Support NeoGAF

[Raistlin]

2499-3499? That's pretty damn affordable for 1080p sets, I'm actually very surprised. I wonder if manufacturers will just go straight to 1080p for new models 40" and up, I don't even see the point for 720p except for old models or smaller TVs.

There are a number @ $2000 and under ... and a couple around $1500 or lower.

 

[sangreal]

:lol

Well duh ... they are just now starting to hit good price-points.


This forced prices down on lower-res sets (especially in the LCD/plasma market) ... so there were a lot of sales for older stock.

That doesn't change the fact that the trend is there, prices are continuing to come down, and that a higher and higher percentage of new TV's are 1080p.


People really need to stop with this short-term menality ... this generation is going to be around 5-6 years at least ... and won't even be mainstream for what ... 3?

Yes, but I think its silly to be having this argument right now when 98% of the televisions sold in NA last quarter don't even support 1080p. Who the hell knows what configurations of Xbox 360/PS3 will be released down the line. Its entirely within the realm of possibilities that Sony will choose in the future to release a version without HDMI and (far more likely) Microsoft will release a 360 with an HDMI port

 

[Razoric]

have the fanboy wars really come down to this?

****ing 1080p resolution / hdmi / market penetration debates? jesus christ

 

[Raistlin]

720p and 1080i will not be done for while based on the fact that HDTV is broadcasting using them as stardards... Only use that 1080p will possibly get is from either consoles or HD-DVD or BlueRay players.. Pretty much useless. In fact, at the moment, 720p HD is useless because there are only like 20 channels tops... (I only get 10 and 2 of those don't even show HD content just are capable.)

The point everyone fails to see is that most broadcasters are deciding to go with 1080i.



"1080i" TVs (ie. CRT-based) ... aren't actually 1080i ... they can't really resolve that resolution.


The only TV that does is 1080p TV's. It should also be noted that a 1080i broadcast is (resolution-wise) 1080p/30.

 

[Mark Gonzales]

This is quite true. This is also why no PC games currently do anything beyond 1280x720 as well. PC devs are desperately are waiting for BR and HD-DVD.

Yes...and games will never surpass 7 GB and we will never need more capacity. I mean Oblvion is the biggest game ever so how could we ever need more space

 

[Shogmaster]

Yes...and games will never surpass 7 GB and we will never need more capacity. I mean Oblvion is the biggest game ever so how could we ever need more space

Dude, don't act like your first post didn't stink. We all heard you fart.

And where's a goddamn mod to lock a thread when you need one? This thread is indeed beyond stinky now.

 

[bill0527]

Something tells me that you're one of the only few that got it.

I got it, but I said I was leaving the thread :lol

Now that Onix is here, all the thread needs is an appearance by monkeymagic and the holy trinity will be here in full-force.

 

[Stinkles]

I got it, but I said I was leaving the thread :lol

Now that Onix is here, all the thread needs is an appearance by monkeymagic and the holy trinity will be here in full-force.

At least Onix knows what he's talking about and remains civil.


Oops, wait I left this thread because of the piss-smelling homeless.

 

[JB1981]

Dude, don't act like your first post didn't stink. We all heard you fart.

And where's a goddamn mod to lock a thread when you need one? This thread is indeed beyond stinky now.

I'm sure if you whine enough it'll happen.

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm sure if you whine enough it'll happen.

If only it worked that way....

 

[sonycowboy]

Dude, don't act like your first post didn't stink. We all heard you fart.

And where's a goddamn mod to lock a thread when you need one? This thread is indeed beyond stinky now.

Mission accomplished, eh?

There are true issues with 1080p on the 360, both for games and other media, but I agree it's certainly not going to get discussed in this thread.

 

[mj1108]

I'm glad 1080p doesn't mean anything to me right now. Hell I can't even afford a TV that displays at 720p.

It definitely concerns the 3 people here who have 1080p now.

 

[Pimpwerx]

That chart should say VGA = 2560x1600 for the PS3. Believe, bitches. It'll only be for Linux though. PEACE.

