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[Westbahnhof]

If it's truly voluntary, sure.
If it's "you are free to go somewhere else" voluntary, then I'd go somewhere else, 4 out of 4 weeks.
I know for a fact I have the same contract that all male and female employees here have, and I won't be punished for society being unfair.
Good old two wrongs don't make a right.

The seating thing is also weird to me.

 

[Audioboxer]

I get that, but the owner is saying pay the fee or go somewhere else, which means it's not voluntary.

Some anti-discrimination lawyer is going to have a field day with this place.

If it's voluntary, probably not. You can write whatever you want on a sign, to an extent. You can ask for whatever donations you want in store, to an extent.

I would ask the cafe to go and research how many other cafes in Australia pay different wages for the same job between their employees, as that is illegal. As always it's an earnings gap, not a wage gap, and being simplistic about it like this sign is, is what causes a shitstorm.

People working in retail, customer service, supermarkets and all of the other low to average skilled labour which makes up the majority of the working force aren't what cause this (hourly salaries are equal, find me one job advertisement which says different pay for male/female for working in a restaurant/cafe/Gamestop), so it's always flawed acting like they do. It's management, CEOs, and salary averages which largely contribute towards the earnings gap. Especially if it's just grouping together all of the factors such as maternity leave, sick days, overtime, etc. Not to mention just averaging out roles and job types males/females might split between (nursing vs electrical engineering). What do you think will pay more? Social care is unfortunately often pretty terrible pay, but more females tend to end up in it than males. What is illegal would be to pay a male nurse in the same company doing the same job 18% more than a female nurse.

In order to talk honestly about this and yes, make changes where they can be made (a big one being encouraging more women with opportunities in higher paid career paths ~ Silicon Valley/Tech for one, have fun seeing it's male to female ratio with all those guys on stupid high salaries), some of the incredibly ill-educated takes on this across the internet, real life and by activists need to stop spreading confusing information for everyday people.

 

[Amory]

*shrug*

I just wouldn't go there. Place will ultimately fail by telling half the population they're unwelcome.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Some guys are sure to have a shitfit, but good on 'em. Happy to see this highlighted any time.

Fuck me, like the people responsible for the wage gap are even going to be drinking there. The gender wage gap sucks, but things like this, though well intentioned, seem to be missing the point of equality. Why don't we charge wealthy people more for their coffees to highlight the class inequality. I've certainly met hundreds of women who grew up with more privilege than I've ever known; I went to school with them, I went to University with them, I've dated them, I've worked with them, and I've had those selfsame people and others try to make me feel as though I'm part of the problem because of people boiling down inequality to easy talking points like this.

Leftism has been hijacked by a cabal of champagne socialists.

Then don't go? Since you seem so personally affronted by all those privileged women in your life, feel free to do something else to highlight issues you deem important. Or do you only care enough to post about not liking someone else's efforts?

 

[shnurgleton]

This won't backfire at all

 

[cryptosporidium]

sounds like an excellent place to pick up chicks, with a higher % ratio of attendance, this could be a gold mine

ha

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I see no problem with this

Priority seating for women will cause lots of practical issues though, as they will learn eventually

 

[Tadaima]

I don't get the "priority seating" rule. Is that something to do with men being favoured over women for jobs or something? I can see how the price hike correlates, but that rule doesn't seem to make any sense. Sounds a bit antisocial actually.

 

[Count Dookkake]

sounds like an excellent place to pick up chicks, with a higher % ratio of attendance, this could be a gold mine

And you don't even have to pay the extra, as it is a donation.

Pretty sweet deal.

 

[Litan]

*shrug*

I just wouldn't go there. Place will ultimately fail by telling half the population they're unwelcome.

The only part of half of that population that would be that way are dudes like you.

 

[YaGaMi]

If it's voluntary thats fine. If not people should not bother going there IMO.

 

[cryptosporidium]

Regarding OP - But haven't plenty of studies shown that there isn't a gender pay gap when you take into account length of service, type of job and hours worked?

Is that not a thing?

There still is i believe when they compare it job to job etc, though its much lower at around 3 or 4%. I believe it reflects the tendencies that men are more aggressive in asking for raises as well as women being shot down when they ask.

 

[Plum]

I can never get behind this kind of activism. Whether the price increase be voluntary or not (the priority seating still isn't) I don't think this is a good way at all of making more people aware of, and willing to help, the issue they're fighting for. The truth of the matter is that a lot of people simply don't have enough time or energy to care about the wage gap even if they'd support it when given the chance; attaching that cause's name to something that makes a lot of those people feel unwelcome will only further push said people into not caring or, worse, actively going against the cause.

Now don't get me wrong, it's a great tactic in terms of getting more donations for the charity but in terms of raising awareness and helping fight the gender pay gap it's far from great.

 

[Battlezone]

*shrug*

I just wouldn't go there. Place will ultimately fail by telling half the population they're unwelcome.

I mean, sure, plenty of businesses have failed by telling half the population the work they do is worth less than the other.

