dragonelite
Member
I played a bit with uwp and i had no problems to get my app deployed and running on pc and my win10 mobile device. But that was a c# project, don't
know how easy a native uwp project might work.
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Microsoft Shares Vision for the Future of Windows and Xbox One Game Development
- Thread starter SPDIF
- Start date
I played a bit with uwp and i had no problems to get my app deployed and running on pc and my win10 mobile device. But that was a c# project, don't
know how easy a native uwp project might work.
I think the bigger issue here is that the fact that these shortcomings of the store exist in the first place is kind of a huge red flag that Microsoft doesn't really know what they're doing.
Even going beyond gaming, the Windows store is an absolute mess of malware and fake apps with absolutely zero quality control. It's like if a restaurant opened and sold expired food and then pledged they'd get that sorted out by the end of the year. That's kind of too little, too late, when your competitors already have a proper handle on the basics you're struggling with. And unified code bases for multiple platforms is already a solved problem which goes well beyond just "Windows" devices. I'm not really seeing what this brings to the table that isn't already doable, and on far more devices, like all those indie games that have versions for Windows, Mac, Linux, Xbox, PS4, PS3 and PSVita. This just reeks of smoke with the only "benefit" being that Microsoft will now theoretically get a 20% cut or whatever of Windows apps sold, which is more than the 0% it currently is (and, it should be noted, the fact that they were a free-for-all to code for is exactly why Microsoft grew so big and powerful in the first place, when all of its competitors were locked ecosystems).
And you really shouldn't take anything Microsoft promises for the future at face value (or any large company/politician/whatever), Microsoft especially has a history of not delivering on its promises. They were saying all Xbox Ones would be dev kits three years ago (since before the console's release) and that has yet to happen. They promised it would happen "this year" in 2014, and again in 2015. It's now neither of those years.
Even going beyond gaming, the Windows store is an absolute mess of malware and fake apps with absolutely zero quality control. It's like if a restaurant opened and sold expired food and then pledged they'd get that sorted out by the end of the year. That's kind of too little, too late, when your competitors already have a proper handle on the basics you're struggling with. And unified code bases for multiple platforms is already a solved problem which goes well beyond just "Windows" devices. I'm not really seeing what this brings to the table that isn't already doable, and on far more devices, like all those indie games that have versions for Windows, Mac, Linux, Xbox, PS4, PS3 and PSVita. This just reeks of smoke with the only "benefit" being that Microsoft will now theoretically get a 20% cut or whatever of Windows apps sold, which is more than the 0% it currently is (and, it should be noted, the fact that they were a free-for-all to code for is exactly why Microsoft grew so big and powerful in the first place, when all of its competitors were locked ecosystems).
And you really shouldn't take anything Microsoft promises for the future at face value (or any large company/politician/whatever), Microsoft especially has a history of not delivering on its promises. They were saying all Xbox Ones would be dev kits three years ago (since before the console's release) and that has yet to happen. They promised it would happen "this year" in 2014, and again in 2015. It's now neither of those years.
I expect MS to offer a product that meets that challenge - my point is that some may call that a prebuilt PC with a tailored OS while others might just see it as another console - just seems to be 2 sides of the same coin...
Rather talk about UWA/UWP now we are starting to see more info on it - so we know whats happening and embrace/push back on those particular points
ps3ud0 8)
It will be the same for a C# project to put that on XBO (ms showed that off last year) but for DirectX12 games (which you alluded to) it will be different. I don't know the semantics in the differences but there will be differences. The Xbox does have special APIs for it when you code, so that's where a lot of differences are going to lie for the developers, well at least the ones that don't rely on middleware for most of their programming.
univbee said:
I agree with everything you said here besides the malware.
Okay dude you are welcome to your conspiracies and stupid opinions
But there is no malware in the windows store...you must have it confused with android
You are a tad off the rails here. Think it over and get back to us.
If MS doesnt want something, they cut it off like a bad limb out of nowhere with no warning
see
Kinect
Zune
Don Mattrick
Kin
Windows Phone 7
Lionhead (unfortunately)
They don't fund brand new IP's for it, dedicate their own top engineers towards continuously updating it, have a CEO who's excited about it in terms of profit and mindshare and talk about continuously releasing more hardware iterations of it.