 

[sangreal]

Mission accomplished, eh?

There are true issues with 1080p on the 360, both for games and other media, but I agree it's certainly not going to get discussed in this thread.

There are, but we already had the thread (atleast 2 actually) when everything in that IGN article was announced the first time

 

[Raistlin]

I got it, but I said I was leaving the thread :lol

Now that Onix is here, all the thread needs is an appearance by monkeymagic and the holy trinity will be here in full-force.

Don't mess with the A/V trinity!


KLee ... WHERE ARE YOU!?!!?!?

 

[Shogmaster]

That chart should say VGA = 2560x1600 for the PS3. Believe, bitches. It'll only be for Linux though. PEACE.

Wait, Sony is offering VGA connector for Linux? @_o Where did you get this golden nugget of info?

edit: Ah damn it, you edited. I thought it was some new info I didn't know about.

Anyways, let me page the mods again. :lol

 

[Mrbob]

Considering TVs are a yearl business, I doubt that. I don't foresee there being a gigantic swing this January, when most TVs for the year are done/announced, and they'll be in stores around summer/Fall of 07.

That said, 720p and 1080i aren't stop gaps. They're here for good. Broadcast TV ain't changing. It's still a premium "feature". It will be defacto in a long time, as 720p and 1080i both scale wonderfully to it, and people who watch plenty of movies (once next gen format war ends and start moving) will want to get the most out of their expensive media player and media format.

Blah.

Not a gigantic swing, but more 50/50. I was commenting on how most sets are 720P sets, and things will start changing to 1080P.

Having said this, I don't see 720P sets going away anytime soon. They may become the budget conscious HDTV set to buy, and perhaps this way end up garnering much more sales than 1080P. I can see 500-800 dollar 42" 720P sets in 2 years time.

 

[Shogmaster]

Not a gigantic swing, but more 50/50. I was commenting on how most sets are 720P sets, and things will start changing to 1080P.

Having said this, I don't see 720P sets going away anytime soon. They may become the budget conscious HDTV set to buy, and perhaps this way end up garnering much more sales than 1080P. I can see 500-800 dollar 42" 720P sets in 2 years time.

True 720p sets are now fairly rare. The only ones are mid range rear projection micro-display units like DLPs. The biggest growth in HDTV sales are not 720p, nor 1080p, but 768p (1366x768). And all of those wacky res bastards have VGA. :lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

No new info given and no new angles to argue, so it's basically yet another 1080p ugh-fest. The other 1080p discussions already covered the same ground and they're still around and are able to perfectly accomodate this new non-news from IGN.

 

[Raistlin]

True 720p sets are now fairly rare. The only ones are mid range rear projection micro-display units like DLPs. The biggest growth in HDTV sales are not 720p, nor 1080p, but 768p (1366x768). And all of those wacky res bastards have VGA. :lol

This is true, due to the plummeting of LCD and Plamsa prices.


However, they are starting to make a big push to 1080p now as well ... especially with LCD (Plasma is lagging a bit).

 

[Shogmaster]

This AGAIN?!?


After the ban-holocaust that was the LAST couple 1080p threads?

Every ****ING week we're going to do this?

I swear.

Great, you just bumped it again!

Oh wait....

 

[Kleegamefan]

Great, you just bumped it again!

Oh wait....

:lol

 

[Raistlin]

:lol








(oh shit)

 

[DopeyFish]

i find it funny that when most people see 1080p they assume it's 1080p60 :lol

this goes for people on both sides of the damn fence

 

[Heezzi]

The point everyone fails to see is that most broadcasters are deciding to go with 1080i.



"1080i" TVs (ie. CRT-based) ... aren't actually 1080i ... they can't really resolve that resolution.


The only TV that does is 1080p TV's. It should also be noted that a 1080i broadcast is (resolution-wise) 1080p/30.