Better way to do this would be to just charge guys more without saying anything about it, then when they find out, tell them they're just being emotional and that they should learn to negotiate better.

 

[RoaringMdog]

The seating thing seems so weird to me. Why would anyone get priority seating? Are we not all equals? ._.

 

[Sephiroth503]

"They are welcome to go elsewhere if they don't want to pay a voluntary donation"

I wonder has that been tested by anyone yet. Seems well intended but pretty sure they cannot charge people differently for the same service based on their sex.

 

[paragonpro]

Not somewhere i would go (why would i go to a place ill he charged more for?) but i still think its a nice idea in terms of giving men some perspective on gender equality issues

Its just becoming more openly 'us vs them' with both sides wondering why each is pushing back harder than ever.

I agree, but unfortunatley what choice do we have
When both sides are so violently opposed to the others ideas and morals? Trust me when me and my dad talk politics it routinely becomes very liberal vs conservative and in the end we just end up yelling at eachother. This election nearly killed our relationship

 

[perfectchaos007]

"They are welcome to go elsewhere if they don't want to pay a voluntary donation"

I wonder has that been tested by anyone yet. Seems well intended but pretty sure they cannot charge people differently for the same service based on their sex.

In the US sexual discrimination like this is outlawed but maybe its legal in Australia?

 

[Unbounded]

I hope they also adjust for race if they're using that data.

 

[ebullientprism]

What to do when you cant afford to spend money on advertisement 101.

 

[benicillin]

They got people talking about their cafe and raised awareness of pay disparities, so mission accomplished as far as that's concerned.

I'm sure a lot of people on the Internet are going to be upset about it though, as they always so predictably are.

 

[The Elite]

The only part of half of that population that would be that way are dudes like you.

I recognise that the wage gap exists but I wouldn't go there simply because I choose not to pay an extra 18%. It's just bad economics when I can go somewhere else that isn't doing that.

I don't think it necessarily has to be any ulterior motive for choosing not to go there. It's basic math.

They may end up making their money on women choosing to go there because of so few men being there. That could work out for them.

 

[psyfi]

I work as a nanny and I charge white hetero families more than I do single parents, families of color, queer parents, etc. I've always thought of it as a solidarity discount, but I guess the flipside of that is charging privileged people more. Which I'm cool with.

 

[mcrommert]

I work as a nanny and I charge white hetero families more than I do single parents, families of color, queer parents, etc. I've always thought of it as a solidarity discount, but I guess the flipside of that is charging privileged people more. Which I'm cool with.

...

 

[Just_myles]

hahaha nice.

 

[Plum]

I work as a nanny and I charge white hetero families more than I do single parents, families of color, queer parents, etc. I've always thought of it as a solidarity discount, but I guess the flipside of that is charging privileged people more. Which I'm cool with.

I don't know what country you're in but I'm pretty sure what you're doing is literally illegal.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Isn't gender a protected class in Australia?

 

[Westbahnhof]

I work as a nanny and I charge white hetero families more than I do single parents, families of color, queer parents, etc. I've always thought of it as a solidarity discount, but I guess the flipside of that is charging privileged people more. Which I'm cool with.

Are you seriously just basing it on that while ignoring wealth, which should be obvious from different houses, neighborhoods and so on?
Or is that not a factor, maybe because it's all the same general location?

 

[psyfi]

I take wealth into account too.

 

[QuantumBro]

If it's voluntary, probably not. You can write whatever you want on a sign, to an extent. You can ask for whatever donations you want in store, to an extent.

I mean it depends how they go about that fee, if they add it on without telling them and then put up a fight about removing it, there's probably a discrimination case there. Same if they ask men to get out of their seats during a busy period.

All a lawyer needs to do is hire some actors to film themselves buying coffee and sitting down in order to catch an employee saying or doing the wrong thing and then they can get sued for discrimination. And even if the cafe wins the case, the legal fees won't be cheap.

Would've been better just to give an X% of profits to a woman's charity.

In the US sexual discrimination like this is outlawed but maybe its legal in Australia?

I'm basing everything off of this which makes it seem like Australia anti discrimination laws are stronger than the ones in the US.

 

[Westbahnhof]

I take wealth into account too.

Better I think, but still weird to me. Plus, illegal I guess.

 

[Wvrs]

Then don't go? Since you seem so personally affronted by all those privileged women in your life, feel free to do something else to highlight issues you deem important. Or do you only care enough to post about not liking someone else's efforts?

As I said, the intention is well-meaning. But, whatever you call it: liberalism, leftism, progressiveness; ever since the neoliberal shift a few decades back, these words have been completely repurposed to benefit the free markets and hyper-capitalism that leftist movements used to oppose. If everyone's so outraged about issues like this (which, let's be honest, only affect the middle classes in white-collar new economy jobs -- a woman whose parents are even slightly wealthy will have a much easier time in life than the son of parents who work in unskilled, minimum wage jobs), then it's detracting attention from the actual malaises at the heart of society. Furthermore, it's weakening the voices of those at the bottom, because even people who have known privilege are claiming to 'fight the good fight'.

