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[Shaneus]

You might be surprised. The Analogue NT is a new NES clone, it costs $500, or $580 with HDMI kit. Thousands of people ordered them, and once they actually started shipping the things (there were delays, communication problems), people are loving them (despite a few unexpected issues) and saying they are well worth the money. All it does is play NES cartridges, but at very high video quality, and thousands of people bought into that for $500+.

Note that (as far as I understand from early interviews) the same guy who designed the HDMI video output of the Analogue NT, designed at least some of the FPGA cores in the Retro VGS including the NES core.

I had no idea that existed, but that looks amazing. I'm glad something like that is proven to work, must've had some influence in the creation/development of the Retro.

 

[mrpeabody]

$200 console with no games? TAKE MY MONEY IM SHOVING IT INTO MY SCREEN

$400 console with no games? HIGHWAY ROBBERY CLASS ACTION DEATH TO THE INFIDELS

 

[Gruso]

Great posts Mike. I've gone from sympathetic observer to just-might-be-a-backer.

Aussie dollar will make it hurt though.

 

[coughlanio]

It doesn't play existing cartridges guys, they're using a proprietary connector, and the system doesn't contain any FPGA cores, so even if you could find a way to plug in the game, the system requires the cores to be on the cartridge.

 

[Bar81]

So the awesome new feature is that it's also an (8bit) emu box? Unless each "core" is actual chipsets from the respective system it's emulation - let's not put lipstick on a pig and declare it Miss America. Plus with all the alleged power it's embarrassing that there's no 16bit emu.

It doesn't play existing cartridges guys, they're using a proprietary connector, and the system doesn't contain any FPGA cores, so even if you could find a way to plug in the game, the system requires the cores to be on the cartridge.

This isn't consistent with the above - it's emulation, the only thing required is electrical cartridge adapters at what is likely to be a hefty price if the retrode is anything to go by - by the time they're done its now basically a $600+ system if you want the whole suite of 8bit and (if they figure it out) 16bit emulation. Crazy.

 

[Shaneus]

It doesn't play existing cartridges guys, they're using a proprietary connector, and the system doesn't contain any FPGA cores, so even if you could find a way to plug in the game, the system requires the cores to be on the cartridge.

You read his post, yeah?

As far as whether or not we are leaving the FPGA inside RVGS. The answer is YES. Removing this part of our hardware will significantly reduce the value and capability of this machine. We have yet to announce, but will have a variety of inexpensive cartridge adapters that will allow you to play your original games (and using your original classic gaming controllers) from your collections in RVGS using only the highest quality, read that lots of GOLD, cartridge connectors made here in Southern California. You won't have to worry about sticking in your prized copy of Air Raid into the RVGS cartridge slot. AND RVGS will be a great system to play all the existing newer and upcoming homebrew titles for Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision and NES (possible 16-bit consoles in the future, however, no reliable cores for these have been made yet). This is all a by-product of having an FPGA enabled system.

 

[stan423321]

It doesn't play existing cartridges guys, they're using a proprietary connector, and the system doesn't contain any FPGA cores, so even if you could find a way to plug in the game, the system requires the cores to be on the cartridge.

Not necessarily on THAT cartridge though. LOCK-ON TECHNOLOGY.

Well, excuse me.

 

[Freshmaker]

Well said. I think that description has helped me kinda think about this thing in moreso the right way. I'm still not 100% sold on everything, but I am excited to see more.

Again, much appreciated that you're taking the time to address all these concerns as they pop up.

So... Uh, does it have a hundred cart slots, or does that one provided by the super cost saving Jaguar shell does magically do it all?

You read his post, yeah?

His post never says you can directly plug a cart in. He just says it can play a bunch of old games without specifying how. A lot of three card monty in that post.

 

[coughlanio]

So the awesome new feature is that it's also an (8bit) emu box? Unless each "core" is actual chipsets from the respective system it's emulation - let's not put lipstick on a pig and declare it Miss America. Plus with all the alleged power it's embarrassing that there's no 16bit emu.



