Hypothetically if f Nintendo incorporated these changes + a healthy amount of new characters/courses, and released it as a whole new game similar to a Fighting Game upgrade/Pokemon 3rd Version, would you buy it?
Yeah, i'd buy a mario kart 8 hyper drifting tourney championship ultra edition, or at least i'd buy a dlc upgrade/ expansion. I'd probably feel a little bad about it at first unless the number of arenas and courses was particularly beastly, though.
King boo and petey piranha would make buyer's remorse impossible though.
I find a lot of accidental mechanics/exploits/bugs in games can lead to making the games more interesting and fun. Combos in Street Fighter II, strafe jumping in Quake, wave dashing in Tekken/Capcom Vs/Smash Bros were accidental techniques that added depth to their games. Sometimes unintentional parts of games can be a good thing.
Mario Kart games have never had particularly great balance, so it's not surprising that specific play styles are better than others. In my opinion the better choice, as mention above, would be to let inside drifting bikes fire hop, or to buff them in a way to make their play style more rewarding. I think fire hopping is a good middle ground between standard racing and the craziness of snaking. It rewards skilful play without disrupting how the game plays as much as snaking did.
I would perhaps feel better about it if all vehicles could do it. But the fact that it's limited to only certain vehicles means if you're going to play online, chances are you're not going to pick the ones that can't firehop if you want to place well.
Firehopping in its current iteration takes something away from the game.
I dont see the point of a minimap on the screen with knowing the course, rear view and having the gamepad if you really feel the need.
Also doesnt the acceleration stat only activate if you have a full section of the bar? Surprised that isnt mentioned as it would fit along with the more varied parts request, since currently that means a lot of part combos provide useless amounts of acceleration.
All good suggestions, I really hope more is added to MK8. Its so good
The way it sounds now is "true random" item distribution, which is the most fair....but people want it so you get rewarded for sucking?
I haven't played it yet, so I ask : How is the item pressure on MK8's standings? In other words, do items have a greater impact on race outcome than racing skill? Moreso than past MKs? Less?
Because if the item pressure is high, then true random means you end up with random outcomes, regardless of skill. If the item pressure is weak, then high skill players win consistently. If it's medium, you end up with the occasional "That was bullshit" game.
What? The way it's supposed to be set up is that people in back get offensive items while people up front get defensive items. "True random" distribution where people of front get Bullet Bills and Lightning while people in back get Bananas makes no sense.
The way it sounds now is "true random" item distribution, which is the most fair....but people want it so you get rewarded for sucking?
I haven't played it yet, so I ask : How is the item pressure on MK8's standings? In other words, do items have a greater impact on race outcome than racing skill? Moreso than past MKs? Less?
Because if the item pressure is high, then true random means you end up with random outcomes, regardless of skill. If the item pressure is weak, then high skill players win consistently. If it's medium, you end up with the occasional "That was bullshit" game.
They removed collecting an item while dragging an item behind you. This means it is harder to defend while in the lead and also less likely that you will get hit by a barrage of items. Unlucky runs still happen, but I feel like the game as it is rewards skill most of the time. When I was playing it every day I was almost always in the top 3 while playing online and had friends who were able to do the same.
Also, this new options menu should include how the screen is split (horizontally/vertically) for two-player split-screen. What the hell is it with this modern trend of splitting the screen vertically? I don't need to see more of the sky and ground, I need to see what's around me on the sides!
What? The way it's supposed to be set up is that people in back get offensive items while people up front get defensive items. "True random" distribution where people of front get Bullet Bills and Lightning while people in back get Bananas makes no sense.
1) Basically everyone but first place needs offensive items. So really, no one wants a banana peel.
2) Items are not created equal. Not even close. All defensive items are worse than pretty much any offensive item. Offensive items almost inherently have an advantage, they improve your placement and hurt someone else's placement. Neutral items (like mushroom boosts) are equally useful for 1st place or beneath.
Basically, giving offensive items to players further back is always a greater advantage than just giving them a random item. It's rubber banding systemically.
