Support NeoGAF

[Piichan]

I wish Nintendo would get in on the VR hype and port these games to VR.

 

[Madao]

Such a magical experience Metroid Prime was.

God dammit Nintendo, why wont you give us another 3d Metroid by Retro Studios

easy.

prime 2 and 3 combined sold less than 1.

it's people's fault they decided to stop making them.

Are you sure? The Digital Foudery video said that there isn't a difference.

they didn't look hard enough.

this video has the wii version clips later so you have to jump around in the video but you can see the most noticeable missing effects.

 

[rjc571]

easy.

prime 2 and 3 combined sold less than 1.

it's people's fault they decided to stop making them.



they didn't look hard enough.

this video has the wii version clips later so you have to jump around in the video but you can see the most noticeable missing effects.

The biggest difference I noticed in that comparison is that the Wii version lets you jump in morph ball mode and the GC version does not.

 

[v1oz]

Funny you started this thread. Just played through it again.....in VR!!!!


It really is an amazing game and after playing through it in VR, Ive come to realize its also one of the best VR games Ive ever played. Even the lock on system, which by today's standards are a little outdated, work really well. Some of the details Retro put in it are just nuts. For instance, when you are exploring the wrecked ship under water, there is a spot inside before a door where you can see air that got caught inside. A nice detail for sure, but it is absolutely something I would never have noticed without the ability to free look as easily as you can in VR. Dont even get me started on the music.

It's not perfect by any stretch but I highly recommend playing in in VR if you can. It's like playing it the first time.

I am curious why you think the lock on system is outdated? Even at the time lock on controls were not standard for this type of game, the standard was to use the right stick (or c buttons) for aiming controls, just as it is today.

This dual control method was standardised by Turok Dinosaur Hunter 1997 on the N64. And not by Halo like so many people think.

 

[v1oz]

easy.

prime 2 and 3 combined sold less than 1.

it's people's fault they decided to stop making them.

Metroid has always been a niche game. And to be honest the gameplay in Prime was too hardcore to appeal to the Halo and COD audience. All the Metroid games have sold below expectations that includes Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Sales in North America were better compared to the rest of the world, but in Japan they have always been outright dismal. That's why Nintendo tried to go into a new direction with Other M to make it more appealing to the home market. But they only ended up alienating hardcore fans.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Metroid Prime 1 is still my favorite game of all time. I can appreciate both the GC and Wii versions. I really need to do a play through of this again soon. I usually do a full run through like every other year.

 

[Paltheos]

Motion controls ruin the first 2 games unfortunately.

Motion controls don't ruin the games, removing the fun tricks that let you sequence break do!

 

[Chronology]

Funny you started this thread. Just played through it again.....in VR!!!!


It really is an amazing game and after playing through it in VR, Ive come to realize its also one of the best VR games Ive ever played. Even the lock on system, which by today's standards are a little outdated, work really well. Some of the details Retro put in it are just nuts. For instance, when you are exploring the wrecked ship under water, there is a spot inside before a door where you can see air that got caught inside. A nice detail for sure, but it is absolutely something I would never have noticed without the ability to free look as easily as you can in VR. Dont even get me started on the music.

It's not perfect by any stretch but I highly recommend playing in in VR if you can. It's like playing it the first time.

Do you have any guides or tips on how to get this working? I managed to get VR dolphin working with the gamecube version of the game, but right now I still have to turn Samus with the analog stick, which feels really disorienting. Do you know if there's a way around this?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I personally think that the Prime games could use an updated control scheme if they ever make one again.

I mean, the Wii rerelease has one of the best shooter control schemes to ever exist on a console. Although Is suppose you could make a valid argument that this was a rerelease and is thus a lot less old.

 

[Magicpaint]

Wii version of Prime 1 and 2 will always be inferior because they lack the snazzy, awesome title screens of the originals.

Okay...I also prefer lock on (particularly for Prime 1) control scheme to pointer controls.

 

[Litri]

One of the best videogames ever, simple as that.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

I love all 3, but Metroid Prime 2 is underrated for it's creation of a brand new world and species. The lore is always intensely interesting to me. I wish we could learn even more about the Luminoth and other species that roamed the stars as the Chozo did.

