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[DarkMage619]

Yeh just assume they are incompetent until they provide evidence, I guess eh? Very mature.

Its a good job the legal system doesn't work like this.

4A games have difficulty with your cherished box, and they are doing a next gen patch with multiple features. Despite your claims to the contrary.

It proves they are technically capable after all, believe it or not.

And they still have complaints about it.

You're going to have to get over it and make peace with it, that skilled developers are limited / held back by it.


You've pointed out my lack of a good point?

I literally disproved with evidence your ignorant claim. Which you've ignored completely.

So I'm surprised I haven't made a good point, when you've managed to contradict yourselves and even each other .

I try and keep these discussions honest I've only ever been interested in disproving your original (very embarrassing) quote.

No moving goal posts from me.



I have proven it. The CTO of the studio even said himself by describing the experience developing for your favourite box.

How about you prove that he is lying? Since you said he is struggling because using no next-gen features.

Or still ignoring that one? Don't blame you.

Just continue to straw man. Or ask Riky to reply for you.

All that typing and no list of the games proving the XSS's features are being used with poor results. It should not be this hard. You support comments that the XSS has ruined this generation but fight mightily hard when people question which features of the XSS have been used showing its graphic limitations can't be mitigated. I see the narrative you are pushing. Good on you though bro. May I suggest you write a sternly worded email to MS voicing your displeasure.

 

[Kappa]

Series s is cheaper so im glad it exists. This plus a good pc is a great combo for serious gaming and couch laziness.

 

[dcmk7]

All that typing and no list of the games proving the XSS's features are being used still poor results. It should not be this hard. You support comments that the XSS has ruined this generation but fight mightily hard when people question which features of the XSS have been used showing its graphic limitations can't be mitigated. I see the narrative you are pushing. Good on you though bro. May I suggest you write a sternly worded email to MS voicing your displeasure.

All that typing and no list of the games proving the XSS's features are being used still poor results.

So we have the good old straw man argument. Moving goalposts now huh?

Where exactly have you even acknowledged my original point by the way? The one which contradicted your point entirely. With facts!

Something your argument is sorely lacking. As ever.

You've very, very conveniently ignored that post haven't you. Cheeky little fanboy you and now you expect me to entertain you and write a list of some nonsense.

Have you forgotten that you're the one making the claims. Where is your proof? Because whatever it is has been disproven. Empathically by the way.

Because you see, a studio, who complained about the Series S, well it turns out they are using many features of the Series S, yes, even VRS, which apparently can't be true according to you. They can't use these features AND still be complaining, right?

That's the point I've already disproven. If you want to move the goalposts because I've embarrassed you with that one, by all means, but I have no interest wasting my time with a fanatic who uses straw man arguments when they run out of lies to spread.

You support comments that the XSS has ruined this generation but fight mightily hard when people question which features of the XSS have been used showing its graphic limitations can't be mitigated.

Again, for the umpteenth time. The developers are the ones saying it is, try reading them. There are plenty of them after all. They even explain how it's limiting their development process and the situation will only get worse.

Read them. Seriously.

Good on you though bro. May I suggest you write a sternly worded email to MS voicing your displeasure.

And finally some sad, sarcastic humour. Typical trademark of yours.

I don't get why, literally all, your arguments are bad. But when at first you don't succeed try moving the goalposts again huh?

If any of my post upsets you maybe try asking Riky to help you again

Many one day I will have made you see some sense though.

 

[Spukc]

I think this is good. Nice to see realistic marketing.

Realistic and marketing
Don't use those two words together you mad lad

 

[SportsFan581]

Quite the argument going.

What we do know is SFS and Mesh shaders aren't in use yet. And if you choose to downplay the benefit of mesh shaders, well...

Mesh shaders can boost FPS on current graphics cards by up to a massive 1800%

RTX 30 series and RX 6000 series graphics cards can get up to a massive 1800% FPS performance boost thanks to Mesh Shaders.

www.game-debate.com

Big difference between software VRS and hardware VRS implementations also, similar to RT.

 

[dcmk7]

Quite the argument going.

What we do know is SFS and Mesh shaders aren't in use yet. And if you choose to downplay the benefit of mesh shaders, well...

Mesh shaders can boost FPS on current graphics cards by up to a massive 1800%

RTX 30 series and RX 6000 series graphics cards can get up to a massive 1800% FPS performance boost thanks to Mesh Shaders.

www.game-debate.com

Big difference between software VRS and hardware VRS implementations also, similar to RT.

None of which are relevant to the original point, unless we allow the moving of goal posts, which was why those were brought up in the first place.

Desperate tactic.

 

[SportsFan581]

^ I couldn't tell what the crux of the actual argument was, tbh.

But, I figured, might as well jump in.

 

[DarkMage619]

None of which are relevant to the original point, unless we allow the moving of goal posts, which was why those were brought up in the first place.

Desperate tactic.

Hahah yes they were. The original point was devs complaining about challenges with XSS were not using the features of the box. You went out of your way to point out Gears 5 and Dirt 5 used VRS. Which is funny for 2 reasons. First off it showed when devs used features of the box they got GOOD results and 2nd those weren't the devs complaining Bonus those devs weren't using the full features of the XSS either!

