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NeoGAF's Essential Rpgs (2011 edition)

kswiston

Member
Durante said:
kswiston, I just looked through the OP and it looks really nice aesthetically with the logo / screenshot / art piece setup. Great job.

But I noticed that the logo image for Xenogears had some ugly MPG artifacting and overall crummy quality, so I found a better one - it's also not cut off (I had to photoshop it a bit to remove the square logo):


I switched the old logo out for the one you provided. Thanks!
 

kswiston

Member
I added pictures/summaries for 21-25. Moving a bit slower now that I actually have to make most of the new summaries instead of reusing what I had last year. More to come.
 
Legendary Warrior said:
Sure, but I guess my point is that ME1's plot doesn't really get better with age (it's fun, don't get me wrong, but it's not exactly deep), and once you can look past that aspect the problems with the gameplay really make themselves apparent.
This applies to every RPG ever made.

Legendary Warrior said:
I kinda stopped trying to fix games through modding after Oblivion. Seems like a "band-aid over a bullet hole" solution to me.
That's a personal choice. If some one resolves their issue with the game by using mods/patches/fixes then from the point of view the flaws in the game wouldn't become more apparent and obvious over time.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Wait, are you talking about bad stories or mediocre gameplay?
Story remains the same over time while the gameplay becomes subjectively worse due to limitations in technology or design becoming apparent over time.

Obviously I was stupid for saying every rpg. Because yes some games are well designed and wills stand up to the test of time. But thats not the case for pretty much any RPG that I have ever liked.
 
corkscrewblow said:
Demons Souls doesn't feel like an RPG to you but Mass Effect does? wut
Missed this one. But yes, yes it does. Here's my answer from the what is an RPG thread.
Lostconfused said:
At this point to me an RPG is probably a game with combat and non combat phases. If you have a game that is a a crummy 3rd person shooter where you choose a "good" or "bad" option every once in a while but no interaction outside of levels where combat takes place then its a sequel to army of two and not mass effect. If you don't have any kind of combat then its probably an adventure game.

Edit: Its not that clear cut though obviously. I mean presumably in Zelda you spend a lot of time outside of combat but I don't think I would call it an RPG.
 

tiff

Banned
Lostconfused said:
This applies to every RPG ever made.
Well yeah? What I'm implying is that once ME1 tries to stand on the merits of its gameplay it falls apart. Obviously people disagree and that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around; I can't really think of a gameplay element that was particularly well-realized, so I'm really wondering if the game's plot and concept carried it along even on subsequent playthroughs or if people just saw something in the gameplay that I didn't.

I don't really want to derail the thread, though, so it's probably just best that I drop it.
Lostconfused said:
That's a personal choice. If some one resolves their issue with the game by using mods/patches/fixes then from the point of view the flaws in the game wouldn't become more apparent and obvious over time.
Of course. Like I said, it wasn't a good comparison so I'm not going to bother arguing it.
 
finalozzo said:
xenogears should be in the first position, and i don't see persona 2 ._. (persona 4 instead, wtf?)
It's the FFVII syndrome -- most people have only played Persona 4, without realizing Persona 2 is far and away a million times better.

Edit: and for the record, the only thing even remotely unique about FFVII is Midgar and it throws that away like a bad habit 5 hours in which is terrible because the game would have been actually good had it just stayed in Midgar.
 
ZephyrFate said:
and for the record, the only thing even remotely unique about FFVII is Midgar and it throws that away like a bad habit 5 hours in which is terrible because the game would have been actually good had it just stayed in Midgar.

Yeah, I was really disappointed you only got to ever explore 2 sectors(or rather the halves of 2 sectors since you never even get to travel to the upper plates).
 

Wazzim

Banned
Fimbulvetr said:
Yeah, I was really disappointed you only got to ever explore 2 sectors(or rather the halves of 2 sectors since you never even get to travel to the upper plates).
The whole game should've been on a smaller scale IMO.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Yeah, I was really disappointed you only got to ever explore 2 sectors(or rather the halves of 2 sectors since you never even get to travel to the upper plates).
and the worst part is that Midgar has the strongest atmosphere and detail I've ever seen a Final Fantasy game have. There's so much fucking potential there. It could have been Blade Runner: The RPG if Square didn't feel like making it generic as fuck again.

Ah well.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Fugu said:
Holy god, words cannot describe how much I disagree with this list.

No Wizardry? Ultima? No gold box games in the top thirty? Might and Magic? Demon's Souls in the Top 20 but no sign of Diablo (2), any hack n' slash or roguelike? Where's the original Baldur's Gate? Were MMOs specifically excluded from this list?

It's definitely not just GAF that has a nineties Nintendo/modern bias, but the force is strong in this one. I suppose this is a good ranking of major console RPGs with some high-key PC games thrown in for fun but it categorically ignores the entire library of PC RPGs before the year 2000.
1.) Older games are always going to be at a disadvantage on any list since not as many people will have played them (who are voting). Hell, there were probably people voting in this thread who weren't even alive when those games came out.