Also the Dark Suit is one of the best designs of a varia suit. It's a radical change from any prior suits in quite a while. I feel like it's cold and dark design really reflects how one might go into battle wearing camo to hide from enemies, as the suit wasn't perfect at shielding Samus or the Luminoth who created it, so it instead opts for hiding in plain site by blending into the dark alternate world of Aether. It has a much more mechanical and utilitarian appearance as opposed to the decadence of the light suit.
The light suit is the pinnacle of Luminoth technology and a true machine of war, it stands brightly against the background of Dark Aether as a sign that who wields it does not fear the darkness, and that the darkness should instead fear them.

Once I'm no longer juniored, I plan on writing a big write-up on Metroid Prime 2, because I feel it just doesn't get the credit it deserves.

It also had zany Multiplayer, I get it wasn't the best, but the sheer amount of ways to fight (including the dreaded death ball) made it super fun for me and friends.

 

[Diablohead]

The last time I played prime it was on the Wii with the new controls but since then I pulled my cube out of storage, found my memory card and bought another pal copy of prime, once I clean the controller out to fix a sticky sholder button i'm due another play on original hardware which is how I honestly prefer the game.

 

[Magicpaint]

I agree that Prime 2 is really underappreciated but I can also see why: it's a very harsh game (quite literally for a while) and far less accessible than the others. Everything is bigger, more complex, more twisted, more difficult. I absolutely love it, and it was exactly what I hoped for in a sequel at the time. It does have a couple of niggles though; over-reliance on key hunting for one and the ammo system which felt a bit restrictive. Dark Aether also didn't feel as great to explore as the Light version. It does have the best location in any game ever though -- the glorious Sanctuary Fortress.

 

[K' Dash]

I love all 3, but Metroid Prime 2 is underrated for it's creation of a brand new world and species. The lore is always intensely interesting to me. I wish we could learn even more about the Luminoth and other species that roamed the stars as the Chozo did.

Also the Dark Suit is one of the best designs of a varia suit. It's a radical change from any prior suits in quite a while. I feel like it's cold and dark design really reflects how one might go into battle wearing camo to hide from enemies, as the suit wasn't perfect at shielding Samus or the Luminoth who created it, so it instead opts for hiding in plain site by blending into the dark alternate world of Aether. It has a much more mechanical and utilitarian appearance as opposed to the decadence of the light suit.
The light suit is the pinnacle of Luminoth technology and a true machine of war, it stands brightly against the background of Dark Aether as a sign that who wields it does not fear the darkness, and that the darkness should instead fear them.

Once I'm no longer juniored, I plan on writing a big write-up on Metroid Prime 2, because I feel it just doesn't get the credit it deserves.

It also had zany Multiplayer, I get it wasn't the best, but the sheer amount of ways to fight (including the dreaded death ball) made it super fun for me and friends.

You should take a look a Mama Robotniks threads, you'll be reading for hours.

Also, I'm in the Echoes team, it is the Superior Prime Game.

Edit: Enjoy Bro http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471418&page=2

Actually, ya'll should read it and comment:

Volume 1 : Metroid Prime.

Volume 2 : Metroid Prime 1.5 and the Metroid 2 Remake.

Volume 3 : Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.

Volume 4 : Metroid Prime 3 Corruption.

Volume 5 : Metroid Prime Hunters and ”Toon Metroid".

A big thank you to Mama Robotnik for all this awesome write up.

 

[LordKasual]

Soulsborne does great with world building through gameplay

Metroid Prime did it first and did it better with the Scan Visor

you heard it from me first

 

[The Xtortionist]

Wii version of Prime 1 and 2 will always be inferior because they lack the snazzy, awesome title screens of the originals.

Okay...I also prefer lock on (particularly for Prime 1) control scheme to pointer controls.

In Trilogy there's an option to disable free aiming when locked on.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

You should take a look a Mama Robotniks threads, you'll be reading for hours.

Also, I'm in the Echoes team, it is the Superior Prime Game.

Edit: Enjoy Bro http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471418&page=2

Actually, ya'll should read it and comment:

Volume 1 : Metroid Prime.

Volume 2 : Metroid Prime 1.5 and the Metroid 2 Remake.

Volume 3 : Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.

Volume 4 : Metroid Prime 3 Corruption.

Volume 5 : Metroid Prime Hunters and “Toon Metroid".

A big thank you to Mama Robotnik for all this awesome write up.