Then you started calling names and acting childish and never once could you show my original premise was wrong and those complaining devs took advantage of the the technology of the XSS and still got poor results. It was jolly good time but the whole back and forth only showed if anyone was a 'fanatic' or 'ignorant' it was you. Still it was cute going back and forth with you. You can't prove me wrong because I'm not.

Maybe after a few years the XSS will present some significant issues but seeing how the X1 made it the whole generation I'm pretty sure by the time the XSS could potentially hold something back the Xbox Series Y and Z will be prepping for launch. Cheers.

 

[The Hamburglar]

None of which are relevant to the original point, unless we allow the moving of goal posts, which was why those were brought up in the first place.

Desperate tactic.

You made the mistake of trying to have a competent discussion with Riky. I'm guessing he kept spouting of his checklist including expandable storage and other nonsense. Including the triggered emoji on all your posts?

 

[THE DUCK]

Darkmage, there's no point in arguing with thses guys any more, they just don't get it.
Probably the equivalent of banging your head against the wall and expecting it to understand.

Eventually, time will show the series s is technically very competent, and also very popular. It was never really designed to be sold at $299 but the hardware shortage provided an opportunity. Once it's $249-$199 is where it really delivers value and dollar for dollar performance. I managed to use points and bonus redemption for mine, couldn't be happier with the hardware for the price I paid.

 

[Winter John]

I'm seriously considering buying a Series S just for Gamepass. There are a lot of smaller games on there like The Surge 2, Surviving Mars that I've been interested in but not enough to buy them. So it's kind of perfect for that.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I'm seriously considering buying a Series S just for Gamepass. There are a lot of smaller games on there like The Surge 2, Surviving Mars that I've been interested in but not enough to buy them. So it's kind of perfect for that.

Go for it. Dont miss out.

Unless you got a 4k screen.

 

[yamaci17]

1080 60 fps for cross gen games.

I highly doubt it will run next gen games at 1080p 60 fps. Especially UE5 games that will run at 1440p 30 fps on the PS5. The PS5 is 2.5x more powerful which means we are looking at 900p 30 fps at the same settings. Thats assuming the ram doesnt cause them to lower the settings.

900p 30 fps vs 1080p 60 fps is a massive difference in pixel budget. if a game runs at 900p 30 fps on a 4 tflops card, you will need a 10 tflops card to run it at 1080p 60 fps.

It already runs AC Valhalla, a crossgen game at 720p-900p 60 fps (not a dip, it literally stays at 720-900p constantly)...

I honestly doubt that it can hold on to 720p 60 fps in nextgen games. PS5 and Series X can power Cyberpunk at 1440p 60 FPS, yet Series S is limited to 1080p-1124 30 FPS, becaue a 60 FPS mod would mean... 540p resolution. Which would be a little bit too much... Again this is one of the worst optimized titles, but it is a possible representative of future nextgen games' performance. Games will not be like Division 2 or Hitman 3 where even a RX580/GTX 1060 can reliably hit 1080p 60 FPS. I can't really understand all the hype these new consoles get. PS4 run Last of Us, Uncharted games at smooth 1080p 60 FPS, it could've run lots of PS3-era games at 1080p 60 FPS, for example.

Yet people go mad when pre-2020 games run 1080p60 4K60 with respective consoles. Oh, I strayed from the topic, sorry.

 

[michaelius]

Darkmage, there's no point in arguing with thses guys any more, they just don't get it.
Probably the equivalent of banging your head against the wall and expecting it to understand.

Eventually, time will show the series s is technically very competent, and also very popular. It was never really designed to be sold at $299 but the hardware shortage provided an opportunity. Once it's $249-$199 is where it really delivers value and dollar for dollar performance. I managed to use points and bonus redemption for mine, couldn't be happier with the hardware for the price I paid.

Very popular?

All sales data that we had at launch show that X versions outsells it heavily and that's with initial somewhat limited stock working in S version adventage as it was available.

 

[dcmk7]

Hahah yes they were. The original point was devs complaining about challenges with XSS were not using the features of the box. You went out of your way to point out Gears 5 and Dirt 5 used VRS. Which is funny for 2 reasons. First off it showed when devs used features of the box they got GOOD results and 2nd those weren't the devs complaining Bonus those devs weren't using the full features of the XSS either!

Then you started calling names and acting childish and never once could you show my original premise was wrong and those complaining devs took advantage of the the technology of the XSS and still got poor results. It was jolly good time but the whole back and forth only showed if anyone was a 'fanatic' or 'ignorant' it was you. Still it was cute going back and forth with you. You can't prove me wrong because I'm not.

Maybe after a few years the XSS will present some significant issues but seeing how the X1 made it the whole generation I'm pretty sure by the time the XSS could potentially hold something back the Xbox Series Y and Z will be prepping for launch. Cheers.

Oh wow,

You make zero sense and now you are changing every aspect to make yourself appear right?

It's all very sad.

never once could you show my original premise was wrong and those complaining devs took advantage of the the technology of the XSS and still got poor results.

This is the craziest part.

Except I've provided an interview link and a feature set of their upcoming game, which is making use of Series S features and who ALSO complained. It disproved everything about your ignorant claim. Completely.

Again, don't acknowledge that at all huh? You have a blind spot for truth and facts, apparently.

