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[gamz]

Most of those people aren't gamers. If they are they are on steam.

You don't have to be a "gamer" to play games. Since the store is baked it all you have to do is click on it and see what to play. It's quick, easy and safe.

I had no interest in PC gaming, but now I'm tempted as hell because it's in front of my face daily.
,
You are thinking way too small man.

 

[QaaQer]

ctrl-f "open"

:-(

 

[Trup1aya]

Sorry, I'm just still not quite understanding it.
Could you please explain it to me like I'm five?

You probably can't understand it because he's wrong. MS isn't "leaving" console gaming. They are just leveraging their existing strengths in hopes of attracting more dev support to all of their platforms.

Since day one the Xbox One has essentially been a low-mid Windows PC (it launched with Win8), but non-configurable, modified for a focus purely on entertainment and locked into closed marketplace. That's what makes it a console.

The vast majority of xb1 games start their life as PC games, then are ported to the console.

With UWP, none of that changes. The Xbox one is still a low-mid Windows PC (now running win10), it's still locked into a closed marketplace, and it still has a fixed configuration. It's still a console. The same will be the case for any subsequent Xbox hardware. The only thing that changes is that MS has a new API that (ideally) allows developers to more easily target multiplatforms at once with their games and apps.

It doesn't signal a departure from consoles. It signals a desire to use Win10's PC installed base to lure more content to the console, while simultaneously using the Xbox IPs to make the Win10 store more attractive to PC users (which will make it more attractive to devs)

 

[Graphics Horse]

"Xbox live active users are now over 48 million."

So like... almost 3 months ago?

Well the 360 market isn't going to stick around forever...

 

[twobear]

you would have thought that if ms is planning to get out of the console business they would, you know, mothball xbone and quietly drop support instead of investing time and money into integrating the platform with windows. it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me as a business plan, but maybe that's why i'm nearly 30 and still in school instead of managing a multi-billion dollar company.

 

[Arkanius]

you would have thought that if ms is planning to get out of the console business they would, you know, mothball xbone and quietly drop support instead of investing time and money into integrating the platform with windows. it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me as a business plan, but maybe that's why i'm nearly 30 and still in school instead of managing a multi-billion dollar company.

Because they are not doing it.
They are moving to a rolling release Xbox platform model.

 

[Pif]

When they say "apps" they mean Photoshop and uTorrent, or angry birds ?

Is the xbone gonna be able to run .exe files?

 

[QaaQer]

UWP games will hinge to a large degree on how widespread Windows 10 will be.

.

They need to get people to use the store, not just drive adoption of W10: no customers means no developers.

IDK what strategies they will be using to accomplish that, but I doubt they will be keeping pc software distribution as open and free as it is now. Windows Store competing only on the basis of better prices and better service for customers isn't all that profitable.

Again, they absolutely have to drive people into the store and get them locked or semi-locked in. It will fail otherwise.

 

[pezley]

You probably can't understand it because he's wrong. MS isn't "leaving" console gaming. They are just leveraging their existing strengths in hopes of attracting more dev support to all of their platforms.

Since day one the Xbox One has essentially been a low-mid Windows PC (it launched with Win8), but non-configurable, modified for a focus purely on entertainment and locked into closed marketplace. That's what makes it a console.

The vast majority of xb1 games start their life as PC games, then are ported to the console.

With UWP, none of that changes. The Xbox one is still a low-mid Windows PC (now running win10), it's still locked into a closed marketplace, and it still has a fixed configuration. It's still a console. The same will be the case for any subsequent Xbox hardware. The only thing that changes is that MS has a new API that (ideally) allows developers to more easily target multiplatforms at once with their games and apps.

It doesn't signal a departure from consoles. It signals a desire to use Win10's PC installed base to lure more content to the console, while simultaneously using the Xbox IPs to make the Win10 store more attractive to PC users (which will make it more attractive to devs)

Glad someone else gets this. Not sure why people are stating it's the end of Xbox. If anything it will make Xbox more popular with PC Dev's

 

[BeforeU]

As I said in the other thread, as long as their words are put into execution, it looks good.

