wasn't really concerning myself with jrpgs and Japan. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[gkryhewy]

I dunno if it'll even be able to maintain 40K cause there's practically nothing until DMC4

The tide has turned - stealth relaunch of VF5 forthcoming!

I do expect it will continue to sell decently - 30-40k...20k-30k during slow periods.

 

[damisa]

The games' sales dropped 90% within a month.

Halo 3 is just like the majority of 360 titles; supremely front loaded. I don't expect it to do much better than 5 million LTD in the US (as amazing as that is).

I find it funny how you're so anti-Halo 3. Whatever happened to "Everyone who wanted Halo 3 had a 360 already", and yet even you predict 2 million additional sales past it's first month. Halo 3 might get near 5million just this year. I expect considerably more by the end of the generation. I guess you must think it's impossible that the 85%+ of xbox/PS2/Gamecube owners who spent less than $200 last gen might be waiting for more 360 pricedrops.

 

[charlequin]

Maybe a lot of Tales fans aren't convinced the system is the real home for the series. Or maybe they're are just too many damn Tales game lately.

Yeah, it's hard to tell which factor is bigger, though I'm sure both are relevant. A single real franchise entry every year is something Tales fans seem to be able to handle, but all these spinoffs and remakes have really diluted the brand. It also makes it clear that Namco has no fucking clue what they're doing or where the series is really going to live -- there's no obvious choice you can make as a fan that says "yep, I can get my Tales fix here."

PS2?

Every time a developer opts for PS2 development over any of the current systems, they're buying into something with a fundamentally short lifetime -- and helping to make the decision even harder for themselves and everyone else when the PS2 well does dry up. What Japan needs is to settle on a platform or two, figure out exactly which one each type of game goes to, and then stick to it; the sooner that happens, the sooner games can start actually selling to expectations.

I certainly still wish that PS2 had been given a longer lease on life -- I think the industry would be better off if the next-gen systems were launching now -- but that ship has sailed, and clinging to the remants of the old one just means you're not going to get rescued.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I find it funny how you're so anti-Halo 3. Whatever happened to "Everyone who wanted Halo 3 had a 360 already",

I would say the sales largely reflected that, considering the massive drop off month over month and the drop off in hardware sales in October.

and yet even you predict 2 million additional sales past it's first month. Halo 3 might get near 5million just this year. I expect considerably more by the end of the generation. I guess you must think it's impossible that the 85%+ of xbox/PS2/Gamecube owners who spent less than $200 last gen might be waiting for more 360 pricedrops.

Why wouldn't I predict an extra 2 million? Halo is a popular property that has proven and will continue to prove its worth at the register. My entire argument with Halo 3 from the getgo was against people claiming it would be the beginning of the super ascension of the 360 into the stratosphere, maintaining 360 sales at or above PS2 levels for the rest of the gen in America. Halo 3 is a blockbuster, but it hasn't broken the 360 trend: Huge first month sales, massive drop offs with little legs later on.

I in no way hate Halo 3, in fact stylistically I would argue it's one of the most beautiful games this gen especially in the lighting department. I'm just calling it as I see it.

 

[HK-47]

If you dont think Halo 3 will have legs you are mad...and like others have said, legs are overrated when you sell to 50% of the userbase and maintain that for months.

 

[HK-47]

But thats not apples-to-apples, as your including the i in titles like FFX and the extra releases of 7

So then it sold around FF X-2. Simple.

 

[jarrod]

I certainly still wish that PS2 had been given a longer lease on life -- I think the industry would be better off if the next-gen systems were launching now -- but that ship has sailed, and clinging to the remants of the old one just means you're not going to get rescued.

The 32bit transition was similarly confused though... it took a good 2 years or so for PlayStation to emerge as the favorite and there was definitely protracted SFC R&D as a result. Seems to be the standard situation when the market leader stumbles some, I bet we get more notable PS2 stuff through 2008 for Japan...

 

[SRG01]

Wow @ PSP sales. I wonder what's the profit margin on it.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It's an awesome game, one of my 2006 GOTYs... but it really wasn't successful. Higher development time and budget than any other recent installment, lower sales than any recent installment.

Also, it joins FF9 as the only unmerchandisable 3d FF. In terms of merchandising... FF7 had CURODUDUOU and Sephiroth (and actually pretty much every character except Cait Sith); FF8 had Squall, Seifer, the Gunblade, and Griever. FFX had Tidus and Yuna. FFXII doesn't really have anything milkable.

I dunno, that toy they made of one of the Judges is pretty fucking awesome.

 

[Rocksteady33]

Where does III fit into that?

DS version? Stand at a little over 1 million. Other version? No clue. Data that far back is hard to come by.