A red shell for first place is more useful (in case someone passes them) than anything other than a star (though I'm unaware of any new MK items in 8, I'm open to hear about new strategies).
The issue with MK8's item balance is that the boosting items you get in low positions are not powerful enough--if you get hit early on, barring a miracle, you are fucked.
There is. The problem is, there are no proper battle arenas, like there were in past Mario Karts. Instead, you play on courses that were designed for races, which doesn't really work very well.
Options menu, stats page, no fire hopping, and vehicle save slots are all great ideas. Things like "bad netcode" and "poor item balance" just makes me think that a lot of people just have bad connections or are bad at the game, respectively. I guess that makes sense though.
They're never gonna fix that gamepad thing though, they said it ruins the competitive nature or whatever.
The way it sounds now is "true random" item distribution, which is the most fair....but people want it so you get rewarded for sucking?
I haven't played it yet, so I ask : How is the item pressure on MK8's standings? In other words, do items have a greater impact on race outcome than racing skill? Moreso than past MKs? Less?
Because if the item pressure is high, then true random means you end up with random outcomes, regardless of skill. If the item pressure is weak, then high skill players win consistently. If it's medium, you end up with the occasional "That was bullshit" game.
Because who anyone who has 1st place after 1st lap has a huge chance of finishing 1st, same issue MK DS had. It just isn't fun online.
You have 12 people and 11 of them are constantly being hit with items, while 1st place wins by 10secs
There is. The problem is, there are no proper battle arenas, like there were in past Mario Karts. Instead, you play on courses that were designed for races, which doesn't really work very well.
This isn't true. It's really easy for 2nd/3rd place to get triple red shells, which are the best item in the game. It's also really easy for 1st to get hit by a blue shell if they're too far ahead.
MrBean's hack will make people be able to make a lot of battle arenas anyway.
The only thing that really needs to be patched imho is the item system. Getting coins in first position when you have already all 10 of them is simply wrong.
Item balance is definitely a good one. Getting a red shell in 2-4 positions is way too common. Its even possible to get a blue shell in second place. Its ridiculous.
MrBean's hack will make people be able to make a lot of battle arenas anyway.
The only thing that really needs to be patched imho is the item system. Getting coins in first position when you have already all 10 of them is simply wrong.
Completely disagree with fire hopping. It's not an exploit but a technique for the more skilled players. Taking Fire Hopping away just takes any any skill required to be good. It'll be very boring to play. L 2 FireHop No0bs!
Also, get rid of the Wii U game pad split screen. If you're playing with 4 people, the Wii U gamepad splits into 4 screens? Why? Only one person is using it.
Well I am a Time Trial enthusiast and while I love the ability to download Player ghosts and view them, it would be great if in the list, it tells you exactly which car other players used to set the time.
I am more than satisfied with Mario Kart 8 but this along with other changes requested here would make a great game, near perfect!
Because who anyone who has 1st place after 1st lap has a huge chance of finishing 1st, same issue MK DS had. It just isn't fun online.
You have 12 people and 11 of them are constantly being hit with items, while 1st place wins by 10secs
This isn't true. It's really easy for 2nd/3rd place to get triple red shells, which are the best item in the game. It's also really easy for 1st to get hit by a blue shell if they're too far ahead.
See, this is what happens when you put in true random implementations. Everyone is going to see what they want to see (or what they don't want to see).
See, this is what happens when you put in true random implementations. Everyone is going to see what they want to see (or what they don't want to see).
I'm pretty sure it's not truly random. The problem people have is that there's still a tiny chance of getting a coin in the lower places, and they want something to win the game for them.
It's not worse, it's useless, and it happens at least 3 out of 4 times. I made multiple races by using only fucking coins while being first. It's not only unjust, it's most importantly BORING. When you get good at this game, it turns completely boring even at mirror mode or online.
Oh and fuck not being able to have two items at a time.
