Media Create Sales: Sep 21-27, 2009

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
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duckroll said:
For years now, they have been experimenting with this "new" marketing concept, that for core games they do not need to market aggressively at all simply because core gamers like us will actively seek out information and buy the games anyway. They are wrong. We don't buy games blindly unless we like what we're seeing, and if you fail to market a game well, it will often backfire.
I think part of it comes down to the fact that yes, we are willing to seek out information, but minus the 15 "Give Me Nintendo or Give Me Death" guys who post on GAF, the Nintendo games we're forced to actively seek out information on are competing with games that are being marketed, and there's core gamers are constantly facing a situation where game supply exceeds their time and cash ability to buy and play everything.

So for me, a totally unmarketed game is on level footing with a tiny game from some podunk company. Yes, I'll probably check it out. Yes, I'll look out for info. But only after I've already bought all the games I'm really excited for--and those largely come from companies that make an effort on promotion.

You can't say that Monolithsoft is a developer that "no one gives a fuck" about at all either. In fact, they just released two consecutive games on the DS for Bandai Namco which sold way more than Soma Bringer did. Both games had way more marketing than Soma Bringer did, and were recognizable brands. All things considered though, Soma Bringer didn't sell badly either, for a game with almost zero real marketing, it still did over 100k in Japan.
The best part about Monolithsoft is that you can't exactly blame game quality either, because while Soma Bringer got mixed reception on these parts (Aeana and Segata insist on trolling me by calling it "Coma Bringer" any time I mention interest in one day playing it), they're clearly made shittier games that have done better.

What does this tell me? It tells me that it is not who Nintendo owns or works with that is the problem, but the fundamental issue of how Nintendo chooses not to promote their own core titles, when developed externally.
You can actually go back a little bit further, I think, to get some origins on why this happens. In 1996, Nintendo funded an external holding company called Marigul which had a number of development studios.

Here is a list of the studios they funded and the products that came of this arrangement before Marigul was liquidated in 2003:
- Ambrella -- ... Hey You, Pikachu... Pokemon Channel. (Still exists)
- Clever Trick -- Worked on an N64 game. Was never released.
- Noise -- Custom Robo series. (Still exists, works for external publishers as well)
- Param -- Doshin the Giant.
- Saru Brunei -- Cubivore.

So in 7 years from 5 studios they got a scant handful of junker games. Since that point, basically every Nintendo-funded external studio has been neglected in the way you describe. I don't know if it's because of Marigul's failure that Nintendo acts the way they do, or if it's just incident to Marigul's failure, but there you have it.

Also I think this issue has been exacerbated since the beginning of 2008. That's around when it feels like Nintendo mid-tier core games started seriously underperforming across the board with no obvious effort to stop the bloodletting. 2009 is just a total disaster; Another Code R has to be pretty close to Nintendo's worst-selling game ever and there's no amount of logic that can figure that one out without putting some blame on positioning, awareness, and promotion.

Endless Ocean... Or rather, you can NOT see, since there's basically zero hype and zero attempts to actively promote them or provide new information.
I would say that Endless Ocean is a little exception because it's really not a "core game" by any stretch of the imagination and the first Endless Ocean actually sold better than its predecessors despite a game recall interrupting sales.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Stumpokapow said:
I would say that Endless Ocean is a little exception because it's really not a "core game" by any stretch of the imagination and the first Endless Ocean actually sold better than its predecessors despite a game recall interrupting sales.
It might not be a "core game" by definition, but it's certainly not a mainstream game either. It's more of a hobbyist sort of game, clearly targeted at a more mature and adult audience with a focus on documentary style gameplay as opposed to a traditional game. There's certainly a lot more Nintendo can do to promote the series to this audience, and they're simply not doing enough. That's basically just what I was trying to say.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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I had a feeling people were setting themselves up for disappointment, with Wii Fit+. It struck me as the type of game that would mainly sell to pre-existing Fit owners. Even with strong sell-through for rest of the week, we are looking at maybe 25k BB editions for the week. Let's optimistically say that 80% of those sales are to new Wii owners. That's 20k Wii hardware sales for the week due to Wii Fit+ (will likely be less). Looks like the price cut will have to do most of the heavy lifting, or Wii hardware sales won't be in that 50k+ range people are hoping for.
 