2.) PC games have always been at a disadvantage for these lists on GAF.

3.) Alot of the console/JRPG series on these lists are still getting new iterations, which means those franchises are going to be more on the mind of modern gamers than those old PC games which haven't (sadly) been relevant for years.

4.) Console/JRPGs simply have a statistical advantage over older computer WRPGs thanks to the sheer number of them out there.

5.) If it makes you feel better, Diablo 2 will probably do very well on this list once Diablo 3 comes out.
 

Durante

Member
grandjedi6 said:
5.) If it makes you feel better, Diablo 2 will probably do very well on this list once Diablo 3 comes out.
That's an interesting point. If it happens again we can call it the Mass Effect effect.
 

Garcia

Member
Xenogears needs to slowly escalate to the top ten ! !! Makes me wonder how many ppl didn't mind to finish the game because of the rushed 2nd disc. I've learned of plenty who left the game unfinished.... Little do they know the best part of Xenogears lies dormant in it's 2nd half. Fucking Squaresoft rushing and killing what should've been the best RPG of the forever.
 
gunstarhero said:
Not a bad list, but the lack of Phantasy 1, 2, or 4 is disappointing.

Phantasy Star 2 or 4, I could see, but 1? Hell NAW. That game has aged horribly. Its a pain in the ass to play.
 
Pinko Marx said:
Phantasy Star 2 or 4, I could see, but 1? Hell NAW. That game has aged horribly. Its a pain in the ass to play.

2 is the only Phantasy Star I've played, but I would have to say the same applies to it. Way too much grinding and needlessly complicated dungeons.
 
If Konami ever makes Suikoden 2 more available to non-Japanese players, I hope to see it climb into the top 10.

Do we have any idea how many votes the DQ series got? Aside from a bad localization history (until recently), the lack of a consensus "favorite" DQ must have hurt the series' representation in this poll.
 

Haunted

Member
The thought just occurred to me that we should have some terribly awful RPGs in this list as well. I mean, it's essential to know how RPGs should not be, to provide some perspective. Final Fantasy XIII etc.
 
I think a bottom 10 list would be interesting.

(Actually I just want Sweet Home to have more exposure, because it's such an underappreciated gem)
 

Celine

Member
decoyplatypus said:
If Konami ever makes Suikoden 2 more available to non-Japanese players, I hope to see it climb into the top 10.

Do we have any idea how many votes the DQ series got? Aside from a bad localization history (until recently), the lack of a consensus "favorite" DQ must have hurt the series' representation in this poll.
Yup, that's why I voted two DraQue. Still it's such a high quality and constant series <3
 

Finalow

Member
ZephyrFate said:
It's the FFVII syndrome -- most people have only played Persona 4, without realizing Persona 2 is far and away a million times better.
it's sad but you are fucking right.
 
Some Dragon Quest numbers (unofficial):

DQI: 3 votes
DQII: 0 votes
DQIII: 4 votes
DQIV: 6 votes
DQV: 21 votes
DQVI: 1 vote
DQVII: 3 votes
DQVIII: 14 votes
DQIX: 6 votes

Total: 58 votes

I was wrong. Unless its influence was subtle, consistency probably wasn't a major factor in keeping the series out of the top 10. I think we can safely call DQV and VIII the GAF favorites.
 

kswiston

Member
decoyplatypus said:
Some Dragon Quest numbers (unofficial):

DQI: 3 votes
DQII: 0 votes
DQIII: 4 votes
DQIV: 6 votes
DQV: 21 votes
DQVI: 1 vote
DQVII: 3 votes
DQVIII: 14 votes
DQIX: 6 votes

Total: 58 votes

I was wrong. Unless its influence was subtle, consistency probably wasn't a major factor in keeping the series out of the top 10. I think we can safely call DQV and VIII the GAF favorites.

These are the official numbers I have as well, save that I counted 7 votes for DQ9 instead of 6.

Dragon Quest did a lot better last year. Maybe not so coincidentally, I have noticed that a lot of DQ-GAF has left the site recently (or at least stopped posting in the last few months).
 
decoyplatypus said:
Some Dragon Quest numbers (unofficial):

DQI: 3 votes
DQII: 0 votes
DQIII: 4 votes
DQIV: 6 votes
DQV: 21 votes
DQVI: 1 vote
DQVII: 3 votes
DQVIII: 14 votes
DQIX: 6 votes

Total: 58 votes

I was wrong. Unless its influence was subtle, consistency probably wasn't a major factor in keeping the series out of the top 10. I think we can safely call DQV and VIII the GAF favorites.
I'm glad to see Dragon Quest V gets the love it deserves among the series, at least. Still, I'm sad to see many people ignore the series entirely.
 

kswiston

Member
Summaries are now up for the Top 30 in the OP. I will probably do summaries for #31-40 and then just list the rest.