This isn't true. It's really easy for 2nd/3rd place to get triple red shells, which are the best item in the game. It's also really easy for 1st to get hit by a blue shell if they're too far ahead.
The person in second getting triple reds is rare, and the person in third getting them is more likely to help the person in first than it is to hurt them. In MK8, once you are in the pack, it becomes very, very difficult to escape it, what with shells, fireballs, and boomerangs flying everywhere. The lower your position, the more likely it is that the person behind you will get something that absolutely wrecks you.
I'm pretty sure it's not truly random. The problem people have is that there's still a tiny chance of getting a coin in the lower places, and they want something to win the game for them.
Sure, I have no idea and I'd really doubt it's true random (almost no developer does that anymore)...it's just the idea that it should be further away from true random to make it "better" shows that people don't really want a fair fight in Mario Kart.
The person in second getting triple reds is rare, and the person in third getting them is more likely to help the person in first than it is to hurt them. In MK8, once you are in the pack, it becomes very, very difficult to escape it, what with shells, fireballs, and boomerangs flying everywhere. The lower your position, the more likely it is that the person behind you will get something that absolutely wrecks you.
The person in second getting triple reds is rare, and the person in third getting them is more likely to help the person in first than it is to hurt them. In MK8, once you are in the pack, it becomes very, very difficult to escape it, what with shells, fireballs, and boomerangs flying everywhere. The lower your position, the more likely it is that the person behind you will get something that absolutely wrecks you.
If you're a good racer, you'll escape the pack no problem. Even if you get knocked into it, solid fundamentals will get you out. Once you're out, you can trail first place and wait for them to make a mistake/wait for a blue shell/red shells, which will come. You won't get first every time (unless everyone's bad, which happens with ransoms and used to happen from time to time in GAF lobbies), but you'll get top 3 more or less every time.
It's really not the hard, the items are balanced well. Some people just have really poor fundamentals and want the game to win itself.
If you're a good racer, you'll escape the pack no problem. Even if you get knocked into it, solid fundamentals will get you out. Once you're out, you can trail first place and wait for them to make a mistake/wait for a blue shell/red shells, which will come. You won't get first every time (unless everyone's bad, which happens with ransoms and used to happen from time to time in GAF lobbies), but you'll get top 3 more or less every time.
It's really not the hard, the items are balanced well. Some people just have really poor fundamentals and want the game to win itself.
I don't care about top 3. I want to win. If I get hit out of first, I'd at least like a CHANCE to be able to get into first again. Otherwise, I might as well just give up the race.
In my experience, in rooms where the skill gap between the players is small, who gets ahead is mostly dependent on who starts in high positions (starting in first gives you a huge advantage in this game, and if you start in the back half, it will pretty much take a miracle to get ahead), and who gets lucky with items at the beginning. Assuming they don't get hit out of it at the beginning of the race, the person in first will just collect all of the coins that are in good positions, preventing the person in second from doing the same, and get farther and farther ahead. Once they get a certain distance ahead, only a blue shell (which aren't all that frequent anymore) or triple reds from the person in second (which are very rare) will stop them. And if everyone else gets hit once, which happens quite often, even a blue shell won't stop them. And when everyone else keeps beating the shit out of each other with items, it only helps the person in first even more.
If the person in first does get hit out of it, apply what I said to the new person in first.
Oh, and I meant to reply to this one earlier, but forgot about it:
Completely disagree with fire hopping. It's not an exploit but a technique for the more skilled players. Taking Fire Hopping away just takes any any skill required to be good. It'll be very boring to play. L 2 FireHop No0bs!
Agree with most of it but couldn't disagree more with the item balance. I got Super Mario Kart at launch back in the day, and every single MK since, and I really feel like this is the first time I've been entirely happy with the item balance. It's fantastic.
There's just enough wacky and random shit that can happen (like a 1 in 100 chance of getting triple reds in 2nd, or 1 in 10 chance of that depressing coin when in last), but at the same time usually you get what you deserve. Which is typically shells or mushrooms for the middle of the pack.