I'm actually already familiar with her threads and read them before. It was a good quick reread though.
"Samus goes apeshit" lmao


What's sad, is Retro thought the scan visor was boring.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16389

He continued, "And then there’s the scan visor. A lot of people might debate if the inclusion was a good thing. However, we're pretty late in development and Nintendo kept saying ‘there’s something missing.’ And they delivered us the concept of the scan visor, and though it was late in development, we placed one artist and one programmer just on the scan visor and made sure it was completed. Because this was another aspect that Nintendo felt was critical to the project."

However, Kelbaugh admits the team found the scan visor concept boring at the time. "In the US even now people hate scanning, but it’s popular in Japan," he said. "So we tried to make it more ‘collectable’ and more informative in terms of describing how to beat enemies, etc. as we went along.”

It was my favorite part of the game! I loved learning so much about the world, which again, is why 2 was my favorite.

 

[bomblord1]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228802456&postcount=1461

From the emulator screenshot thread. Even just bumping up the res makes it look amazing.

Add a bit of post processing and Wow

 

[nkarafo]

^
It's the geometry detail that makes this game shine. You never see large flat surfaces or empty walls. Everything has enough complexity to look interesting. It can be cracks, pipes, cables, metal frames, whatever. But at the same time it's done tastefully, it's not just random spikes on top of spikes Square style.

 

[mattwhite924]

^
It's the geometry detail that makes this game shine. You never see large flat surfaces or empty walls. Everything has enough complexity to look interesting. It can be cracks, pipes, cables, metal frames, whatever. But at the same time it's done tastefully, it's not just random spikes on top of spikes Square style.

Yep, the geometry is what blew me away when it came out. I didn't realize just how crazy it was until I saw the DFRetro with the wireframe bit, and then it hit me even more when he showed Halo in wireframe.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

...Retro was still unproven and going with an FP perspective seemed like a terrible choice at the time... somehow the planets aligned and what we got is one of the best games ever made the sheer amount of polish is incredible...

...Outside of Prime and the original most metroids are high quality but low (compared to Zelda/Mario) selling games. Unlike these series, Metroid also has a hard time moving hardware sales...

Use this thread for Nintendo sales. I gathered up all the games with "Metroid" in the title that have sold at least a million and ended up with this... So only four games in this series failed to pass the 1 million mark. It's rather unfortunate how Zero Mission seemingly couldn't do the job. MP Pinball is just a throw away pinball game with Metroid slapped onto it and Other M/Federation Force speak for themselves, but ZM really deserved better.

God dammit Nintendo, why wont you give us another 3d Metroid by Retro Studios

easy. prime 2 and 3 combined sold less than 1. it's people's fault they decided to stop making them...

I agree that Prime 2 is really underappreciated but I can also see why: it's a very harsh game (quite literally for a while) and far less accessible than the others. Everything is bigger, more complex, more twisted, more difficult. I absolutely love it, and it was exactly what I hoped for in a sequel at the time...

...What's sad, is Retro thought the scan visor was boring.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16389

He continued, "And then there's the scan visor. A lot of people might debate if the inclusion was a good thing. However, we're pretty late in development and Nintendo kept saying ‘there's something missing.' And they delivered us the concept of the scan visor, and though it was late in development, we placed one artist and one programmer just on the scan visor and made sure it was completed. Because this was another aspect that Nintendo felt was critical to the project." However, Kelbaugh admits the team found the scan visor concept boring at the time. "In the US even now people hate scanning, but it's popular in Japan," he said. "So we tried to make it more ‘collectable' and more informative in terms of describing how to beat enemies, etc. as we went along."

It was my favorite part of the game! I loved learning so much about the world, which again, is why 2 was my favorite.

Metroid has always been a niche game. And to be honest the gameplay in Prime was too hardcore to appeal to the Halo and COD audience.

All the Metroid games have sold below expectations that includes Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Sales in North America were better compared to the rest of the world, but in Japan they have always been outright dismal. That's why Nintendo tried to go into a new direction with Other M to make it more appealing to the home market. But they only ended up alienating hardcore fans.

Just to illustrate how folks at Nintendo think about these issues -- (1) accessibility, (2) sales, (3) the challenge for the player of navigation/exploration in 3D worlds, (4) the challenge for Nintendo of trying to increase, within the game-playing public, the level of appreciation for 'searching' & exploration styles of gameplay -- note what they have said about the development of the ‘mainline' 3D Mario games.

