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[duk]

profit for games division???

 

[Kujo]

Updated:

Sold to Retail/Shipped

LTD:

PS3 - 5.59 million (11 months)
Wii - 13.17 million (11 months)
360 - 13.4 million (23 months)

Monthly average:

PS3 - 508,100 (per month)
360 - 582,600 (per month)
Wii - 1,197,200 (per month)

The average starts from first month for shipping, all of which were November.

 

[fse]

I doubt that we'll see H&E make a profit every quarter going forward.

I also think we'll see several profitable quarters, though, unlike last gen.

Eh, H&E making a profit for MS is nice, but its not the only thing that makes money for MS. Xbox is like a side project for them. :lol

 

[AstroLad]

yes yes yes

*dance*

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

yes yes yes

*dance*

What'd that FBI dude say in the Sopranos finale?

'WE'RE GONNA WIN THIS THING!"

:lol

 

[Mrbob]

I doubt that we'll see H&E make a profit every quarter going forward.

I also think we'll see several profitable quarters, though, unlike last gen.

Games are selling, hardware is profitable. This should be a turning point for the MS games division to start turning a profit in the future 360 era.

 

[szaromir]

hardware is profitable

Unless Zune is draining so much money, I doubt that's the case.

Though I'm sure Xbox division will be profitable this year as they seem extremely commited to be so.

 

[Rolf NB]

Wow, now you are just grasping at straws. They booked a billion dollars to cover the repair cost, they could have all of the 360s break at once, buy the replacement consoles through retail and replace every console sold to date, twice.

What you describe would cost 9.5 billion dollars if I use an average price of 350 dollars per machine.
9.5, as a number, is different from 1. So get your fucking math straight.

 

[chespace]

What'd that FBI dude say in the Sopranos finale?

'WE'RE GONNA WIN THIS THING!"

:lol

Don't stop, believing -- hold onto that feeling!

(streetlight people in the niiiiight)

 

[Arsenal]

Wait... are people interpreting their $10 billion in goodwill as moneyhat money? :lol

That's fucking awesome.

GAF has absolutely no idea how to read a financial statement confirmed.

 

[AniHawk]

PS3 - 508,100 (per month)
360 - 582,600 (per month)
Wii - 1,197,200 (per month)

The average starts from first month for shipping, all of which were November.

So at this rate, how long is it going to take Sony to catch up to Microsoft?

 

[plagiarize]

What you describe would cost 9.5 billion dollars if I use an average price of 350 dollars per machine.
9.5, as a number, is different from 1. So get your fucking math straight.

when i divide a billion by 350, i get 28 and a half million.

maybe want to check your own math their buddy.

oops no i don't... heh.

 

[AstroLad]

GAF has absolutely no idea how to read a financial statement confirmed.

I really, really enjoyed the various interpretations of "goodwill." Pseudo-Finance-Age confirmed.

"Goodwill" means the market value of the clothes Microsoft and its employees have given to Goodwill, people. Don't always assume the worst just because you hate "M$."

 

[Zzoram]

What you describe would cost 9.5 billion dollars if I use an average price of 350 dollars per machine.
9.5, as a number, is different from 1. So get your fucking math straight.

The 360 doesn't cost $350 for MSFT to make. It's been less than $350 for a few months now. Pack-in games cost them almost nothing, since the games being packed in had already done like 90% of the sale they were going to do, and printing the DVDs doesn't cost more than $2 each.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I really, really enjoyed the various interpretations of "goodwill." Pseudo-Finance-Age confirmed.

"Goodwill" means the market value of the clothes Microsoft and its employees have given to Goodwill, people. Don't always assume the worst just because you hate "M$."

Dang. That's a lot of M.I.A./Diplo tour shirts...

 

[Zzoram]

You guys can't seriously believe MSFT spent $10billion on money hats this quarter, or even year :lol

That's like, more than they spent on the entire Xbox 1 generation.

 

[cortland_andrus]

PS3 - 5.59 million (11 months)
Wii - 13.17 million (11 months)
360 - 13.4 million (23 months)

Monthly average:

PS3 - 508,100 (per month)
360 - 582,600 (per month)
Wii - 1,197,200 (per month)

The average starts from first month for shipping, all of which were November.

This is why those Sony numbers do not reflect actual installed userbase. Throughout this year they've been averaging around 150K tops each month between Japan and North America. European numbers only go back about seven months or so, and do not bring the average up anywhere near that high.


So what is the installed userbase? Around 4.5 million or so?

What would that put the 360's userbase at? Around 12 million or so? We know that installed base isn't equal to the 13.4 million number as well. Their North American and Japanese userbases combined are what, about 7 million, tops? Yeah, pretty hard to believe that they moved around double that in Europe/Australia.

 

[Rolf NB]

when i divide a billion by 350, i get 28 and a half million.

No you don't. You get 2857142 and a lot of interesting digits after the decimal point, or in other words roughly 2.8 million.

maybe want to check your own math their buddy.

edit: noticed your edit. Glad we agree.

