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[JaMarco]

Uh, actually, that does change the facts.
Zack and Wiki not being a hit? Not a problem.
Zack and Wiki not even registering? Big problem.

Maybe if they actually advertised the game, poeple might know it even exists >_<

 

[HK-47]

Maybe if they actually advertised the game, poeple might know it even exists >_<

Wouldnt have been profitable to advertise something as niche as that.

 

[tanod]

As has been pointed out, PSP never did half as bad as the PS3 is.

I thought my mentioning that "that would be the best case scenario" accounted for that.

 

[Jokeropia]

Just cause 3rd dont feel like making shit for the Wii doesnt change the fact that Nintendo software is the alpha and omega on the system

Of course the latter isn't changed by the former, it's a direct result of it. Third parties have no one to blame but themselves, it's the market and not Nintendo that decides which games that sell.

But the software performance is very similar. So maybe you could accredit a lot of those PSP sales to those interested in it's media functions. The PS3 version of that audience being the Blu-Ray crowd, which doesn't seem to be there yet in Japan..

PS3 is actually doing worse in software as well, but either way a PSP-style revival for PS3 wouldn't really help as far as software sales go.

 

[Vinci]

Wouldnt have been profitable to advertise something as niche as that.

They said the same thing about No More Heroes, yet Ubisoft -- a month after its release in America, mind you -- decided to start advertising it. Also, no one has any clue what is 'niche' anymore: We used to all believe the casual games that are now destroying the charts would be 'niche' and do nothing.

As people have discussed before regarding EyeToy and Wii Fit, one was not successful whilst the other is likely going to 'end gaming.' So something has definitely changed in the market and developers / publishers need to figure that out and try new things with how they market their titles.

 

[iidesuyo]

All DS games combined have sold less than 130k... on a platform with a userbase of 22m+.

And Sony should send flowers to the Capcom headquarters. MH is saving their face in Japan.

 

[Jokeropia]

All DS games combined have sold less than 130k... on a platform with a userbase of 22m+.

Are you being serious? If so, I'll let you think for a while about how stupid the comment is.

 

[Sharp]

Sorry, I didn't say 400k was the magic barrier for success.



Did you just say that discounting the top games would be ridiculous and then proceed to discount first-party games? :lol

Considering that I gave a reason within the very sentence you find so amusing (namely, that I'm talking about the success of companies that are not Nintendo, which is especially relevant because Nintendo obviously isn't developing for the PSP so we can't measure their relative success on the system, whereas we can for third parties), I'd say I am on slightly more solid ground, yes. You discounted the top four for no reason at all other than that were successful; of course if you remove the most successful games, you will get games that are not as successful. It would have been slightly more relevant if you only removed the three that were Monster Hunter, since I was arguing that the PSP is not just a vehicle for that particular franchise, but you didn't.

With nowhere near the ROI or even likely profit for their effort. PSP, in general, is not a good software platform for UMD games. In specific cases, that can vary.

What basis do you have for that belief? PS2 games could often do well under 400k and still be profitable, and I have a hard time believing that PSP development costs are higher. Obviously piracy is a very real problem, but despite that a lot of games seem to do respectably--certainly enough to profit, especially since a lot of the releases are ports.

Just to avoid this spiraling even further due to a misunderstanding, I was commenting that it was numerically ironic that all but four games on the PSP fall below the same line as all of the games on the PS3. No comment on profitability. No comment on success. It is possible to find the numbers themselves interesting without ascribing deeper meaning to the overall system's health.

What's ironic about it, exactly? Not only because of the qualification of "all but four," but also because I'm pretty sure for something to be ironic it has to be funny because it's so unexpected and/or is funny in the context of extra knowledge that one possesses. But at this point it's pretty well-known that PSP games are not doing anywhere close to the numbers they did on the PS2, so I don't see how it applies.

 

[Captain Smoker]

All DS games combined have sold less than 130k... on a platform with a userbase of 22m+.

97.546.848 software units till end of March 08 ftw.

PSP: 18.862.857


Tie Ratio:
NDS: 4.40
PSP: 2.20

 

[Neo C.]

Wouldnt have been profitable to advertise something as niche as that.

the game actually had some advertisement in Europe. And it has sold quite decent.

 

[ethelred]

Does Nintendo still own a chunk of Bandai or did they sell it off after the Namco merger?

I thought it was a piece of Namco they owned, not Bandai? In any event, Nintendo lost that during the Monolith tradeoff.