Road

Member
Jan 21, 2008
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From the biggest releases, I consider good numbers only for NGS2 and IE2 (I had even forgotten about the double release; Level 5 is trying so hard lately to make new "milkable" franchises it's not even funny). Macross also had a strong start, from sell-through rates, but I don't know how it holds compared to the others in the series.

Stealing Kurosaki Ichigo's "job"... (Alll Famitsu numbers.)

NGS2 already beat the original's first week on its first day. If it follows NGS pattern, it will finish the week with 46,000. Best start for the series (since it was revived at least):
Code:
				        FD   |   FW   |   LTD
2004-03: [XBOX] Ninja Gaiden --------        | 40,000 | 57,000
2007-06: [PS3] Ninja Gaiden Sigma --- 24,000 | 41,000 | 76,000
2008-09: [360] Ninja Gaiden 2 ------- 21,000 | 27,000 | 49,000
2009-10: [PS3] Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 - 27,200 |        |
Are GT fans that purist in Japan or are they just not that many?
Code:
                                            FD   |    FW   |   LTD
2007-12: [PS3] Gran Turismo 5: Prologue - 50,000 | 108,000 | 239,000
2009-10: [PSP] Gran Turismo ------------- 54,900 |         |
It will be disappointing if Wii Fit+ performs worse overall than WSR (first week and legs), considering the original was bigger than WS.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
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I think those Wii Fit Plus numbers are healthy. Big numbers for the standalone means that existing users are upgrading, and I can't imagine someone who did not buy Wii Fit would RUSH OUT to buy Wii Fit Plus so it makes sense that the balance board bundle would be a slow burner.

I think the success scenario for Nintendo is that the balance board bundle continues selling the 10-15k Wii Fit was selling every week up until recently, and a good percentage, maybe 50-60% of the owners of the original upgrade. That math gives you 1.7 million upgraders and ~800k new owners over the first year which puts WF+ below Wii Fit but still quite strong.

I think the absolute maximal scenario would be if the bundle sells, I don't know, 1/2 as well as Wii Fit over the first year (1.3 million) and 80+% of the original owners upgrade. Then you're looking at 4.1 million overall, which would be staggering, frankly.

duckroll said:
It might not be a "core game" by definition, but it's certainly not a mainstream game either. It's more of a hobbyist sort of game, clearly targeted at a more mature and adult audience with a focus on documentary style gameplay as opposed to a traditional game. There's certainly a lot more Nintendo can do to promote the series to this audience, and they're simply not doing enough. That's basically just what I was trying to say.
I disagree that they Endless Ocean 1 was significantly bungled simply because it did better than previous series installments despite, again, being kneecapped by having a disasterous supply situation resulting from a product recall. I think without the recall it would have outsold Afrika (EO did 50k, Afrika did 70k). Now, obviously a game on the Wii during the Wii's hot streak should easily lap a similar game on the PS3 during the nadir of its sales, but I still think this is not one of Nintendo's worst product handlings.

... On the other hand, I agree they haven't done enough for Endless Ocean 2. I think it's trivially true that people are less likely to buy incremental upgrades than brand new products, and so thus incremental upgrades require extra-special TLC with regard to promotion and making sure that the target audience understands why a superficially minor upgrade constitutes a worthwhile investment.

That's even more true when you're dealing with an audience who only buys 3 or 4 games a year at most. I think that with proper marketing and follow-through and the right release timing and price, EO installments could probably do 150k copies.
 
gkrykewy said:
WiiFit+ will obviously do massive numbers. Weren't sales geniuses decrying WSR's first-day sales as well? :lol

These games simply do not have heavy first days. Frankly I'm surprised that it's over 100k. I believe WSR only moved 40% of its initial shipment on the first day as well.
I don't think it'll touch the original's numbers, to be honest.
 
Apr 5, 2006
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What really surprises me is the really poor performance of the new Hot Shots game.
It's not golf, but it's still doing much worse than I'd have expected.

Though I wouldn't think there was much hype going into it.
 
Jan 9, 2006
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onken said:
So what do you think for the first month?



Yup. I think digital sales will be a lot lower than retail, but that's a guess of course.
Yeah, yeah. I dont think digital sales are nowhere as good as umd sales. Even if the PSP Go! was released yesterday, which isnt the case...
 

EXGN

Member
Dec 26, 2007
2,716
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Did they give GT PSP away in Japan like they're doing in the US? Also, just saw the Ninja Gaiden numbers, is that series expressly meant for Westerners? I always thought it was popular with Japanese gamers.
 