You mean 1080i60, interlace has half the data of 1080p60, hence the i


http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449-6361600-1.html

3. What content is available in 1080p?
Really, nothing at this point. Today's high-def broadcasts are done in either 1080i or 720p, and there's little or no chance they'll jump to 1080p any time soon because of bandwidth issues. Meanwhile, some newly announced DVD players from Denon and NeuNeo (who?) are claiming to upconvert standard DVD movies to 1080p resolution, but that's a far cry from native high-def content. More promising is the post-DVD future. There's been a lot of chatter over whether the new breed of high-def movie players, Blu-ray or HD-DVD, as well as the upcoming Sony PlayStation 3, will output in 1080p.

Besides, HD-DVD, BlueRay, and any PS3 or Xbox360 games that support 1080p, not much content. With current HD broadcast & cable stations they would have to upgrade their equipment again to produce a 1080p signal. Most are not going to unless the FCC standardizes 1080p for broadcast and forces them to use it.

 

[Kolgar]

You misinterpreted my post. I meant that 1% of the TVs out there actuallyl accept 1080p over component. In fact, the number's probably even less than that.

Late to the party, but this year's 1080p Samsungs accept 1080p over component... and they sell a lot of TVs.

VGA has the same problem. It's not something that appears on a lot of TVs. And very, very rarely accepts 1080p unless it's a PC monitor, which usually don't appear often in peoples' living rooms.

1080p over VGA too. And HDMI, obviously.

 

[Raistlin]

You mean 1080i60, interlace has half the data of 1080p60, hence the i

No ... no I don't.

Video is recorded at 30fps. What is sent via a 1080i broadcast is an interlaced frame every 60 seconds.

The TV de-interlaces the signal to effectively give you the original 1080p/30 video.

Movies on TV use a similar concept. De-interlacing with 2:3 pulldown yields 1080p/24.




In either case, only a 1080p display will actually resolve the image fully.

 

[StingerNLG]

The point everyone fails to see is that most broadcasters are deciding to go with 1080i.

Not to deficate on such a wonderful and civil thread, but I was curious as to only one thing on this one Onix. Are you counting just the major broadcasters or are you factoring in premium channels as well. Don't forget both FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p.

If you go to premium channels, most everyone is 1080i except for ESPN which does 720p, because it's sports based and the ever-present arguement was that progressive scan is better for sports.

Ok, everyone can go back to pissing on the wall now.

 

[jobber]

Oh god another 1080p thread. Seriously, all 3 of you with 1080p tvs should just get on aim chat and yell at each other there

u mad?

 

[Heezzi]

No ... no I don't.

Video is recorded at 30fps. What is sent via a 1080i broadcast is an interlaced frame every 60 seconds.

The TV de-interlaces the signal to effectively give you the original 1080p/30 video.

Movies on TV use a similar concept. De-interlacing with 2:3 pulldown yields 1080p/24.

In either case, only a 1080p display will actually resolve the image fully.

That still isn't true 1080p. No stations at the moment are broadcasting in 1080p.

It's only half the frame rate and half the resolution of real 1080p.

 

[winston_pr]

WTF, dude? We went over this like a million time in other threads! Just because IGN is dumb as bricks and can't ask the right question doesn't mean we have to retread this dead horse here YET AGAIN.

IGN is like Playboy, just enjoy the pics..

 

[Chiggs]

So what have we learned from this thread? I'm buying a 1080p set early next year (along with a PS3), and I'm wondering if I should just keep my 360 hooked up to my Viewsonic LCD, or if I should attempt to hook it up to the television. Is it even worth it?

 

[JB1981]

Late to the party, but this year's 1080p Samsungs accept 1080p over component... and they sell a lot of TVs.



1080p over VGA too. And HDMI, obviously.

Ok. So Samsung has a few TVs that accept 1080p over component. Wow.

Not really.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Something tells me that you're one of the only few that got it.

no, that was masterful.

