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NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project

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I may have bit his head off but telling someone their viewpoints are complete and utter nonsense isn't exactly proactive towards good discussion. There, that's my explanation before any shit comes down on my head. I was in a mood but honestly a couple of ... somethings... questioning me on how honest I am and just straight up calling my viewpoint nonsense isn't exactly the kind of shit I need to deal with.
 

Kagey K

Banned
I may have bit his head off but telling someone their viewpoints are complete and utter nonsense isn't exactly proactive towards good discussion. There, that's my explanation before any shit comes down on my head. I was in a mood but honestly a couple of ... somethings... questioning me on how honest I am and just straight up calling my viewpoint nonsense isn't exactly the kind of shit I need to deal with.
Sounds like you need to deal with criticism better.
 

Kagey K

Banned
You didn't offer any criticism, just let me know you believe I'm biased and not a "true Halo fan" because no true scotsman arguments are great. If you have any criticism I'd like to see it.
Not gonna do this here.

Not the thread, but at least you acknowledged you were out of line.
 

Mista

Banned
:messenger_unamused:

450
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Have to disagree. Within reason, building a community, and having repartee and friendship amongst the discussion can take a forum from something fun, to truly special.

As long as things remain somewhat on-topic, I don't consider that a derail.
I understand what you're saying but it's unfair when certain group of people are warned / banned for the simplest reasons while others can bend the rules without any repercussions.

Mods have three choices:

1- they can start giving warnings / bans for the simplest reasons to all PS fans as well in order to be fair to everyone (because the same rules should apply to everyone, yes or no?). With this strategy probably many users will leave neogaf for good because the vast majority of people here are sony fans.

2- they can pretend the issue (or should I say xbox and PC fans) doesn't exist. With this strategy only xbox and PC fans will be upset.

3- mods can rethink their warning / banning policy and stop giving warnings / bans for the simplest reasons. With this strategy everyone should be happy.

Mods are humans too and I dont believe they have a time to review every single warning in a fair manner because it takes time to read multiple posts and conclude who started a fight for real. For example one of my warnings says my post was going to start a platform war but in reality the war was already raging before I even wrote anything, because one Sony guy has baited other xbox and PC fans as well into discuassion with totally absurd claim (he said PS5 games will look like next generation compared to XSX / PC games thanks to supperior I/O, and he was totally sure of it without any proofs). Moderator clearly didnt read the post I was trying to adress but found a paragraph just for me.

In my country we have this saying "give me somone and I will find a paragraph for him". Many users are easily triggered when they read something they dont want to hear and then they will overuse the report button. When mods will see there's a "trouble maker" then they will find a paragraph for him just to please people who push the report button.

But why so many people are overusing the report button? Most people report posts for platform warring reasons, but the problem is platform warring leaves way too much room for interpretation and especially when someone just want to make a joke (because of language barier not everyone will get the joke).
Also when you really think about it all users on neogaf have some preference towards certain platform and if mods would want to apply the same standards for everyone then everyone should be reported and banned for platform warring reasons😂. I'm not so sure if warnings and bans for platform warring reasons on gaming site are necessary. Something like that only censor people and create problems for miniorities (like xbox and PC fans) and I'm sure moderators dont like it either when they have to moderate hundreds of posts daily. Moderators on most forums moderate spam, and rude comments and they only censor people who post racists comments. Why neogaf mods cant give people freedom to talk about games how they like and only moderate people who really deserve to be punished for their rude behavior?
 

ZywyPL

Banned
The worst thing is, I see many people openly attacking each other, calling themselves "retards" and such, and that's apparently completely fine, because every time such situation happens mods just come up with a post like "stop it! if you want to insult each others take it to PMs", but when you say something bad about a damn piece of plastic that it's seen as "inappropriate behavior" that's ban/warning worthy... Maybe something is wrong with me, but IMO putting a dead item in front of actual human being is just so fucking wrong...
 

nush

Member
In my country we have this saying "give me somone and I will find a paragraph for him". Many users are easily triggered when they read something they dont want to hear and then they will overuse the report button. When mods will see there's a "trouble maker" then they will find a paragraph for him just to please people who push the report button.

GAF mods are not stupid, biased or ignorant of the Report Button being weaponized as an "I don't like what this person is saying" button. That's how it's been used on other forums but thankfully the mods here can see when it's being abused.