Where's any evidence of yours? Nope, I haven't seen any evidence. That's typical you though.

You went out of your way to point out Gears 5 and Dirt 5 used VRS. Which is funny for 2 reasons. First off it showed when devs used features of the box they got GOOD results and 2nd those weren't the devs complaining Bonus those devs weren't using the full features of the XSS either!

Unbelievable, this was in a entirely different thread and a different discussion completely!!

Case in point. Bend and twist everything. It's super cool and interesting

Havent once brought up Dirt 5 and Gears 5, in this discussion.

No wonder you are making no sense, you're unable to follow a discussion properly.

Then you started calling names and acting childish

What names? Do tell.

It was jolly good time but the whole back and forth only showed if anyone was a 'fanatic' or 'ignorant' it was you. Still it was cute going back and forth with you. You can't prove me wrong because I'm not.

Urgh, your 'funny' sarcasm is so cringey and passive aggressive.

You're unable counter anything so I must be a fanatic? Fanatical about what exactly.. stopping the spread of bullshit? I'll agree with that.

It's hilarious that you call me ignorant when not long ago you didn't even understand what it meant and couldn't even define it.

You can't prove me wrong because I'm not.

Well ignoring posts which refutes everything, suggests you are, dude.

Here's a reminder of the point you made:

Keep seeing the same line about how XSS is 'holding back' next gen and can't point to any evidence that that is true. Same comments from devs complaining about optimizing challenges with the XSS but none of those devs are actually using the features to mitigate the challenges they are having.

And my response:

The Chief Technical Officer, of 4A games, says it's difficult, he's complained about the Series S holding him back.

His interview:

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/xbox...-for-future-games-says-metro-exodus-developer


And guess what he IS using VRS for the next gen update for Metro Exodus, along with ray tracing, optimized shaders and all the other next-gen good stuff.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/16/...xbox-series-x-s-upgrades-ray-tracing-dlss-2-0

I'm going to stop responding, as I don't think you're ever going to get it, if you surprise me then great, happy to discuss more.

But since you're ignoring the posts which disprove your silly claim, not much point continuing.

Enjoy being in denial and staying angry with all those developers complaining, dude.

 

[dcmk7]

You made the mistake of trying to have a competent discussion with Riky. I'm guessing he kept spouting of his checklist including expandable storage and other nonsense. Including the triggered emoji on all your posts?

The read receipt right?

Of course.

 

[MonarchJT]

We are in the March after a November console launch. Your presumption of what "we understand" is ridiculous.

Look don't start the war, is the same for Xsx, it is more powerful but still there's nothing to see
So probably for both consoles tools and optimizations are s thing in the end

 

[Winter John]

Go for it. Dont miss out.

Unless you got a 4k screen.

I think we got about 3 of em. I can't tell much difference between them and the 1080s we had. When we moved from 720 to 1080 the difference was immediately clear, but personally I think 4k is a lot of overhyped bullshit.

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

As an XSS owner and Game Pass subscriber, I could not be happier with it.

It is pretty funny seeing threads like this getting so much attention, but when we have games supporting 4K or 1440p, 60 or 120 FPS, even Ray tracing, then suddenly it's not that interesting/impressive. And those negative comments usually come from people that were not going to buy the console in the first place.

About games being 900p or whatever. I guess most of you already forgot that we had first year titles like e.g. Dead Rising 3, Battlefield 4, or Call of Duty Ghosts running at what? 720p on Xbox and 900p on PS4? So, 5 or 7 years later (going by some people's logic) games on those platforms should run at most 480p/30.

Then again, maybe I'm just someone that likes to play games, have fun, and not bother with shitposting or Digital Foundry's analysis.

 

[SportsFan581]

It already runs AC Valhalla, a crossgen game at 720p-900p 60 fps (not a dip, it literally stays at 720-900p constantly)...

I honestly doubt that it can hold on to 720p 60 fps in nextgen games. PS5 and Series X can power Cyberpunk at 1440p 60 FPS, yet Series S is limited to 1080p-1124 30 FPS, becaue a 60 FPS mod would mean... 540p resolution. Which would be a little bit too much... Again this is one of the worst optimized titles, but it is a possible representative of future nextgen games' performance. Games will not be like Division 2 or Hitman 3 where even a RX580/GTX 1060 can reliably hit 1080p 60 FPS. I can't really understand all the hype these new consoles get. PS4 run Last of Us, Uncharted games at smooth 1080p 60 FPS, it could've run lots of PS3-era games at 1080p 60 FPS, for example.

Yet people go mad when pre-2020 games run 1080p60 4K60 with respective consoles. Oh, I strayed from the topic, sorry.

First, PS5 and XSX are in no way even remotely close to locked at 1440p in Cyberpunk. If you read the reviews the XSS actually averages a higher resolution than the XSX (which frequents 1080p in performance mode), though the peak is lower, and obviously at half the framerate. And again resolution isn't that high on Valhalla either, in performance mode. Probably a good indication of where the system is at in games that top out at 1440p on PS5 and XSX. The system is going to stay the same as it is now, nothing is going to change drastically as devs start to push these boxes more, they will be learning a pushing the XSS further as well.

 

[THE DUCK]

Very popular?

All sales data that we had at launch show that X versions outsells it heavily and that's with initial somewhat limited stock working in S version adventage as it was available.