Anyhow, for those interested, here are the next 10:

31 Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow
32 Diablo 2
32 Final Fantasy 10
32 Final Fantasy 4
32 Mother 3
36 Fallout: New Vegas
36 Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
38 Chrono Cross
39 Dragon Quest 8
39 World of Warcraft - 14 votes


Lots of ties like last time.

EDIT: I have beaten/extensively played 29 out of the top 40. Not too bad I guess, but there are some gaping holes in my wrpg experience, like Planescape Torment (played the first 2 hours), the Witcher, and The first Fallout (played/beat 2 through New Vegas though).
 

MechaX

Member
ZephyrFate said:
It's the FFVII syndrome -- most people have only played Persona 4, without realizing Persona 2 is far and away a million times better.

I love Persona 2 (both EP and IS), but the gameplay for both have not really aged well. At all. Hell, the rolling battle system for IS is an absolute mess (at the very least, EP introduced a turn-by-turn option), they're both pretty grind heavy especially in regards to negotiation and gaining tarot cards, and for any bit of criticism that can be made against the Once More system, it's still a step up from the "spam Strongest Fusion Spell on every turn have Maya/Lisa/whoever heal every single turn" that will literally autopilot you through almost every single battle outside of a boss spike or two (most notably, the Metal Trio in EP and the Final Boss of IS).

The story for both P4 and P2 IS/EP are pretty well done for what they set to accomplish and neither of them are perfect (biggest knock on P2's corner being Tatsuya's angst overload in EP).
 
MechaX said:
I love Persona 2 (both EP and IS), but the gameplay for both have not really aged well. At all. Hell, the rolling battle system for IS is an absolute mess (at the very least, EP introduced a turn-by-turn option), they're both pretty grind heavy especially in regards to negotiation and gaining tarot cards, and for any bit of criticism that can be made against the Once More system, it's still a step up from the "spam Strongest Fusion Spell on every turn have Maya/Lisa/whoever heal every single turn" that will literally autopilot you through almost every single battle outside of a boss spike or two (most notably, the Metal Trio in EP and the Final Boss of IS).

The story for both P4 and P2 IS/EP are pretty well done for what they set to accomplish and neither of them are perfect (biggest knock on P2's corner being Tatsuya's angst overload in EP).
P2 has better pacing, arguably better characters (that try their best to not be anime tropes), better overall plot and a more interesting psychological expose. It's not some clear black-and-white "PERSONA IS A REPRESENTATION OF MY TRUE FEELINGS LOL" happy go lucky shit P4 tries to shove on you.
 

Wallach

Member
I somehow find it very odd that BG2 and PS:T can be so high on this list yet FO3 winds up significantly higher than FO1/2.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I'm playing Planescape: Torment now and finding it hard to stay awake. Surprised it's so high... same with the first Mass Effect, that game had one of the poorest combat systems ever devised... guess people tend to prefer setting/atmosphere at the exclusion of gameplay.
 
decoyplatypus said:
If Konami ever makes Suikoden 2 more available to non-Japanese players, I hope to see it climb into the top 10.

Do we have any idea how many votes the DQ series got? Aside from a bad localization history (until recently), the lack of a consensus "favorite" DQ must have hurt the series' representation in this poll.

That, and DQ is still very niche over here, even with Nintendo's promotion of 9.
 
djtiesto said:
I'm playing Planescape: Torment now and finding it hard to stay awake. Surprised it's so high... same with the first Mass Effect, that game had one of the poorest combat systems ever devised... guess people tend to prefer setting/atmosphere at the exclusion of gameplay.
Its writing, setting, and atmosphere are enough, definitely. It has writing on par with many novels, I'd argue.
 

kswiston

Member
I had to take a break from my work on this thread because I was out of town visiting for a week and a half over the new year. However, I have resumed work on it, and plan on finishing what I said I would.

Summaries for #31-36 are now up. Going to Finish up to #40 today.

After the top 40, I will just list everything else that received at least 4 votes. 94 games in total by my count.
 

kswiston

Member
Not sure how many people still care about the rankings, but I added games ranked 41+ for those interested. Sorry for the huge delay. I became busy with other things.

Thanks again to those who voted!
 
Thanks kswiston, I appreciate the effort. Pretty nice list this year. I own 50 games, I've played 61, and I've completed 38 games from the list. The rest are all titles I'm interested in trying out in the future.
 

mrpeabody

Member
jjasper said:
It isn't like there a whole lot of other Bioware RPGs. Isn't it just Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights? Neither I would put above the ones listed and not sure where I would put them in the list (If at all for NWN).

Bioware-developed PC-only RPGs: Baldur's Gate, BG2, NWN

Bioware-developed PC and console RPGs: KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Dragon Age

Bioware-developed console-only RPGs: Sonic Chronicles

Games using a Bioware engine but not developed by Bioware: Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, KOTOR 2, NWN2, The Witcher
 
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