Take a step back from these paranoid consipracy theories that the mods are PS5 lov'in automatons that can't read the room.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
GAF mods are not stupid, biased or ignorant of the Report Button being weaponized as an "I don't like what this person is saying" button.




Why did I got a warning for this post? I still stand to what I said then, Cerny IMO doesn't have the so-called soft skills required to do the proper talking, he's not a spokesman, never has been he's a tech guy, a geek if you like, and that's exactly the reason why he's the leading architect designer and not the marketing director or some other high-level exec. If anyone got offended because I dared the to criticize his god Cerny that that's his own problem, but I thought mods are better than that? It looks like I'm not allowed to have a personal opinion/view on something if it goes against the broader audience's opinion, like I'm on REra or something...


Another one, which has apparently been deleted, but the warning states that:



I'm pretty confident that there was a clear "if" within my deleted post, because who knows, maybe the game will indeed share the same fate as let's say Resistance series, where the 3rd one despite being the best didn't do so well because of how different the 2nd game was from the original, which many fans didn't like and never gave the series a second chance afterwards. No one obviously knows how it'll all turn out in the long term for TLoU2, but I think asking questions/having doubts isn't a crime? Especially seeing the games isn't as universally acclaimed as some would like it to be, so I have all the rights to have those concerns. Or is it indeed a crime? Again, I can only imagine how many reports the post got, for no real reason other than "critique" of someones beloved brand.


And the recent one which I was actually informed about because I had to acknowledge it but it still bothers me the the most:


Like I said, jokes and having fun seems to be not allowed anymore on this forum? I had a good mood, wanted to post something funny, and I got a warning and 3 points instead, again, that's really encouraging to participle on the forum... But at the same time, the most obvious, low-effort troll/console warring threads are growing up like mushrooms after rain pretty much every single day and nothing is being done with them when XB and PS fanboys troll and attack each other like crazy. Back in the day, the so-called "old Gaf" a mod immediately closed such threads with the "No versus threads" comment and it served so damn well for everyone, but nowadays it seem there either is way to few mods to handle the moderation, or they simply don't engage unless they don't receive appropriate reports. But whatever, it's not my site, you do as you see fit, but bottom line is, you could've just ask me for deleting the post if you thought it was inappropriate, which I would do without any issues, because I cannot guess how others (including mods) will view my posts, especially in the sensitive pre-generation launch times where apparently everyone gets offended by everything, but again, who is to blame here? I cannot take responsibility for random strangers form the internet who devoted themselves into plastic wars, nor should I be punished for them.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I understand what you're saying but it's unfair when certain group of people are warned / banned for the simplest reasons while others can bend the rules without any repercussions.

Mods have three choices:

1- they can start giving warnings / bans for the simplest reasons to all PS fans as well in order to be fair to everyone (because the same rules should apply to everyone, yes or no?). With this strategy probably many users will leave neogaf for good because the vast majority of people here are sony fans.

2- they can pretend the issue (or should I say xbox and PC fans) doesn't exist. With this strategy only xbox and PC fans will be upset.

3- mods can rethink their warning / banning policy and stop giving warnings / bans for the simplest reasons. With this strategy everyone should be happy.

Mods are humans too and I dont believe they have a time to review every single warning in a fair manner because it takes time to read multiple posts and conclude who started a fight for real. For example one of my warnings says my post was going to start a platform war but in reality the war was already raging before I even wrote anything, because one Sony guy has baited other xbox and PC fans as well into discuassion with totally absurd claim (he said PS5 games will look like next generation compared to XSX / PC games thanks to supperior I/O, and he was totally sure of it without any proofs). Moderator clearly didnt read the post I was trying to adress but found a paragraph just for me.

In my country we have this saying "give me somone and I will find a paragraph for him". Many users are easily triggered when they read something they dont want to hear and then they will overuse the report button. When mods will see there's a "trouble maker" then they will find a paragraph for him just to please people who push the report button.

But why so many people are overusing the report button? Most people report posts for platform warring reasons, but the problem is platform warring leaves way too much room for interpretation and especially when someone just want to make a joke (because of language barier not everyone will get the joke).
Also when you really think about it all users on neogaf have some preference towards certain platform and if mods would want to apply the same standards for everyone then everyone should be reported and banned for platform warring reasons😂. I'm not so sure if warnings and bans for platform warring reasons on gaming site are necessary. Something like that only censor people and create problems for miniorities (like xbox and PC fans) and I'm sure moderators dont like it either when they have to moderate hundreds of posts daily. Moderators on most forums moderate spam, and rude comments and they only censor people who post racists comments. Why neogaf mods cant give people freedom to talk about games how they like and only moderate people who really deserve to be punished for their rude behavior?