Meanwhile, tens of millions of men and women both are being completely left out to dry by stagnating wages, poor education, lack of social mobility, cuts to labour markets which traditionally would have been their backbone, the pejoration of workers' unions, the weakening of workers' rights. And all these politicians who claim to be 'progressive' are really just limiting the scope of free debate to single-issues like this, because that's the easiest way to secure their interests -- namely, unchecked globalisation and the concentration of wealth into fewer and fewer hands. The socialists who came out of WWII dreaming of a better world would be ashamed.

 

[AoM]

In the US sexual discrimination like this is outlawed but maybe its legal in Australia?

Assuming it's illegal there as well, I'm guessing that whenever someone does refuse, they'll just let it go, knowing they'd have a hard time pressing it.

 

[JeffG]

I don't know what country you're in but I'm pretty sure what you're doing is literally illegal.

lol

 

[HellforLeather]

I work as a nanny and I charge white hetero families more than I do single parents, families of color, queer parents, etc. I've always thought of it as a solidarity discount, but I guess the flipside of that is charging privileged people more. Which I'm cool with.

BTW, thats pretty fucking illegal.

 

[benicillin]

"Um, I'm pretty sure that is illegal!" says random Internet person, despite having no idea of the legality of the thing in question.

 

[RMI]

This whole idea breaks down for me at the point where this 18% markup eats into household income that is supporting both a man and a woman.

I don't know what country you're in but I'm pretty sure what you're doing is literally illegal.

A nanny can charge whatever they want to whoever they want I'm pretty sure.

 

[Sparkedglory]

Well if it's voluntary and with the proceeds being donated, I really don't have a problem.

 

[Psychoward]

A bar in New York had a similar concept on some occasions but instead women had a discount

There's no real world difference though between one gender getting a discount and another gender having to pay more.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I mean, they'll sure draw attention to this like they want

pretty much

the MRA tears alone will be worth it

"Um, I'm pretty sure that is illegal!" says random Internet person, despite having no idea of the legality of the thing in question.

Lol, so true

and no its not illegal, internet lawyer wannabes

you can charge anyone whatever the fuck you want depending on the business.. its wage discrimination that is the problem

 

[Flynn77]

Why don't they just pay their women employees equally and put up a sign reflecting that.

 

[norm9]

"Voluntary" "donation." Right.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Because this will certainly fight gender wage gap, right? Right?

 

[Amory]

The only part of half of that population that would be that way are dudes like you.

ok?

to me, that sign pretty much says "men, stay away". And I think ultimately most will. If they can run their business with cash coming in almost exclusively from women, good for them

 

[RMI]

There's no real world difference though between one gender getting a discount and another gender having to pay more.

there certainly is. in one case the burden is shouldered by the business and in the other it's shouldered by some of the customers.

 

[HellforLeather]

"Um, I'm pretty sure that is illegal!" says random Internet person, despite having no idea of the legality of the thing in question.

Most western countries have laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation/race etc. The problem is, Im assuming that this person doesnt advertised that shes screwing over people based on these factors so how would you prove it?

The lack of self awareness is staggering though.

 

[QuantumBro]

Why don't they just pay their women employees equally and put up a sign reflecting that.

There's nothing special about doing what 99% of retail establishments are already doing.

 

[black_13]

I find it ironic since most waiters are female and don't male waiters usually get less tips?

And why are so many hard labor jobs all done by men? Is there anything stopping from women doing those jobs or do they just not prefer to do those? The whole gender wage gap seems ridiculous to me since they are comparing average wages of whole genders instead of looking at wages of male and female doing the same jobs.

 

[Audioboxer]

I mean it depends how they go about that fee, if they add it on without telling them and then put up a fight about removing it, there's probably a discrimination case there. Same if they ask men to get out of their seats during a busy period.

All a lawyer needs to do is hire some actors to film themselves buying coffee and sitting down in order to catch an employee saying or doing the wrong thing and then they can get sued for discrimination. And even if the cafe wins the case, the legal fees won't be cheap.

Would've been better just to give an X% of profits to a woman's charity.



I'm basing everything off of this which makes it seem like Australia anti discrimination laws are stronger than the ones in the US.

I'm pretty sure it won't be anything that calculated. It's just a cafe making a political statement and getting some free publicity while attempting to raise money. If they even had a whiff of legal trouble they'd fold in an instant. I'm also certain if they verbally lambaste anyone saying they don't want to pay 18% more that'll be a rather bad PR move, not of a legal concern.

Why don't they just pay their women employees equally and put up a sign reflecting that.

Because you already legally have to do that, so it wouldn't be stating anything new. See my post above about earnings differences. These kinds of conversations don't even revolve around minimum wage paying catering/retail/service industry roles which pay the same salary for the same job no matter your genitals. They have to or it's a discrimination case/lawsuit in the making.

 

[ZackieChan]

It's "voluntary" like tipping is "voluntary." Isn't that one of the reasons most of Neogaf goes ballistic about tipping?