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MGS4 review - Swedish LEVEL #26 (NO SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter Yoshichan
- Start date
SolidSnakex
Member
Klone.K said:
Oh ok, I guess i'm not a hardcore fan then.
SolidSnakex said:
Have you played every MGS games over a dozen times, researched the plot in every essay, journal written on them, researched the symbolism and mythology, spent hours pondering the thematic and philosophical themes of the games and read every Kojima interview and commentary of the games including the japanese ones? Have you read everyone of his old hideochan blog entries? Played the first two MG games?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
No silly, I have a life.Klone.K said:
frAntic_Frog
Member
come to think of it, mgs2 didnt really have as memorable characters as snake eater. only ambivalent players whose motives arent always explained or are too convoluted and muddled to really make anything of it. probably the only character that jumped out and had an impression was ocelot and his liquid hand. By contrast someone like The Boss in MGS3 was a great well defined anti-hero to Naked Snakes protagonist
frAntic_Frog
Member
you must mean mgs3 didnt have as much pretentious preaching as mgs2 did.....mgs3 still touched on philosophical stuff like honor, fate, duty, master/mother relationships, and it wasnt as contrived or forced as MGS2 wasKlone.K said:
frAntic_Frog said:
The problem with MGS3 and its thematic exploration was that
a) It repeated itself. The beginning codec conversation with the Boss is literally repeated during the ending monologue of the Boss.
b) It touched upon truly obvious issues...Enemies are relative? They change with the time? Loyalty to country vs beliefs? Really??!
c) It didn't explore the issues it raised. It touched upon them in maybe one or two minutes of dialogue and that's it... MGS2 went in depth into its issues in almost an hour of purely philosophical dialogue. It also presented these themes through its gameplay and presentation, MGS3 simply turned the page before going in depth.
The reason for this is that Kojima originally meant for the series to end with MGS2. He wanted to explore 2 issues with the series, being genes and memes. He has said in the past that he never wants to make games that don't try to educate or inspire people to think. However due to fan pressure he made MGS3 but he already explored the issues he wished to in MGS2, so the philosophy he tacked on was pretty shallow and not something well throught out or planned.
With MGS4 it seems he has been inspired to explore several new themes within the MGS universe. Hence why one review complained that the ending epilogue is a mind fuck remeniscent of MGS2's ending.
I think MGS3 was a mistake though perhaps an intended break for Kojima.
BigBoss said:
I only joined the IGN forums as an insider in the past 2 weeks and have maybe 5 posts with 2 of them being on the MGS forums.
But the consensus I have gathered, primarily from gamefaqs is that MGS2 is the favorited game in the series. Though perhaps such posts came from mgs2 defender fanboys which may skew results.
The IGN forums are quite tiny compared to the Gamefaq ones which I think are more representative, though I primarily post on PSU.
I'm not a big fan of MGS3! And I think MGS3 had some of the worst bosses ever in the series, but seriously, what are you smokin??? Why do you always have to argue? People have different preferences. Some like MGS2 some MGS3 doesn't mean the games are bad. They are both good in their "own way"....Klone.K said:
Oh and please stop talking, thank you!
Cirekiller
Member
NeoUltima said:
.
revolverjgw
Member
Klone.K said:
I've been a member of IGN since 2001, and MGS3 is definitely the more favored game there, both at the PS2/PS3 boards and the MGS board.
CommanderQueen
Banned
I'm skipping over a lot of the squabble, but MGS is considered the first stealth game. It was as revolutionary in the stealth/action genre as GTA is with the open-world action genre.
It did pioneer storytelling but also awesome gameplay mechanics. I know some people who skip through most of the codec business just to blow stuff up or hang from a tree and shoot unsuspecting guards in the head. That's saying schumpin'.
It did pioneer storytelling but also awesome gameplay mechanics. I know some people who skip through most of the codec business just to blow stuff up or hang from a tree and shoot unsuspecting guards in the head. That's saying schumpin'.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
Klone.K said:
MGS2 is my favorite game in the franchise too, but man, you really need to pull your head out of your ass. All your constant babble about philosophical themes is fucking annoying. Not everyone needs to right an essay for a game to be considered a true fan.
Christ.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I WANT TOOO FUCKUUU HIDEO KOJIMU~!
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
You must love having your tag quoted.BlueTsunami said:
brandonh83
Banned
Kittonwy said:Teh dutch. Teh dutch.
*sigh* there are only two things in this world I'm intolerant of
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Klone.K said:
How was exploring the origins of Big Boss a mistake?