Yes, as of now they have sold all the stock they have produced at the $299 price. And if it stops selling, they will drop to $249 or lower to keep it moving. I'm not sure what other measure of success you would want than selling everything you produce......

You have to remember the biggest audience for this product isn't lined up at gamestop, its the guy or girl who sort of wants one who will grab one whenever. So it's not surprising they aren't trying to kill each other to get one.
When was the last time you saw a huge lineup for a samsung A series phone? Yet these phones make up a huge chunk of Samsung sales.

 

[DarkMage619]

Oh wow,

You make zero sense and now you are changing every aspect to make yourself appear right?

It's all very sad.



This is the craziest part.

Except I've provided an interview link and a feature set of their upcoming game, which is making use of Series S features and who ALSO complained. It disproved everything about your ignorant claim. Completely.

Again, don't acknowledge that at all huh? You have a blind spot for truth and facts, apparently.

Where's any evidence of yours? Nope, I haven't seen any evidence. That's typical you though.




Unbelievable, this was in a entirely different thread and a different discussion completely!!

Case in point. Bend and twist everything. It's super cool and interesting

Havent once brought up Dirt 5 and Gears 5, in this discussion.

No wonder you are making no sense, you're unable to follow a discussion properly.




What names? Do tell.


Urgh, your 'funny' sarcasm is so cringey and passive aggressive.

You're unable counter anything so I must be a fanatic? Fanatical about what exactly.. stopping the spread of bullshit? I'll agree with that.

It's hilarious that you call me ignorant when not long ago you didn't even understand what it meant and couldn't even define it.




Well ignoring posts which refutes everything, suggests you are, dude.

Here's a reminder of the point you made:



And my response:





I'm going to stop responding, as I don't think you're ever going to get it, if you surprise me then great, happy to discuss more.

But since you're ignoring the posts which disprove your silly claim, not much point continuing.

Enjoy being in denial and staying angry with all those developers complaining, dude.

This is so silly. You want to talk about developers? Here. This developer stated:

"While the Xbox Series S will be yet another platform to contend with that will take some time in testing and quality assurance, many developers nowadays are used to a much more dynamic ecosystem of hardware. Even in the console space we have had different tiers of the same consoles for many years. The way Xbox Series S differs from Xbox Series X (memory amount and GPU horsepower, mostly) is for us much easier to adapt to than to for example the wide variety of PCs out in the wild or the way that the previous generation of consoles differed. Less memory and slower GPU are things that most game developers can dynamically scale for by scaling resolutions and graphics effects, while different storage solutions or widely varying CPU performance are much harder to adapt to. All in all, we don't think that the Xbox Series S will significantly limit the game development progress as a whole in any way."

Since you believe developers why don't you bring this guy up? You have all these doom and gloom predictions and you don't even try to paint the full picture. It looks like you have an agenda. My point remains the same as it always was whether you want to name call or act holier than thou. There has been no evidence that the complaining devs are using the features of XSS to mitigate their issues. That does not mean they are 'lazy or inept' but it does mean that if you aren't using all the functions of the SOC it will limit the potential of your product. I don't think its helpful to complain on Twitter or in the news. Contact MS with your issues. In fact there was an awesome video with Jason Ronald where he specifically talks about XSS development:


About an hour in he gives some very candid commentary.

I have NEVER heard from any dev that MS does not have developer relations to assist any team that needs help getting the best performance out of their code. If you needed help why not go to the source?

The other idea some peddle about holding back the current generation I responded to that numerous times. It is fanboy nonsense. The XSS isn't even the weakest spec device on the market and in an environment where PCs get just about every game the XSS is hardly the biggest issue. If a developer wants to take some time and use the features of the system that developer can get Gears 5 like results. If they choose not to they shouldn't complain.

 

[dcmk7]

This is so silly. You want to talk about developers? Here. This developer stated:

"While the Xbox Series S will be yet another platform to contend with that will take some time in testing and quality assurance, many developers nowadays are used to a much more dynamic ecosystem of hardware. Even in the console space we have had different tiers of the same consoles for many years. The way Xbox Series S differs from Xbox Series X (memory amount and GPU horsepower, mostly) is for us much easier to adapt to than to for example the wide variety of PCs out in the wild or the way that the previous generation of consoles differed. Less memory and slower GPU are things that most game developers can dynamically scale for by scaling resolutions and graphics effects, while different storage solutions or widely varying CPU performance are much harder to adapt to. All in all, we don't think that the Xbox Series S will significantly limit the game development progress as a whole in any way."

Since you believe developers why don't you bring this guy up? You have all these doom and gloom predictions and you don't even try to paint the full picture. It looks like you have an agenda. My point remains the same as it always was whether you want to name call or act holier than thou. There has been no evidence that the complaining devs are using the features of XSS to mitigate their issues. That does not mean they are 'lazy or inept' but it does mean that if you aren't using all the functions of the SOC it will limit the potential of your product. I don't think its helpful to complain on Twitter or in the news. Contact MS with your issues. In fact there was an awesome video with Jason Ronald where he specifically talks about XSS development:


About an hour in he gives some very candid commentary.

I have NEVER heard from any dev that MS does not have developer relations to assist any team that needs help getting the best performance out of their code. If you needed help why not go to the source?