You did get warned for the simplest of reasons: unsubstantiated 9.2TF claims. Simple reasons are not bad reasons.

Nowhere else in the history of video games have official specs been contested to this degree without any evidence.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
GAF mods are not stupid, biased or ignorant of the Report Button being weaponized as an "I don't like what this person is saying" button. That's how it's been used on other forums but thankfully the mods here can see when it's being abused.

Take a step back from these paranoid consipracy theories that the mods are PS5 lov'in automatons that can't read the room.
This entire thread proves you are wrong, because many people repeat exactly the same thing about their warnings and bans.

You are saying it's only conspiracy theory when people suggest neogaf mods have different standards for sony fans, but look what happened few pages ago. One sony fan has asked mods to cancel his warning just because he is a sony fan. You can also look who is allowed to post in next gen thread, not many xbox / PC fans want to do that, because everybody knows how it ends. Like it or not, but even sony fans knows there are different standards for them here on neogaf.
 
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Saber

Gold Member
The worst thing is, I see many people openly attacking each other, calling themselves "retards" and such, and that's apparently completely fine, because every time such situation happens mods just come up with a post like "stop it! if you want to insult each others take it to PMs", but when you say something bad about a damn piece of plastic that it's seen as "inappropriate behavior" that's ban/warning worthy... Maybe something is wrong with me, but IMO putting a dead item in front of actual human being is just so fucking wrong...

You mean stupid box wars? Like the ones we have 24/7? Silly of you comparing fighting against members, which I believe it might be sort throught talking, with console wars that feels like people are willing to take a bullet for the mister president(aka console). People having meltdowns, spreading false infos...all in the name of brands.

My brother wasn't kidding when he said "here we go again". Ascend even created a wall worth of text of complain, which I believe quite frankly was not worth reading(no offense).
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
Nowhere else in the history of video games have official specs been contested to this degree without any evidence.


You don't say...

ssd.jpg


ssd2.jpg



And that's not even the tip of the iceberg, I don't even want to think how many posts with baseless claims/theories there are in topics that have absolutely nothing to do with an SSD, many of the threads actually got closed because of that.
 

nush

Member
This entire thread proves you are wrong, because many people repeat exactly the same thing about their warnings and bans.
5DgMeQMa2zyTBfiUXg-rnMofIM89AOYUAPPzeYg_8sRIbuJcImVD5gfGyAIKqxRsXTRp7BRuArbacckDFFNSMvsysjQnFAkjFqxE8cH9HMbf03BLkhr4SNANR9f0UkQbunrXTdOWVFJxG_bPTHHKtGyDlQFUwg9Sukc



You are saying it's only conspiracy theory when people suggest neogaf mods have different standards for sony fans, but look what happened few pages ago. One sony fan has asked mods to cancel his warning just because he is a sony fan.

Provide a link with context.


You can also look who is allowed to post in next gen thread, not many xbox / PC fans want to do that, because everybody knows how it ends. Like it or not, but even sony fans knows there are different standards for them here on neogaf.

Onus is on you to back up these claims with links and evidence. But I guess you can't be bothered to do that as it will just show you're WongyMcwrong from Wrong town.

Hey mods.

i-think-i-can-handle-this-eurotrash.jpg
 
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Dory16

Banned
"SSDs are good" and "this console's spec sheet is false" are not equivalent statements.
With all respect, I don't think that anybody claims that the PS5 cannot reach 10.2 TF as advertised. There have been articles by the most respectable outlets that stated that it was a maximum but not sustained performance. Cerny himslef said to expect this to drop based on the workload and we had a developer in possession of a PS5 dev kit that said that Sony's preference was for games not to run at the max performance all the time. Nobody to my knowledge said that the PS5 console sheet was false and if someone did then yes they deserve a warning. It is however an undeniable fact that nobody knows the floor of the PS5 clock rates, that they do not stay at max capacity and that it wouldn't take much of a dip for them to take the console's compute power into the 9.0-9.99TF range. Those are all known facts and nobody should feel threatened for saying that the PS5 is not a sustained 10 TF console. Sony had every opportunity to state the floor rates of their clocks or to go with fixed clocks which would have left no room for such claims.
 
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GHG

Member
If you so desperately want to post about 9tf then just go here:


I'm sure you will find good company.
 

