Laevateinn
Member
I'm definitely never getting coffee there!
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New café in Melbourne charging men 18% more to highlight gender wage gap
- Thread starter Vanillalite
- Start date
I'm definitely never getting coffee there!
JoJoShabadoo
Member
This is a misguided idea that won't change a thing.
perfectchaos007
Member
Good point. Black men should only be charged an additional 10% while white men should be charged closer to 30%.
Mohonky
Member
Of course its illegal.
In the same way as a business may refuse entry or service to anyone they please so long as that refusal isnt on the basis of race, sex, religion etc.
You can charge whatever you want to do, but if they find your basis of service cost is selected based on race, sex etc it most certainly is illegal.
Unless you live in a third world shithole without equality laws of course.
Those asking if its illegal in Australia; very much so.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I understand there's a gender wage gap, and I agree with raising awareness and working on solutions to close that gap. I feel that this probably isn't the right approach however. When people start bringing their own personal crusades into their place of business and forcing it into thier customers it actually creates segregation and division instead of community and solidarity. Do we really want separate coffee shops for people for and against this cause? And do we really want this idea to spread to other businesses and other causes?
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
How about we create different menus for people with different colors and genders? I'm so revolutionary.
Try harder.
The ONS in the UK compares like for like, and there is still a significant pay gap between the genders here. Australia uses a similar model to come up with their pay gap stats.
I love how pissy people are getting here. The "omg I'm not paid more than the women so why am I being charged more" nonsense is hilarious and frankly sad.
I earn slightly less than the median wage in the UK and would gladly pay more if a cafe done the same here. The support for the status quo is implicitly supporting inequality and moaning about stuff like this shows how utterly hypocritical people can be. On one hand downplaying the pay gap, the glass ceiling etc, then wailing that they're the ones hard done by when the effects of these things are pointed out to them.
Nester99
Member
You seem pretty proud about discriminating based on race and sexual orientation. Good luck with that.
shadowsdarknes
Member
I suppose this will get the attention they want. I can't say I'd voluntarily donate to pay an additional 18%.
I admit I have no idea. Though if someone advertised such a price difference (i.e. "Men pay $6/hr Women pay $5/hr) I doubt they'd be allowed to do so for long. Even if it's completely legal it's not right in any way shape or form.
Being Australia, Aboriginals should be paid to eat there
I'm not sure actually.
Westbahnhof
Banned
Why? I'm paid the same as the women at my work, and it's not much. I'm working part-time at minimum wage(or I did, obviously it increased a bit, being there for years now. The usual adjustments everyone gets).
Why is it sad that under these circumstances, I don't want to pay more than others because of my sex?
perfectchaos007
Member
Gender discrimination is gender discrimination no matter which one is discriminated. Same for race.
If this was a male cafe with a motto "For men, by men" and "Women will be charged and additional 18% to eat here." would that still be legal?
Astral Dog
Member
Its a nice gesture but ultimately very little (understandably) if you make it optional once a week
Schucky Ducky
Banned
Might even be better than Target!
if they don't want to pay voluntary doesn't sound voluntary lol
if it truly is voluntary and acts as a donation.....that's really not a big deal and kind of cool
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Are people getting "pissy" though? I just see a discussion taking place.
That's not how it works.
Base salary is usually equal. The inequality comes later.
Women are statistically less likely to get pay settlements over time at the same rate as men. As salary increases outside of collective bargaining is notoriously secretive, it's very hard for people to keep track of their personal earnings compared to their peers.
On a macro level though it is tracked pretty well and the differences are stark. In industries with the process of annual pay reviews, women lose out heavily. The gap cannot be realistically be just because men somehow perform better but more that the systems of performance appraisal has been skewed towards assertion of value to the companies. This has resulted in women being paid less over a career than a man in a comparative position.
No company will ever advertise a job where they pay a women less than a man, but that only tells part of the story. Once recruited, staff salaries are completely unregulated when it comes to how people are treated. This is where the pay gap comes from.
Good point. They should really give a discount to Aboriginals. They are treated like shite in Oz.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Voluntary donations? Burn it down..
Good info but I'm talking about someone deliberately charging someone more for the same service based solely on gender, race and sexuality. I wasn't talking about the worker's pay.
Mohonky
Member
Did you read the ONS report? Because it quite clearly states why that gap exists, which as has been mentioned, is the 'adjusted' wage gap.