EXGN said:
Did they give GT PSP away in Japan like they're doing in the US? Also, just saw the Ninja Gaiden numbers, is that series expressly meant for Westerners? I always thought it was popular with Japanese gamers.
Not really no, NGS, NG2 both sold under 50k fw. I have no idea how the Xbox versions did but I'm going to go out on a limb and say badly.
 
Nov 10, 2004
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onken said:
Not really no, NGS, NG2 both sold under 50k fw. I have no idea how the Xbox versions did but I'm going to go out on a limb and say badly.
Xbox 360 - Ninja Gaiden 2 - FW 27,215 LTD - 49,543

PS3 - Ninja Gaiden Σ - FW 40,886 LTD - 76,095
 

Road

Member
Jan 21, 2008
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Dengeki Sales: 09/21 - 09/27

01./06. [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 93,926 / 1,222,147
02./02. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold (Pokemon Co.) - 86,476 / 1,035,112
03./01. [NDS] Pokemon Soul Silver (Pokemon Co.) - 80,995 / 1,033,440
04./03. [PS3] Tales of Vesperia (Bandai Namco Games) - 49,639 / 275,582
05./04. [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakkyuu Portable 4 (Konami) - 45,276 / 160,559
06./08. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Defenders of the Starry Sky (Square-Enix) - 35,206 / 3,948,489
07./11. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 34,424 / 1,212,309
08./00. [360] Halo 3: ODST (Microsoft) - 29,950 / NEW
09./05. [NDS] SaGa 2: Hihou Densetsu - Goddess of Destiny (Square-Enix) - 29,256 / 127,675
10./07. [PSP] Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's Tag Force 4 (Konami) - 14,838 / 68,094
11./17. [WII] Monster Hunter 3 (Capcom) - 10,472 / 892,538
12./16. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2 G (BEST) (Capcom) - 10,389 / 977,047
13./09. [PSP] Ys Seven (Nihon Falcom) - 10,363 / 41,444
14./19. [NDS] Sloane and MacHale's Mysterious Story 2 (Level 5) - 9,544 / 49,465
15./15. [PS3] Kidou Senshi Gundam Senki: Lost War Chronicles (Bandai Namco Games) - 9,240 / 244,303
16./12. [360] Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (BEST) (Square-Enix) - 8,839 / 27,506
17./20. [WII] Forever Blue 2: Umi no Yobigoe (Nintendo) - 8,482 / 26,949
18./25. [NDS] Penguin no Mondai X: Tenkuu no 7 Senshi (Konami) - 7,922 / ?
19./24. [NDS] Puyo Puyo 7 (SEGA) - 7,053 / ?
20./21. [NDS] Love Plus (Konami) - 7,005 / ?

Dengeki still tracking the 360 version of COD4 ahead of the PS3 one.

Code:
Hardware |  This Week |  Last Week |    LTD
NDS      |     77,316 |     80,788 | 27,728,285
PSP      |     15,254 |     18,809 | 12,672,459
Wii      |     10,574 |     14,978 |  8,625,774
PS3      |     43,279 |     52,550 |  3,658,822
X360     |      5,419 |      4,917 |  1,141,510
PS2      |      3,139 |      2,775 |  
Total    |    154,981 |    174,817 |
PS3 closer to Media-Create (40k) than Famitsu (50k).



First-half of FY 2009 (03/31 to 09/27) data:

- Market:
-- ¥ 233.00 billion, down 12.1% YOY (from ¥ 265.1 billion).

- Hardware:
-- 3.96 million units, down 17.6%.
-- ¥ 85.20 billion, down 16.2%.

- Software:
-- 28.88 million units, down 7.3%.
-- ¥ 147.80 billion, down 9.5%.

http://news.dengeki.com/soft/ranking/ranking.html
http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/464/464939/

-------------
d+pad said:
What on earth were people expecting from this title's first day?
(First day / First week)
2006-11 - Wii Sports - ? / 177,000
2007-12 - Wii Fit - ? / 254,000 (2 days, Saturday release)
2009-06 - Wii Sports Resort - 155,000 / 354,000
2009-10 - Wii Fit Plus - 117,300 / ?

Considering it's way cheaper, Wii just got a price drop and Wii Fit is more successful than WS, people were expecting it to perform better than WSR?

Of course, it can still top it when the week ends. We'll have to wait.