The other idea some peddle about holding back the current generation I responded to that numerous times. It is fanboy nonsense. The XSS isn't even the weakest spec device on the market and in an environment where PCs get just about every game the XSS is hardly the biggest issue. If a developer wants to take some time and use the features of the system that developer can get Gears 5 like results. If they choose not to they shouldn't complain.

I have mentioned this interview before. It somewhat proves my point. Interesting you brought that up.

Read carefully.

All in all, we don't think that the Xbox Series S will significantly limit the game development progress as a whole in any way.

So it will limit the game development, just not significantly, any limit is bad in my books.

Thanks for proving my point.

There has been no evidence that the complaining devs are using the features of XSS to mitigate their issues.

There is evidence but don't even acknowledge it. Have sent it across many, many times now. 4a games are using the features. But continue to delude yourselves overwise.

That approach sounds healthy.

Nice attempt move goalposts too

At no point in your rambling response were you even close to replying to my original point.

Seriously though, you didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

As for name calling both you and Riky have been banned for console warring and trolling.

So very interesting to be called a fanboy from you. Especially since defended God awful Kinect + X1 SKU and price rises.

When in fact I am actually quoting developer interviews and tweets, your issue is with them not me. So they must be the haters. I didn't call the box difficult and limiting . Sorry it upsets you so much.

Try and get better with coping?

 

[DarkMage619]

I have mentioned this interview before. It somewhat proves my point. Interesting you brought that up.

Read carefully.



So it will limit the game development, just not significantly, any limit is bad in my books.

Thanks for proving my point.



There is evidence but don't even acknowledge it. Have sent it across many, many times now. 4a games are using the features. But continue to delude yourselves overwise.

That approach sounds healthy.

Nice attempt move goalposts too

At no point in your rambling response were you even close to replying to my original point.

Seriously though, you didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

As for name calling both you and Riky have been banned for console warring and trolling.

So very interesting to be called a fanboy from you. Especially since defended God awful Kinect + X1 SKU and price rises.

When in fact I am actually quoting developer interviews and tweets, your issue is with them not me. So they must be the haters. I didn't call the box difficult and limiting . Sorry it upsets you so much.

Try and get better with coping?

You have no point other than you don't like the XSS. Good for you. My goal post has and always was that the complaining devs are not fully using the features of the XSS. You haven't shown that they are and you haven't shown that they reached out to MS for assistance. You selectively edit articles and deflect to years old topics that have nothing to do with the XSS like Kinect and XLG. All signs that you never had much of a point to begin with.

This idea about limiting development is silly especially since console development in general is about limits. It is obvious that the XSS has limits as does the XSX; the key is how developers use the features in those boxes to address them. And again there is no evidence that the complaining devs are. Jason Ronald, a guy who knows a little more about the XSS than you or I do, addresses the comments some devs have made about XSS development. If you are actually interested in learning about a console you clearly have little knowledge of I provided a video for you to watch. Enjoy.

 

[dcmk7]

You have no point other than you don't like the XSS. Good for you. My goal post has and always was that the complaining devs are not fully using the features of the XSS. You haven't shown that they are and you haven't shown that they reached out to MS for assistance. You selectively edit articles and deflect to years old topics that have nothing to do with the XSS like Kinect and XLG. All signs that you never had much of a point to begin with.

This idea about limiting development is silly especially since console development in general is about limits. It is obvious that the XSS has limits as does the XSX; the key is how developers use the features in those boxes to address them. And again there is no evidence that the complaining devs are. Jason Ronald, a guy who knows a little more about the XSS than you or I do, addresses the comments some devs have made about XSS development. If you are actually interested in learning about a console you clearly have little knowledge of I provided a video for you to watch. Enjoy.

You have no point other than you don't like the XSS. Good for you

Actually quoting developers, those weren't my words, they are having issues.

So simply quoting those. Nice try
I haven't put any words in their mouths.
Presented you with plenty of links as well.

You haven't shown that they are and you haven't shown that they reached out to MS for assistance.

Have proved these and sent links. Which you keep ignoring .

It's so embarrassing.

Suggest you read. And learn to cope better.


I will repeat.. you didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

 

[THE DUCK]

Dcmk7, he didn't need to respond to anything, it's all old crap that's already been gone over a dozen times before. Just accept that your position is beyond weak and move on.

 

[AgentP]

Series s is cheaper so im glad it exists. This plus a good pc is a great combo for serious gaming and couch laziness.

Cheaper, like renting furniture is cheaper. They lock you into digital only which is often more expensive and they make sure you are going to have to buy a proprietary $200+ SSD.

 

[dcmk7]

Dcmk7, he didn't need to respond to anything, it's all old crap that's already been gone over a dozen times before. Just accept that your position is beyond weak and move on.

'Beyond weak'

You clearly haven't read anything or followed discussion.

He said all the developers who have complained, only complained because they hadn't bothered to implement Series S features.

Which is patently false. I have disproved that fallacy, with links and developer quotes.

Thanks for being impartial.

 

[SportsFan581]

Cheaper, like renting furniture is cheaper. They lock you into digital only which is often more expensive and they make sure you are going to have to buy a proprietary $200+ SSD.

