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New café in Melbourne charging men 18% more to highlight gender wage gap

B

BriGuy

Member
It's their business, and since this seems voluntary for the most part, they're free to do what they will. I wouldn't patronize them though. I don't really care what their message is, I'm just so embroiled in politics every which way I go already. I welcome the brief respite of a meal or simple cup of coffee. Take that away and I'm just going to become more of a depressed lump of angry, bitter humanity like everybody else I know.
 
S

Snarky(HEART)

Banned
Westbahnhof said:
Why? I'm paid the same as the women at my work, and it's not much. I'm working part-time at minimum wage(or I did, obviously it increased a bit, being there for years now. The usual adjustments everyone gets).
Why is it sad that under these circumstances, I don't want to pay more than others because of my sex?
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Good thing you don't have to, because it's voluntary
 
W

Westbahnhof

Banned
Snarky(HEART) said:
Good thing you don't have to, because it's voluntary
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If that's the case, it's all good and I'd pay them a visit and donate if I can.
To me, the statement "They are welcome to go elsewhere if they don't want to pay a voluntary donation." makes it sound like it's not really voluntary, which would be the aspect I dislike.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Mohonky said:
Did you read the ONS report? Because it quite clearly states why that gap exists, which as has been mentioned, is the 'adjusted' wage gap.

Because a gap exists does not mean it is not in actuality because of discriminatory reasons; it exists because of differences in sex from a societal and career perspectives. When adnusted the gap is much smaller and may be atttibuted to differences in job and study preferences.

Why men and women may gravitate toward different career paths maybe a topic worth discussing, but there is no secret 'men get paid more because penis bias'.
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Thankyou.gif.

Now maybe we can spend more time focussing on high paid industries that are hostile to women for genuinely sexist reasons (Hi Silicon Valley). Or try and encourage more women from younger ages that it's fine to head into the hard sciences, such as physics, engineering and others and not feel like they're jobs for men. While also keeping conversations open about structures in top end management/CEO positions when it comes to suitability/negotiations, and also not treating maternity leave like it's some bogeyman (looking at you America).

While working on all these things, we can also accept that when dealing with massive laws of averages, it's okay if some industries never reach 50:50 parity. You do not see much hullabaloo wanting millions more male nurses and elderly carers.... Just like there should never be some insane societal pressure to demand women head off to building sites and to be tree surgeons in far greater numbers. It's okay for men and women to somewhat follow general tropes/stereotypes, as long as those that do not want to get the support and equal treatment they deserve to strive to work in whatever sector/industry they want. Sometimes following said stereotypical paths in decent numbers will contribute towards the average earnings gaps being manipulated. That is okay. People are largely supposed to be happy in their work, and doing something they enjoy, somewhat before it being heresy someone takes a lower paid career path because there are other career paths that pay more.
 
N

Nickle

Cool Facts: Game of War has been a hit since July 2013
It's nice that they put the billboard outside of the building, you can read it and decide to go somewhere else. It's not like there's a lack of cafes in Melbourne.
 
H

H.Protagonist

[-_-]/
Wolvers said:
As I said, the intention is well-meaning. But, whatever you call it: liberalism, leftism, progressiveness; ever since the neoliberal shift a few decades back, these words have been completely repurposed to benefit the free markets and hyper-capitalism that leftist movements used to oppose. If everyone's so outraged about issues like this (which, let's be honest, only affect the middle classes in white-collar new economy jobs -- a woman whose parents are even slightly wealthy will have a much easier time in life than the son of parents who work in unskilled, minimum wage jobs), then it's detracting attention from the actual malaises at the heart of society. Furthermore, it's weakening the voices of those at the bottom, because even people who have known privilege are claiming to 'fight the good fight'.

Meanwhile, tens of millions of men and women both are being completely left out to dry by stagnating wages, poor education, lack of social mobility, cuts to labour markets which traditionally would have been their backbone, the pejoration of workers' unions, the weakening of workers' rights. And all these politicians who claim to be 'progressive' are really just limiting the scope of free debate to single-issues like this, because that's the easiest way to secure their interests -- namely, unchecked globalisation and the concentration of wealth into fewer and fewer hands. The socialists who came out of WWII dreaming of a better world would be ashamed.
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I don't disagree with you that the issues aren't being tackled at the level or with the actual effort they deserve, but seeing no productive (enough) action being taken on a governmental or societal level, I'm happy for people to be reminded that these problems still exist. I don't think that they detract attention at all from the issues--quite the opposite. They remind us that they still exist even though politicians claim to make headway with ineffective policies that make people assume everything is completely kosher now.

As for your socialists post WWII, would they be more ashamed of people who did something, even if it's just ultimately highlighting an issue, or those who do nothing but post online about how x, y, or z doesn't perfectly solve sexism/racism/world hunger/etc. and is therefore worthless?
 
T

The Fatal Englishman

Member
Moose Biscuits said:
Wait, there are still non-Starbucks cafes? Do they not exist over in Australia?
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Melbourne is basically the coffee centre of the world. Nobody would be caught dead in a Starbucks here.

This place is one of thousands so good luck to them. There are places like this that pop up every so often (usually in a hipster suburb as this one is) and make a name for themselves with some gimmick before promptly going under because people abuse said gimmick or they go somewhere else. That, and the hipster crowd is fickle.
 
