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Miles Edgeworth: Ace Attorney Official Thread of Investigating and Pointing Fingers
- Thread starter ShockingAlberto
- Start date
ScrabbleDude
Member
Really? I thought it was extremely obvious in case 2 and 3. In fact, I knew the guilty party as soon as they were introduced in those cases. I'm in case 4 now and I'm pretty sure the guilty party is again the most obvious person, but I'm not completely positive yet.Rez said:
Shotgun Kiss
Member
upandaway said:
I also expect to see Lang again, and I certainly hope so, but there's no reason that they couldn't have fleshed him out just a little bit more in this game. When a character has a such a huge grudge against a person or an entire profession, I'd like a little more explanation than a couple of lines of text.
Pureauthor said:
The way I see it, Apollo Justice was like Metal Gear Solid 2. Phoenix isn't the playable character, but he's very much the main character, as it's his story. One that can only be told effectively from somebody else's perspective. Focusing too much on the other characters would detract from that and make it their story.
I think that AJ was supposed to serve as a "bridge" game, a means of introducing a new cast of characters and starting anew, but also waving off Phoenix (I'm guessing he'll be in future AJ games, but will have a much smaller role) in order to prevent players from feeling too alienated at being forced to forget everything and everybody cold-turkey and starting from scratch. I think under the circumstances, it's OK that the other characters didn't receive too much attention. Their personalities were established, in this game, and I expect the next game to build upon that and give them their own stories.
By the way, there's one thing that really bugs me about AAI (Endgame Spoilers)
How in hell's name didn't anybody - Byrne Faraday, Detective Tyrell Badd, Judges, whatever - not realise that Calisto Yew wasn't Cace Yew's sister? I mean, I know this is the Ace Attorney Universe, but... jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!
I could probably accept it if Cece had a sister and Calisto was just posing as her, but I think they said that Cece never HAD a sister, and... apparently they didn't realise that for months?
I could probably accept it if Cece had a sister and Calisto was just posing as her, but I think they said that Cece never HAD a sister, and... apparently they didn't realise that for months?
But the question is, when would Lang reappear? I have doubts that he would show up eight years later in AA5 (assuming that 5 picks up where 4 left off), especially when a number of other fan favorite characters from the first "era" weren't even mentioned. So that would mean his only chance is in something like a sequel to AAI. I'd almost be tempted to say he could be the main character of an Investigations 2, since it's actually his job to investigate and arrest suspects (unlike Edgeworth, who has apparently graduated from the CSI School of Doing Way More Than Your Job Dictates), but considering his personality type and his "detainment philosophy" that wouldn't work with the gameplay of the series. Unless they make a direct Edgeworth sequel, he's kind of stuck in nowhere-land, I'm afraid.Ben2749 said:
Completely agree. Dropping the Phoenix arc entirely would have been highly disorienting to series fans, but they wanted to move on to a fresh cast as well. Phoenix had to lose his attorney's badge somehow, because otherwise he could just super-lawyer his way around every case and Apollo would be rendered pointless. The way that AA4 played out is really the only way it could have played out with any sense of closure, and now the reigns have been passed on to Apollo and Trucy.Ben2749 said:
TheCardPlayer
Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
ScrabbleDude said:
Oh they are. Game's my favorite AA title, but damn it's so easy to find the culprit each time. :lol
Then again, thinking about the other games...it was never really hard at all.
charlequin
Banned
Doorman said:
I think there's at least a reasonable chance that there will indeed be such a title at some point.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Yeah, I would actually be surprised if we *didn't* eventually get a sequel to AAI. The Phoenix line of games are over, but Edgeworth is a fan-favourite, and a great way of keeping that arc and it's characters around, and largely seperate from the Apollo Justice line of games (which take place in the future, and have their own characters to expand upon).
Not only do I love each and every single Ace Attorney game, but I love the way it's been handled; splitting it into two seperate series after Phoenix' own games wrapped up was the perfect way to do it. Apollo Justice receives so much undeserved hate, when it was the ONLY way they could have advanced the series. And they did it perfectly, in my opinion.
Not only do I love each and every single Ace Attorney game, but I love the way it's been handled; splitting it into two seperate series after Phoenix' own games wrapped up was the perfect way to do it. Apollo Justice receives so much undeserved hate, when it was the ONLY way they could have advanced the series. And they did it perfectly, in my opinion.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Case 5 spoilers
Can't believe people actually didn't see Calisto being Lang's assistant. It was the most obvious plot twist into the game. You could already tell about it with both profile faces on the Organizer
Freakinchair
Member
Ben2749 said:
I think alot of the hate for Apollo Justice is that we spent the last three games playing as Pheonix, going through many "trials and tribulations" and really becoming/empathizing with that character to... being some nobody with a completely retarded haircut :lol
Not only that, he acts unprofessional and childlike during cases and, for the most part, seems to rely on other people bailing him out most of the time instead of coming up with his own logic. Maybe it's just a fault of being the "first" in his series but I genuinely don't like the character nearly as much as Pheonix.