A lot of similar themes:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...r-and-advances
"We're always thinking, is there a middle ground where people who do enjoy the 3D worlds of Galaxy and those who enjoy New Super Mario Bros. can both enjoy it? We're always looking at those opportunities," [Miyamoto] added. The recent Super Mario 3D Land for 3DS and 3D World for Wii U are examples of this middle ground. Both titles feature 3D environments but still do not offer the free-roaming levels of Galaxy, or earlier titles such as Mario Sunshine and Mario 64. "On the other hand, me and [Yoshiaki] Koizumi-san, director of Galaxy, are always looking to challenge Galaxy and do another 3D action title," Miyamoto continued...

The number of Nintendo fans that have picked up 3D paint shooter Splatoon will also help increase the number of players that are used to controlling a 3D camera, Miyamoto added, and should help the next 3D Mario find a wider audience. The wider audience of the 2D side-scrolling Mario titles is reflected in the fact that New Super Mario Bros. titles have sold far more than the Galaxy games. New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold 29.3m units, for example, more than double that of Super Mario Galaxy's 12.5m and Galaxy 2's 7.4m...

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interv...io-3d-land/1/0
Koizumi: Early on [in the development of Super Mario 3D Land], we established the theme of making a 3D Super Mario game that would be close to 2D so that anyone could play. One big difference between 2D and 3D is the camera. We made adjustments as we went to the parallel-track camera we used in Super Mario Galaxy 2 so it would be easy to play... This time, we were putting aside the game element we carried on since Super Mario 64 of searching [exploration] and were trying to reconstruct the game with the original Super Mario elements. I think perhaps that is why Tezuka-san couldn't help but feel as if it flowed like a 2D Super Mario game...

Miyamoto: ...It was satisfying how, once we had corrected Mario's movement like that from the point of view of the players, it felt more like 2D Super Mario than 3D Super Mario. That's why Super Mario 3D Land is a 2D Super Mario-like 3D game. I think we can do a lot with that in the future... it isn't exactly wrong to say, "Super Mario in 3D is difficult, so we made an introduction that is like 2D Super Mario," but that isn't quite true—it's just that not everyone is used to it yet...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sh...terview?page=3
On the way to our meeting I share a lift with Minegawa, who asks: "Don't you think it's too difficult?" laying bare a nervousness within a company which has focused so hard in recent years on attracting new audiences with inclusive experiences. Speaking to its creator, I'm convinced Galaxy 2 is in part a deliberate offering to Nintendo's core fans, particularly those who feel part of a jilted generation, cast aside for the Wii wrinklies and DS tweens. "For novice players it might feel that it's a little bit challenging in the first level," Miyamoto acknowledges. "They might find the difficulty level somewhat higher than they expect. For people who already completed Mario Galaxy 1 I think it's going to be a quite challenging game experience."

"Having said that, we've been putting so much energy into controlling Mario in [3D] and we've been trying to make it as easy as possible, so I hope as many people as possible will try it. Even though it may be quite challenging [for novices], as long as they can get to grips with it it'll be a very enjoyable game and that might pave the way for them to appreciate the future 3D games as well."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-with-miyamoto
"Super Mario 64 was a key turning point in the history of Super Mario," explains Miyamoto (before adding, with typical modesty: "[Mario 64] was a good game but we were not quite able to achieve something that was both fun and easy for both beginners and advanced players.") Miyamoto admits that the Super Mario Galaxy games, which tried to find a better balance for novice and expert, still skewed towards the latter kind of player. "But with Super Mario 3D Land we found the spirit of the original games which were easy for beginners but allowed for advanced play," he says, "all within the 3D environment."

https://www.wired.com/2007/07/e3-interview-ni
Miyamoto: We've kind of had this idea for a long time, that we wanted to, from the very beginning, have it be something that everyone can play. And the core idea, actually, in terms of the gravity and running around on different spheres, were things that we were experimenting with back when we were working on Mario 128, and the 100 Marios demo, immediately after Mario 64. A lot of it was ideas that we've had for a long time. The main advantage of playing on globes or spheres rather than a big open 3D space is that the camera becomes less of an issue, to always see what you're doing. It's much easier for people who have a hard time with 3D space to navigate...