------------
Exact Famitsu numbers for this past week (source):

PS3 - 49,673
DSi - 65,693
Wii - 12,882
 
Oct 19, 2005
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Stumpokapow said:
The best part about Monolithsoft is that you can't exactly blame game quality either, because while Soma Bringer got mixed reception on these parts (Aeana and Segata insist on trolling me by calling it "Coma Bringer" any time I mention interest in one day playing it), they're clearly made shittier games that have done better.
[/QUOTE]

It was ugly, but it had an (excellent) full soundtrack by Mitsuda. If SE had published it I think it could've done 2.5x as much, easily.

Stumpokapow said:
So in 7 years from 5 studios they got a scant handful of junker games. Since that point, basically every Nintendo-funded external studio has been neglected in the way you describe. I don't know if it's because of Marigul's failure that Nintendo acts the way they do, or if it's just incident to Marigul's failure, but there you have it.
Wow, a new completely insipid and self-defeating strategy Nintendo seems to have adopted solely out of shell-shocked inability to move past the errors of the past, completely unrelated to their other such strategy about third-parties. o_O

Stumpokapow said:
I think that with proper marketing and follow-through and the right release timing and price, EO installments could probably do 150k copies.
I agree. The game is really quite charming and one of the better arguments for the Wii for a certain kind of expanded audience.

gkrykewy said:
Interestingly, NOA (and the press) seems to be running with the Pets angle for WF+ in the US:
Smart. Unlike Japan, people actually have pets here.
 
Jan 23, 2007
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EXGN said:
Did they give GT PSP away in Japan like they're doing in the US?
They didn't do that in either place. Only Europe can get the game for free.

EXGN said:
Also, just saw the Ninja Gaiden numbers, is that series expressly meant for Westerners? I always thought it was popular with Japanese gamers.
No, it's never been really popular in Japan. Nevertheless, I think you have to view the numbers for Sigma 2 as disappointing. It seems they're going to barely outsell the first, despite a much larger installed base and more extensive promotion. (Though it must be granted that the first one released during a real drought for PS3 games.) There are definitely bigger bombs in the list, but this isn't good.
 
Mar 30, 2005
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The worst part is that NGS2's baby friendly purple mist was put in place soley to increase sales potential in Japan. What a waste. What a shame.
 
Road said:
2009-06 - Wii Sports Resort - 155,000 / 354,000
2009-10 - Wii Fit Plus - 117,300 / ?

Considering it's way cheaper, Wii just got a price drop and Wii Fit is more successful than WS, people were expecting it to perform better than WSR?
You seem to forget that WSR also came with a M+ adapter, that could be counterbalanced by the fact that WF+ is 1/2 price but still don't underestimate the Wii Play effect of free stuff
 

gerg

Member
Dec 6, 2008
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What seems nonsensical to me is why Nintendo would continue to release these types of games in the manner that they do without trying to stop their development. I think the situation might be trickier than it seems - any extra advertising and publicising costs must be weighed against the potential sales of the product, so not every under-performing stealth release may represent wasted potential. (I find it hard to believe that Captain Rainbow would have ever been deserving of high advertising budget, for example.) In any case, the situation is probably exacerbated when interest in the Wii is low, requiring a larger campaign for the same relatively average result. Here I would presume that Nintendo would be disinterested in simply sitting on the games for an extended period of time, so releasing them without much fanfare might be the least unprofitable option. I'm happy to accept that Nintendo's conservative nature may skew their priorities somewhat (such as to work against them), but I don't think it's necessarily a "shell-shocked inability to move past the errors of the past". I don't think Iwata's paralyzed out of fear in his office thinking "Whatever shall I do with these niche(ish) games my development parties have created?!"
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
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NintendosBooger said:
Nintendo needs to wisen the fuck up and buy out a struggling developer that Japan actually gives a flying fuck about.

No one over there seems to give a shit about Monolith Soft, Skip, or Brownie Brown, so cut the dead weight (ala Rare) and pick up some game developers that can make titles that sell on the Wii.
If they are struggling obviously people dont care about what they make...
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Nov 3, 2007
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gogogow said:
Xbox 360 - Ninja Gaiden 2 - FW 27,215 LTD - 49,543

PS3 - Ninja Gaiden Σ - FW 40,886 LTD - 76,095
Ninja Gaiden series is pretty much half dead in Japan , Dragon Sword on DS did very poorly too ( 4K first day , dunno about the LTD ).