Bullet points sound good, the key is the execution.

lol I have been reading these comments since Spencer took over and was talking about refocusing on PC.

Everyone here called it nothing but a BS. Just words, not action. Fast forward a year, we have many Xbox franchise coming to PC. Xbox app on PC continues to deliver.

 

[Moonstone]

UWP games will hinge to a large degree on how widespread Windows 10 will be. If creating a UWA will allow them to reduce development costs by only having to develop for PC and Xbox once instead of doing quite different builds that is a strong incentive for them to move there.

This cross compile might work for candy crush and the likes - but not for typical AAA console games. XBO has a different RAM architecture.

And then those developers have to do another normal PC build too, as there is Steam, GOG, Origin, Uplay, Win 8, Win 7 ...

This is only beneficial for MS developed games. For everybody else there is no reduction of development costs - quite the contrary.

 

[pitchfork]

you would have thought that if ms is planning to get out of the console business they would, you know, mothball xbone and quietly drop support instead of investing time and money into integrating the platform with windows. it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me as a business plan, but maybe that's why i'm nearly 30 and still in school instead of managing a multi-billion dollar company.

Well, they're clearly not getting out of the console business are they

 

[QaaQer]

you would have thought that if ms is planning to get out of the console business they would, you know, mothball xbone and quietly drop support instead of investing time and money into integrating the platform with windows. it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me as a business plan, but maybe that's why i'm nearly 30 and still in school instead of managing a multi-billion dollar company.

They are using xbox to get people into the Windows Store, which will attract developers to the Universal Windows Platform, which will then make their mobile division viable. The goal isn't shuttering xbox division, rather it is saving mobile.

Right now, buying a windows phone is idiotic because the lack of developer support makes it as useful as a phone running blackberryOS. Pushing UWP is their strategy for changing that.

 

[LordBaztion]

Pretty exciting future for Xbox ahead.
The death of traditional consoles has begun.

 

[Genio88]

Well looks like a great future, especially for someone like me who has both Xbox One and a gaming Windows 10 PC, can't wait to play those great games in crossbuy/crossplay/crosssynch/crossachievements on both Xbone and PC depending on the situation, starting with Quantum Sam Lake Awesome Break in a about 2 weeks.
Jump ahead!
#InPhiliBelieve

 

[wapplew]

This cross compile might work for candy crush and the likes - but not for typical AAA console games. XBO has a different RAM architecture.

And then those developers have to do another normal PC build too, as there is Steam, GOG, Origin, Uplay, Win 8, Win 7 ...

This is only beneficial for MS developed games. For everybody else there is no reduction of development costs - quite the contrary.

Let's see MS can prove UWA cross compile ability in AAA space on build.
This is their most important selling point of thier whole Eco system idea, everything fall apart if they can't make it work.

 

[QaaQer]

Pretty exciting future for Xbox ahead.

Care to elaborate? I don't see big investments in the brand, just leveraging what is there for other ends.

 

[LukasTaves]

I found that simply fantastic. It's everything I wanted for ms to do when they started the one platform talk.

Now, I need to see what incentives they are giving developers to support cross buy. There's a talk specially on this topic, hope they make some interesting announcements there as well.

lol I have been reading these comments since Spencer took over and was talking about refocusing on PC.

Everyone here called it nothing but a BS. Just words, not action. Fast forward a year, we have many Xbox franchise coming to PC. Xbox app on PC continues to deliver.

Yeah, ms is already delivering by their words. Heck they are already addressing issues people had with uwp games that were brought up when rise of tomb raider came out. I'm super confident they will make their platform awesome.