The item balance for the people in 1st and 2nd is stunning. I've played 100s of races, and when in first you feel like you have all the tools you need to defend if you play your cards right. In second you have a reasonably chance of beating the guy in first if you're good with green shells. It's very exciting. Add to this the fact that most races pass without a single blue shell and the scene at the top is pretty much perfect.
I think that the characters in 10th-12th probably need less mushrooms and better items, but I'm never lower than 6th for more than a couple of seconds so I can't really say.
The stats screen and options menus should have been there from the start though. Huge oversight.
If you're better than everyone else in the room by a good amount, you are almost always going to win--you shouldn't have much problem recovering even if you're hit. But that's the case in pretty much every MK game, though.
I'd like an onscreen minimap, but it isn't vital. Just nice for those of us who don't use the gamepad at all (not going to rearrange furniture for the sole purpose of being able to glance at a second screen). It's fun whether in-game or watching a vid/stream to check on what's happening to your friend and you can troll shock much more effectively
I personally dislike item spying, that's just me. But in MK7 at least everyone was dealing with the same information. Here it once again depends on if you have the gamepad nearby or not. If not, you can from time to time be at a slight disadvantage. Nothing major, and I even suppose that spying could be useful if/when some kind of hacking arises, but I'm not a fan.
Finally, on to everyone's favorite subject: firehopping. I actually like it. Karts deserved a measure of revenge after MKW and Nintendo obliged, pulling a DICE with the total pendulum swing of (im)balance. Love it!
Seriously though, I feel like it's a bit overblown on two levels. First, it's nowhere near as bad as snaking. You hop back and forth. Anyone can do that. Snaking in Double Dash/MKDS (while fun!) was a nonstop assault on your thumb which many people (understandably) were not interested in tolerating.
Secondly, balance: Ok, inside-drifting bikes can't do it. But on the whole they're easier to drive, have a slightly slimmer hitbox and suffer no stability/weight penalty. For all that they're still only like 1-2 seconds slower around the course in a time trial environment, which is nothing when translated into online play. Now firehopping certainly widens that gap (I said overblown, not nonexistent!), but bikes are still perfectly viable online. Whatever they lose in speed on certain parts of a track (sometimes hardly any, depending on track and traffic) is made up for in other ways. The serious balance issue in the game is occurring way down at a fundamental level where the stats between weight classes are totally out of whack.
tl:dr: onscreen minimap good, item spy bad, hopping fine, character balance most important of all.
Number 4 pisses me off so much. Nintendo, you make your console $50-$100 more expensive by including the Gamepad, sell me a line about how it opens up amazing new gameplay experiences, and then you can't even be arsed to use it in the most obvious and practical way imaginable.
Oh man, so damn right. I was hoping for some fun ways using the game page or even having a 5players mode. Instead we don't even have a map and many other flaws.
Agreed with most, although I don't have much of a problem with item balance. I've played for at least 20 hours, so either I'm incredibly lucky or I think the item balance is the best it's ever been. The only real issue I see is that in second place, you get picked on rather unfairly compared to someone in first. But that must be hard to fix.
I found it funny scrolling down because I knew battle mode would be number 1. Rightly so, what a joke we didn't get arenas. It would be nice if we got a couple arenas as free DLC. I wouldn't mind paying for more after that, but if we didn't get a couple free it would feel a little sleazy, since in the past battle mode has been a full features included with the base game.
And stuff like stats, better netcode and options would be great.
Item spying is essential for me to guarantee a victory. It tells me when I should be ready to use a banana as soon as the player behind me releases their offensive item. Also when to use whatever item as soon as someone gets a lightning bolt.
I do not agree with the option menu inclusion. I think that is useless.
The Wii U games get their settings from the Wii U console, for example if the user sets the sound to surround in the console's options, MK8 will have surround.
Also I think that the item balance is fine. Even if I'm at last place and only get coins, I can catch up the first 3 racers, because of practice...
