OldJadedGamer
Banned
McDragon said:
/thread
McDragon said:
i hate bees said:And funnily enough, he's often right.
Naughty Dog should shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods, I'm sure when Uncharted is running if someone put a resource monitor on the PS3 it wouldn't read "30/40%", sure they might find ways to optimize or improve but to bullshit about some POWER LIMIT just turns developer conferences in to Dragon Ball Z.
i hate bees said:And funnily enough, he's often right.
Naughty Dog should shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods, I'm sure when Uncharted is running if someone put a resource monitor on the PS3 it wouldn't read "30/40%", sure they might find ways to optimize or improve but to bullshit about some POWER LIMIT just turns developer conferences in to Dragon Ball Z.
What does a 70% performance increase mean anyway?deepbrown said:Uh...you don't know what you're talking about. ND are the best in the business...and are experienced with the PS3 - that's why they can say they see 60-70% more/performance increase and...a another team that creates a lesser game cannot and say they've reached 100%
HAHAHA :lol :lolMcDragon said:
The percentage itself is not accurate. It's a guesstimate to both help them in how much more they think they can achieve, and how much they believe they are getting out of the theoretical power. It's also something very easy for the videogaming audience to understand. Though talking of percentage may have little accuracy/relevance in development, it can easily suggest to outsiders the gains that might be made.[Nintex] said:What does a 70% performance increase mean anyway?
They could just say: "Yeah we could add a couple of polygons to the environments and add some light sources" why does it have to be "there's still 70% of POWAH, hidden beyond our grasp in the PS3... but one day we take control of this immense power". 70% more power makes as much sense as some nutjob claiming he saw Jesus in Gran Turismo code, or wait there was one...
The funny thing is that even they said that talking about percentages is stupid. Someone should ask them in an interview why they changed their opinion. For the record I don't doubt Naughty Dogs excellence in coding, I do however doubt that there's 70% hidden power in the PS3.
i hate bees said:And funnily enough, he's often right.
Naughty Dog should shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods, I'm sure when Uncharted is running if someone put a resource monitor on the PS3 it wouldn't read "30/40%", sure they might find ways to optimize or improve but to bullshit about some POWER LIMIT just turns developer conferences in to Dragon Ball Z.
Slavik81 said:Haven't we realized that those sorts of quotes don't actually mean anything? Why do these stupid quotes still get full threads?
Just because you praised it doesn't mean my response to your first comment is irrelevant. This isn't a cock waving contest. You made a statement, I made a counter-argument. You either agree or you don't. If you do agree you say "Yes I agree, and I also happened to praise the game in my post", if you don't you say "No i don't agree" and you ellaboarte on why. That's how one debates. Noones arguing.pswii60 said:EDIT: nvm, why bother arguing with frickin' deepbrown!?
:lol :lol :lolAny developer who gives you a percent of system used answer is blowing smoke.
McDragon said:
Naughty Dog said:Any developer who gives you a percent of system used answer is blowing smoke.
:lolNaughty Dog said:Were probably only using 30 or 40 per cent of the power of the PS3
What's with all these long winded responses? Do you think I'm actually going to read all that nonsense?deepbrown said:Just because you praised it doesn't mean my response to your first comment is irrelevant. This isn't a cock waving contest. You made a statement, I made a counter-argument. You either agree or you don't. If you do agree you say "Yes I agree, and I also happened to praise the game in my post", if you don't you say "No i don't agree" and you ellaboarte on why. That's how one debates. Noones arguing.
You're saying they should have "used" the power to get rid of the tearing, i'm saying they will "use" the power to get rid of the tearing in Uncharted 2. Their framerate will already be much higher at this point. So in that way they are catering to your request.
It does matter. In this thread. As it's the whole point of this thread. Check the thread title.kevm3 said:The attempts to spin these remarks into something negative is hilarious. I don't really know what, specifically, the 30 to 40 percent capability usage is referring to exactly, but really, it doesn't matter. Uncharted came out within the first year of the PS3. Look at what came out in the first year of PS2's lifespan and compare it to God of War 2. The jump in quality is monumental. What's to prevent the same from happening there? Bottom line is, there is significant room for improvement.
What is also a bit funny is some people saying that Naughty Dog needs to put up and shut up when they've been some of the most impressive console developers around. Then we have guys quoting Carmack. He's an awesome PC programmer, but what's the last great thing he's done on consoles? Doom 3 on Xbox? What's the last great technical achievement he has had with the playstation brand?