 

[Zedox]

UWP games will hinge to a large degree on how widespread Windows 10 will be. If creating a UWA will allow them to reduce development costs by only having to develop for PC and Xbox once instead of doing quite different builds that is a strong incentive for them to move there. I guess for most of those businesses the fact that code injection and other modding techniques don't work won't be a big issue (most are more "accepting" them instead of "encouraging it" and those who do seem to have the possibility to do so with UWAs as well (see Mod anouncement for FO4 on Xbox One)).

On the technical side UWAs seem to not be quite there yet (VSync, FreeSync, GSync, etc.) but what I take out of Microsoft's anouncements they seem to have a list of such issues that partners and internal studios have given them and they're working on addressing them.

From a developer perspective I can see the appeal of the UWP if enough people move to Windows 10 and going by Steam's numbers that seems to be a quite quick transition that might pick up speed once more DX12 games hit.

From the consumer perspective it might be a different story - we'll have to wait and see. I understand why many are hesitant going by Microsoft's past actions.

Basically this.

All programmers recognize this as total BS.

It is not going to happen. Not useful for any application that requires high performance applications i.e. Video Games.

Trying to be a jack of all trades just makes you that much weaker to your competetor like Sony that focuses on specilization.

Dafuq? Each platform will require specialized code but leveraging code to do some stuff for you is always rewarding and that is what UWP plans on doing. UWP isn't a quick "make AAA for PC, press a button and it works for Xbox exactly as you'd expect". It's about reducing a lot of the same code and most companies use middleware to achieve the same thing. That's why MS is in talks with those middleware technologies.

Glad someone else gets this. Not sure why people are stating it's the end of Xbox. If anything it will make Xbox more popular with PC Dev's

It's called hating. lol.

lol I have been reading these comments since Spencer took over and was talking about refocusing on PC.

Everyone here called it nothing but a BS. Just words, not action. Fast forward a year, we have many Xbox franchise coming to PC. Xbox app on PC continues to deliver.

He's been saying stuff and backing it up for the most part.

This cross compile might work for candy crush and the likes - but not for typical AAA console games. XBO has a different RAM architecture.

And then those developers have to do another normal PC build too, as there is Steam, GOG, Origin, Uplay, Win 8, Win 7 ...

This is only beneficial for MS developed games. For everybody else there is no reduction of development costs - quite the contrary.

Depends on how it is implemented.

 

[Genio88]

Care to elaborate? I don't see big investments in the brand, just leveraging what is there for other ends.

I see that instead, universal apps are the future, console won't be like they are today forever, they just can't they need to evolve somehow, Microsoft saw that and they're working for a future where every game can be purchased just one time and be played on every platform with Windows 10, being it a Tablet like Surface, a PC a Xbox or perhaps a Smartphone or Smart TV in the future, with everything synchronized across all the devices
Of course this is just the beginning, they can't change everything in once.
Also the great news is that we'll be able to play great games like Quantum Break, Forza or Gears on PC up to 4k/60fps with awesome quality

 

[QaaQer]

It's called hating. lol.

And this is called shutting down conversation: LOLHATERZGONNAHATE

Nobody here knows the long term strategy and it is silly to pretend otherwise.

 

[PG2G]

Occulus wants to sell games on thier storefront. Valve obviously wants to sell games on Steam. Why the hell would either want to support UWP. It only benifits the MS store ecosystem

Is that really how it works right now? I'd imagine game supports Steamer, Oculus, etc and it'd work no matter where you purchased said game.

If it is I'm surprised you guys aren't complaining more about that lol

 

[LordBaztion]

Care to elaborate? I don't see big investments in the brand, just leveraging what is there for other ends.

I expect traditional consoles model to fade in favor of a market similar to what we see for phones, evolving hardware and overall compatible software and I see that MS is leading the change with W10. I suppose it will take some time, probably until apple/google TVs can deliver the same gaming experience than a traditional consoles.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

There is no upgradeable xbox... Phil was talking about maybe in the future...it may not happen at all. People need to keep expectations in check.