N

Nerazar

Member
ghostofsparta said:
The same way it works everywhere else, they ignore them
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Aaand we have a winner!

This being voluntary is nice and all, but that 18% gender wage gap is a myth. Progressives should not stick to lies based on statistical tricks to make people aware of problems. So even if there is an issue with wage discrepancy (and there are a lot of workplace related issues), we should focus on the things which are factual or else we're the alt-left. If you look at the correct numbers, the pay-gap is around 3% which is well within any margin of error and/or the fact that everyone has to negotiate their own wages at some point.

And we should of course look at other factors and other wage-gaps as well. The one which is being propagated is not the only one and probably not even the worst one.
 
Nester99

Nester99

Member
I don't think they understand what voluntary means.


If they refuse service i.e. "they can go elsewhere" it's not voluntary at all.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
This is dumb. Not only because it's misguided, but it feels hostile. As a man I wouldn't really want to give them my business.
 
M

Mr_Moogle

Member
I'd probably be cool with this if food wasn't already so expensive in Australia. They aren't going to win anybody over with this strategy.
 
F

FUME5

Member
YesNOnoNOYes said:
Is pretty yummo... ��

Sent our intern to get some of us at the back office some coffees just now and their flat white is nice :)

Long waits, though. Seems like loads of people going there at the moment.
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I wonder what the percentage of straight white dudes was.
 
M

Mik2121

Member
Personally it feels like the wrong way to go at it and phrase what they want to do. Making the men's price the standard and giving a discount to women would work better psychologically, or just simply having some active donation system that even women could add to. The seating part seems weird and somewhat entitled. Give priority to the elder, pregnant women and handicapped people, not just... women in general. As it is, it reads fairly hostile and personally not a place I'd like to go.

The again, this will definitely attract way more comments and garner popularity, which is obviously what they want (I mean, they are a business, not an NGO). I just hope they don't get popular because of this and when it's gone from social networks nobody goes again.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
What about for unemployed men? I don't know what kind of system Australia has in place for unemployed people and if their government gives them money for rent, but supposedly the amount would be the same for both men and women.
 
G

Grassy

Member
Moose Biscuits said:
Wait, there are still non-Starbucks cafes? Do they not exist over in Australia?
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There's only ~30 Starbucks cafes here in Australia across Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne. I think the largest coffee franchise here is Gloria Jean's with over 400 stores, although they're mostly in busy shopping centres. At least where I live people prefer the beachside family-friendly cafes where they can take their kids and let them run around or whatever. They have a much more friendlier and laid-back atmosphere.

There's so many successful smaller cafes here, it's crazy. We love our coffee.
 
P

Persona7

Banned
A shop near my college tried something like this but they had to scrap it because people were ordering drinks and food and then walking out.
 
Y

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
FUME5 said:
I wonder what the percentage of straight white dudes was.
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:thinking emoji:

Grassy said:
There's only ~30 Starbucks cafes here in Australia across Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne. I think the largest coffee franchise here is Gloria Jean's with over 400 stores, although they're mostly in busy shopping centres. At least where I live people prefer the beachside family-friendly cafes where they can take their kids and let them run around or whatever. They have a much more friendlier and laid-back atmosphere.

There's so many successful smaller cafes here, it's crazy. We love our coffee.
Click to expand...

We do! Our cafe scene is pretty amazing! Sydney Rd in Brunswick is a very hip place for it, too.

Hudson coffees are still around too though, but yes, Starbucks aren't doing so hot here. I prefer the owner operated cafes anyway, tbh.
 
N

Nephtis

Member
Their message (once explained) is noble, but the message is completely lost with that billboard. The condescension is incredible. I'm all for supporting gender pay equality in the workforce (and I have!), but the way these people go on about it just rubs me the wrong way in every way possible.

Seating priority to women? I mean, uh... Really? the 18% "gender tax" is also insane, but not anywhere near as crazy as the seating thing. People are probably going there in droves because they're curious about all the controversy this is causing, not because they particularly support their message.

Mission accomplished, I guess.
 
H

h1nch

Member
I support equal pay for both genders.

I would not be ok with giving my business to this establishment. Something about the way that sign was written rubs me the wrong way.
 
C

Conciliator

Banned
"hey girl, you come her often? I love goin to this bar and paying extra cuz like men are so fucked up, fuck the patriarchy, right? That's what I'm all about. Get out of the way men, time for women to slay! Right? Hey, how bout a beej?"
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
I'd say they should do as they please and let the market decide. They barely even try, though, this just comes across as a PR move. I probably wouldnt get my coffee there, because I do care about my money. Unless it's really good, in which case I would begrudgingly get my coffee there
 
S

SkeptiMism

Member
BLAUcopter said:
Yeah but who cares about facts anymore?
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Swig_ said:
It's amazing how many people still believe this old wives tale..
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Ah yes the pay gap is just an old wives tale.

If you have studies to link then do so, please. Not meaning to be hostile, but otherwise for now it seems a little bit like like you're ignoring all the replies to the person BLAUcopter quoted there just because they didn't support your agenda. Like, most of those replies weren't far from that post.
 
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