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Michael Pachter: Console market may collapse in the future.

For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?

Nothing.

And overall I agree. Look at the advances in PC's, phones, TV's etc. There's nothing stopping it from happening but time.

Even then it could just stay a niche market. So it may never kill off console gaming.

I mean look at PS Now, streaming games to a game console.
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?

Capitalism. No one will invest the money to get reliable high-speed internet to all parts of the country.
 
I don't think PC to phase consoles anytime soon, MS and Sony put way too much marketing on their platforms for the casual player to ignore them.
Phones in the other hand, those will kill consoles eventually. By that time MS will have all hardcore gaming under windows (on PC and Windows set-top boxes) and Sony will be streaming their games.
 
No. A console size box (or bigger) will always pack a greater punch in hardware.

The only time it happens is when the internet gets close to zero latency and games can be streamed efficiently.

Dedicated hardware has at least another 50 years IMO.
 
Taken from his latest episode.

Console software is gonna move off consoles. In the next two to three years, you're gonna have the opportunity to download to your PC and play on your TV. In the next 10 years you're gonna download to your phone and play on your TV.," he said.

What do you think?

If I wanted to play on my PC wouldn't I already have a PC (capable of playing games)? Hell, it's easy enough to play on a PC to tv already.

I have a console cause i don't want to deal with PC. And people who do already have PCs and already use them to play on tv if they want to play teh PC on tv.

As for cellphones, I could maybe see that argument for killing handheld gaming even more but I think we already are seeing the damage from cellphone. I don't think being able to play it on tv is going to do that much more than what we see already (That's just an extra nicety and honestly most handhelds could easily add in that function).

This guy apparently thinks the only reason people play consoles is to play games on TV. And not taking into account if that was true we'd already see his predictions coming true cause you already can mostly do that. This is the same kinda reasoning that thought steamboxes were competing with consoles. Basically some one with no real understanding of why console gamers prefer consoles. All he really did there is display he really has no understanding of why console gamers prefer consoles.
 
I don't think it's that far-fetched.

About a decade ago Nokia released their N-Gage 2.0 platform, which worked on a number of their phones. Sure, most of the games for it were low budget shit and looked worse than PS2 games and overall a failure, but many of the phones supported a TV-out function if you had the correct cable for it and you could use a bluetooth controller so it basically gave you a console feel to it, if you wanted it to.

By the time it's time to release a PS6 or PS7, Sony might think that phones have enough power to give a good big screen gaming experience and try something similar. And simply release a "Playstation app" for their phones, so people download the games on their phones, connect it to the TV or dock it to the TV like you do with a Switch, and then play with a bluetooth DualShock controller as you do now.
 
Truthfully, once consoles the way we know them die, I would love to see arcades reemerge (around the world) where you could go and compete in local and online esports tournaments.

It would be a natural evolution for gamers. Return to arcades albeit different and play in local and online tourneys.
 
I think the hardware argument is moot either way - ultimately the quality of the gaming experience (in addition to other factors such as accessibility and marketing) will determine success. Sony is already including PS4 games on the PS Now service, a service which does not require a console (from a technical standpoint, as it's currently limited to PS3, PS4, and PC). The main drawback to gaming on PS Now is stream quality, input lag, and a limited library. But it's safe to say that in time these issues will go away as internet technology improves and Sony expands the library.

So, let's say that in 10 years streaming games is as good as playing them from a console (objectively speaking, people will still have their preferences), yet Sony also sells a console. Looking at sales performance as we do now, using a console's install base as a primary performance indicator, it would look like the console market was decling and on the verge of death. However, assuming that the PlayStation brand continues to be successful, you will see that revenues will be maintaining or growing. That's because, at the end of the day, it's the amount of money spent on content (full games, expansions, and DLC) that will matter. Yes, there is some profit to be made from hardware sales, but most of the money will come from content and services. And other performance indicators, like daily/monthly active users and average revenue per user will be come much more important than how many units were sold.

Pachter is right when he says the way we play games is going to change, but it's not a change that threatens the type of games you know and love today.
 
10 years later we still pay attention to Pachter, after his many, many, many off predictions. He's a numbers guy, not fortune teller.
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?

Gaf in general is very hostile to the idea that generations and console wars could be ending soon. I think because those two things have basically been the cornerstones of video game forum discussion for decades.

Just look at the resistance to the suggestions in various threads that PS4 Pro and Scorpio are indicators that console hardware are going towards an iPhone-esque model and there won't be hard resets of userbases anymore.
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?