Would anyone care to assist me in posting a PS2 "beginning of life cycle" and "end of life cycle" screenshot comparison?
They aren't the same developer...so it's not the same horse.Jenga said::lol :lol :lol
straight from the horse's mouth
Because you edited your post after I had written mine? Because I gave you the courtesy of responding in full? Because i respect you more than you appear to respect me?pswii60 said::lol
What's with all these long winded responses? Do you think I'm actually going to read all that nonsense?
It does matter. In this thread. As it's the whole point of this thread. Check the thread title.
pswii60 said::lol
You know why they can't.Zedsdeadbaby said:If they can get a % grasp on how much they're using, why can't they grab the other 60-70% ?
Isn't this the same ND who contradicted themselves with the percentage farcial talk too? Lovely game ND (best PS3 game in fact), but percentage talk is bullshit and admitting so beforehand is even worse.
i hate bees said:And funnily enough, he's often right.
Naughty Dog should shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods, I'm sure when Uncharted is running if someone put a resource monitor on the PS3 it wouldn't read "30/40%", sure they might find ways to optimize or improve but to bullshit about some POWER LIMIT just turns developer conferences in to Dragon Ball Z.
Slavik81 said:Haven't we realized that those sorts of quotes don't actually mean anything? Why do these stupid quotes still get full threads?
Percentage of hardware utilization isn't even directly correlated to anything in-game anyways. Not graphics, not number of enemies. Nothing.
And here we go again.deepbrown said:Because you edited your post after I had written mine? Because I gave you the courtesy of responding in full? Because i respect you more than you appear to respect me?
Agreed. I think the 'power' remarks they've made are retarded and completely 2001 DC vs PS2 era bullshit. HOWEVER, Uncharted is a fuck-awesome game, and still by far my favourite PS3 game to date (sorry MGS4). So, oodles of respect for the ND crew. Just not so much for whoever made this 'power' comment. I thought we were well past all that nonsense. We know all console's have their strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, or should I say, the eating.Kittonwy said:They haven't delivered? Their first game on the PS3 blended platforming with melee and shooting seamlessly in huge seamless streaming environments while technically is still the most impressive game on the console.
Do you agree or not? ND will use the power to get rid of tearing thus rendering your quip self-defeating. And I've already stated that the percentage is irrelevant/inaccurate.pswii60 said:And here we go again.
Of course I agree with that statement. I never disagreed with it, so I don't know why you keep going on about it. You don't know when to drop things.deepbrown said:Do you agree or not? ND will use the power to get rid of tearing thus rendering your quip self-defeating. And I've already stated that the percentage is irrelevant/inaccurate.
Exactly...how else should he get it across that they can get a lot more out of the machine to plebs who have no idea about console development? He says percentage to aid understanding, not to make a technical point.Madman said:So, um, yeah, Uncharted 2 should be pretty cool. But don't mind me. You all are obviously very busy digging up old quotes and arguing the finer points of developers trying to explain power usage in consoles.
Because you said "why bother arguing with frickin deepbrown"...when you obv weren't going to argue at all. So why not just say "I agree?pswii60 said:Of course I agree with that statement. I never disagreed with it, so I don't know why you keep going on about it.
I they can't use the power right now how are they so sure it's there.deepbrown said:You know why they can't.
kevm3 said:The attempts to spin these remarks into something negative is hilarious. I don't really know what, specifically, the 30 to 40 percent capability usage is referring to exactly, but really, it doesn't matter. Uncharted came out within the first year of the PS3. Look at what came out in the first year of PS2's lifespan and compare it to God of War 2. The jump in quality is monumental. What's to prevent the same from happening there? Bottom line is, there is significant room for improvement.
What is also a bit funny is some people saying that Naughty Dog needs to put up and shut up when they've been some of the most impressive console developers around. Then we have guys quoting Carmack. He's an awesome PC programmer, but what's the last great thing he's done on consoles? Doom 3 on Xbox? What's the last great technical achievement he has had with the playstation brand?
Mrbob said:Side note: Isn't Uncharted supposed to be a Greatest Hits title now?
I saw Motorstorm and Ninja Gaiden Sigma at Best Buy Greatest Hits boxes ready to be bought, but Uncharted was still at $59.99.
They don't know they'll get the next 60-70%, but they'll try.[Nintex] said:I they can't use the power right now how are they so sure it's there.