With that said, I just ordered Investigations and am hoping it arrives soon - you guys have been saying its good so I'll give it a shot (even though my favorite parts of AA were in the courtroom).
ShockingAlberto
Member
Man, you really don't remember 1-1 or 1-2, do you?Freakinchair said:
Shotgun Kiss
Member
thefro said:
Shoehorned? Like I said above, Phoenix was definitely the main character in AA4. Between the first and last case (which are definitely the most significant ones; the other two are filler), it's pretty obvious that it's his story.
And I don't see any reason to say that his friends "abandoned" him. Just because you don't see any of them doesn't mean they've ditched him. The only two characters who are even particularly close to him are Maya and Pearl, and it's entirely reasonable that they're busy training in Kurain Village. After all, don't forget that Maya is off training during Case 5 of the original PW. Hell, in one of the AJ cases, if you examine a pile of DVD's (I think they're even Steel Samurai ones), Phoenix specifically says that a friend keeps sending him them.
Besides, if Maya and Pearl did show up (or even just Maya), it would take too much attention away from the new cast of characters, especially Trucy. Phoenix is still the main character, but since AJ is supposed to act as a bridge game, it still needed to establish it's own cast, and make sure that people started to care about them, rather than clinging on to the old characters.
Freakinchair said:
To be honest, I don't really see how he differs from Phoenix in that regard. The original PW in particular, saw Phoenix treated like dirt by just about everybody.
To be honest though, I've always thought that Phoenix himself was one of the less interesting characters in the original trilogy. He was good, and I had no problems with him, but seeing as you were playing the games from his perspective, you were exploring other cases and other people. I certainly don't think it helped that you never actually saw him in the Investigation phases. It wasn't until the first case of T&T that he was fleshed out a bit, and then it was Apollo Justice that gave him his own big storyline.
Freakinchair
Member
ShockingAlberto said:Man, you really don't remember 1-1 or 1-2, do you?
Its been awhile, but I meant more like how he sticks his finger on his forehead when he tries to think REALLY hard. Or how he calls everyone 'sir' and stammers all the time. Little things that annoy me
Don't get me wrong, I loved the game - Its just I wish they would have created a more mature hero character.
Gonna go replay 1-1 and 1-2 now to refresh my memory though :lol
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
dragonlife29 said:Holy fucking shit.
I just finished a few minutes ago and...
I think it's in my top 3 favorite AA games. I don't know, I'm really going to have to replay the rest now, which will be awesome since I've left them unplayed long enough to be unsure of the details
I fucking loved case 4, and I thinkCalisto Yew is a fucking awesome character.
These were my theories :lol:
"'Okay, she's a man! She's gotta be! I mean, just listen to that 'Objection!'"
"All right, dragonlife29, keep an eye out for anyone with a similar build as Calisto Yew in Case 5, be it man or woman!"
*you slowly start to suspect Shih-na's involved in the murder*
*Epic Testimony tune plays, you corner her...and she laughs, clutching her sides with a big "=D"*
...
"What. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!? OMG!" I seriously just sat there like an idiot, mouth open and staring blankly at my roof as if there were someone around for me to tell, "Dude..."
I can't believe I was fucking duped into thinking Shih-na was her own character until the very end. Goddamn. So much so that I didn't even bother thinking of her as possibly being Calisto Yew!
Also, Calisto Yew is a fucking awesome character--at least, I think so. But I think I already said that
Also: CALISTO YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWW!!! Please appear in future AA games!!! <3
I agree, they developed
Caliso Yew extremely well, she would have made the perfect final villain. If they didn't turn Alba into the supervillain in the end, she would have been the perfect one to take down.
CornBurrito
Member
I'm loving the game so far, which isn't surprising seeing as I loved all the AA games (even the 2nd one).
I got to the end of the
case. I lol'ed at the double standard, but that's why I love the series.
Double standard:
I got to the end of the
kidnapping
Double standard:
Lang: Meekins did it for sure!
ME: But Officer Meekins has no motive!
Lang: So what? Lack of a motive means nothing.
Later
ME: Lance Amano did it!
Lang: BUT LANCE AMANO HAS NO MOTIVE!
ME: Damn, I need to prove that he had a motive.
ME: But Officer Meekins has no motive!