It's still a POSSIBLE future where MS leave consoles behind, but their current plan is not that, its the opposite. Theyre just getting there fingers in as many pies as they can with UWP. If they wanted Xbox gone, it wouldve been gone by now.
LukasTaves
Member
You are thinking of today's phones. Ms bet on the universal platform is aimed at the next thing. Not just having an app that can run on any platform, but to also have apps that adapt when the device changes. We are already seeing it with continuum. Phone apps becomes the same as the desktop ones when you connect to an external monitor and keyboard/mouse.
Fast forward to the future and we could have cell phones + plus a dock that would transform your phone into a console. Then it already makes sense having the apps run there, even if it's a game unplayable when in phone mode.
This year continuum will expand to the experience changing across devices as well, so we'll essentially have save state and other cools features coming from that. Think of this scenario: You are at home playing on a console, setting up a online match. For some reason you have to go somewhere, but in that place you'd be able to continue playing. You take your phone, your controller and a very small dock, while on the go your session is still active and when you arrive you can just dock your phone and play, even if the settings are reduced compared to console.
I disagree. The endgame has the console becoming extremely more attractive to the market.
UWP is intended to be an API for development on any platform, distributed on storeftont... Just like Win32... The API you'd find on steam or oculus storefronts...
Yep....they will talk more about this at build but the lack of ease right now has more to do with the age of the platform than anything else...few other stores have any need to selll uwa's other than microsoft store. A few years from now we will see uwas coming from other providers
A lot's going to depend on which definition of "malware" you go with, although there were a lot of paid versions of VLC and iTunes which were just PDF's with instructions on how to download the actual free app. And a ton of IP theft.
https://twitter.com/tylersigman/status/569601312217632768?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
This was a serious problem for the first two years of the Windows Store.
I agree with what you are saying. Besides the kin, all of those platforms took a while before MS gave up (besides Mattrick even tho he was there for a bit). Windows Phone is still there, it just became Windows 10 mobile. The OS itself wasn't updated to 8 and 8 (apparently today, rumors say) is going to upgrade to 10 (but we don't know which devices). Lionhead has been making FL for a while now and got shut down, Kinect has been there since 360, they evolved it but it is still there.
So yes, they will move things out, I 100% agree with you, but MS still takes a while to kill something when it is out on the market (that was my point in that last sentence of what you quoted). Only the Kin died really quick. Even Zune went through multiple iterations before being killed.
univbee said:
I def know all the issues MS had with the store and yep, definitely was a serious problem. They "said" they would address it, but I don't know how much that is true. I still see a bunch of fluff apps in there (granted I don't get those apps that look like they aren't real) so we'll see. It's definitely better than Windows 8 but that's not saying much at all. The IP theft was crazy and I was apprehensive on making an app on the store for that reason. We'll see how things shake out when they a more serious effort into the store. But yea, I agree that there were a ton of issues with the store.
Of course. If you can nail just about everystore with UWA you are gonna use it.
First wave consists of 2 games, second game as well. That's some commitment to PC gaming you got there Microsoft (thank god).
Would it be crazy to assume the next Xbox console will literally be a PC with a small form factor, running a locked down version of Windows 10 where you can only install UWAs?
Would it be crazy to assume the next Xbox console will literally be a PC with a small form factor, running a locked down version of Windows 10 where you can only install UWAs?
Is there an advantage to making a uwa game on steam than what they are doing now.
The Kin was a disaster from the get go. That was a cluster to read about. Hell, the Zune still has a cult following and it still is the OS which everything you see now is inspired. Sorry, I always have a soft spot for that damn device.
I would assume that you can hit Steam, Windows 10 games, and Xbox games in one shot.
I still have my original Zune device (black). I wanted a ZuneHD, my roommate had/has it. Such a beautiful device...phones took over that type of device.
Thats what it is now.
The PS4 is also a locked-down system with a PC architecture
The NX will probably be that too
This is the norm this gen.