I doubt many XSS users ever bother with the proper SSD expansion. Choosing to just swap games between a cheap USB hdd and the internal SSD would be a better fit for the system.

If you need a ton of games installed at once, obviously the XSX makes more sense.

 

[Bogroll]

Series S is good value. The Ps4 costs as much or more in the Uk. Its only because the Ps5 and Series X are even better value that it makes the SS less vfm.

 

[DarkMage619]

Actually quoting developers, those weren't my words, they are having issues.

So simply quoting those. Nice try
I haven't put any words in their mouths.
Presented you with plenty of links as well.



Have proved these and sent links. Which keep you keep ignoring .

It's so embarrassing.

Suggest you read. And learn to cope better.


I will repeat.. you didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

Something those complaining devs need to focus on, gamers!


Hopefully they'll reach out to MS pretty soon cause there appears to be lots of customers out there who will want more content. The XSS isn't about high end graphics it's about a good value. I'm glad MS made the device.

I doubt many XSS users ever bother with the proper SSD expansion. Choosing to just swap games between a cheap USB hdd and the internal SSD would be a better fit for the system.

If you need a ton of games installed at once, obviously the XSX makes more sense.

Why do you make so much sense!?!

 

[dcmk7]

Something those complaining devs need to focus on, gamers!


Hopefully they'll reach out to MS pretty soon cause there appears to be lots of customers out there who will want more content. The XSS isn't about high end graphics it's about a good value. I'm glad MS made the device.


Why do you make so much sense!?!

You didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

One day I hope to see you engage in a discussion properly and not throw a tantrum because some mean developer hater isn't 100% complimentary about a a plastic box, that you're rather fond of.

Not everything is a console war. You can't just pretend bad news doesn't exist. It's still out there.

Sad.

 

[SportsFan581]

Hopefully they'll reach out to MS pretty soon cause there appears to be lots of customers out there who will want more content. The XSS isn't about high end graphics it's about a good value. I'm glad MS made the device.

Well said. We'll see how the little box gets on as things progress, but it's doing well so far (with a few exceptions here and there where questionable choices seem to have been made regarding the render target).

 

[FrankWza]

The XSS isn't about high end graphics it's about a good value. I'm glad MS made the device.

Consoles in general are about good value.
That's their point and part of their appeal. . We got 2 next gen systems with similar specs and then a 3rd console developers are already complaining about. That's not a good value when you look at the market. Especially when there a PS5 DE priced at $399 and in order to expand the storage adequately on the s you need to spend $200.

 

[THE DUCK]

'Beyond weak'

You clearly haven't read anything or followed discussion.

He said all the developers who have complained, only complained because they hadn't bothered to implement Series S features.

Which is patently false. I have disproved that fallacy, with links and developer quotes.

Thanks for being impartial.

It's the exact same discussion with the exact same points and counter points that has happened 5 times already on this board.
Just tired of stating the obvious. Your links and developer quotes, as stated by Darkmage, are just hand picked slams, you omit and forget the 99% of those who have said there is no issue here.
I have yet to have one person come with a single valid argument as to why people like you are taking the Series S as the lowest denominator for development, when in 99% of cases that crown goes to PC minimum spec and or the version being made for the old consoles.
Either way the S isn't the weakest link by far, and saying it over and over again seem to fall on deaf ears.

 

[THE DUCK]

Just a follow up to that, lets take a look at some bigger name pc games coming out in the next few months:

Far Cry 6:
Minimum PC System Requirements
OS: Win 10 64.
Processor: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz / AMD FX-8350.
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 380, RX 570 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 4GB, GTX 1050 or better.
VRAM: 4GB.
System Memory: 8 GB RAM.
Storage: 60 GB Hard drive space.
DirectX 12 Compatible Graphics Card.

Deathloop:
OS: Win 7 64.
Processor: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320.
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 380 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB.
System Memory: 8 GB RAM.
Storage: 50 GB Hard drive space.
DirectX 11 Compatible Graphics Card.

Resident Evil Village:
Here are the Resident Evil Village System Requirements (Minimum)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i5-6400 or AMD FX™-6350 or better
RAM: 8 GB
OS: WINDOWS® 7, 8.1, 10 (64-BIT Required)
VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 770 or AMD Radeon™ R7 265 with 2GB Video RAM
PIXEL SHADER: 5.0
VERTEX SHADER: 5.0
DEDICATED VIDEO RAM: 2048 MB

Elden Ring:
Minimum Requirements, Predicted
OS: Win 7 64
Processor: Intel Core i3-2100 3.1GHz / AMD FX-6300
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 7950 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
System Memory: 4 GB RAM
Storage: 25 GB Hard drive space
DirectX 11 Compatible Graphics Card

I mean seriously, you look at that and say series S is the weak link? If so you don't understand the hardware in it at all.

 

[dcmk7]

It's the exact same discussion with the exact same points and counter points that has happened 5 times already on this board.
Just tired of stating the obvious. Your links and developer quotes, as stated by Darkmage, are just hand picked slams, you omit and forget the 99% of those who have said there is no issue here.
I have yet to have one person come with a single valid argument as to why people like you are taking the Series S as the lowest denominator for development, when in 99% of cases that crown goes to PC minimum spec and or the version being made for the old consoles.
Either way the S isn't the weakest link by far, and saying it over and over again seem to fall on deaf ears.