Lang: So what? Lack of a motive means nothing.
Later
ME: Lance Amano did it!
Lang: BUT LANCE AMANO HAS NO MOTIVE!
ME: Damn, I need to prove that he had a motive.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Jintor said:
I'm pretty sure this was explained in the game. IIRC the files were given to Edgeworth to look after when Faraday was killed.
Ben2749 said:
I partly disagree. Phoenix was put in AJ because Capcom wanted him to be in there. Without him, the game would have been VERY different. I'm pretty sure Apollo would have been a different character as well.
But your right, since Phoenix was in there, AND it had to be explained why he lost his badge, it mostly became all about him.
semiconscious
Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
yeah, she kinda stole the whole show for me. considering you're playing as edgeworth, there had to be someone who was constantly goofing on his whole pompous trip, & the obvious choice would've been kay. but having it be the person who turns out to be the nastiest villain in the game (alba was a disappointment) was a stroke of genius. not my favorite game in the series, but she went a long way in making it as much fun as it was...
that said, a 13 year old franziska was worth the price of admission, too . & uncle badd was bad...
that said, a 13 year old franziska was worth the price of admission, too
. & uncle badd was bad...Well, Apollo did take his first case even younger than Phoenix did, and given the direction that his first case took, I think it made a little sense that he was nervous about it. Phoenix--and hell, even Mia--displayed similar jitters in their early cases, but they had time to grow into their own. I thought that Apollo and Klavier both handled themselves very well by the fourth case.Freakinchair said:Its been awhile, but I meant more like how he sticks his finger on his forehead when he tries to think REALLY hard. Or how he calls everyone 'sir' and stammers all the time. Little things that annoy me
Don't get me wrong, I loved the game - Its just I wish they would have created a more mature hero character.
Gonna go replay 1-1 and 1-2 now to refresh my memory though :lol
As for complaints that Apollo got bailed out too much...I always can't help but wonder if people have simply forgotten the other games or something. Phoenix got a number assists from other characters over most of the games. That's where most of those last-second "HOLD IT!" courtroom moments came from. Mia remained a crutch for Phoenix for a long time, both through Maya and the occasional last-second random psychic "think outside the box" pep talks. Just give Apollo his "what it means to be a lawyer" moment the way that Phoenix and Miles had to go through, and he'll be just fine.
Now, back to the topic. Regarding last bosses,
I thought that Calisto was a great character and a great villain, but I don't think she could be the last culprit. Since everything about "Calisto" turned out to be BS and she was just a mole for the smuggling ring the whole time, we don't actually know anything about her motivations. She's just a cool spy that followed orders, and while I liked her more than Alba, it would have been just as much of a stretch to have her be the mastermind of everything, too.
Plus, going with Alba at least let them use his connections as an ambassador. I just wonder how many more people in "untouchable" positions the writers can possibly look to.
Plus, going with Alba at least let them use his connections as an ambassador. I just wonder how many more people in "untouchable" positions the writers can possibly look to.
Lastly, something I found very strange about the last case:
Did anybody else find it strange how Edgeworth puts such a big amount of debate into presenting the trump card and video as "illegal evidence," and they even give you a choice about it, but ultimately all of that meant nothing? I at least though the fact that it was not going to be usable in court would come up, but after all of that internal debate, nobody cared.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Ben2749 said:
This is being anal, but it's not actually split. Apollo's game is really "Ace Attorney 4", not "Apollo Justice 1". Then there's Edgeworth and his spinoff.
I don't hate Apollo or his game, though, so I'm not disagreeing with you.
semiconscious
Member
Doorman said:
y'know, i'd forgotten about that (maybe because the game did, too ). it was weird - i opted not to use it as evidence, but then everyone ganged up on me, & made me use it, anyway. i don't know whether there were going to be 2 routes you could take, & they just passed on it, or what, but it was kinda strange...
). it was weird - i opted not to use it as evidence, but then everyone ganged up on me, & made me use it, anyway. i don't know whether there were going to be 2 routes you could take, & they just passed on it, or what, but it was kinda strange...dragonlife
Member
Yeah, I really wantedHcoregamer00 said:
to bring her down in an even cooler fashion than we did (though I can't imagine anything at the moment ). I'm not complaining, though, since I loved the fact that she meant business, what with holding Kay at gunpoint and all.
). I'm not complaining, though, since I loved the fact that she meant business, what with holding Kay at gunpoint and all.I laughed, too, and I'm glad I'm not the only that caught it :lol I did more of a, "Wait, what? Just a while ago you--!"Obsessed said:
Pureauthor
Member
charlequin said:
It's not the personality, it's the development of the characters. And regardless, I don't really care all that much about the popular or major criticisms of the game - it's just what I found to be lacking in AA4.