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sup.../1100-6446935/
"So we've been making Mario games for over 30 years, and through that process, we've made changes to the games. Some games tended to be a little bit harder, and a little bit harder to play, and then so we teeter back to make it accessible to all kinds of gamers, and then we go back the other way," Miyamoto explained. "It's been kind of a give and take in that way." Some of the Mario games that followed the Galaxy series, including Super Mario Maker and Super Mario Run, were "casual games" in a way, Miyamoto said. But with Odyssey, Miyamoto said Nintendo "wanted to make it a little more on the core side, something that people who like action games can really get into."

Some interesting comparisons/contrasts could be drawn with the paths taken by other franchises (see: one / two / three):

...Look, Crystal Dynamics clearly wanted a bigger audience after the last Tomb Raider games. They looked at Uncharted and found a model of least resistance in game design that was accessible for everyone. No one ever gets stuck in Uncharted like you would in an early Tomb Raider game. People like even more combat and action taking a majority of the game. Platforming, people aren't fans of 3D platformers anymore. So why bring back skill when the trend was for a more automated experience? They were very smart and fit right into the risk-averse trends, and look they got 6 million copies sold. But the original Tomb Raider (1996) sold 7 million copies (video), think about that in context to today. They can afford to get more old-school players back...

...People never believe me... but the only game that has ever come close to the amount of genuine fear the Soulsborne games can instill in me have been the original Tomb Raider games.

...Do you think a Tomb Raider that is actually challenging, in a way that is similar to the older TR games, could find commercial and/or critical success on the level of Soulsborne, if it were done really well?

I am not so sure. I think part of the Soulsborne appeal is that you fight against actual adversaries which makes the whole challenge/difficulty angle far easier to sell to people. Communicating that just the navigation of an obstacle course (=level) in and of itself is that challenging, that the level is the adversary, I think that's more difficult. That being said, I have no idea how big the market for these kinds of games is today, how many people there are out there who would buy and enjoy a classic TR-style game. At the end of the day, I feel like it really depends on marketing. You pump enough marketing dollars into a game and it's almost guaranteed to be a success (if it's half-decent, though sometimes even if it's not), you get stingy on the marketing and even a great game can end up being a flop.

"They shouldn't make games like this [Dark Souls]" has been around longer and is a more widespread sentiment... The sentiment is institutional even, all the way back to Sony's decision not to publish [Demon's Souls] in the West, and [From Software's] recounting [of the secrecy that was necessary] in regards to the game's difficulty level while developing it. I'd say [there is] resistance to the very idea of these games existing...

 

[blu]

^
It's the geometry detail that makes this game shine. You never see large flat surfaces or empty walls. Everything has enough complexity to look interesting. It can be cracks, pipes, cables, metal frames, whatever. But at the same time it's done tastefully, it's not just random spikes on top of spikes Square style.

Yep, the geometry is what blew me away when it came out. I didn't realize just how crazy it was until I saw the DFRetro with the wireframe bit, and then it hit me even more when he showed Halo in wireframe.

Retro went even more bananas with geometry in prime - you had such amazing detail there, sometimes hidden behind some glass or semi-translucent wall, that perhaps 1% of the players would ever see.

A good part of the reason their artist could go to such lengths was retro's engine which had a geometry compression feature which Flipper had in its arsenal, which coupled with the DMA-from-cache (a feature later also adopted by xb360) and the write-gather pipe capabilities streamlined CPU->GPU pipelining to amazing levels, allowing things literally unseen on such level of hw before.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Man I remember everyone being scared that Metroid had turned into a first-person shooter in the hand of Texans or something.

And it turned out wonderfully. Might be in my top 10 of all time.

 

[dogen]

A good part of the reason their artist could go to such lengths was retro's engine which had a geometry compression feature which Flipper had in its arsenal, which coupled with the DMA-from-cache (a feature later also adopted by xb360) and the write-gather pipe capabilities streamlined CPU->GPU pipelining to amazing levels, allowing things literally unseen on such level of hw before.

Had to look up what you were talking about. I get the geometry, or vertex compression feature, but can you explain about the DMA from cache and write-gather pipe stuff?

Are they used to send geometry data to the GPU faster?