1080p TV shipments for all TV technologies rose 42% Q/Q and over 1000% Y/Y to 331K units and a 1% share of the global TV market. On a revenue basis, 1080p TVs rose 36% Q/Q and 672% Y/Y to $1.1B and a 5% share. Japan led the way in 1080p penetration with 1080p TVs accounting for 17% of their Q2'06 TV revenues and 5% of unit shipments followed by North America with 1080p sets accounting for 7% of revenues and 2% of units.

It's going to take a looooong time for 1080p to approach a standard. Anyone know what the average consumer refresh rate is for television? (Meaning, how often on average do households buy a replacement TV.) Even with 100% 1080p sets, it will take years to become a large portion of the TVs in households.

For all the bruhaha, I don't think 1080p technology will have much impact in the next 5+ years, at least.

 

[Raistlin]

That still isn't true 1080p. No stations at the moment are broadcasting in 1080p.

It's only half the frame rate and half the resolution of real 1080p.

True 1080p? I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong.


Yes, a 1080i signal is being sent ... however, the TV de-interlaces it to recreate the orignal progressive image.

You must understand that 1080p encompasses more than 60fps. 30fps is used for video footage, and 24fps is used for movie footage. 60fps is not used for any current video or movie standard (recorded or broadcast), and is expected to generally be used PC, gaming, and possibly video processing.

The point being, you can derive the original 1080p images for 30fps or less using 1080i/60. It is as simply as that.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think I finally upgraded from RF...a couple years ago? A/V output baby!

By the time 1080p becomes standard I think I'll be up to S-video but I can't guarantee that.

(Seriously people need to stop releasing games or I need to stop buying them or...? Help!)

 

[plagiarize]

True 1080p? I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong.


Yes, a 1080i signal is being sent ... however, the TV de-interlaces it to recreate the orignal progressive image.

You must understand that 1080p encompasses more than 60fps. 30fps is used for video footage, and 24fps is used for movie footage. 60fps is not used for any current video or movie standard (recorded or broadcast), and is expected to generally be used PC, gaming, and possibly video processing.

The point being, you can derive the original 1080p images for 30fps or less using 1080i/60. It is as simply as that.

most HDTV channels don't broadcast in full 1080i resolution though. they skimp on the horizontal and some like fox skimp on the vertical too.

1080i stuff DOES look better on a 1080p set though, no question... but we aren't about to start seeing 1080p 24 or 30 over cable or satellite any time soon.

 

[Raistlin]

most HDTV channels don't broadcast in full 1080i resolution though. they skimp on the horizontal and some like fox skimp on the vertical too.

Certainly ... many broadcasters are skimping at this point ... though not all.

I'm simply stating that to get the maximum resolution, you need a 1080p TV (and also tring to explain how 1080i/60 can be converted to 1080p/30/24).

Based on the push by TV manufacturers for 1080p, BluRay and HD-DVD, and some broadcasters comments themselves ... we should expect a majority of TV content to be 1080i.

Therefore, it only makes sense to go with that resolution for a new TV purchase.


(BTW - isn't Fox 720p?)

1080i stuff DOES look better on a 1080p set though, no question... but we aren't about to start seeing 1080p 24 or 30 over cable or satellite any time soon.

Again ... 1080i can be deinterlaced to 1080p30 or 24.

 

[mckmas8808]

This week's Best Buy ad has 30 TVs listed in it. 4 of which are advertised as 1080p televisions with prices ranging from $2799-$3499.

A quick browse of the Circuit City ad shows 47 TVs listed - 4 of which are 1080p with prices ranging from $2499-$3499.

That's hardly 1/4th of all new HDTVs.

720p was first introduced back in 2003 I believe and it has taken 720p a good 3 years to get to mass market pricing.

Damn Bill just go to the store instead. You'll see more than 4 1080p TVs there instead. I've seen 1080p TVs at BestBuy for $2000.

 

[Andonuts]

Couldn't MS just put a HDMI port on the HD DVD player and be done with it?

I mean that would make it a little more expensive, I guess, but who's counting at this point? $200 is still pretty cheap for a HD DVD player.

 

[Geoff9920]

Certainly ... many broadcasters are skimping at this point ... though not all.