Your links and developer quotes, as stated by Darkmage, are just hand picked slams, you omit and forget the 99% of those who have said there is no issue here.

They are full interviews with developers on their (difficult) experiences so far.

Nothing hand picked about it. It's right there on the internet .

They even are using the tools available, such as VRS, which The Dark One, says they couldn't be, as he would be able to see the artifacts (that part is especially stupid, even for him).

He said if they were using the features like VRS they wouldn't be complaining at all and wouldn't be having problems.

Well... they are using them and they are still complaining.

All backed up by the links I sent.

Now explain - which part of that is weak? Bear in mind I'm only interested in disproving his original claim, that no studios (of those who complained) are using it.


But if you would rather bury your head in the sand as well.. be my guess.

 

[dcmk7]

Just a follow up to that, lets take a look at some bigger name pc games coming out in the next few months:

Far Cry 6:
Minimum PC System Requirements
OS: Win 10 64.
Processor: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz / AMD FX-8350.
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 380, RX 570 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 4GB, GTX 1050 or better.
VRAM: 4GB.
System Memory: 8 GB RAM.
Storage: 60 GB Hard drive space.
DirectX 12 Compatible Graphics Card.

Deathloop:
OS: Win 7 64.
Processor: Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD FX-8320.
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 380 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB.
System Memory: 8 GB RAM.
Storage: 50 GB Hard drive space.
DirectX 11 Compatible Graphics Card.

Resident Evil Village:
Here are the Resident Evil Village System Requirements (Minimum)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i5-6400 or AMD FX™-6350 or better
RAM: 8 GB
OS: WINDOWS® 7, 8.1, 10 (64-BIT Required)
VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 770 or AMD Radeon™ R7 265 with 2GB Video RAM
PIXEL SHADER: 5.0
VERTEX SHADER: 5.0
DEDICATED VIDEO RAM: 2048 MB

Elden Ring:
Minimum Requirements, Predicted
OS: Win 7 64
Processor: Intel Core i3-2100 3.1GHz / AMD FX-6300
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 7950 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
System Memory: 4 GB RAM
Storage: 25 GB Hard drive space
DirectX 11 Compatible Graphics Card

I mean seriously, you look at that and say series S is the weak link? If so you don't understand the hardware in it at all.

Oh dear.. that's related to the original point how?


Seems you like to straw man too?

Common tactic when you have no response or can't be bothered to follow a discussion.

 

[THE DUCK]

They are full interviews with developers on their (difficult) experiences so far.

Nothing hand picked about it. It's right there on the internet .

They even are using the tools available, such as VRS, which The Dark One, says they couldn't be, as he would be able to see the artifacts (that part is especially stupid, even for him).

He said if they were using the features like VRS they wouldn't be complaining at all and wouldn't be having problems.

Well... they are using them and they are still complaining.

All backed up by the links I sent.

Now explain - which part of that is weak? Bear in mind I'm only interested in disproving his original claim, that no studios (of those who complained) are using it.


But if you would rather bury your head in the sand as well.. be my guess.

So if you are so balanced, why aren't you quoting all the ones that said it was fine? Oh, ya right, that's why, you've decided on a position and are building a one sided case for it, regardless of what else is out there. You even cherry pick out of the very links you provided, the bad parts and ignore the good things said, twisting it to the negative no matter what.
And you still fail to mention, and this part is particularly weak, is that most developers have said absolutely nothing - do you know what that means? In the world of products being used or developed for, it means they are not having issues. But continue to ignore this, I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[THE DUCK]

Oh dear.. that's related to the original point how?


Seems you like to straw man too?

Common tactic when you have no response or can't be bothered to follow a discussion.

So yet again, another person who swears the S is a weak link, dragging down development, hard to program for, bla bla bla bla, but when presented with an actual argument that shuts it all down you have zero. Less than zero actually, you pretend the subject was changed somehow?

 

[dcmk7]

So if you are so balanced, why aren't you quoting all the ones that said it was fine? Oh, ya right, that's why, you've decided on a position and are building a one sided case for it, regardless of what else is out there. You even cherry pick out of the very links you provided, the bad parts and ignore the good things said, twisting it to the negative no matter what.
And you still fail to mention, and this part is particularly weak, is that most developers have said absolutely nothing - do you know what that means? In the world of products being used or developed for, it means they are not having issues. But continue to ignore this, I guess ignorance is bliss.

I'm going to be completely honest, I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. When it became clear you were moving the goalposts.

I'll say it one final time, as I'm boring myself, his point was the developers who complained aren't using the features. Provided no evidence, just decided on a whim to pluck that BS right out of the air.

Which I pushed back on, it's an ignorant claim - does a huge disservice to developers out there - and I've proven to him his statement is wrong.

I'm not interested in developers who haven't complained and are happy with it because his point was about the developers who had complained.

His point.

It is really not that difficult to understand.

 

[DarkMage619]

You didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

One day I hope to see you engage in a discussion properly and not throw a tantrum because some mean developer hater isn't 100% complimentary about a a plastic box, that you're rather fond of.

Not everything is a console war. You can't just pretend bad news doesn't exist. It's still out there.

Sad.