And were these things used by most/all gamecube games or a select few? Factor 5 I suppose would be included?

 

[Ushojax]

Metroid games released in the 2000s:

Metroid Fusion (2002, GBA)
Metroid Prime (2002, GCN)
Metroid Zero Mission (2004, GBA)
Metroid Prime 2 Echoes (2004, GCN)
Metroid Prime Pinball (2005, DS)
Metroid Prime Hunters (2006, DS)
Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (2007, Wii)
Metroid Prime Trilogy (2009, Wii)

Metroid games released in the 2010s:

Metroid Other M (2010, Wii)
Metroid Prime Federation Force (2016, 3DS)

Someone wanna explain to me why this has to happen?

It's quite straightforward. Metroid Other M was an abominable game, damaged the Metroid brand, sold like shit and with Retro busy with DK and Mario Kart, Nintendo put the franchise on ice.

 

[Version 3.0]

Motion controls make the games way better.

Pointer controls make the games better...maybe. That's a valid argument, at least. The IR pointer is awesome.

Motion controls blew. Well, waggle jump was okay.

Do you have any guides or tips on how to get this working? I managed to get VR dolphin working with the gamecube version of the game, but right now I still have to turn Samus with the analog stick, which feels really disorienting. Do you know if there's a way around this?

I'd love to find a guide of some sort, too. Just like RE4 in Dolphin VR, Metroid Prime worked for me, but had enough issues that I couldn't really play through it.

 

[mutsu]

Played it for maybe 5 hours but still haven't had a chance to complete the game. Hope it lands on Switch VC soon since nowadays handheld is pretty much the only place I can spend long hours playing games on.

 

[shiyrley]

For people who complain about the Wii version controls: There IS an option in the options menu to make the lock-on act like on the GameCube version (aka you can't move the crosshair at all while locking on, it's fixed on the enemy, just like on the GameCube) so pointing with IR becomes only possible when not locking on. I personally play with this option disabled though, so I have IR controls all the time, but it's there. However I think it's in Prime 1's options menu rather than the Trilogy itself options menu. But I'm 100% sure the option exists.

 

[Meesh]

Love the Prime games, they were all brilliant. I know it's not a popular sentiment but I really would love a new Metroid Prime... wouldn't even have to be Retro that does it. I just want to explore planets in first person as Samus in an all new story, new enemies...dear God Nintendo please!!!

 

[rjc571]

Pointer controls make the games better...maybe. That's a valid argument, at least. The IR pointer is awesome.

Motion controls blew. Well, waggle jump was okay.

You didn't like using the nunchuk to grapple? You, sir, have no soul.

 

[Version 3.0]

You didn't like using the nunchuk to grapple? You, sir, have no soul.

You might be on to something. No soul = it doesn't fucking work. Maybe they shouldn't require a soul for it to function correctly, then we could all enjoy the game.

 

[Barrow Roll]

You might be on to something. No soul = it doesn't fucking work. Maybe they shouldn't require a soul for it to function correctly, then we could all enjoy the game.

The whole "motion controls don't work" narrative never ceases to amaze me. How does it work consistently for one group of people and not the other? Is half the population playing with busted hardware?

Put me in the camp of "they work" and liking Corruptions motion controls. Grapple Lasso was awesome. And I also enjoyed the gimmicky pulling, twisting, and pushing of switches and energy cells.

 

[rjc571]

You might be on to something. No soul = it doesn't fucking work. Maybe they shouldn't require a soul for it to function correctly, then we could all enjoy the game.

I used the grapple hundreds of times and it never once failed to work for me. I'm sorry that the act of thrusting your arm forward was too much for you to handle.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

I will never understand why the motion controls are so universally praised. They felt so uncomfortable on the wrists during long sessions, visor/beam changing is a chore, and they had to remove graphical effects to accommodate the controls. The Gamecube controller is so much more comfortable for the type of game Prime is anyways. I just don't get it.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I will never understand why the motion controls are so universally praised. They felt so uncomfortable on the wrists during long sessions, visor/beam changing is a chore, and they had to remove graphical effects to accommodate the controls. The Gamecube controller is so much more comfortable for the type of game Prime is anyways. I just don't get it.

I'm sorry to hear about your arthritis.

 

[dogen]

I'm sorry to hear about your arthritis.

It's not too hard to accept that people like different things is it?