I won't say it isn't going to happen. But his reasoning for it only shows that he has no understanding of why console gamers prefer consoles. Hell, his reasoning for it is already debunked cause if the ability to play PC games on TV is why people play consoles, why are they still using consoles and not on PCs? Because you have been able to do that for a while so if his reasoning was good, we should already see that happening a lot.

It may happen but it won't because people can play PC (or cellphone) on TV.... And seeing as he is showing no real understanding of the console market and why people get consoles, I'm not going to judge if it is going to happen on his predictions that use faulty reasoning. His reasoning reminds me strongly of the people who thought steamboxes would compete with consoles... both show absolutely no understanding of why console gamers prefer consoles. Hell, I'd argue Valve wasn't trying to compete with consoles with steamboxes (but PC players were hoping it would kill consoles so you saw arguments for it). They were trying to keep from having to rely too hard on Windows.
 
AAA games will always require dedicated tech. Either by the way of consoles or PCs built for gaming. The console market only collapses if the most demanding games can be playable elsewhere with the same marketable and household convenience.

I don't doubt that the machines he's talking about will be able to play PS4 games in the future. But by then, you will need a "PS6" to play the most advanced games.
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?

Nothing but this forum has also heard it all before.

PC gaming is doomed.
Nintendo is doomed.
Motion controls are the future.
VR is the future.
Consoles are dead.
One console future.
etc etc

I wouldn't expect GAF to react well to any random declaration of a huge part of the industry collapsing without sound evidence at this point.
 
China won't ever support consoles which seems like an ominous sign considering their huge middle class (and investors want in). Studios are going to partner more and more with China and PC storefronts, like exclusives from Tencent vs Steam. Until then consoles offer another level of convenience and content
 
Lol, like US internet infrastructure is ever going to be able to handle that. Not to mention at 4K resolution. Data caps? Ahahaha. Latency. Ha.

I'm sure it will be theoretically possible... just not commercially possible.
 
Capitalism. No one will invest the money to get reliable high-speed internet to all parts of the country.

Just distance and the speed of light even with high speed, distance creates lag in transmission.

Unless of course we get data centres for streaming spread across the world in major cities....

But I doubt it.
 
I had a MHL cable for my Galaxy S3 and that could play N64 games on my TV (IIRC) using a Bluetooth controller. That was years ago. I set it up once and never used it again.

MHL was basically a workaround and re-implements HDMI on the pins. USB2 by itself doesn't have the bandwidth for full HD video without massive artifacty compression. USB3 technically does but would require active processing by both devices to enable USB3 video/audio.

It was also why Thunderbolt was both awesome but also expensive and died, because every Thunderbolt port on a motherboard or card was required to support being a display port.
 
I guess I find it hard to believe TVs are ever going to have hardware inside that is on par with what a then-current console could do. Most customers don't want to pay 200-300 extra on their TV for some hardware they'll never use.

Yep. Most TVs have barely adequate processors for simple browsing of lists for e.g. Netflix type apps, combined with hardware video decide. Basically the cheapest they can get away with. Even things like android TV arenoftwn eunni g crappy dual core CPUs and shit GPUs
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?
I don't think it's so much as dismissing the idea entirely as it is dismissing the fact it's not happening anytime soon. It's like the digital future argument people have been spouting for years now even though there is no real indication of us permanently moving in that direction anytime soon because people fail to realize just because you have unlimited bandwidth and enjoy having things digital doesn't mean the general consumer does or the fact the majority of broadband users in the US are on a cap.

At some point we are going to move into the next evolution of what console gaming is there is no denying that but it ain't happening any time soon.
 
50 years? When we have flying cars, colony in Mars, AI implant in our brain, we are still are going to play games on consoles like we do today?

I've been playing with consoles since the early 80s. They've survived the birth of the internet, the jump to 3D, multiple VR attempts, portable computing/gaming, smartphones and Trump (so far) and they are currently selling as much or more than they've ever had. Consoles will be around in some form for quite a long time.
 
I think the flaw here is that he's talking about "consoles" as we know them today.

What is a "console," really, but just a "dedicated gaming machine"?

It sounds like he still believes that dedicated gaming machines are still going to be around. Maybe it will be a PC. Maybe it will be portable. Maybe it will fit in your pocket.

But in any case, you're going to pay a premium to have that dedicated gaming machine.

I also think that there are some physical limitations in this space. Streaming is a great concept, but we still don't see any real mainstream adoption. We have some serious technological barriers, and there isn't that much profit in solving them.