This isn't consistent with the above - it's emulation, the only thing required is electrical cartridge adapters at what is likely to be a hefty price if the retrode is anything to go by - by the time they're done its now basically a $600+ system if you want the whole suite of 8bit and (if they figure it out) 16bit emulation. Crazy.

It's not emulation, it's FPGA technology which is a hardware reimplementation. I didnt actually catch the latest post, but it seems like there's going to be cartridge adapters that include the FPGA core for the related system, that sits between your existing cartridge and the RETRO VGS.

 

[Gruso]

So... Uh, does it have a hundred cart slots, or does that one provided by the super cost saving Jaguar shell does magically do it all?

His post never says you can directly plug a cart in. He just says it can play a bunch of old games without specifying how. A lot of three card monty in that post.

He says it explicitly.

We have yet to announce, but will have a variety of inexpensive cartridge adapters that will allow you to play your original games

 

[Bar81]

It's not emulation, it's FPGA technology which is a hardware reimplementation. I didnt actually catch the latest post, but it seems like there's going to be cartridge adapters that include the FPGA core for the related system, that sits between your existing cartridge and the RETRO VGS.

It's still emulation (software versus hardware emulation) and if that's how they were going to do it (and they'd be crazy to do it that way) then the cost of each add-on would be $50+. There is no need in any case since the FPGA is already included and can be reprogrammed to emulate the various system chips.

 

[dancrane212]

Maybe the cart adapters, especially with the high quality angle, will give this more of a fighting chance on Kickstarter. Still very curious to see how everything pans out.

They should allow for usb bluetooth support so the SNES30 will work on the VGS. Been using the controller on the Retron5 and it's perfect.

 

[Bar81]

Maybe the cart adapters, especially with the high quality angle, will give this more of a fighting chance on Kickstarter.

Not sure how making the system even more expensive is supposed to help.

 

[dancrane212]

Not sure how making the system even more expensive is supposed to help.

I'm comparing it's chances now to a couple days ago when the $300-$400 price was first talked about but without the ability to play old software. I feel pretty confident saying there was no chance this machine could have brought in $2.5-$3 million with such a high base price and a library of small scale games (that may or may not have longevity issues depending on what format they are eventually made on).

Having the ability to play older games is something that could help justify whatever price is set. Not saying it's a "slam dunk" or anything but the VGS will be in a much better situation with that feature on the Kickstarter page.

 

[Bar81]

I'm comparing it's chances now to a couple days ago when the $300-$400 price was first talked about but without the ability to play old software. I feel pretty confident saying there was no chance this machine could have brought in $2.5-$3 million with such a high base price and a library of small scale games (that may or may not have longevity issues depending on what format they are eventually made on).

Having the ability to play older games is something that could help justify whatever price is set. Not saying it's a "slam dunk" or anything but the VGS will be in a much better situation with that feature on the Kickstarter page.

Again, this isn't free. Every system you want to emulate requires a seperate add on that costs more money. If the problem is the price, increasing it seems to be a strange "solution". The problem is that the guys behind this don't see the price as an issue (or don't want to accept this) so they think that adding features while continuing to jack up the price is a great idea.

 

[coughlanio]

It's still emulation (software versus hardware emulation) and if that's how they were going to do it (and they'd be crazy to do it that way) then the cost of each add-on would be $50+. There is no need in any case since the FPGA is already included and can be reprogrammed to emulate the various system chips.

I meant emulation in the traditional sense with regards to ROMs and video games.

The system, as is, does not have any cores included. It's possible you could load cores via USB, but the current design has the cores on the cartridge itself. This is part of their "won't need to update" philosophy, and having the cores on the system will break that, as the cores will be constantly updated and improved, it makes more sense to have them on the cartridge.