I tried prime 3 and was also turned off by the controls. And I don't have arthritis, not even close. I've played FPSes highly competently on pc, and I'm also a decent guitar player. I have no problem moving my hands around. If I had to say I have any strengths, motor control would be one of them.

I think, if anything, this makes me prefer the traditional control scheme, as all these extraneous movements just feel inefficient. Why can't I just press a button? Why can't I just press gamecube buttons? Those feel great.

Metroid Prime worked perfectly with lock on, and I rarely felt like I didn't have enough accuracy to play.

 

[Version 3.0]

The whole "motion controls don't work" narrative never ceases to amaze me. How does it work consistently for one group of people and not the other? Is half the population playing with busted hardware?

It's no great mystery. The hardware was cheap and somewhat experimental, the software was pretty new. Most motion controls worked quite well for me. Wii Sports, for example, worked almost flawlessly. But I saw it fail dramatically for others. My girlfriend, for one. She couldn't putt in Golf to save her life. It's a simple, small, right-left pendulum motion. I'd do it, it would work. She'd do the exact same thing, as far as humanly possible - right, left. And her Mii would move its club right, twice, away from the ball. It was uncanny.

Who knows, maybe the grapple crap would work for her, if she were inclined to play Metroid.

I used the grapple hundreds of times and it never once failed to work for me. I'm sorry that the act of thrusting your arm forward was too much for you to handle.

I'm sorry that Prime 3's motion controls not working for me is such threat to your worldview that you have to insult me over it.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I will never understand why the motion controls are so universally praised. They felt so uncomfortable on the wrists during long sessions, visor/beam changing is a chore, and they had to remove graphical effects to accommodate the controls. The Gamecube controller is so much more comfortable for the type of game Prime is anyways. I just don't get it.

IR aiming speeds up the game flow considerably. I usually play with the Wii remote resting on my lap. You can increase the aiming sensitivity so only small movements are needed to change direction. It's hardly taxing.

 

[blu]

Had to look up what you were talking about. I get the geometry, or vertex compression feature, but can you explain about the DMA from cache and write-gather pipe stuff?

Are they used to send geometry data to the GPU faster?

And were these things used by most/all gamecube games or a select few? Factor 5 I suppose would be included?

Not only much faster, but also in an asynchronous (non-blocking for either party) manner.

The DMA-from-cache constituted a CPU cache partitioning scheme, where half the L1 D$ would be used as normal by the CPU, while the other half would be in 'locked down' mode, and its contents would be DMA'd right to the GPU vertex frontend. That path constitutes the fastest possible solution for all kinds of CPU-generated/touched geometry that need to reach the GPU without ever travelling further than CPU's L1 in the memory subsystem.

The write-gather pipe was a more complex tool which allowed the CPU to instruct the GPU from where in RAM to collect its vertex streams, with some levels of indirection, at that, but my memory is getting hazy here, so don't quote me on that.

Here's a quick synopsis of all those features: http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc13/2_Mon/06ibm-gekko.pdf

Re who used the compressed geom feature, I really have no info about Factor 5, but I know Retro did it for sure from reading an interview with them back then. They themselves were fairly fond of that feature, and (citing from memory) they were claiming something like 2-3x higher geometric complexities than most other titles on the system.

 

[Version 3.0]

Not only much faster, but also in an asynchronous (non-blocking for either party) manner.

The DMA-from-cache constituted a CPU cache partitioning scheme, where half the L1 D$ would be used as normal by the CPU, while the other half would be in 'locked down' mode, and its contents would be DMA'd right to the GPU vertex frontend. That path constitutes the fastest possible solution for all kinds of CPU-generated/touched geometry that need to reach the GPU without ever travelling further than CPU's L1 in the memory subsystem.

The write-gather pipe was a more complex tool which allowed the CPU to instruct the GPU from where in RAM to collect its vertex streams, with some levels of indirection, at that, but my memory is getting hazy here, so don't quote me on that.

Here's a quick synopsis of all those features: http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc13/2_Mon/06ibm-gekko.pdf

Re who used the compressed geom feature, I really have no info about Factor 5, but I know Retro did it for sure from reading an interview with them back then. They themselves were fairly fond of that feature, and (citing from memory) they were claiming something like 2-3x higher geometric complexities than most other titles on the system.