(I'm also in the camp that automation, such as self-driving cars, pose a serious threat to a capitalist system, and thus price sensitivity will go up. But that's a whole other topic)
 
I honestly don't think that physical media will go away and everything will be purely digital. In the future, maybe. There will always be a demand for physical copies of games, whether limited edition bundles or mass produced.
 
Consoles will never go away confirmed! :p

I could see some company coming up with a solution where you steam a game from your phone to your tv and use a traditional controller. Kind of like a reverse Wii U.

And seeing what a Switch can do with tech from 2015, I think what your average phone is capable of in 2027 is more than good enough for general consumers.
I honestly don't think that physical media will go away and everything will be purely digital. In the future, maybe. There will always be a demand for physical copies of games, whether limited edition bundles or mass produced.
When was the last time you bought a cd?
 
no, it wont. but id personally LOVE to see console exclusive software available on the pc. cut out the crap hardware and let me run it how i see fit.
 
Will not happen completely without astronomical advances in battery technology. As long as phones are all day devices expected to fit into your pocket, they won't be able to keep up with a dedicated console, or even dedicated portable.

This that dedicated game device market will continue to exist. Yes mobile technology will get better, but so will consoles. And you'll be able to do more with that same mobile technology as long as you decide you are ok with 3 or four hours of battery instead of 12.
 
Console software is gonna move off consoles. In the next two to three years, you're gonna have the opportunity to download to your PC and play on your TV. In the next 10 years you're gonna download to your phone and play on your TV.," he said.

How about downloading straight to your TV ?
 
pachter said:
In the next two to three years, you're gonna have the opportunity to download to your PC and play on your TV.

I can already do this switching my laptop to any TV using the same HDMI cable my PS4 and Wii U have.

You are late mr analyst. Late.
 
A collapse can actually be a correction. Outside of last gen being this bizarre eight year span that allowed Sony to recover from early mistakes, the console market has never really supported three systems. Saturn was practically a footnote outside of Japan (I know, I own one) and the distance between PS2 and GC/Xbox was a joke. This cycle gets very strange if you're considering Switch and Scorpio all part of the same generation, attempts to narrow the gap with PS4's install base. Either way, I don't think you're going to see 90 million + mainstream success from all three companies. Between a market leading console, PC, and mobile, most games are pretty much where they should be based on their scope and development expense.
 
For such a pro-technology, anti-Luddite forum
Ah, clearly a graduate of the Opiate School of Concern Trolling.

ya'll aren't very forward-thinking. I mean, it's one thing to be skeptical, but to dismiss the idea wholesale is rather silly. Why not entertain the potential?

As I said previously, I think that his schedule is too aggressive, but what's to stop this from happening say... 20-30 years from now?
Sorry, won't have time for gaming after I've had my consciousness uploaded into my cyborg penis and I spend my time cruising between vacation spots in my Tesla Megatron whilst getting blow jobs from $99 Walmart sexbots.
 
Taken from his latest episode.

Console software is gonna move off consoles. In the next two to three years, you're gonna have the opportunity to download to your PC and play on your TV. In the next 10 years you're gonna download to your phone and play on your TV.," he said.

What do you think?

I think he is wrong because the reason consoles exist is to give an alternative to PC moreover, phones will probably start their way out in the next 10 years to be replaced by some sort of AR device.
 
I think he is right about the market dying but wrong about everything else. Nintendo has left the home console market so we are down to 2. Lets be honest MS could leave anytime if shareholders get their way. I see the market moving to mostly mobile with Sony hanging on as the last one standing in the home console market. The home console market is shrinking back to the PS2 era levels.
 
This is what I mean.

https://www.tipranks.com/analysts/michael-pachter

Ranked #4,048 out of 4,290 Analysts (#9,428 of 9,971 overall experts)
44% Success Rate (148 out of 336 successful ratings)
-4.2%Average Return

He's not amazing at what he does but he's well known.

Wow, didn't know these rankings existed. Do they hold any value? I don't know much about the world of financial analysis. If so, that paints a pretty clear picture.
 
I can download to my PC now and play it on my TV. I don't see what's going to change in 2 years that's going to make it so much more attractive to do then as compared to now that it's going to kill consoles.

As for phones, I think as along as the gap between mobile and desktop hardware remains large consoles are going to still be popular. Phones will reach that good enough point one day, but even then I think most people will still be happy to keep buying a dedicated box for gaming because of things like controller quality and online services.
 
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