 

[plagiarize]

No you don't. You get 2857142 and a lot of interesting digits after the decimal point, or in other words rougly 2.8 million.

my stealth edit beat you. sorry

 

[RSTEIN]

GAF has absolutely no idea how to read a financial statement confirmed.

Well, we already know that but this takes it to a new level. This is next-gen financial statement interpretation :lol

"Goodwill" means the market value of the clothes Microsoft and its employees have given to Goodwill, people. Don't always assume the worst just because you hate "M$."

Finally someone gets it

 

[Arsenal]

Where is the 1.000.000.000 for ROD and others problem?

That was written off in the previous quarter. They basically took all estimated future ROD charges at that time, so as long as they weren't too optimistic, you will never see anything related to that again.

I think it is obvious that they did this to clear up their statements to show that they can make a profit from that point forward. Getting that out of the way prior to the Halo 3 launch was not a coincidence

It will be interesting to see if MS can remain profitable from here on out though. I'd say that is a pretty fair bet, but a lot of it will have to do with how well their manufacturing processes are going.

 

[AstroLad]

Dang. That's a lot of M.I.A./Diplo tour shirts...

There's your Goodwill people, you can take off the tinfoil hats now.

 

[Arsenal]

Stock is blowing up in AH, haven't seen this kind of run in awhile.

10% - wow, impressive.

Euro stuff out of the way, Facebook locked in, 360+Halo = win.

 

[Rolf NB]

The 360 doesn't cost $350 for MSFT to make.

I never claimed it did. Actually, I never even claimed it cost 350$ to repair, which was the actual point of the conversation you are now barging into.

It's been less than $350 for a few months now.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[szaromir]

I wonder if Bungie going independent had any impact on these numbers, too.

 

[Gadfly]

So at this rate, how long is it going to take Sony to catch up to Microsoft?

I guess they have to go back in time!

Seriously though, next two quarters are crucial for Sony. They forecast they will 9 millions in next 6 months. No way Microsoft can sell 9 million 360s in the same time period.

 

[Zzoram]

I never claimed it did. Actually, I never even claimed it cost 350$ to repair, which was the actual point of the conversation you are now barging into.Pics or it didn't happen.

Wasn't there some article a few months back about how the 360 costs like $330 to make now? It could've just been analysts talking though.

 

[Zzoram]

I guess they have to go back in time!

Seriously though, next two quarters are crucial for Sony. They forecast they will 9 millions in next 6 months. No way Microsoft can sell 9 million 360s in the same time period.

No way Sony can sell 9 million PS3s in that period either :lol

Dude, Nintendo is only forecasting 10.5million or something in that period, and they're selling the hottest by far.

 

[[Nintex]]

I wonder if Bungie going independent had any impact on these numbers, too.

Not only Bungie, Bizarre and Bioware are no longer on MS's payroll as well.
MS is going great and finally making some money.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Updated:

Sold to Retail/Shipped

LTD:

PS3 - 5.59 million (11 months)
Wii - 13.17 million (11 months)
360 - 13.4 million (23 months)

Monthly average:

PS3 - 508,100 (per month)
360 - 582,600 (per month)
Wii - 1,197,200 (per month)

The average starts from first month for shipping, all of which were November.

Damn, that is pretty impressive.

 

[zou]

What you describe would cost 9.5 billion dollars if I use an average price of 350 dollars per machine.
9.5, as a number, is different from 1. So get your fucking math straight.

Whoops, yeah, that number did sound big.

Still, going with their repair price of $100 (is it?), and assuming they are actually making money at that point, they most likely can repair every single console out there.

when i divide a billion by 350, i get 28 and a half million.

maybe want to check your own math their buddy.

oops no i don't... heh.

Yeay, I'm not the only one =)

 

[p3tran]

PS3 - 508,100 (per month)
360 - 582,600 (per month)
Wii - 1,197,200 (per month)

The average starts from first month for shipping, all of which were November.

So at this rate, how long is it going to take Sony to catch up to Microsoft?

:lol

 

[Arsenal]

Lack of a 3.3 million selling MGS published title will bring the line down a bit, I think he's saying.

That also included a lot of marketing and other expenses related to the launch. Yes, it will bring down the line and the profit, but short of massive price drops, the division should remain profitable for the foreseeable future.

 

[RBH]

Wow @ the pathetic spinning by some people in this thread. :lol

 

[Stinkles]

I wonder if Bungie going independent had any impact on these numbers, too.

the no-more-pizza party budget was a huge savings.

 

[davepoobond]

pretty?

pretty ugly.

 

[clashfan]

Operating income, net income and diluted earnings per share for the quarter were $5.92 billion, $4.29 billion and $0.45, respectively.

Comes out to something like 1.43 billion pure profit per month.

Do you have parties at MS where everyone rolls around on piles of cash?