Ascend

Member
"SSDs are good" and "this console's spec sheet is false" are not equivalent statements.
When you get a warning for "exaggerating for effect", since you called out people that are pretending that the XSX has no SSD by posting videos comparing HDDs to SSDs and saying that's how XSX will run vs PS5, and call them out saying they are implying that the XSX SSD is the equivalent of phones and tablets (which also use solid state storage), I don't know what else to tell you. It is a direct contradiction to the XSX specs. And that has been going on practically across the whole forum. If people have been banned for it, I have not seen it. I'll let you be the judge of that.

To most people, avoiding petty wars and personal insults is perfectly normal and respectful behavior. To you, it's an effort akin to avoiding the friggin' plague.


Please reflect on that for a moment.
And here we have yet another example of deliberately misrepresenting one's statement for some virtue or superiority signaling. Avoiding something like the plague is a common saying. Deliberately making it a literal statement to put someone else down is fucking nasty. Not to mention this is clearly bait. And shit like this doesn't get anyone warnings. 🤷‍♂️

Just for clarity, since here we apparently value 'evidence'...;
avoid like the plague
Evade or elude at any cost, shun. For example, Since Bob was taken into police custody, his friends have been avoiding him and his family like the plague. This seemingly modern expression dates from the Latin of the early Middle Ages, when Saint Jerome (a.d. 345–420) wrote, “Avoid, as you would the plague, a clergyman who is also a man of business.” The plague, a deadly infectious disease in his day, has been largely wiped out, but the term remains current.


Verb
avoid like the plague
(third-person singular simple present avoids like the plague, present participle avoiding like the plague, simple past and past participle avoided like the plague)
(simile) To evade or shun, if at all possible.


avoid like the plague
avoid (someone or something) like the plague
To consciously stay away from someone or something.

avoid someone or something like the plague
Fig. to ignore or keep away from someone or something totally. What's wrong with Bob? Everyone avoids him like the plague. I don't like opera. I avoid it like the plague.

avoid somebody/something like the ˈplague
(informal) avoid somebody/something completely: It was the sort of restaurant that I would normally have avoided like the plague.

As someone who fiercely dislikes dishonesty, misinformation and ignorance, I am inclined to correct certain things, and well, it's not always well received. Let's see how this one will be received.
 
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Oh wow we have another person who doesn't realize that if its 9.5 to 9.9 tfops that would still be considered a 10 teraflop machine because of the rules of rounding. Cerny said the performance could drop a few percent it is a logical leap most people would not be okay with to assume a few percent means it will drop as much as 10% for an amount of time long enough/often enough to call it a 9 teraflop machine.
 

Dory16

Banned
Oh wow we have another person who doesn't realize that if its 9.5 to 9.9 tfops that would still be considered a 10 teraflop machine because of the rules of rounding. Cerny said the performance could drop a few percent it is a logical leap most people would not be okay with to assume a few percent means it will drop as much as 10% for an amount of time long enough/often enough to call it a 9 teraflop machine.

The point is that this conversation about sustainability should be allowed to exist without dangling warning and ban threats over anyone who is curious about how long the console stays above 10TF on average. Sony opened the room for that interrogation with their design architecture and it is puzzling why the mods seem so invested in making sure that the debate doesn't even exist. It's getting close to thought censorship.
 
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cormack12

Gold Member
The point is that this conversation about sustainability should be allowed to exist without dangling warning and ban threats over anyone who is curious about how long the console stays above 10TF on average. Sony opened the room for that interrogation with their design architecture and it is puzzling why the mods seem so invested in making sure that the debate doesn't even exist. It's getting close to thought censorship.

But it does - in loads of threads because I've been bored to tears with you all warring about them. But you want the debate of sustanbility to essentially be 'let's call the PS5 9TF because we have nothing to come back with about craigs face'. 9TF indicates it's going to spend most of its time around 9.2TF, Cerny has diretly said he expects it to spend most of its time around 10TF. So it's up to you to prove Cerny is wrong. I really don't get the big deal? Why do you speficially need to say 9TF? The XSX is more powerful - who cares beyond that? Why don't we just call them both 10TF machines - that's pretty much the same isn't it? PS5 and XSX are both 10TF machine thereabouts. From all evidence, it looks like it will fluctuate from 9.95-10.3 when under game load, so 10TF is an accurate description unless you're trying to push an agenda. Which you are.