 

[Vinci]

the game actually had some advertisement in Europe. And it has sold quite decent.

Anecdotal: A lot of my family and friends ended up buying a Wii after trying mine out. Recently, I was showing them some of the new games I had added to my collection and one was Z&W.

The most common response to it? "When the hell did that come out?" Four later went out and purchased it.

So all the 'niche' talk can go to fucking hell. Things can sell on the Wii if people know they exist, are fun, and take some advantage of what the system offers.

 

[Syntek]

Nintendo dumbed down the hardware because they wanted it to be small and silent and become a part of the living room where everybody has acces to it and everybody can get interested in it.

That's probably what they would say to the press to make it sound good, but was Nintendo even in a position to take huge losses in hardware and hope for a rebound later like MS and Sony? I don't think they had a choice.

 

[Jokeropia]

That's probably what they would say to the press to make it sound good, but was Nintendo even in a position to take huge losses in hardware and hope for a rebound later like MS and Sony? I don't think they had a choice.

Nintendo had a warchest of ~$10 billion even before this generation started, so they could most certainly survive some massive losses if they had to. They just prefer to make profit. (Which they are completely unmatched at in this market.)

 

[later]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

 

[Vinci]

Nintendo had a warchest of ~$10 billion even before this generation started, so they could most certainly survive some massive losses if they had to. They just prefer to make profit.

Has Nintendo ever even come close to having significant financial trouble? I mean, didn't they register a loss only one quarter in, like, 100 years or something?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

What's ironic about it, exactly? Not only because of the qualification of "all but four," but also because I'm pretty sure for something to be ironic it has to be funny because it's so unexpected and/or is funny in the context of extra knowledge that one possesses. But at this point it's pretty well-known that PSP games are not doing anywhere close to the numbers they did on the PS2, so I don't see how it applies.

With the extra knowledge of PSP's quadruple user base and double-triple time on the market, the existence of a similar ceiling affecting almost all titles doesn't seem expected. Though yeah, that you need to disqualify the top 4 PSP titles changes things. If we disqualified the top 4 PS3 games, we'd be talking about its 300K ceiling.

I thought it was a piece of Namco they owned, not Bandai? In any event, Nintendo lost that during the Monolith tradeoff.

I don't know about Namco (it's hard to keep track of which publishers own small chunks of other publishers), but I believe he's talking about when Nintendo bought 2.6% of Bandai about 4.5 years ago. It caused a lot of speculation at the time, but I don't know what the current status is.

That's probably what they would say to the press to make it sound good, but was Nintendo even in a position to take huge losses in hardware and hope for a rebound later like MS and Sony?

Having made money hand over fist for the last few decades, sure they could've bled money if they wanted to go for that strategy.

 

[Christine]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

And others value small and silent above the features you consider "more important". Isn't variety wonderful?

 

[Neomoto]

Btw, isn't Mario Kart Wii opening about 100k higher than Brawl?

 

[Vinci]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

This is, however, important within Japanese households. A market that was becoming less accepting of consoles and Nintendo felt the addition of 'small and silent' to the Wii's (perhaps lacking) myriad of features would be appealing to them.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Namco and sales expectations = o_0

"1 million for Gundam and 1 million for Musou - in Japan alone."

Never forget.

I thought my mentioning that "that would be the best case scenario" accounted for that.

You just wait for...2010.

All DS games combined have sold less than 130k... on a platform with a userbase of 22m+.

Pretty much all games on PS2 to be bombs confirmed!

That's probably what they would say to the press to make it sound good, but was Nintendo even in a position to take huge losses in hardware and hope for a rebound later like MS and Sony? I don't think they had a choice.

When did they ever take huge losses in hardware? N64? Dunno.

 

[Magicpaint]

Btw, isn't Mario Kart Wii opening about 100k higher than Brawl?

No.

 

[Jokeropia]

Btw, isn't Mario Kart Wii opening about 100k higher than Brawl?

~200k lower.

 

[Neo C.]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

And less power consumption?
Lots of people. The PS2 redesigns are all about small, silent and less power consumption.

This is, however, important within Japanese households. A market that was becoming less accepting of consoles and Nintendo felt the addition of 'small and silent' to the Wii's (perhaps lacking) myriad of features would be appealing to them.

Generally miniaturization is nearly always a good thing. People are buying HDTVs because they are flat and have less volume, the resolution isn't the prime factor.