That's awesome. I've always loved that everything in Metroid Prime is made of geometry, and especially that everything is individually modeled, rather than copy/pasted trees and rocks all over the place.

I never thought that was due to any specialized hardware. I just figured it was due to talent and hard work. I'm still sure that was the case, but it's fascinating to see that the Gamecube's architecture enabled their efforts like that.

 

[dogen]

Not only much faster, but also in an asynchronous (non-blocking for either party) manner.

The DMA-from-cache constituted a CPU cache partitioning scheme, where half the L1 D$ would be used as normal by the CPU, while the other half would be in 'locked down' mode, and its contents would be DMA'd right to the GPU vertex frontend. That path constitutes the fastest possible solution for all kinds of CPU-generated/touched geometry that need to reach the GPU without ever travelling further than CPU's L1 in the memory subsystem.

The write-gather pipe was a more complex tool which allowed the CPU to instruct the GPU from where in RAM to collect its vertex streams, with some levels of indirection, at that, but my memory is getting hazy here, so don't quote me on that.

Here's a quick synopsis of all those features: http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc13/2_Mon/06ibm-gekko.pdf

Re who used the compressed geom feature, I really have no info about Factor 5, but I know Retro did it for sure from reading an interview with them back then. They themselves were fairly fond of that feature, and (citing from memory) they were claiming something like 2-3x higher geometric complexities than most other titles on the system.

Huh, sounds pretty powerful.

That's interesting they said 2-3x higher than most games. If dolphin's statistics are accurate the rogue leader games are pushing even higher numbers.

 

[mattwhite924]

Huh, sounds pretty powerful.

That's interesting they said 2-3x higher than most games. If dolphin's statistics are accurate the rogue leader games are pushing even higher numbers.

I've heard several times that Rogue Squadron 3 pushed the most polys on-screen at once of any game that gen. However I have no idea where in the game that might be, or what other games might get close. Seems like the kind of claim that's easy to make but hard to prove, however I wouldn't be surprised if Factor 5 pulled it off.

 

[Spladam]

I would probably put Prime in my top ten. I purchased it the second day it was out, and put a good 6 hours into it on the first play. That week with Prime was one of the coolest video game experience I've ever had, it blew me away.

I wish we could have a VR version of Prime, but that does not seem possible anywhere in the near future. I would love an HD remaster at the very least though, the game is a bit awkward in emulation.

Metroid Prime really does hold up today though, especially graphically, a metric I often use to rate retro titles. Just played through Metal Slug X again, and wow that game is still beautiful.

I wish, like many, that Nintendo would announce a new Metroid game for the switch, that would make the system a must buy for me. As it stands, I'm probably gonna pick it up just to play Breath of the Wild, but not until demand decreases and the library fills up a bit. One can still hope though.

 

[Toxi]

Prime is my favorite game, but Prime 2 has my favorite moments. I don't think any video game area has matched the quality of Sanctuary Fortress.

 

[nath999]

Didn't the main series bomb in sales? When I was playing it back in the day it felt like I was the only person who knew about it.

 

[Toxi]

Didn't the main series bomb in sales? When I was playing it back in the day it felt like I was the only person who knew about it.

Not really unless you have a very loose definition of a bomb.

It just did mediocre after the first game (which sold pretty damn well).

 

[brainpann]

Do you have any guides or tips on how to get this working? I managed to get VR dolphin working with the gamecube version of the game, but right now I still have to turn Samus with the analog stick, which feels really disorienting. Do you know if there's a way around this?

I don't have any real tips that might fix your issue. The biggest thing is just getting as stable and as close to 60 fps as possible.

 

[Madao]

one thing where the GC versions of mp1 and mp2 are better than the trilogy re-release are the advanced movements of Samus. they removed a lot of that for trilogy when they put the new controls. so, even though you can aim better, Samus' movement is worse because it doesn't reach as far as it did on GC.

 

[Toxi]

one thing where the GC versions of mp1 and mp2 are better than the trilogy re-release are the advanced movements of Samus. they removed a lot of that for trilogy when they put the new controls. so, even though you can aim better, Samus' movement is worse because it doesn't reach as far as it did on GC.

Even on a basic level, you can't dash while scanning in the Wii version because Retro wanted to remove sequence breaking. That's just ridiculous.