 

[John Harker]

I dunno, that toy they made of one of the Judges is pretty fucking awesome.

Not only are those judges statuettes pretty damn sweet, but unmilkable?
Have you not heard of "Ivalice Alliance?" Outside of the 13 games from FF13, doesn't seem like Square has milked a world as much as Ivalice. Looks like they hold it up there closer to Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 or whatever-the-hell they call that.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised on how well FF12 did in the end, particularly without the marketing budget Square usually puts behind their mainline launches.

Granted you're right in that it probably cost a pretty penny due to long delays, but the PS2, particularly in NA, wasn't the hot shit that it was when FFX launched. FF12 held its own against games like Gears, etc, with a tiny fraction of the marketing costs

 

[perfectchaos007]

The real story here is the PSP. I mean holy frekin crap! Just comparing to the DS last year the PSP has really made some major precentage gains on the DS.

 

[jesusraz]

DS version? Stand at a little over 1 million. Other version? No clue. Data that far back is hard to come by.

I think the NES one was 1.4 million...but that's just off the top of my head.

 

[Oblivion]

Nice rebound for Galaxy! Might not be a million seller, but at least it will pass Sunshine for sure.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Too bad for Nights and We love Golf, although I'm not sure if I'll like the swing mechanic (or lack thereof). Good GT5P and SMG numbers.

Wii and PSP have really massive hardware sales. 360 is a big disappointment (even for the low standard the XBox brand has set), PS3 is disappointing as well. I didn't expect a huge bump for GT5P and holiday sales but these numbers are pretty bad.

Thanks

Last week 38k, this week 53k = 15k more

So the holiday sales period has no effect on PS3?

Which casual don't like puzzle solving games with great story?

So you thought Layton would sell that well when they first announced it?

108K for GT5rologue? That's... not good, is it?

I think it's pretty good. Roughly 50% of what GT4P did on a much bigger install base.

Interesting.

If that 53,000 number for PS3 holds up in the official Media Create numbers, that would mean PS3 has sold approx. as many (if not more) PS3s in the last 6 weeks as they managed to sell in the previous 20 weeks.

And if there's another week like that next week, it'll make that differential much greater, since looking backwards past that point, you get into those really miserable weeks when PS3 was only selling in the embarrassingly bad 8-9K range.

Good acceleration there.

Nice :lol .

 

[sphinx]

I think We love golf is bombing because the market is saturated of golf games:

I know these are only 4 games but having them all in one year is quite a lot:

Wii sports
Swing Golf Pangya
Tiger woods 08
Swing Golf Pangya, 2nd shot.

with tiger and Pangya 2, both being released in november just a couple of weeks ago. That is more golf offer than people can take and now capcom expects to sell a game that does little to distinguish itself from the pangya games and in the most crowded season of the year?.

It was a mistake.

This is the kind of games that the Wii will need in april or june.

Same with nights, a couple extra months and a release in april or june in a week where it doesn't have to compete against anything would have done better for its sales.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Oh and it goes without saying that 3rd party Wii software completely bombed. To me it seems clear that Wii owners are buying Wii Fit/Wii Sports/Galaxy (!!!)/ Mario and Sonic and that is sucking up the oxygen for anything else.

Well, 3rd parties will turn around in due time. Or they won't. It's not abysmal and at least Nintendo is providing for the current owners. Nintendo's output is substantial for the first year. After suffering through a GCN, I'm glad I'm not forced to buy 3 consoles this gen, not with those prices. I won't be a singular console owner but I won't be forced to pay the price to jump in until later.

 

[test_account]

So the holiday sales period has no effect on PS3?

Of course, that goes for every system (atleast i dont think any system sell worse than usual around holiday seasons). But check the stats, 58k, 40k, 38k, then 53k. I'd say its a pretty safe bet to say that the PS3 sales wouldnt be 53k this week if it wasnt for GT5P, just like its a pretty safe bet to say that Wii wouldnt sell 168k this week (well.. last week) if it wasnt for Wii Fit

 

[Linkup]

I never doubted SMG, nice legs. I wonder if WLG was actually advertised.

 

[Jokeropia]

It's probably more likely that the new weekly sales base will settle around 40,000.

Outside of the holidays? That's unlikely. Keep in mind that this is one of the biggest weeks of the year.

This is true. This gen is quite unlike last gen where the PS2 pretty much dominated the software charts (with the GBA/GC sharing left overs). There's no definitive software machine this gen

DS is selling more software than all other platforms combined. Surely that qualifies as dominating?

The real story here is the PSP. I mean holy frekin crap.

These are obviously good numbers, but there WAS a new color released this week.