Doorman said:
I read that as the game designers ultimately just focusing their personal views onto me (as a law student, I was actually thinking pretty hard about that whole thing). Their deal is that 'justice' is above the law; or to put it the way Edgeworth did, if someone was above the law in their crime than the evidence of their crime should also be above the law. Which rendered what I thought was a rather gruelling decision completely moot.
That said, courts can use illegal evidence (depending on jurisdiction), so it's not the huuuuuuuge dilemma I'm thinking it up to be. But I was still very annoyed at being railroaded.
That said, courts can use illegal evidence (depending on jurisdiction), so it's not the huuuuuuuge dilemma I'm thinking it up to be. But I was still very annoyed at being railroaded.
By the way, (Case 5)
Why was Alba running a smuggling ring anyway? The dude was like a royal hero and shit. The most I remember getting out of Edgeworth and Lang was a "I guess power corrupts" line and that was, like, it.
Hours Left
Member
So I thought I'd just add in some post game thoughts.
-Pros-
Excellent New Cast of Characters
This is probably my favorite part of the game. I don't think an Ace Attorney game has ever introduced so many intriguing and well designed characters in one game, which is saying something as character development and design is one of the series's strong points. I'm eagerly awaiting the return of
Refreshing Gameplay
The new focus on investigation and logic was a nice change of pace for the series. While you may miss the court scenes at first, once you come to terms with the fact that this is supposed to be different than a standard AA game, it really starts to get in the groove.
I don't want to say to much for people that haven't played the game yet all the way through yet, but I don't think I can express how happy I am that
I think it really enhanced the narrative.
Another Solid Soundtrack
While not the strongest soundtrack of the series, it did have many stand out pieces. Lang & Badd's themes are some of my favorite songs in the entire series.
Appealing Graphics
At first I thought the walking sprites lacked a bit of presence, but they really began to grow on me as the game progressed, I still think they could be spiffed up a bit though. But as always, the real star were the character portraits/cut-ins, which were superb.
-Cons-
Some Obvious Logic "Problems"
The new logic system was in general an interesting addition to the game, but some of the situations were far to obvious and didn't really need to be subject to this mechanic.
Slight Over Reliance on "One Note" Cameos
While most of the returning character really added to the game, some of them are really starting to wear thin.
-In Conclusion-
Another excellent addition to the Ace Attorney series and a promising start to a new sub-series. With the new game play style, it'll be nice to have another viable avenue to expand the AA universe from many different perspectives. The strong new cast will hopefully continue to grow and add to the mythos. The next Ace Attorney game cannot come soon enough.
-Pros-
Excellent New Cast of Characters
This is probably my favorite part of the game. I don't think an Ace Attorney game has ever introduced so many intriguing and well designed characters in one game, which is saying something as character development and design is one of the series's strong points. I'm eagerly awaiting the return of
Tyrell, Shi-Long, Rhoda, Colias & Kay. (And possibly even Shih-nah/Calisto/Crazy Lady.)
Refreshing Gameplay
The new focus on investigation and logic was a nice change of pace for the series. While you may miss the court scenes at first, once you come to terms with the fact that this is supposed to be different than a standard AA game, it really starts to get in the groove.
Overarching Plot Line
the game's cases are all part of a related plot line.
Another Solid Soundtrack
While not the strongest soundtrack of the series, it did have many stand out pieces. Lang & Badd's themes are some of my favorite songs in the entire series.
Appealing Graphics
At first I thought the walking sprites lacked a bit of presence, but they really began to grow on me as the game progressed, I still think they could be spiffed up a bit though. But as always, the real star were the character portraits/cut-ins, which were superb.
-Cons-
Some Obvious Logic "Problems"
The new logic system was in general an interesting addition to the game, but some of the situations were far to obvious and didn't really need to be subject to this mechanic.
ie. "The victim was shot with a gun. Oh look, here's a gun. What does this mean?!?"
Slight Over Reliance on "One Note" Cameos
While most of the returning character really added to the game, some of them are really starting to wear thin.
I really don't need to see Larry, Oldbag, Meekins and to a lesser degree, Maggey again for a long time. It's the same shtick every time and they've all appeared in 3 or more games each. Time to give them a rest and let some other characters get some limelight.
-In Conclusion-
Another excellent addition to the Ace Attorney series and a promising start to a new sub-series. With the new game play style, it'll be nice to have another viable avenue to expand the AA universe from many different perspectives. The strong new cast will hopefully continue to grow and add to the mythos. The next Ace Attorney game cannot come soon enough.
dragonlife
Member
So since this game's Cornered music is my favorite in the entire series, I was wondering what your guys' favorites were.