Team Ninja better think to how make the series more popular ( or appeal more to Japanese gamers ) or make DOA on handheld/multiplat to increase DOA characters popularity or put them into Dynasty Warrior games or just make new IP.
 
Jul 18, 2009
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Los Angeles
Totobeni said:
Ninja Gaiden series is pretty much half dead in Japan , Dragon Sword on DS did very poorly too ( 4K first day , dunno about the LTD ).

Team Ninja better think to how make the series more popular ( or appeal more to Japanese gamers ) or make DOA on handheld/multiplat to increase DOA characters popularity or put them into Dynasty Warrior games or just make new IP.
With Itagaki now gone from Tecmo expect the next DOA/Gaiden game to be multiplat.
 
Road said:
(First day / First week)
2006-11 - Wii Sports - ? / 177,000
2007-12 - Wii Fit - ? / 254,000 (2 days, Saturday release)
2009-06 - Wii Sports Resort - 155,000 / 354,000
2009-10 - Wii Fit Plus - 117,300 / ?

Considering it's way cheaper, Wii just got a price drop and Wii Fit is more successful than WS, people were expecting it to perform better than WSR?

Of course, it can still top it when the week ends. We'll have to wait.
Point taken - and thanks for finding the numbers here.

That said, I personally wasn't expecting this to be the kind of game/title that people would run out and buy on the first day - hell, even the first week. I think it's going to sell a shitload, of course, but I think it's going to happen over time.

As such, I don't think it matters if it beats WSR's first-day or first-week numbers. They're completely different situations as far as I'm concerned (WSR is quite different from the original WS and comes with an accessory while WF+ is more of an upgrade of its predessor).
 
Dec 5, 2008
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Totobeni said:
Ninja Gaiden series is pretty much half dead in Japan , Dragon Sword on DS did very poorly too ( 4K first day , dunno about the LTD ).

Team Ninja better think to how make the series more popular ( or appeal more to Japanese gamers ) or make DOA on handheld/multiplat to increase DOA characters popularity or put them into Dynasty Warrior games or just make new IP.
Ninja Gaiden 2 sold over a million world wide on just the 360, I think Ninja Gaiden 3 on PS360 will do just fine.

Dead or Alive 4 also sold over a million on just the 360, Dead or Alive 5 on both platforms should do even better.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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soryy if I am behind or something but

did Koei port the PSP game of DW: Strikeforce to the HD consoles?

did Koei port the PSP game of DW: Strikeforce to the HD consoles?

the hell.........

I am dizzy, i need to lie down.
 
Jan 23, 2007
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faridmon said:
soryy if I am behind or something but

did Koei port the PSP game of DW: Strikeforce to the HD consoles?

did Koei port the PSP game of DW: Strikeforce to the HD consoles?

the hell.........

I am dizzy, i need to lie down.
Yeah, but to be fair they already had a Musou engine and assets for the HD machines. Adding a few new characters and a different campaign aren't a huge investment. It's not like they took PSP assets and upscaled them.

Koei have always been about inventing new stone-blood-squeezing strategies.
 
Apr 18, 2005
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JoshuaJSlone said:
Ys 7 (1519) has by far the best Ys opening within the scope of Garaph. However, it also seems to be the only charting non-remake.
http://garaph.info/softwareindividual.php//gid/2126

ThanosOTitan said:
Without knowing what is sold through PSN I don't think we can call it a Bomb just yet.
Yeah! PSPGo isn't out yet, and it's already started!

Busaiku said:
What really surprises me is the really poor performance of the new Hot Shots game.
It's not golf, but it's still doing much worse than I'd have expected.

Though I wouldn't think there was much hype going into it.


Totobeni said:
Dragon Sword on DS did very poorly too ( 4K first day , dunno about the LTD ).
6K FW, 22K LTD

Opiate said:
Inazuma Eleven sold 41k first week, did it not?

And the sequel has sold 170k first day?
Layton 1 sold 120K FW, Layton 2 308K, and Layton 3 361K, and those sequels didn't have duel versions.
 
Apr 5, 2006
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donny2112 said:
Layton 1 sold 120K FW, Layton 2 308K, and Layton 3 361K, and those sequels didn't have duel versions.
Unlike the Layton games however, it's pretty much a given that the Inazuma Eleven 2 games will vastly outdo their predecessor.
It's possible it can do it by next week, if it just about sells out.

Of course that's mostly due to the lower numbers for the series so far, but I think it's possible that each version can surpass the original.