 

[birdchili]

What's important is that A-level titles sell the way A-level titles should, B-level titles sell the way B-level titles should, and C-level titles sell the way C-level titles should. If companies release C-level titles, they should get C-level sales.

this isn't really surprising though. nintendo has courted two main groups: "new audience" gamers (wii ___ line), and their previous console audience (gc sequels). obviously, they're doing very well selling software to both of these groups.

third parties have had some success selling to the new audiences, but generally don't have access to nintendo ip for snaring the others.

other than these groups, there hasn't been a breakout hit that i can think of (excluding launch games), but there haven't really been many brilliant games that targeted people outside of these groups either, so it's not particularly surprising that games outside of nintendo's focus have been selling poorly.

 

[ksamedi]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

A small and silent console has a higher chance of ending up in the living room where the whole family has acces to it. This increases user rate, which increases software sales.

 

[Psychotext]

A small and silent console has a higher chance of ending up in the living room where the whole family has acces to it. This increases user rate, which increases software sales.

I kinda see what you're saying... but we're not talking about something the size of a fridge here. As for silent, surely that only matters when it's on so I'm not sure why it would affect its place in the living room or not (given the TV is going to be on and making noise when you're playing it anyway).

 

[Neomoto]

Who cares about small and silent (compared to more important features)? I don't.

I think Sony for one cares greatly now. And Microsoft probably too, especially with the whole 3 red rings of death and all that.

~200k lower.

Nice. I guess I remembered wrong then

 

[ksamedi]

I kinda see what you're saying... but we're not talking about something the size of a fridge here. As for silent, surely that only matters when it's on so I'm not sure why it would affect its place in the living room or not (given the TV is going to be on and making noise when you're playing it anyway).

Didn't you know? the Wii is always 'on'.

 

[Yoshi]

Great start for Mario Kart and well deserved too .

 

[Psychotext]

Didn't you know? the Wii is always 'on'.

If you class enhanced standby as on... sure. Still doesn't make a difference though as nothing else I own makes any noise in enhanced standby either.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

"1 million for Gundam and 1 million for Musou - in Japan alone."

Never forget.

You don't want to forget something you get wrong? :lol

 

[ksamedi]

If you class enhanced standby as on... sure. Still doesn't make a difference though as nothing else I own makes any noise in enhanced standby either.

Well its not the same as putting your laptop on standby, it does processing all the time and this for a period of 5 years or more. Surely you can't compare it to enchanced standby. Its never meant ot be turned off. Besides that, I think fan noise is very annoying, it can be a factor for a lot of families who let there kid play in the living room.

 

[Vinci]

Its never meant ot be turned off.

I actually can't remember the last time I turned mine off ... Huh.

 

[Sage00]

Well its not the same as putting your laptop on standby, it does processing all the time and this for a period of 5 years or more. Surely you can't compare it to enchanced standby. Its never meant ot be turned off. Besides that, I think fan noise is very annoying, it can be a factor for a lot of families who let there kid play in the living room.

It's just an enhanced wake-on-LAN feature that most laptops and PS3 have(for remote play for example)..

 

[perfectchaos007]

Although the PSP sales will never catch up to the DS's in Japan, the PSP is going to at least make their sales respectable. This momentum for the PSP will probably roll into the next portable gen, so Nintendo better watch out. Infact, maybe all of Nintendo's portable efforts at this moment is research for their new portable and not DS games...

 

[Vinci]

Although the PSP sales will never catch up to the DS's in Japan, the PSP is going to at least make their sales respectable. This momentum for the PSP will probably roll into the next portable gen, so Nintendo better watch out. Infact, maybe all of Nintendo's portable efforts at this moment is research for their new portable and not DS games...

Methinks it's being more directed towards the Wii and, yes, likely some DS games as well. So long as their games are selling a mint each release, there's no reason to move on yet. At least not without another upgrade to the DS hardware.

 

[ksamedi]

It's just an enhanced wake-on-LAN feature that most laptops and PS3 have(for remote play for example)..

It doesn't really matter, because there will come a time when it will download data all the time, for all kinds of games, channels whatever. It will continually need to process data and this heats up the Wii (mine heats up from time to time even when on standby). If the wii sounded like the PS3 all of a sudden, it would be kicked out of the living room in an instant.

 

[kswiston]

Methinks it's being more directed towards the Wii and, yes, likely some DS games as well. So long as their games are selling a mint each release, there's no reason to move on yet. At least not without another upgrade to the DS hardware.

This could have been said about the Gameboy Color or the GBA at the time of their successor's release though. I think it will still be a couple years before Nintendo's next handheld, but I don't expect them to wait until DS sales have completely died down before moving on.