Me: (Lying Coldly is not as cool as this) AAI > JFA > AA > T&T > AJ
Also...Examination themes <3 (Moderate)
Me: T&T > JFA (just under T&T) > AJ > AAI > AA
(Allegro)
T&T > AA > AAI > AJ > JFA
I do freakin' love all the themes, though, so don't get me wrong Actually, the only one I kind of dislike is JFA's Allegro Examination theme...which is ironic since its Moderate version ranks high for me.
Me: (Lying Coldly is not as cool as this) AAI > JFA > AA > T&T > AJ
Also...Examination themes <3 (Moderate)
Me: T&T > JFA (just under T&T) > AJ > AAI > AA
(Allegro)
T&T > AA > AAI > AJ > JFA
I do freakin' love all the themes, though, so don't get me wrong
Actually, the only one I kind of dislike is JFA's Allegro Examination theme...which is ironic since its Moderate version ranks high for me.Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
Just beat Case 4. The game is really starting to click with me now. I take back what I said about Apollo Justice having the best music; this game's music is superb.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Man, I finished it, and that was just all around amazing. While it doesn't quite reach Trials and Tribulations levels of awesome, it's definitely the next best game in the series. The plot line which runs through the game is excellent, and Case 5 really ramped things up and kept getting crazier and crazier.
Overall, the whole game was excellent from start to finish, although I hope we find out about GS5 soon, as I really want to return to the court room, regardless of who we're playing as.
I didn't see Shih-na being Yew coming at all. Although I thought she was suspicious, I really thought it was going to turn out to be some sort of thing where she had a good reason for lying and wasn't actually guilty. When she started having a laughing fit, that was probably the biggest holy shit moment I've had since Case 5 of T&T.
Alba as the main villain also took me awhile to figure out, and I think he was a pretty great villain. Although he isn't the best villain in series history, he was pretty fearsome, and I loved how long it took to take him down. It seemed like he had a contingency plan for just about everything, and taking him down was really satisfying.
Alba as the main villain also took me awhile to figure out, and I think he was a pretty great villain. Although he isn't the best villain in series history, he was pretty fearsome, and I loved how long it took to take him down. It seemed like he had a contingency plan for just about everything, and taking him down was really satisfying.
Overall, the whole game was excellent from start to finish, although I hope we find out about GS5 soon, as I really want to return to the court room, regardless of who we're playing as.
I actually wanted a bit more out of the cameos
I can't get enough of the Larry and Oldbag is good here because of her chemistry to Edgeworth same for Maggie to Gumshoe. Meekins really didn't need to be there, and way to kill the cameo of Ema Skye. And one shot deal with only a paragraph of total lines?! She is one of faves dammit.
Hours Left
Member
Edgeward said:
Well, I knew Oldbag would have to be in the first one considering her connection to Edgeworth. But I don't think she needed to be in two cases, and I hope that she'll be regulated to background only (if anything) for the next few games. (I would say the same for Larry.)
I actually like Maggey but she's not evolving at all. If she appears again, I don't really want to hear how her entire life is nothing but bad luck. She needs to start making her luck change. (Her lines in the ending might suggest this, so I'm hopeful.)
As for her relationship with Gumshoe, I know it's supposed to be cute but I don't really see the connection. Their relationship is stuck on the surface level with little interaction besides Gumshoe sticking up for her and Maggey pouting. I know the two lovable losers thing is supposed to make up for that, but I don't feel it.
And Ema was ripped off, for sure.
I actually like Maggey but she's not evolving at all. If she appears again, I don't really want to hear how her entire life is nothing but bad luck. She needs to start making her luck change. (Her lines in the ending might suggest this, so I'm hopeful.)
As for her relationship with Gumshoe, I know it's supposed to be cute but I don't really see the connection. Their relationship is stuck on the surface level with little interaction besides Gumshoe sticking up for her and Maggey pouting. I know the two lovable losers thing is supposed to make up for that, but I don't feel it.
And Ema was ripped off, for sure.
I just finished it this afternoon. Honestly I thought most of it was kinda lame, but the last case was pretty decent and going out on a high note kind of makes you forgive the things you didn't like on the way there. I'd say I liked it about as much as I liked the very first game; that is, more than Apollo Justice, not nearly as much as Trials and Tribulations, and Justice For All is still far and away my favourite.