Who is console warring? The guy making a reasonable statement about complaining devs not actually taking advantage of the system they are trying to code games for, or the guy who has an axe to grind against a system he is personally against making unsubstantiated claims and calling names? Find me in a thread about a console I don't own trying to sow doubts. You can check back as many years as you'd like.

You never showed that the complaining devs used the features of the box and couldn't get things to work properly. You never showed those devs outreach to MS to get assistance showing they did more than just complain on twitter or in the media. You DID make a lame semantic argument about how 'significant' the XSS would be holding things back so that's something.

At the end of the day it's clear you don't like the XSS and that's great! Like I've told you over and over again you don't have to buy one! I didn't buy one either, at least for myself. I also don't need to launch a crusade against it making up stuff. What is clear that the system is already out and on store shelves so either complaining devs will go to twitter or they will go to MS and actually work with the manufacturer to get the results they want. Gamers only care about the games and there are plenty of things to play on the XSS and XSX.

Consoles in general are about good value.
That's their point and part of their appeal. . We got 2 next gen systems with similar specs and then a 3rd console developers are already complaining about. That's not a good value when you look at the market. Especially when there a PS5 DE priced at $399 and in order to expand the storage adequately on the s you need to spend $200.

Far be it from me to disagree with you Frank but you are wrong. The XSS is every bit the current gen console as the others. You might not know this but the XSS has the exact same features and abilities but performance will not come as easily as the other devices because it has less RAM, storage, and memory bandwidth. SOME devs complained but those devs have not taken advantage of the features of the box to mitigate those issues. It is certainly the most affordable current gen device which was by design.

You are also wrong on the storage point. The XSS can offload any game even current gen games to an external storage device it just can't PLAY those games off that storage unless it is the official card. The PS5 DE point you mentioned is the device that can only run games off its internal storage nor can you even move a PS5 game to an external drive. Currently there is no way to expand PS5 storage for PS5 games AT ALL. Not a great value for a device $100 or $200 more expensive. Just add these points to your notes when you are showing people your extensive Xbox knowledge.

 

[Duchess]

Anyone in the UK who's after a Series S can find them on Amazon right now. PS5s sold out in minutes, but MS's budget offering for this gen has been there for hours, because no fucker wants it.

 

[dcmk7]

Who is console warring? The guy making a reasonable statement about complaining devs not actually taking advantage of the system they are trying to code games for, or the guy who has an axe to grind against a system he is personally against making unsubstantiated claims and calling names? Find me in a thread about a console I don't own trying to sow doubts. You can check back as many years as you'd like.

You never showed that the complaining devs used the features of the box and couldn't get things to work properly. You never showed those devs outreach to MS to get assistance showing they did more than just complain on twitter or in the media. You DID make a lame semantic argument about how 'significant' the XSS would be holding things back so that's something.

At the end of the day it's clear you don't like the XSS and that's great! Like I've told you over and over again you don't have to buy one! I didn't buy one either, at least for myself. I also don't need to launch a crusade against it making up stuff. What is clear that the system is already out and on store shelves so either complaining devs will go to twitter or they will go to MS and actually work with the manufacturer to get the results they want. Gamers only care about the games and there are plenty of things to play on the XSS and XSX.

You didn't actually respond to anything I wrote.

It's totally a theme now.

Your posts are always filled with such nonsense.

Ignoring the contents of a post.
Straw man arguments, moving goal posts.
Trying to bend it enough to create a new narrative.
Sad, cringey humour.
Ignorant claims.
Normally there is a SonyToo, but you seem to have spared that on this occasion.

It's all so, so sad.

You never showed that the complaining devs used the features of the box and couldn't get things to work properly.

Well, again, try reading the links I've sent. Where they state using VRS, a feature not apparently using (according to The Dark One). Contents too difficult to swallow?

Which part of the article I linked proves you right and me wrong? I am all ears! Wondering why haven't corrected me yet. At all.

As for the console warring... right now in this discussion, I have never once had a negative thing to say about this plastic box been simply paraphrasing the developers who have complained.

So, console warring? Nope.

Try again with that one.

There is a difference between paraphrasing and saying something myself. I'm not shocked at all that you are unable to spot it.

You probably think that by me quoting some negative developer interviews that I'm the one attacking your little console.

I'm not, the developers are. Deal with it better.

It's not the end of the world.

 

[THE DUCK]

Anyone in the UK who's after a Series S can find them on Amazon right now. PS5s sold out in minutes, but MS's budget offering for this gen has been there for hours, because no fucker wants it.

So they are selling out because nobody wants it? This is some twisted logic.

 

[THE DUCK]

I have noticed that the "straw man" insults always seem to come from someone who disagrees with an opinion, regardless of what was said. LOL

 

[Duchess]

So they are selling out because nobody wants it? This is some twisted logic.

... what?

 

[dcmk7]

I have noticed that the "straw man" insults always seem to come from someone who disagrees with an opinion, regardless of what was said. LOL

I'll bite.. Go ahead and show me an example.

 

[dcmk7]

So they are selling out because nobody wants it? This is some twisted logic.

His post was very simple to understand.

But you've managed to somehow confuse yourself?

 

[hououinkyouma00]

... what?

Don't think it's hard to understand. They sell out even if they take longer then the PS5 or XSX so "fuckers" do in fact want them.