 

[dancrane212]

Again, this isn't free. Every system you want to emulate requires a seperate add on that costs more money. If the problem is the price, increasing it seems to be a strange "solution". The problem is that the guys behind this don't see the price as an issue (or don't want to accept this) so they think that adding features while continuing to jack up the price is a great idea.

When did I say it wasn't? I was under the assumption that this feature was included in the $300-$400 figure since it comes from the FPGA chip-set. They talked about a "surprise" back when the price was dropped - just figured it was this.

 

[coughlanio]

When did I say it wasn't? I was under the assumption that this feature was included in the $300-$400 figure since it comes from the FPGA chip-set. They talked about a "surprise" back when the price was dropped - just figured it was this.

The FPGA is included, but the HDL cores are not. The current design has these packaged with the game on the cartridge.

 

[dancrane212]

The FPGA is included, but the HDL cores are not. The current design has these packaged with the game on the cartridge.

Right. I suppose the console can't actually get updated with new cores via a firmware update!

Would those converters significantly bring up the price? With my very little knowledge of FPGA I would figure the converter would just be a connector for the cartridge with some on-board storage that would hold the core (they are just software right?) for the console to read.

Personal preference would still be a machine that would start off with less functionality and a cheaper price point that would eventually get iterated on but having support for at least a couple other platforms doesn't makes me think it is as doomed as I did a couple days ago.

 

[stan423321]

Would those converters significantly bring up the price? With my very little knowledge of FPGA I would figure the converter would just be a connector for the cartridge with some on-board storage that would hold the core (they are just software right?) for the console to read.

Yeah, FPGA layouts are just regular data. However, depending on the machine in question, as well as RVGS cartridge protocol, adapter may be more complicated. Amongst mentioned systems, NES is a good example of all sorts of craziness going in the cartridge, you either can prepare the core and dumper for emulating a limited selection of cart types or enforce quite complex constant communication between FPGA and game.

And then there's the fact that RVGS team may want a premium cut on these adapters. Who knows, obviously.

 

[coughlanio]

Right. I suppose the console can't actually get updated with new cores via a firmware update!

Would those converters significantly bring up the price? With my very little knowledge of FPGA I would figure the converter would just be a connector for the cartridge with some on-board storage that would hold the core (they are just software right?) for the console to read.

Personal preference would still be a machine that would start off with less functionality and a cheaper price point that would eventually get iterated on but having support for at least a couple other platforms doesn't makes me think it is as doomed as I did a couple days ago.

That would be the idea. The cartridge converter would have a small ROM that includes the FPGA HDL core, that will then boot the ROM on the actual cartridge.

I'd imagine a $30-50 price on the converters, but for example, a NES converter could probably handle Famicom and NES if they bundle a slot adapter with the converter, so it might not be bad value if they go that route. The price on top of the price of the system is another matter though.

 

[GameGavel]

The adapters will be in the $20-$30 range. And yes, you guys have figured out how they are working. Think if our cartridges as sending a message to the FPGA chipset inside our console to reconfigure itself as one of those "legacy" consoles and to play a game like it is in that actual console. The brains are inside the carts and/or our legacy cart adapters and they tell the console what to do.

We are very cognizant of the pricing, and at this point the FPGA is only adding about $50-$60 to the overall selling price and at that difference we see no reason to leave it out. Other things we could do to lower the price are use a less capable processor, limit the # output options and remove the 9-Pin controller ports and stay only with USB. Oh, and make it in China. All things we've considered, but we really feel leaving all these options in and making it in the USA adds considerable value and needed quality to RVGS.

 

[stan423321]

The adapters will be in the $20-$30 range. And yes, you guys have figured out how they are working. Think if our cartridges as sending a message to the FPGA chipset inside our console to reconfigure itself as one of those "legacy" consoles and to play a game like it is in that actual console. The brains are inside the carts and/or our legacy cart adapters and they tell the console what to do.