I'm more curious to see whether Nintendo's next handheld will remain backwards compatible with the DS. If they want to again go for something new, DS backwards compatibility really contrains them. With the GBA>DS switch, Nintendo only had to make sure they had a proper cartridge slot, two face buttons and two shoulder buttons for backwards compatibility. Backwards compatibility with the DS requires a proper cartridge slot, two displays, one touch display, a microphone, four face buttons, and two shoulder buttons. Not a problem if the next handheld is just a beefed up DS (kind of like the GBA was a beefed up gameboy), but if they want to go a completely different route backwards compatibility may be constricting.

 

[Xeke]

I love how small and silent my Wii is. It is out of the way and just does its thing. By far my favorite console design ever.

 

[donny2112]

Considering that I gave a reason within the very sentence you find so amusing (namely, that I'm talking about the success of companies that are not Nintendo, which is especially relevant because Nintendo obviously isn't developing for the PSP so we can't measure their relative success on the system, whereas we can for third parties), I'd say I am on slightly more solid ground, yes. You discounted the top four for no reason at all other than that were successful;

You might be on solid footing if I had done anything of the sort. I discounted no games. I quoted Pureauthor's response to your erroneous statement that the PSP would be a viable third-party platform for PS2 games, in general. It just so happened that the two game series he quoted are the top 4 games on the platform and, interestingly enough, everything else is below the same line that all PS3 games have been unable to cross. Isn't that interesting. No comment of profitability. No comment of some "magical barrier." You made that part up on your own. :lol

What basis do you have for that belief?

On the basis that the PS2 is a software monster for third-parties that we are unlikely to ever see again. As such, the PSP, and every other system currently available, would pale in comparison and offer lower ROI and likely profitability. The DS at least could eventually come close for third-parties in volume, but PSP? You really need to look at the PS2 vs. PSP numbers for third-party games.

What's ironic about it, exactly?

That the PSP, which I have sales info for over 200 games on, has all but 4 of its games below the same level that any PS3 game has yet to cross. Finding the same "line in the sand" for the two systems when their should be no correlation is interesting and unexpected (i.e. ironic).

 

[Vinci]

Finding the same "line in the sand" for the two systems when their should be no correlation is interesting and unexpected (i.e. ironic).

It's a conspiracy by Sony to make you Sales Agers ponder whether there really is a correlation or meaning behind this 'line.' They want to keep you up at night, chewing on your nails, and sweating, wondering, "What if ... ?"

 

[Gaborn]

Interesting fact: The PS3 would need to average over 50k every remaining week till the end of the year to come close to passing the Wii's first year (52 weeks) of sales.

 

[Innotech]

For their own software...wow breaking news right there

yeah I know the wii versions of big games like Hot shots golf 5, Musou Orochi, GT5P, dynasty warriors gundam, RGGK3, Ridge Racerrrrr all totally flopped. didnt even chart!

 

[manueldelalas]

yeah I know the wii versions of big games like Hot shots golf 5, Musou Orochi, GT5P, dynasty warriors gundam, RGGK3, Ridge Racerrrrr all totally flopped. didnt even chart!

Well We Love Golf did flop...

But I agree with you that 3rd parties haven't released any of their big hits on the Wii, most of their games are either ports, licensed crap, spinoffs or games with no marketing.

Some games like Winning Eleven did flop (70k...)... although it was released much later than other versions...

 

[Stumpokapow]

Some games like Winning Eleven did flop (70k...)... although it was released much later than other versions...

Your number on this is wrong by almost 50% at this point.

 

[Sage00]

It doesn't really matter, because there will come a time when it will download data all the time, for all kinds of games, channels whatever. It will continually need to process data and this heats up the Wii (mine heats up from time to time even when on standby). If the wii sounded like the PS3 all of a sudden, it would be kicked out of the living room in an instant.

? PS3 is completely silent while in remote play or the XMB. It's only when you've been playing a game for 15+ minutes the fans really kick in.

 

[manueldelalas]

Your number on this is wrong by almost 50% at this point.

Yeah? sorry about that

 

[Psychotext]

? PS3 is completely silent while in remote play or the XMB.

It's not completely silent (sorry... I'm an audio geek) but it is quiet.

 

[ksamedi]

? PS3 is completely silent while in remote play or the XMB. It's only when you've been playing a game for 15+ minutes the fans really kick in.

It may be silent in remote play, but remote play and WiiConnect24 are not the same thing.