 

[Gadfly]

the no-more-pizza party budget was a huge savings.

our HR doesn't have to pay for "Pants Cops" anymore.

 

[Gadfly]

Do you have parties at MS where everyone rolls around on piles of cash?

Stcoks finally moved a little ($35 after hours). Too late for those of us that saw their $30 options expire a couple of months ago

 

[neptunes]

That official?For how long?

In terms of the average cost of components, this estimate was gather by iSuppli (marketing intelligence) last year.

Since then, they've had 2 motherboard revisions and have begun to roll out 65nm CPUs

It seems like the GPU is still the most expensive component of the system, and ironically the component the causes the most overheating. Having both GPU+CPU @ 65nm is key.

 

[Maxwell House]

And how do you suppose they are going to repeat this? Are they going to sell Bungie again?
And there still is no information how much of the 1B$ that was booked earlier was actually spent in this quarter, how much remains, or how much had to be added to the pot. Shifting your losses backwards in time is the second thing that's hard to do consistently, and it will show through once that pot of money runs out.

Well, I believe the 360 is sold at a profit now, and with their installed base and attach ratios, they are selling a ton of games to boot.

Really, I don't see why they wouldn't be profitable from here on out with the 360.

The 3Q 07 earnings only had 8 days of Halo 3 sales as well.

 

[Walshicus]

our HR doesn't have to pay for "Pants Cops" anymore.

I'm still waiting on the faux-eighties TV drama...

 

[Rolf NB]

Whoops, yeah, that number did sound big.

Still, going with their repair price of $100 (is it?), and assuming they are actually making money at that point, they most likely can repair every single console out there.

10 million repairs at 100$ a pop sounds about right.
I still insist that we don't have enough information to forecast a string of profitable quarters for the divisio. In particular, we do not know how much of the money that was spent during the quarter came from that pot of money set aside earlier, and consequently we don't really know how long that pot is going to last. That some money has been shifted between quarters is hardly a secret, it's official and publicized wide and far. We know this quarter's profitability is in part based on that time-shifting of expenses, we just don't know by how much. That's all.

Or actually, there's that other thing. I've searched and found the official splitup press release which says the change is "effective on Oct. 1, 2007". Hard to tell whether the money coming out of that buffed Microsoft's results for the past quarter or is going into the next (running) one.

 

[Culex]

Pretty damn impressive that Nintendo shipped only 230k less Wii than 360 with 1 year less on the market.

 

[Rolf NB]

Well, I believe the 360 is sold at a profit now, and with their installed base and attach ratios, they are selling a ton of games to boot.

Really, I don't see why they wouldn't be profitable from here on out with the 360.

The 3Q 07 earnings only had 8 days of Halo 3 sales as well.

Fair enough.
On the bolded part, besides games being heavily front-loaded, the revenue to Microsoft comes from sales to retailers (just like with their hardware numbers). There have been a lot of preorders for Halo 3. It will continue to sell, yes, but the largest part of the revenue has already been made.

 

[diddlyD]

In terms of the average cost of components, this estimate was gather by iSuppli (marketing intelligence) last year.

Since then, they've had 2 motherboard revisions and have begun to roll out 65nm CPUs

haha, ok so there is a $500+ manufacturing cost difference between the 360 and the ps3? are we really supposed to believe that?

 

[Zzoram]

In terms of the average cost of components, this estimate was gather by iSuppli (marketing intelligence) last year.

Since then, they've had 2 motherboard revisions and have begun to roll out 65nm CPUs

It seems like the GPU is still the most expensive component of the system, and ironically the component the causes the most overheating. Having both GPU+CPU @ 65nm is key.

Ya I think that's what I saw.

 

[neptunes]

haha, ok so there is a $500+ manufacturing cost difference between the 360 and the ps3? are we really supposed to believe that?

I.e This was taken around fall of last year. (2006)

It's now the end of 2007, and Both Sony & Microsoft changed the at least one major component since then.

 

[Maxwell House]

Fair enough.
On the bolded part, besides games being heavily front-loaded, the revenue to Microsoft comes from sales to retailers (just like with their hardware numbers). There have been a lot of preorders for Halo 3. It will continue to sell, yes, but the largest part of the revenue has already been made.

True, but Halo and Halo 2 sales show us that Halo 3 will most likely at least double or triple the numbers it did in the first 8 days over its lifetime. The Halo franchise historically has had very long legs.

And don't discount the effect having a Halo out on the 360 (finally) has on its monthly sales from here on out. I believe 360 will never reach the monthly lows it hit earlier this year again, until this generation is almost over.

 

[zou]

haha, ok so there is a $500+ manufacturing cost difference between the 360 and the ps3? are we really supposed to believe that?

The estimate is from last year, doesn't sound that far off to me.

Plus, if consider that SCE lost roughly $800 Million with around 2 Million PS3 shipped to retailers, already factoring in the profits from both PS2 and PSP, then yeah, why not.