Because a gap exists does not mean it is not in actuality because of discriminatory reasons; it exists because of differences in sex from a societal and career perspectives. When adnusted the gap is much smaller and may be atttibuted to differences in job and study preferences.
Why men and women may gravitate toward different career paths maybe a topic worth discussing, but there is no secret 'men get paid more because penis bias'.
The Wraith
Member
I get that they're trying to get a message across, but it's not the best way of doing it. Like was said earlier in the thread give women an 18% discount. This also being a forced "voluntary" donation is a joke.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Honestly this reads like something that would be on a british sketch show. Say, a man goes into a coffeeshop, gets a coffee for a set price, and the cashier says "Ok that'll be X... plus an 18% charge for being a man" *laugh track*
Customer: I'm sorry what?
Customer: I'm sorry what?
Because this is a statement about society as a whole, not just you.
Fucking hell. You don't get a discount because you earn less than the median wage, either. It's s political statement, and if your response is "well I'm not paid more" then you miss the point.
That's fucked up.
you are such a robin hood
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Westbahnhof
Banned
It's a statement about society as a whole until you receive the bill, then it's just a person asked to pay more.
"It's a political statement about society being unjust, so pay up."? You can't ignore the individual.
And yes, you don't get a discount because you make less money. Just like you don't pay more because you're wealthy.
Everyone pays the same. That's the point.
No adjustments.
Edit:
I get the concept, and like I said, a truly voluntary donation is fine.
But if it's a "just go elsewhere if you don't like it" situation, I'm opposed to it.
Actually, the ONS reports are pretty clear, the older you get, the bigger the age gap for comparable positions.
This is only explained by men being rewarded for experience at a higher rate than women. A 50 year old woman is not innately worth less than a 50 year old man in the same position but the pay gap at that age is massive. However, the pay gap at 30 is near 0. There's multiple reasons for this but there is an inherent advantage to having a penis over time.
Gotdatmoney
Member
😐
That's the point though. As a whole, adjusted for the pay gap, you are paying the same based on overall earnings in society.
You don't like it? Fix the pay gap.
Apeopleman
Member
Underrated comment
Ban Puncher
Member
How much if I am an emu?
Do I get a veterans discount too?
Do I get a veterans discount too?
JoJoShabadoo
Member
As per the article, it goes to "women's charities"
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
It's not, but it was a simple example. You don't fight what's wrong by doing another thing that's wrong. There's a clear division of services between people based on their gender and race by what that user said.
And yeah, it's stupid.
HighResTomato
Member
Are white women asked to pay more than women of other backgrounds?
Westbahnhof
Banned
At the end of the day, it's less money in my pocket after being there, and as someone with very little money, I find the idea of financing a political statement this way irksome.
So if retail worker A is angry about having to pay almost 1/5 more, he should just go home and fix it he pay gap?
I get the concept.
I just don't like an execution where objectively innocent people get the short end of the stick, for publicity.
themaskedndi
Member
No. Female servers are held to higher standards than male servers are. Men and women earn comparable tips when they deliver excellent service, but women are more likely to be penalized for mistakes. Tips for female servers are also linked directly to their perceived level of attractiveness. Men get the same tips regardless of how attractive they are.
tearsintherain
Member
I'm going to open a cafe in australia and charge 20% less for ugly people and 20% more for good looking people. Its time we ugly people banded together!!
also if you say you are from neogaf its 50% extra.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I agree
By this logic female haircuts being more expensive than male haircuts is also segregation. I would avoid using that word for stuff like this. When you use segregation you're drawing parallels to white only fountains and people getting killed for looking at a white women.
It's poor language use at best.
Can't argue that. You're not balancing the weight of the world charging white people more, you're just being shitty.
Earthstrike
Member
Many studies have shown the gap shrinks. It doesn't reach 100%. I think the highest mark one gets to is 93%. A lot of people look at that number and say "Well, it feels close to 100 so I guess there's no gap", whereas applying the reals, i.e. the branch of mathematics known as statistics, yields that in fact, a gap exists when you make direct comparisons.
This is also something you really only need to do when you bypass some of the more philosophical and intelligent ways to analyze the situation. For instance, the gender wage gap, using the same "flawed" methodology would yield much lower numbers the farther back you go in time. You could just as easily say a lot of the arguments people make today back then.
"Men and women are born differently, they choose to be homemakers!"
The fact is, things like racism and sexism don't get stamped out in one or two generations. Much like religion, a significant portion of people believe what there parents tell them, and that's it.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
You're right and I apologize for that. I know what it truly means but it was a poor choice of words.