You're right, i guess i expected a bit too much. But there's a reason he even mentioned it, i can definitely see it happening. But what he said was one of the reasons a lot of people out there started to believe MS was quitting the console business and turning it into a PC, oh and of course the closure of the two studios. There's a lot of crazy videos on Youtube full of hyperbole too, hilarious and stupid at the same time.

I wouldn't mind seeing such a future though, if they do it right.

The UWP is about decoupling software and hardware.
It allows developers to craft their engines more abstractly and run them on various devices without modifying much code.
This allows the software to be forward compatible, meaning it'll run on future devices.

I completely expect to see another Xbox console released this 'generation', more powerful than Xbox One but running the same games.

Yeah i definitely expect that as well, the question is when. I was discussing this with friends yesterday in party chat and one said what if Xbox One IS their last console and they will let you upgrade this one, when will its limit be reached? Let's say the PS5 comes out, and at the time the limit for upgrading the X1 has been reached, what will MS do? People have a lot of questions, especially after Phil Spencer mentioned it. Right now we don't even know how they would go about upgrading this console. But it's clear MS isn't quitting anything anytime soon.

 

[Night Angel]

And this is called shutting down conversation: LOLHATERZGONNAHATE

Nobody here knows the long term strategy and it is silly to pretend otherwise.

He's good at that. Just look at his posts in any MS strategy thread. Condescension and "lol" and smileys galore. Everyone in the room is an idiot except for him/people who agree with him.

 

[QaaQer]

I see that instead, universal apps are the future, console won't be like they are today forever, they just can't they need to evolve somehow, Microsoft saw that and they're working for a future where every game can be purchased just one time and be played on every platform with Windows 10, being it a Tablet like Surface, a PC a Xbox or perhaps a Smartphone or Smart TV in the future, with everything synchronized across all the devices

I agree with the bolded, and not just with games but every piece of Windows software. But what is the need for xbox specific hardware in that scenario?

 

[otakukidd]

Glad someone else gets this. Not sure why people are stating it's the end of Xbox. If anything it will make Xbox more popular with PC Dev's

Can I ask why? PC devs by large don't use Windows store. If anything it would make Windows store more popular cause of xbox than the other way around.

 

[PG2G]

I agree with the bolded, and not just with games but every piece of Windows software. But what is the need for xbox specific hardware in that scenario?

You need a box that is designed to sit in the living room and it should come from the platform holder. A lack of subsidized costs on the console will lead to the 3D0 model

 

[Saul]

I agree with the bolded, and not just with games but every piece of Windows software. But what is the need for xbox specific hardware in that scenario?

To deliver specific hardware for the console gamer, who just wants a box that, by default, runs all (most) upcoming UWP games in the next 4 years or such.

Also this box runs a customized version of Windows 10, optimized to use with a controller from the couch.

 

[Zedox]

And this is called shutting down conversation: LOLHATERZGONNAHATE

Nobody here knows the long term strategy and it is silly to pretend otherwise.

Pretty sure Phil said what his long term vision was for Xbox gaming. Playing your games where you want (devices, ie console, pc, phone, etc...) that you buy from them all connected by Xbox Live. He talked about evolving the hardware (console) when new advancements come in technology. I mean, he basically said what their future is. Now if someone doesn't want to believe him, that's on them. To me it falls in line with the rest of the Windows platform (devices and software).

I think it's silly to say that they'll go away from console gaming when he has stated otherwise. So when I see someone keep stating that, to me, it seems that they are just uninformed, in disbelief, or hating. That's my personal opinion.

 

[Clear]

Glad someone else gets this. Not sure why people are stating it's the end of Xbox.

Its because the endgame of this initiative is that the console hardware becomes entirely superfluous to the business model.

 

[Saul]

Pretty sure Phil said what his long term vision was for Xbox gaming. Playing your games where you want (devices, ie console, pc, phone, etc...) that you buy from them all connected by Xbox Live. He talked about evolving the hardware (console) when new advancements come in technology. I mean, he basically said what their future is. Now if someone doesn't want to believe him, that's on them. To me it falls in line with the rest of the Windows platform (devices and software).