I was really disappointed with how incredibly, ridiculously, sometimes offensively obvious they made almost everything in the game. Half the time you would spend the investigative part figuring something out, and then you'd end it by going through fifteen minutes of testimony where you re-solve the same puzzles that you just solved, often with the exact same pieces of evidence. It felt like they really overused 'add that to your testimony', because if that ever happens, then you immediately know that every other line in the testimony is meaningless, because that's the one you need to present evidence to. And even if they did accidentally make a part where you actually had to think it through, most of the time Edgeworth (or even some other character) would practically spell out exactly where the hole is or what you needed to present.
I also thought the Logic system was a good idea that they didn't capitalize on at all; the fact that there are a tiny number of thoughts to connect, with no red herrings that don't match up with anything else, really just meant that you'd end up with three or four things in there, and as soon as you see two that even mention the same thing, you're done. It was even worse when you'd have absolutely nothing floating around in there, and in the middle of a conversation you'd suddenly get exactly two Logic pieces one after the other, and then immediately get shunted into the Logic screen to connect them. Why bother?
For all that bitching, though, the non-testimony, investigative parts were conceptually a lot more fun than any of the other games, and I hope they carry some of that over into any games going forward. The Logic system could be a much better 'power' than Psych-locks or Perception if you actually ever had to really think about some things, and again, (most of) the last case was quite a bit better than the rest of the game in terms of puzzles. And the music was great.
The cast of characters was better than most/all of the other games in the series, too, but that's never been much of a draw for me compared to the logic puzzles.
I was really disappointed with how incredibly, ridiculously, sometimes offensively obvious they made almost everything in the game. Half the time you would spend the investigative part figuring something out, and then you'd end it by going through fifteen minutes of testimony where you re-solve the same puzzles that you just solved, often with the exact same pieces of evidence. It felt like they really overused 'add that to your testimony', because if that ever happens, then you immediately know that every other line in the testimony is meaningless, because that's the one you need to present evidence to. And even if they did accidentally make a part where you actually had to think it through, most of the time Edgeworth (or even some other character) would practically spell out exactly where the hole is or what you needed to present.
I also thought the Logic system was a good idea that they didn't capitalize on at all; the fact that there are a tiny number of thoughts to connect, with no red herrings that don't match up with anything else, really just meant that you'd end up with three or four things in there, and as soon as you see two that even mention the same thing, you're done. It was even worse when you'd have absolutely nothing floating around in there, and in the middle of a conversation you'd suddenly get exactly two Logic pieces one after the other, and then immediately get shunted into the Logic screen to connect them. Why bother?
For all that bitching, though, the non-testimony, investigative parts were conceptually a lot more fun than any of the other games, and I hope they carry some of that over into any games going forward. The Logic system could be a much better 'power' than Psych-locks or Perception if you actually ever had to really think about some things, and again, (most of) the last case was quite a bit better than the rest of the game in terms of puzzles. And the music was great.
The cast of characters was better than most/all of the other games in the series, too, but that's never been much of a draw for me compared to the logic puzzles.
I'm guessing I'm near the end since I just finished the
and with how past AA games when
I think I already got a feeling on how the whole case is gonna end already because
If I'm right I really hope they go with something a little less obvious next time around :lol
flashback case
someone goes missing or isn't caught they end up being someone you meet in the next case relating to it or someone you met prior
I think I already got a feeling on how the whole case is gonna end already because
I think. . .wait I KNOW the Ms.Lady Gaga wanna be,is Yew with a new identity especially considering how her face structure is comparable to Yew and how her smile when she panics is most likely her new way of trying to contain her uncontrollable laughter.It also explains who the true murderer was since I imagine she wanted to get that key back
If I'm right I really hope they go with something a little less obvious next time around :lol
Gunloc said:
I'll agree Oldbag was overused, there was no reason to put her in the last case and could've been used to introduce another character possibly Mindy to give Larry something else to do other than whine and pout.
Larry I'll still contend to have the next one because out of any of the myriad AA characters, he is the most acceptable/tolerable to have that one character they always seem to need of the guy that dumbly gets caught accused and somehow uses said dumbness to help solve the case.
Maybe I'm just too used to JRPG relationships but the standstill in relationship development between Gumshoe and Maggie didn't bother me that much since the involvement of her was so small I didn't expect much. That said AA game that features them better damn evolve into something.
Larry I'll still contend to have the next one because out of any of the myriad AA characters, he is the most acceptable/tolerable to have that one character they always seem to need of the guy that dumbly gets caught accused and somehow uses said dumbness to help solve the case.
Maybe I'm just too used to JRPG relationships but the standstill in relationship development between Gumshoe and Maggie didn't bother me that much since the involvement of her was so small I didn't expect much. That said AA game that features them better damn evolve into something.