For extra clarification, do you plan it so RVGS would communicate with the cartridge in real time in fashion mostly similar to the original system, as opposed to Retron 5 copying all data on start-up? If that's secret/undetermined, feel free to answer so.

 

[Dreamwriter]

No, it sounds like it would first load up the FPGA core, then copy the cartridge ROM over and run it on the RetroVGA. I know the NES core created by Kevtris includes every mapper chip that appeared on the carts, and NES is the worst system for that kinda thing, so it'd make sense they'd do that with all of the carts.

 

[Kawika]

You might be surprised. The Analogue NT is a new NES clone, it costs $500, or $580 with HDMI kit. Thousands of people ordered them, and once they actually started shipping the things (there were delays, communication problems), people are loving them (despite a few unexpected issues) and saying they are well worth the money. All it does is play NES cartridges, but at very high video quality, and thousands of people bought into that for $500+.

Note that (as far as I understand from early interviews) the same guy who designed the HDMI video output of the Analogue NT, designed at least some of the FPGA cores in the Retro VGS including the NES core.

Clone kind of sounds like a pejorative with regard to the Analogue NT.

From their site

"The Analogue Nt is designed around the heart and brain of the original NES. The Ricoh 20A3 and Ricoh 2C02 - the identical CPU and PPU used in the original. Unlike the knock off and emulation systems that riddle the market today, the Analogue Nt is the only NES on the market that is built with original hardware. This means you’ll be experiencing the NES with the hardware it was designed to be played with. Free of any compromises".

I bought one, not going to lie, I thought, yeah this is expensive but so is modding both a NES and a Famicom. This thing actually supports the famicom disc system as well as NES and Famicom carts. The HDMI upscaler sold me. Even though i have a Sony PVM, I am finding that I am starting to not care as much for my CRT and wanting to just play old NES games on a HDTV (Note, Zapper doesn't work on HDTVs but i have both an un-modded front loader and a CRT to play those if i feel the whim).

I want to know more about this RVGS. I was really down on it when I was thinking they are going to try and convince license holders to republish their games on this niche system. If they can get the 16-bit era working right on this thing I would probably buy it for that alone.

Retro Gaming is not cheap anymore and I kind of feel like this might be a nice in-between the casual retro fan and the hard core fan.

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

The posts from Mike are pretty fantastic as they're giving us more understanding as to the thinking behind this and how the extra features add value and justifies such a high price.

However I was thinking about this last night and I think the primary point of contention is that the slim line-up of games so far (Tiny Knight, Tower Flight and so on) fail to justify the expense of a $400 console. The games announced are Master System level in terms of graphics and proficiency. A $50 to $100 console would have the required level of technology to run those games. If something on the technical capability of FFVII was announced and shown off it'd be more understandable. So far however we're looking at games that a Sega Master System would have the technical capability to run. So why are we asked to pay the same price as a PS4 to run games that could theoretically function on $100 worth of technology and hardware at the most?

Forgive me if there are game announcements that are beyond the technical capability of something like Tiny Knight but so far the highest technical game we've seen is a SNES port. So even if we're then looking at the power of a SNES we're still only looking at $100 worth of hardware. $150 at the most and even that would be a premium. Yes I understand this machine now has advanced features which increase its base cost but I think the primary cause for concern here is that the games line-up show off really doesn't justify such an extortionate price. It feels like this project has evolved in to unnecessary overkill now. I hope this project succeeds and I mean that honestly but my interest has plummeted to practically zero now. The machine is just too expensive.

I feel like I've been priced out of the equation. We'll see how the Kickstarter pans out. Perhaps the new game announcements will be sufficiently compelling to change our minds.

 

[Kawika]

We are very cognizant of the pricing, and at this point the FPGA is only adding about $50-$60 to the overall selling price and at that difference we see no reason to leave it out. Other things we could do to lower the price are use a less capable processor, limit the # output options and remove the 9-Pin controller ports and stay only with USB. Oh, and make it in China. All things we've considered, but we really feel leaving all these options in and making it in the USA adds considerable value and needed quality to RVGS.