Of course you have to start with your own properties and you have to start somewhere. Start small. perfect it. and go balls out once the kinks are worked out.
Better for the end user in terms of system stability...some publishers might prefer it ...some features might require it going on (multi plane overlays)
So does this means that this will be the last xbox?
It's better that they move back to PC for good reasons:
- Pc could play low/high-end games in gfx terms. So people can choice what price they want to pay.
- Easy and cheap development
- With a dongle you can easy tream it with 0 latency to your TV.
- they can develop for one system and support hololens better
Why should you still need a console if the pc can do allot more than that?
It's better that they move back to PC for good reasons:
- Pc could play low/high-end games in gfx terms. So people can choice what price they want to pay.
- Easy and cheap development
- With a dongle you can easy tream it with 0 latency to your TV.
- they can develop for one system and support hololens better
Why should you still need a console if the pc can do allot more than that?
Games being a uwp has nothing to do with them being on pc.
I can't anymore. Just can't.
I think Xbox will still exist, not everybody wants to play on PC so Microsoft will still release the Xbox for those who just want a preassembled gaming machine with average performance, and they'll release new models more often like every 2 or 3 years
JayWood2010
Member
Consoles = Mainstream Product (Mass Market Appeal)
Gaming PC's = Gaming Enthusiasts
Xbox Live = 48 Million Active Accounts
Steam Concurrent Users 12 Million (Don't know active accounts)
Xbox One Hardware = 20+ Million
Hardware vs Software = Console makers generally make most of their money from Software, and at times even sell consoles at a loss to gain market share.
Witcher 3 Sales = 1.2 Million on PC, total 10 million shipped across all platforms.
What does Microsoft gain from going both console and PC? They expand their user base and in return profits more with both the Xbox platform (Xbox Live) and the games they sell. Quantum Break no longer appeals to just 20m Xbox's, but the 12m Concurrent users on Steam (and more depending on active accounts) if those gamers view the Windows Store as well.
I dont know why people are saying Xbox is exiting the console market, as they are not exiting it, they are expanding it. This seems pretty obvious really. They will continue to sell Xbox One to the mass market as they usually do with millions of customers during the holidays, and they will also be appealing to the gaming enthusiasts who prefer playing on PC with beefed up specs.
Gaming PC's = Gaming Enthusiasts
Xbox Live = 48 Million Active Accounts
Steam Concurrent Users 12 Million (Don't know active accounts)
Xbox One Hardware = 20+ Million
Hardware vs Software = Console makers generally make most of their money from Software, and at times even sell consoles at a loss to gain market share.
Witcher 3 Sales = 1.2 Million on PC, total 10 million shipped across all platforms.
What does Microsoft gain from going both console and PC? They expand their user base and in return profits more with both the Xbox platform (Xbox Live) and the games they sell. Quantum Break no longer appeals to just 20m Xbox's, but the 12m Concurrent users on Steam (and more depending on active accounts) if those gamers view the Windows Store as well.
I dont know why people are saying Xbox is exiting the console market, as they are not exiting it, they are expanding it. This seems pretty obvious really. They will continue to sell Xbox One to the mass market as they usually do with millions of customers during the holidays, and they will also be appealing to the gaming enthusiasts who prefer playing on PC with beefed up specs.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Well that's my opinion on the way microsoft is taking gamiing would be more of a service than a hardware.
Of course they'll keep selling consoles to avoid denying a huge part of the market, but I see a future where you do not buy a Xbox, but a windows store console.
I think that's what a lot of people here means by exiting the console market it's just merging their PC and Console market.
Considering the sales of the Xbox it would be the most clever move from microsoft to do.Allowing a lot more MAU's (just kiddind), but their games could be bought and pleyed by much more.Financially it would be really interesting for them even more considerieng that Xbox doesn't bring revenue to microsoft it's just the software sales that bring up cash.
Based on Microsoft's past endeavors on PC, I'm going to assume it'll be an amazingly awful implementation that they abandon within 2 years.
Microsoft can keep saying "it'll be different this time" and I'll just keep laughing until I see some actual fucking improvement. The current implementation of UWA is hilariously bad.