All of you are clinging to this old hope and dream that the github leak was right to score points, every ban gets told to provide evidence - where is it? Loads of people have had the opportunity and youre not going to get it until the machines come out. Honestly, you and the rest are just the opposite end of the Sony contignent in the next gen thread. Fucking crying like a baby because you wanna say 9TF about your opponents games console, do you know what comes across as to most grown ups reading this shit? How old are you ffs?
 

Dargor

Member
The point is that this conversation about sustainability should be allowed to exist without dangling warning and ban threats over anyone who is curious about how long the console stays above 10TF on average. Sony opened the room for that interrogation with their design architecture and it is puzzling why the mods seem so invested in making sure that the debate doesn't even exist. It's getting close to thought censorship.

They didn't though, paraphrasing cerny, he said that when the clock drops its "by a couple % to save 10% on energy".

So you can say he might be lying, but the clocks are defined.
 

Dory16

Banned
But it does - in loads of threads because I've been bored to tears with you all warring about them. But you want the debate of sustanbility to essentially be 'let's call the PS5 9TF because we have nothing to come back with about craigs face'. 9TF indicates it's going to spend most of its time around 9.2TF, Cerny has diretly said he expects it to spend most of its time around 10TF. So it's up to you to prove Cerny is wrong. I really don't get the big deal? Why do you speficially need to say 9TF? The XSX is more powerful - who cares beyond that? Why don't we just call them both 10TF machines - that's pretty much the same isn't it? PS5 and XSX are both 10TF machine thereabouts. From all evidence, it looks like it will fluctuate from 9.95-10.3 when under game load, so 10TF is an accurate description unless you're trying to push an agenda. Which you are.

All of you are clinging to this old hope and dream that the github leak was right to score points, every ban gets told to provide evidence - where is it? Loads of people have had the opportunity and youre not going to get it until the machines come out. Honestly, you and the rest are just the opposite end of the Sony contignent in the next gen thread. Fucking crying like a baby because you wanna say 9TF about your opponents games console, do you know what comes across as to most grown ups reading this shit? How old are you ffs?

I'll only reply to facts here, given that you question my maturity and the ability to separate facts from emotional whinging is a premium sign of maturity.
I personally never refer to the PS5 or any other console through its theoritical performance. I dare you right now to go through my post history and find a SINGLE instance of me saying that the PS5 was a 9 TF console. I'll wait.

I am concerned by a few things:
  1. We are 3 months before release and nobody knows the bottom clock rates of the PS5. We know they are variable, we know their max speed and we know where Cerny "expects" them to be (not based on any real game that's been announced for the PS%). As a consumer being asked to spend my hard earned cash on their product in the middle of a pandemic, I have the right to demand more transparency from Sony and you should too. The same way that you should wonder how Mike Morales looks in actual gameplay, given that the comes out in a few months. You have clearly been too busy making Craig memes to bother.
  2. If someone's basic right of freedom of expression are being trampled, then it bothers me even if I don't support his opinion. "They came for the atheists and I stayed quiet because I wasn't an atheist..." You know how that story ends
  3. I don't engage in coming back about Craig's face or Senua's face (care about that face?) or whatever the latest kindergarten joke about a plastic device I own no shares into is. "my opponents game console" is the kind of rethoric that separates gaming from any other industry. You wonder if people are speaking about political parties or really just entertainment products
 

Dory16

Banned

Dargor

Member
You seem to believe that they sit at the max speed and only occasionally drop below the max. This developer explains the opposite:

i7KWEqL.jpg

Source: https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-boost-clock-design-opens-up-a-lot-of-opportunities-says-dev/

This is my last post on the matter cuz its obvious you're invested. Some indy dev is a bigger authority than the guy who made the console on the matter, in your opinion. Its clear there can't be a productive conversation with you on this.
 

nush

Member

Dory16

Banned
This is my last post on the matter cuz its obvious you're invested. Some indy dev is a bigger authority than the guy who made the console on the matter, in your opinion. Its clear there can't be a productive conversation with you on this.
A good sign of being invested is when someone selects the facts they like.
You're right on the last part.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
The best solution to the console warring thing is to avoid users that are obviously too into it altogether. Its not like well thought out arguments can convice such people anyway, and there are too many of them for moderation to be effective. Sure it can sometimes be annoying to just leave them be, thiking they 'won' or some shit, but its better for your mental health in the long run.

Just go hangout at more constructive threads, or talk to users that actually listen to you.
 
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