I'm simply stating that to get the maximum resolution, you need a 1080p TV (and also tring to explain how 1080i/60 can be converted to 1080p/30/24).

Based on the push by TV manufacturers for 1080p, BluRay and HD-DVD, and some broadcasters comments themselves ... we should expect a majority of TV content to be 1080i.

Therefore, it only makes sense to go with that resolution for a new TV purchase.


(BTW - isn't Fox 720p?)





Again ... 1080i can be deinterlaced to 1080p30 or 24.

Yeah, both fox and abc are.

 

[Raistlin]

Couldn't MS just put a HDMI port on the HD DVD player and be done with it?

I mean that would make it a little more expensive, I guess, but who's counting at this point? $200 is still pretty cheap for a HD DVD player.

No ... I believe it would be out of spec for HDCP encryption.

 

[arne]

oh noes i bumped this thread!

I heard that IGN updated their page after talking to someone more technically inclined.

some of this stuff is new(s) to me, like this. to think, i never got an answer to this question a long time ago. heh.

IGN: Can the X360 send out a digital signal now, or ever?

Microsoft Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so. When the Xbox 360 was being developed HDMI was nascent and with our current connections we support what the overwhelming majority of consumers have available to them. It's important to note that the market penetration of 1080p displays is in the single digits. Regardless, for those early adopters who have displays and projectors that support 1080p over VGA and component we have a solution and it is a free upgrade for them. We are watching the market closely and will continue to evaluate our solution in the face of consumer demand, but have no announcements regarding additional cables or connections.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't understand how you can get 1080p HD-DVD movies out of the 360. I thought it was against AACS regulations for 1080p signal to be sent through anything other than HDMI? Or is that just blu-ray?

Now, I know it has been "DISCUSSED IN 50 OTHER THREADS AHHH," but I wasn't in them, so if anyone could kindly answer me, I'd be happy.

Thank you.

 

[JB1981]

I don't understand how you can get 1080p HD-DVD movies out of the 360. I thought it was against AACS regulations for 1080p signal to be sent through anything other than HDMI? Or is that just blu-ray?

Now, I know it has been "DISCUSSED IN 50 OTHER THREADS AHHH," but I wasn't in them, so if anyone could kindly answer me, I'd be happy.

Thank you.

You can't. 1080i-only over component for movies. 1080p over component is possible for games, provided that your TV accepts it.

 

[Bad_Boy]

I don't understand how you can get 1080p HD-DVD movies out of the 360. I thought it was against AACS regulations for 1080p signal to be sent through anything other than HDMI? Or is that just blu-ray?

gotta use vga for 1080p HD-DVD.

 

[arne]

EDIT: beaten ^^

You can't. 1080i-only over component for movies. 1080p over component is possible for games, provided that your TV accepts it.

and 1080p for HD DVD, games, etc. is available via VGA output if you TV accepts that.

 

[Raistlin]

I don't understand how you can get 1080p HD-DVD movies out of the 360. I thought it was against AACS regulations for 1080p signal to be sent through anything other than HDMI? Or is that just blu-ray?

Now, I know it has been "DISCUSSED IN 50 OTHER THREADS AHHH," but I wasn't in them, so if anyone could kindly answer me, I'd be happy.

Thank you.

It sounds like there may be a loop-hole for VGA that can allow 1080p.

I'd like to get some better confirmation from AACS though, but looking through some of the info at their site - it might be doable.

 

[Y2Kev]

gotta use vga for 1080p HD-DVD.

Well that's my point. VGA is not HDMI. So how is it possible?

EDIT: beaten ^^



and 1080p for HD DVD, games, etc. is available via VGA output if you TV accepts that.

Must be a loophole then? Or is the AACS (is this even applicable to HD-DVD?) clear about just not allowing component?

 

[JB1981]

EDIT: beaten ^^



and 1080p for HD DVD, games, etc. is available via VGA output if you TV accepts that.

Right. I thought he was asking specifically about component, though. If not, apologies for the incomplete response.