By the by, this is one of the top favorites in the AA series for me. I enjoyed it's more streamlined approach, like containing me in one/few rooms until I get everything and having a notification if I completely scanned a crime scene. Plus walking is cool.
The little VR start-up animation and sound irked me a bit though, especially when they start it up then close it so that they can input more data and then start again. Trivial, but I had to get that out of me.
Finally finished it and it was good. The new gameplay with walking around the crime scenes is precisely what I expected Apollo Justice to do as it was developed on a new platform. Logic is cool, as is Miles.
Now, there'll be many complaints from here on, in the end I enjoyed the game but there were many things I found strange and I'm a complainer I guess :lol
It's way too easy and linear with only having one open site to investigate all the time - I would have preferred to open the game up more now that they've given you more freedom of movement, instead it went in the opposite way. I remember one time when you could access multiple rooms and even then there was only one thing you could do. And you were told what that was. Lame.
Most of the stories are pretty lame for an "AA game." I knew who the villain was as soon as I saw them in the first two cases (
) and none of the other really came as surprises. In case 4
In case 5
So, anyway, even though they came up with some great main villains I'm not satisfied with the stories and how they're handled. Agent Lang felt like a lazy plot forwarder:
Well, I'm sure I'll write more about what I didn't like about the game in this thread but I'm tired for now. Summarizing:
- Great movement and logic systems, definitely keep the movement for Apollo Justice 2 and make it more open again.
- Great villains!
- Not especially good stories, the writing team needs to pick up again. I had this complaint with Apollo Justice as well and had hoped they would do better this time, now I just hope that they pick it up for Apollo 2. (Ehm, I don't know if the teams behind both games are connected in any way of course? Does anyone know more about this?)
- I didn't really laugh that much. Also shared with Apollo Justice.
- Nice graphics, but create non-mirrored sprites for characters appearing on both sides of the screen, please. How much can that cost?
I'm placing it in the same tier as Apollo. Would buy again.
Now, there'll be many complaints from here on, in the end I enjoyed the game but there were many things I found strange and I'm a complainer I guess :lol
It's way too easy and linear with only having one open site to investigate all the time - I would have preferred to open the game up more now that they've given you more freedom of movement, instead it went in the opposite way. I remember one time when you could access multiple rooms and even then there was only one thing you could do. And you were told what that was. Lame.
Most of the stories are pretty lame for an "AA game." I knew who the villain was as soon as I saw them in the first two cases (
massive tits = instant evil :lol
I didn't want Yew to be the villain because she was soooo cooool and they had me for a while, but as soon as the time of the murder was questioned I knew they were going for her. They handled it pretty good even so I wasn't disappointed, she was a great villain, one of my favorite in the series so far.
In case 5
my main suspicions was directed and Shih-na, and as I knew that Yew would have to appear somewhere I connected the dots a good while before that reveal - even then they handled that thing superbly and I had great fun defeating her again. Like I said, what a great villain After that Alba was the only remaining character to suspect so... well.
After that Alba was the only remaining character to suspect so... well.So, anyway, even though they came up with some great main villains I'm not satisfied with the stories and how they're handled. Agent Lang felt like a lazy plot forwarder:
I liked what they were doing with a character that didn't care for rules, but it was just ridiculous at a lot of points when he attacked characters vaguely connected to the crime scenes, holding up the investigations instead of going further. Come up with some more solid scripting instead of relying on cheap plot points to drag the story out, please.
Well, I'm sure I'll write more about what I didn't like about the game in this thread but I'm tired for now. Summarizing:
- Great movement and logic systems, definitely keep the movement for Apollo Justice 2 and make it more open again.
- Great villains!
Yew more so than Alba, who was underdeveloped: What were his motives? They should have expanded on that.
- I didn't really laugh that much. Also shared with Apollo Justice.
- Nice graphics, but create non-mirrored sprites for characters appearing on both sides of the screen, please. How much can that cost?
I'm placing it in the same tier as Apollo. Would buy again.
Yeah, I can agree with a lot of this. Interesting that JFA is your favorite game since it gets a lot of flack. Comparing the final scenes to this gameCoxswain said:
it definitely nailed the "pick your poison" choice much better, btw. That was a missed opportunity for Miles to make the same choice Phoenix was forced to make, kinda sad.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Just finished it.
I really liked how, at the end, they basically made a joke out of
I really liked how, at the end, they basically made a joke out of
Phoenix always being saved by a dramatic "HOLD IT!" from someone in the gallery.