I think it's silly to say that they'll go away from console gaming when he has stated otherwise. So when I see someone keep stating that, to me, it seems that they are just uninformed, in disbelief, or hating. That's my personal opinion.

qft

 

[Justinh]

Man, if they did away with sub fees like people have brought up, that feels like it'd be a big E3 moment.
The thing that would actually make me the most interested in that (*if it were to happen), is that it makes me think that they'd have to step up and give what more people want for GwG more frequently.

 

[Trup1aya]

When they say "apps" they mean Photoshop and uTorrent, or angry birds ?

Is the xbone gonna be able to run .exe files?

Now it runs UWAs... Which MS hopes developers will see as a replacement to exe's...

There's also nothing stopping devs from packaging existing .exe's as UWA's

 

[Majine]

I'd love for them to become a big Steam competitor. I feel like Valve needs some fire under their feets. The client and the experience of Steam feels old and crummy.

 

[wapplew]

I see that instead, universal apps are the future, console won't be like they are today forever, they just can't they need to evolve somehow, Microsoft saw that and they're working for a future where every game can be purchased just one time and be played on every platform with Windows 10, being it a Tablet like Surface, a PC a Xbox or perhaps a Smartphone or Smart TV in the future, with everything synchronized across all the devices
Of course this is just the beginning, they can't change everything in once.
Also the great news is that we'll be able to play great games like Quantum Break, Forza or Gears on PC up to 4k/60fps with awesome quality

I get your enthusiasm, but universal app are not the future, it's been there since the birth of iPad.
Buy a game played on every devices it's cool in theory, the reality is, not much game will take advantage of that.
People don't play phone games on console or play console games on phone.
For developer, they don't see your Eco system as a whole, they aim different input method and form factor, just like what they do today.
Slap win10 name on all devices doesn't make any different.

 

[ps3ud0]

Seems to boil down to semantics regards to what MS are currently doing means leaving the console space or doubling down on it. I think everyone agrees whatever fruit it bears wont really be like whats gone on in the past in the console business...

Both positions dont seem that important to argue about considering all the granularity we are now getting, just seems a poor distraction to induce arguments.

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Aesthet1c]

Man this is awesome news. I don't own an Xbox One, but if this means I can possibly play the new Gears or Scalebound on my PC when they release, sign me up. I'm already stoked we are getting Quantum Break, I just hope this will extend to more of their first party games.

 

[Ushay]

Those games were probably hamstrung by being primarily aimed at the Xbox One, in future games will be primarily aimed at the PC and probably run a lot better as UWP improves, whereas the Xbox One version are likely to be the one's running poorly and there might be some dodgy graphics issues with scaling down for the hardware etc.

Microsoft is switching it's focus to PC gaming and turning the Xbox One into a low end gaming PC so if you want the best experience with these games then I would imagine you'll find it on a high end gaming PC.



I don't know how much more confirmation you need, it's like saying the earth is round at this point.

This has been true since day 1, how does that elude to them exiting the console space?

Increasing API surface area ie improving accessibility for developers to build on whichever platform they desire allows multiplatform development. Multiplatform. I'll say that again .. Multiplatform ie multiple devices.

Where does it say they are pushing Xbox (console) support to nominal, you realise how moronic of a move that would be?

 

[shandy706]

What was your prediction - 360 BC games on PC?

Yep

I'm sure I'm not alone in it, but I've been thinking...and have said it here before..that they're working on 360 games being in Windows 10 too.

The whole UWP thing seems to be proof that's going to happen.



(guys that means RDR is coming to PC...finally...lol)

 

[AmFreak]

Yeah i definitely expect that as well, the question is when. I was discussing this with friends yesterday in party chat and one said what if Xbox One IS their last console and they will let you upgrade this one, when will its limit be reached? Let's say the PS5 comes out, and at the time the limit for upgrading the X1 has been reached, what will MS do? People have a lot of questions, especially after Phil Spencer mentioned it. Right now we don't even know how they would go about upgrading this console. But it's clear MS isn't quitting anything anytime soon.