They might do all these crazy programming tricks, open up the gates to the hidden PS3 cores and find out that they were taken out to cut PS3 production costs after Kutaragi was kicked out...
I didn't say they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm saying that this is marketing bullshit, just like the wars that were fought over the number of bits a console was.HomerSimpson-Man said:To use for or against for system wars fodder, and the one thing seems to be true in all in teh system warz!!, experienced acknowledged devs whether they be Gabe, Carmack, or ND apparently don't know what they're talking.
The truth of the matter is no, they all clearly know what they're talking about, it's just they have their own bias opinions and experiences that's all.
If you ask some in this thread, anything besides a percentage.deepbrown said:Exactly...how else should he get it across that they can get a lot more out of the machine to plebs who have no idea about console development? He says percentage to aid understanding, not to make a technical point.
Anything where a developer is being interviewed for a website is marketing to some extent. He's trying to market his games and ND to a public who aren't developers. He's trying to get across the point that they have a lot more to get out of the system in an easy to understand way. Sure, it was unfortunate for him to mention percentages...but his point is clear.Slavik81 said:I didn't say they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm saying that this is marketing bullshit, just like the wars that were fought over the number of bits a console was.
"Were always trading war-stories with Insomniac and Evolution and Sucker Punch. Were just one block away from Sony Santa Monica the guys who made God Of War and we get our designers together with theirs for formal lunches, and just talk about tools, design approaches and so on. So theres this town square feeling of everybody trading stories about our best practices, and I think it makes everybody stronger and smarter.
Note: Never mention percentage. I think Rich Diamant of Naughty Dog said it best:Madman said:If you ask some in this thread, anything besides a percentage.
It really doesn't matter and I can't believe that you guys have argued about this long. I mean really, who gives a shit that he used a percentage value for power used in some interview? You guys will argue about anything. :lol
Are you sick of people asking how much PS3 power you are using?
Richard: I guess I dont really mind when they ask. Im just not sure why people think its so important. I guess the power question is a little more obvious. If they see something great and find out its only using a fraction of the power, then our hope for the future looks promising.
Slavik81 said:I didn't say they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm saying that this is marketing bullshit, just like the wars that were fought over the number of bits a console was.
-WindYoshi- said:Awesome. I love to see communication gone right. It's one of the reasons Nintendo's internal developments go so smoothly.
I think it's fine to mention a percentage. Very few outside of the very hardcore community will even read it let alone care about how useful it is.deepbrown said:Note: Never mention percentage. I think Rich Diamant of Naughty Dog said it best:
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/21/ri...rt-style-water-and-the-advantages-of-blu-ray/
kevm3 said:As spectacular as Uncharted looks, what do you think besides the V-Sync that could be improved, visually speaking? I would prefer a smoother framerate, and whatever water system Resistance 2 is using, I'd like to see that put in there. A dynamic water system is interesting, wherein different things can affect the flow of the water, the ripples, etc. I hope it makes into Uncharted 2. It's hard to think of any real improvements, since the game looks so good already.
kevm3 said:As spectacular as Uncharted looks, what do you think besides the V-Sync that could be improved, visually speaking? I would prefer a smoother framerate, and whatever water system Resistance 2 is using, I'd like to see that put in there. A dynamic water system is interesting, wherein different things can affect the flow of the water, the ripples, etc. I hope it makes into Uncharted 2. It's hard to think of any real improvements, since the game looks so good already.
It was after Jak 3 development. They started working on the PS3 tech. So they knew what they were doing and Naughty Dog knows more (and doing it better) about multi-proc. than ID/Carmack (he/Carmack even said it)KongRudi said:Carmack also said that Naughty Dog were probably the guys wich knew most about multi-threading, and such when they only worked on PS2. :-/
So look at the first PSOne games and 3 or 4 years later... they had ~ nearly 80% "more power" in their gamesDraft said:How is it good? Why can they only use 30%? Doesn't that seem awfully low to you? Like, less than a third of the systems resources are available? The rest are locked away by an incredibly complex architecture that even the greatest coders in the business can't understand?
Um... yes??zoukka said:And all Killzone footage is hot?
Getting rid of the floating was on their list of things to fix, but they ran out of time (and they didn't want to spoil the responsiveness) and unless they add a whole load of amazing tech (which I do hope) there's a 99% chance of a locked framerate.TTP said:- V-Sync
- Rock solid 30fps
- Killzone 2 level motion blur
- More physics involved in environment interaction
- Better interaction between character animations and environment (no floating)
That's all I need tech wise.