Rewrite
Not as deep as he thinks
Okay, I think I'm at the final part of case 3 but god damn is this case hard in the rebuttals. Sometimes I didn't know what the fuck to present. For instance, my bar almost went down in the rebuttal where
Stuff like that is what made this case kind of frustrating to me. I don't know if any of you guys had a similar experience.
in one of the testimonies (I forgot who) mentioned something about 2 costumes or something when originally it was 3. Then there was also this part of a testimony about the whole right hand/left hand thing where you had to present the letter.
Those two in particular jumped out at me, actually. If it helps you, you should examine carefully and make note of anything unusual in any piece of evidence you get. It may sound obvious, but miss it once and you're likely to lose 3-4 hits for it.Rewrite said:
Biggest problem is the penalty for dying. Sure we NEED penalty of some sort, but to just replay the whole thing (without even the fastforward option) really sucks.
I don't know, maybe something like Professor Layton where you lose points?
There's that one place in case 4
where you need to present one of the statues, then minutes afterward present the other statue. Even now I have no idea what makes each specific statue tie to the specific statement... actually I presented the wrong one both times, the first time I accidentally presented the second one and saw it was right. I was so mad.
wackojackosnose
Member
A point system sounds much better; you get less points because you're stupid but you don't have to do the save/reset trick every few minutes breaking the pacing of the game. It seems the AA games are stuck between being games and being interactive novels and Capcom doesn't know which way to take the series either.upandaway said:
I still prefer it to the Heavy Rain demo though.
Heh, biggest problem with the plot; fanservice.Gunloc said:
In my opinion,
Larry was supposed to forever "be" Laurice Deauxnim, but some fans complained "whaaat, no Larry in AA 4?!?" and there ya go, they ruined the character he finally became in T&T.
He was a stupid idiot and found a way out by doing something he liked in T&T... here, he's just a stupid idiot again.
Somehow, I'd like this game to be between JFA and T&T, so that Larry is not "ruined" and Franziska can get her revenge against Edgeworth in court (AA3, case 5) AFTER they cooperated in AAI.
But it's the other way around... Franzy's whippity whip trip is the proof.
He was a stupid idiot and found a way out by doing something he liked in T&T... here, he's just a stupid idiot again.
Somehow, I'd like this game to be between JFA and T&T, so that Larry is not "ruined" and Franziska can get her revenge against Edgeworth in court (AA3, case 5) AFTER they cooperated in AAI.
But it's the other way around... Franzy's whippity whip trip is the proof.
And this is basically what I meant when I said "Apollo did something right, but people complained"... what it did right, was an all-new cast of characters, and character development for the returning one!
Yes, Phoenix in Apollo was awesome, and of course he was the real main character.
My opinion of the series is quite the ordinary one, but different from GAF's (since you all love JFA so much).
Basically:
1- T&T
2- PW: AA
3- Apollo
4- Justice for All / AAI
but you could say AA 1 and Apollo are of the same quality, I just put AA1 there because of Case 4 and 5, and because it was the first one
Also, AAI is probably better than JFA in some aspects, but whatever, JFA has "that" Case 4, you know.
It also has the worst Case 3 ever, ugh.
And you know what's the fun thing? this is a Top 5, but all five games are AWESOME and the series is THE best new series this gen.
That's why I love this series so much.
charlequin
Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
The best is when it happens after every single person has already been accounted for and Edgeworth even sounds a little annoyed.
N4Us said:
I thought there was a perfect amount of him, but it did totally kill me when he showed up. I had totally forgotten about him and having him pop up in the case was one of the funniest moments for me.
CornBurrito
Member
Ok did the writers screw up at some point in the 4th (?) case.
It was like an in-character, yet out-of-character-for-the-time moment.
Edgeworth's intended debut. Manfred was still pretending to be a kind, yet strict mentor towards him. As far as I know he only dropped the act after Phoenix managed to get him convicted of murder in the first game. That is the only time he revealed that he hated Edgeworth.
Anyway... Edgeworth asked for permission to find the perfect evidence in order to convict Gumshoe. Manfred responses with "how could someone as worthless as you hope to achieve perfection."
I went "wtf." Neither Edgeworth nor Franziska said anything to that comment. Manfred shouldn't have said anything like that. He had been pretty kind to Edgeworth beforehand, and told him to carry on the Von Karma name by winning the trial.
Anyway... Edgeworth asked for permission to find the perfect evidence in order to convict Gumshoe. Manfred responses with "how could someone as worthless as you hope to achieve perfection."
I went "wtf." Neither Edgeworth nor Franziska said anything to that comment. Manfred shouldn't have said anything like that. He had been pretty kind to Edgeworth beforehand, and told him to carry on the Von Karma name by winning the trial.
It was like an in-character, yet out-of-character-for-the-time moment.