I disagree with the item balance change and think it's both disrespectful and makes the list seem less serious with the comments about the programming being done by drunks.
It was clearly intentional. People complained back in Mario Kart Wii and now that they changed it up all of a sudden they want it back. Personally I prefer this new system as all that happened in Mario Kart Wii was that when you're near the back you were guaranteed a Bullet Bill or Lightning or an overpowered Star and you would finish the race in 6th or 7th. Now however you need to fight your way up. Also, what is wrong with second place (rarely) getting a crazy 8? Were't a lot of the complaints about the second player only getting Green Shells and Bananas and therefore the player in front guarding against everything while player 2 held onto these items for defence and therefore never caught up?
The item balance is a matter of taste at best and therefore in my opinion should not be included in the list as a change. It brings the credibility of the list down, when there are far more important lacking features like the mini-map or gamepad full-screen play or not being able to view your coin count, which I appreciate are mentioned but the full attention should be on these.
Even this: "Tweak item balance; e.g. 2nd place should not be able to get crazy 8 and triple reds; 8th place should not be able to get coins." sounds very demanding and telling them HOW to design their own game, whereas everything else is simply asking for features.
You shouldn't pay for something, that should have been included in the game, from the beginning. No mini map for the main screen doesn't make any sense.
8, 3 and 1 (hooray, I'm quoted!) are the absolute priorities for me. The others would be nice additions, but item balancing, online lag/disconnections and the general uselessness of battle mode need serious correcting as soon as possible.
Regarding the net-code:
I've been thinking about it, and the way it is now, is a way that makes a lot of sense. We get phantom item hits because the offended party has authority, which means that if someone throws a green shell your way, it's you that decide if you get hit, or not. Imagine if it was the other way around. Then the pow-block would be useless, since it wouldn't matter when you saw a shell approaching, and you wouldn't be able to time when to use it. You couldn't purposefully drift away from the trajectory of a green shell. You would get hit by someone holding a banana peel behind them that's behind you.
Authority should lie with the offended party.
As for race results changing as you finish the race, that's each and every player submitting their exact completion time, and them ending up in the right place according to that. Can you suggest anything that makes more sense?
How about MK's version of Boost Escape (SART)? Here are 2 ideas on how it could be done:
-instantly trade x amount of coins for Defense Only Star (also nullifies bumping)
-just rip off SART (well timed boost lets you evade item)
How about Risk/Reward Trick System? Instead of just pressing a button while in the air, let players execute a greater variety of stunts using a more complex series of inputs that if done incorrectly (including poor timing) could lead to "Stunt Failure" = a loss of coins and/or an effect similar to being hit by an item?
How about being able to store 1/2 mushroom boosts built from drifting at a cost (coins) instead of using them right away?
How about a new or returning item? Boo (doesn't make you invisible but allows you to see the items everyone is holding through Gamepad. Not only this, you can "catch" items (similar to Glove of SART) as long as it is active, allowing you to build a Custom Crazy 8.
How about being able to toggle between the two or three nearest targets ahead with red shells?
These kinds of things plus tons (3 or 4 cups worth) of new complex tracks with mirror selectable during track voting, glitches eliminated, a 200cc, a more interesting VR system (reset the ratings), item rebalancing, being able to save an unlimited amount of Full Replays to your local storage and more finely edit them for uploading is what I'd like to see.
For me firehopping is definitely at the top of the list. It's not hard to do (like snaking wasn't hard to do in MKDS) but I still see it as a dirty exploit. I don't want to be forced to use it just because other people have the need to win at all costs. It doesn't seem like an intended mechanic and it impedes the joy I get from racing. Also the people using it look so.. desperate.
Is there way for them to fix 2 player splitscreen?
Not being able to see the end of certain turns or corners is terrible.
4-player splitscreen is beyond saving though.
Anyway, great suggestions in the OP, I completely agree with all of them. I would also like to add switching your racing set up in between online races or cups with friends, I for the life of me cannot understand why this wasn't in the game to begin with.