Just because you weren't able to gleam anything useful from the storyline and concepts put forth, it doesn't mean the game itself didn't add anything at all to the MGS universe.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Mifune said:
My favorite part of GAF: SO SERIOUS. :lol
MiamiWesker
Member
Do you MGS2 guys honestly only play the MGS games just for the story? Cause thats all you talk about. Hey how about the actual freaking game. MGS3 is a better game than MGS2. Better gameplay mechanics, better level design, more freedom in combat, more secrets, better boss fights, better pacing, and a longer game.
Klone.K said:
You really found MGS2 intellectually stimulating? MGS2 hit you over the head with its themes just like the other two games.
MGS2 complex themes: Hey look Stillman is telling me he didn't teach Fatman the truly important things in life, again, yay. Oh here comes Emma to tell me about the digital control of information, again. Snake just told me we need to find the things important to us and pass them on to the next generation. Cool. Oh, so the entire operation was just a demonstration of the ability to control information and shape its outcome, and it did so by recreating the events of MGS for Raiden? Gee whiz, that is just so deep. All of that long winded poorly written exposition was totally necessary.
Are you one of those people that think the writing in MGS2 is purposely bad? Those supposedly complex themes are shallow and do not elevate the story like you seem to think. Do you read any non-MGS literature? Might be more intellectually stimulating than researching the symbolism in the MGS games. MGS symbolism and story tends to be grab bag of shallow ideas stolen from whatever Kojima happens to be interested in at the time, jammed into the games in a rather heavy-handed way. The themes make a interesting background for the games but certainly don't stand up without the gameplay or action-packed cutscenes.
Klone.K said:
If story is so important to you why would a true fan need to have played the first two MG games? Certainly not for story, characters or complex themes. So maybe you are just trying to be elitist for the sake of it? Here I can make up a stupid, absurd, and arbitrary set of standards for the truly hardcore MGS fan as well:
Have you beaten every MGS game with the highest ranking, beaten every VR mission with a first place ranking, watched every speedrun, performed your own speedruns? Played through MGS GB and Snakes Revenge? Have you figured out how many licks it takes to get the center of a tootsie pop?
Only if you have done all of the above are you a true super-duper hardcore MG fan. Anything less and you're just another no nothing casual gamer.
Or anyone who cares about the story close as much or more than the gameplay in MGS is not a hardcore fan and should look for a different medium that actually prioritized story.
Why would they put so much effort in to the gameplay and boss fights if they aren't important to KP? Why not just dump the gameplay altogether in that case? Why release all these VR missions, or release a new edition of a game with an improved camera but no new stories? Probably because they do find gameplay important.
MGS does things with gameplay you can't find in many other games. How many games have bosses as well thought out and innovative as Psycho Mantis, The End, or The Sorrow? How many games feature the variety of a MGS scenario? All the little details scattered around the game world that can make an area fun to explore and play through over and over again, discovering something new each time? Sure the games have been bogged down in the past with a bad camera, gimmicky mechanics, and poor controls, but the games are fun despite all that. Besides MGS2's story is actually a lot like the controls in past games; a overly complicated way of performing a simple thing.
tl,dr: Klone.K is a joke, I have too much time on my hands, and MGS is good for the variety it features more than anything. MGS may not have the best story, or best gameplay, but throw it all together and you have a really interesting series of games. Truly better than the sum of its parts.
SolidSnakex
Member
MiamiWesker said:
I don't think so. I've seen many MGS2 fans who really prefer the gameplay (and story) to the previous games. Which is fine, I mean I think MGS3 definitely has superior gameplay, but MGS2 was different so it's realistic that someone could prefer the way it played over the others.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Couldn't have said it better myself Vagrant. Nice work.
MiamiWesker
Member
SolidSnakex said:
They are all excellent games so it doesn't matter which is your favorite. I just feel there are real noticable improvements in areas of MGS3 over MGS2. My point is that the whole talk about just the story is ridiculous. MGS is far more than that.
Pop On Arrival
Banned
MGS tells my favorite story in all forms of entertainment, but that doesn't mean I only play the games for the story. I like the franchise so much because of how well it manages to blend the cinematics and gameplay together. You really can't find anything else like it anywhere, and THAT'S why it's my favorite franchise.
SolidSnakex
Member
MiamiWesker said:
I agree, I think MGS3 was really the first game in the series to take a big step into being more of an "open" gameplay experience. MGS4 apparently expands upon that in a big way.
Let's see I was 13 so.... YES!
And even today the story is very entertaining especially in the end when all the mind-raping begins. And let's not talk about the first Metal Gear Solid because I thought I had gazed upon God's face for a moment :lol
Snake Eater had a very different approach to it's story and it was the first game that actually made me think about sparing these poor sods in the middle of Russian forests. The fight with Sorrow and the conversation with Johhny really impressed me. Not too many games tell you that you've been a heartless bastard all the way from the beginning.