Microsoft can keep saying "it'll be different this time" and I'll just keep laughing until I see some actual fucking improvement. The current implementation of UWA is hilariously bad.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Care to provide a link to said 'malware' infested apps? That defeats the entire point of the store.. quality control.
Considering it's their most important metric of success nowadays, I think it's not a great sign that it has barely if at all grown over the past couple of months.
Here's just one recent example:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/23/8090047/darkest-dungeon-illegal-windows-store
Not malware, but scam software. It's not QCed at all.
More links about various other problem apps:
http://www.itproportal.com/2015/02/23/windows-store-infested-illegal-apps-malware/
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-infested-windows-store,news-19369.html
http://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cesspool-of-scams-why-doesnt-microsoft-care/
They've pledged to "keep it clean" however.
Some interesting stuff there for sure. Still see the Live fee on XB1 as a blocker for them now as they try and expand. It's not gonna fly on PC no matter what they do IMHO nor on other devices.
Much more focus on PC, Live and channels than console which is interesting in terms of further aligning with their shift in focus. Not saying they're dropping consoles but the role of their own console has clearly changed and at least in the short term I feel has diminished for them vs broader play (more akin to having their own mobile device vs trying to own the market).
Much more focus on PC, Live and channels than console which is interesting in terms of further aligning with their shift in focus. Not saying they're dropping consoles but the role of their own console has clearly changed and at least in the short term I feel has diminished for them vs broader play (more akin to having their own mobile device vs trying to own the market).
I completely agree with you in regards to the Live fee. They WILL have to clarify it one day.
They basically are moving away from the Xbox as a console (as we know consoles) & making it part of the Windows devices. They might stick with the name for their Windows TV device that comes next but it's already laid out that they are moving away from the way things are now.
TheHellsLord
Member
They need to prove that releasing triple AAA games on the Windows Store only can be a success. That's why their own games release there. However if Windows 10 adoption is big enough and the cost savings by doing a UWA vs. Win32 (for Steam, etc.) + UWA (for Xbox) is big enough I can see the business decision being made to go for UWA only. The number of people who say: "I won't buy anywhere but Steam" is in the grand scheme of things too small.
This isn't necessarily true of Indies who make decissions a lot more often based on principle than the likes of EA and Co. And in the end it's a lot easier to get people to use a different store than get them to change their OS (because the majority just doesn't care about who they buy from).
Going by all that I'd argue that Windows 10 adoption is the more important metric. Getting people in their store is comparatively easy as soon as the next "must play game" arrives exclusively there.
I think if they get their Xbox players to transition to their Windows device platform players smoothly they will not see any difference in paying for Xbox Live for Xbox One vs paying for it on their Windows devices. it's just the PC gamers who will draw the red flag & ask why they have to pay for something that they could always do for free before.
Ol No Bones
Banned
They have already stated that XBL mp functionality is free on PC so no reason to wonder. They are bringing games to PC partially because they see the future of a platform among many devices and in the short term they have to do something to get people to look at the Windows Store and they see games as the way to do that. When people see Halo 6 running on the surface 7 that will make people think twice about getting an iPad pro 3 or whatever. They see games as a way to get people in their ecosystem similar to what ITunes was for Apple.
I'm not talking about stores. I'm talking open to developers like the Apple Store where you don't have to sign a bunch of paperwork, ask for dev kits or permission just to release a game.
Ol No Bones
Banned
So you want a store flooded with stupid shit?
Do you honestly do anything aside from trolling Microsoft at any chance you get ?
This is getting tiring.
im not trolling anyone but MS at this point is just throwing random things into people´s eyes wich are not true. They keep saying the same thing every single year.
First Windows Store is small and bad and nobody here really thinks otherwise and tbh Google Play is like xtimes bigger than them aswell Apple Store, those are just FACTS.
Another Fact is that Steam is much bigger than Xbox Live and PSN is also much much bigger and with Ps4 sales is just going to get bigger.
So DEVS should be targeting Ps4, Steam, Apple Store or Google Play, NOT Windows Store if they want the biggest piece of the market.
Please tell me how i am wrong or trolling.
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-play-store-vs-the-apple-app-store-601836/