What do you mean with limit in upgrading?
Why would there be a limit?
Upgrade is basically synonymous for "new console with bc".

 

[Clear]

Seems to boil down to semantics regards to what MS are currently doing means leaving the console space or doubling down on it. I think everyone agrees whatever fruit it bears wont really be like whats gone on in the past in the console business...

Both positions dont seem that important to argue about considering all the granularity we are now getting, just seems a poor distraction to induce arguments.

ps3ud0 8)

How can you incentivize sales of your bespoke hardware by taking away its key USP of offering experiences you cannot get elsewhere? You know, the fundamental premise of its competitor's offerings?

 

[KonradLaw]

every game can be purchased just one time and be played on every platform with Windows 10, being it a Tablet like Surface, a PC a Xbox or perhaps a Smartphone or Smart TV in the future, with everything synchronized across all the devices

That would be utterly terrible for any pc-centric game.

 

[Zedox]

He's good at that. Just look at his posts in any MS strategy thread. Condescension and "lol" and smileys galore. Everyone in the room is an idiot except for him/people who agree with him.

No, everyone is not an idiot besides people who agree with me. If you feel that way by my posts then that's on you. Take it how you want. But I guess my post history is going to tell you everything it is to know about me and how I feel towards everyone else judging by your quote here.

I find that the people who state MS is getting out of the console business are extremely reaching compared to the other way around (doubling down on consoles). I mean, why would a company even put Windows 10 on something that they were leaving? Why would they even make it possible to play Windows 10 apps on the Xbox itself? Why go through that hassle? Oh? Just to get OEMs to sell HTPCs branded as Xbox? That's a little farfetched to me. MS has a good consumer product but then has it tarnished PR wise (even more than they have) by OEMs like they do with Windows (and all that bloatware that comes with it)? I don't think that's good business sense.

Now I do see that if this plan for Xbox doesn't work that they could leave gaming all together but I feel (at least) that it will take a long time of continuous failure for that to happen.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

I'd love for them to become a big Steam competitor. I feel like Valve needs some fire under their feets. The client and the experience of Steam feels old and crummy.

I just wish that Valve start releasing games again but the truth is they don't have to.

 

[wildfire]

This is a really conflicting situation.

I've been interested in Windows being able to functional in any hardware.

For example I could make a shopping list at home or on the bus and when I arrive at the store I can access my account at a store and make sure it's an item I really want.

At the same time I don't see why such a platform needs to require certain things such as the MS store. MS certification makes sense but conceding them a lot of control through their store is a big step back and in the long run doesn't make the benefits worth it.

 

[CyberPunked]

I'm gaming on PC because I don't want a console experience :/

Well this is only for their games.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

This has been true since day 1, how does that elude to them exiting the console space?

Increasing API surface area ie improving accessibility for developers to build on whichever platform they desire allows multiplatform development. Multiplatform. I'll say that again .. Multiplatform ie multiple devices.

Where does it say they are pushing Xbox (console) support to nominal, you realise how moronic of a move that would be?

You kind of answered your own question. They're taking the future Xbox library multiplatform. The very nature of multiplat development means games may not be as optimized on Xbox One, and no PR-laden excuses about "unified development" and "API integration" is going to change that.

 

[PG2G]

It doesn't sound like the Windows Store is going to be the only way to distribute UWP, like Phil hinted. That announcement is supposed to come at Build, not GDC if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[otakukidd]

What do you mean with limit in upgrading?
Why would there be a limit?
Upgrade is basically synonymous for "new console with bc".

Hes talking about a updates xbox every year or 2 and games being released will work on all of different xboxs just with varying degrees of graphics. Eventually there will be a limit where the xbox 2 you buy won't work with games they make anymore cause they will need to eventually cut off support. Like there might be games for the iPhone 6 but those games won't work on the 4.