I make a majority of my company's parts in China but I would absolutely love to make them here instead. The fact that my business could be lost over a couple of pennies per piece really forces me to stay there. That said, I really applaud you for making it locally (even though you likely have parts inside that were fabricated in China or somewhere else). I have been critical of the pricing when I first heard about the estimated price but as I am starting to see the bigger picture and the abilities that this thing may have I am a lot more interested (and certainly a lot less annoyed by the price).

Mike I backed Retro magazine and I am interested in this product. As someone who has been dealing with the information vacuum that Analogue Interactive is infamous for I appreciate your candor. I have yet to make up my mind if this is for me but you have certainly changed my attitude towards this project.

 

[Dreamwriter]

The games announced are Master System level in terms of graphics and proficiency. A $50 to $100 console would have the required level of technology to run those games. If something on the technical capability of FFVII was announced and shown off it'd be more understandable.

I think you are missing the point of the power - as far as I understand, it's more for getting more games than for getting games with amazing graphics. For example, think of Shovel Knight: It might look like a mix between an 8-bit and 16-bit game, but it really is at heart a full PC game, and as such requires a pretty powerful device to run. A game like that would be able to switch to using actual tile-based graphics, but it would be a LOT of work, basically rewriting much of the game from scratch. So now we have a powerful console that could run a simple port of Shovel Knight with only a few changes here and there. The system was made more powerful so indie developers could easily port their games for it, possibly even using an engine like Unity. If you want a console that plays *all* of the retro-style indie games, it needs to be pretty powerful.

 

[coughlanio]

The posts from Mike are pretty fantastic as they're giving us more understanding as to the thinking behind this and how the extra features add value and justifies such a high price.

However I was thinking about this last night and I think the primary point of contention is that the slim line-up of games so far (Tiny Knight, Tower Flight and so on) fail to justify the expense of a $400 console. The games announced are Master System level in terms of graphics and proficiency. A $50 to $100 console would have the required level of technology to run those games. If something on the technical capability of FFVII was announced and shown off it'd be more understandable. So far however we're looking at games that a Sega Master System would have the technical capability to run. So why are we asked to pay the same price as a PS4 to run games that could theoretically function on $100 worth of technology and hardware at the most?

Forgive me if there are game announcements that are beyond the technical capability of something like Tiny Knight but so far the highest technical game we've seen is a SNES port. So even if we're then looking at the power of a SNES we're still only looking at $100 worth of hardware. $150 at the most and even that would be a premium. Yes I understand this machine now has advanced features which increase its base cost but I think the primary cause for concern here is that the games line-up show off really doesn't justify such an extortionate price. It feels like this project has evolved in to unnecessary overkill now. I hope this project succeeds and I mean that honestly but my interest has plummeted to practically zero now. The machine is just too expensive.

I feel like I've been priced out of the equation. We'll see how the Kickstarter pans out. Perhaps the new game announcements will be sufficiently compelling to change our minds.

Pier Solar has been announced which is a beautiful J-style-RPG. Mike is also in talks with Yacht Club and Vblank to bring over Shovel Knight and Retro City Rampage, but I last heard they're waiting to see how the Kickstarter does.

Read Only Memories is great Snatcher-inspired title too, which looks fantastic. Also look at Songbringer!

You can see a list of confirmed titles here: http://retrovgsclub.com/wiki/index.php?title=Games

9 so far!

 

[Dreamwriter]

Pier Solar has been announced which is a beautiful J-style-RPG.

That's a good point, Pier Solar in high definition looks pretty good:

 

[coughlanio]

That's a good point, Pier Solar in high definition looks pretty good:

Go look up Songbringer, even more impressive.

 

[Tempy]

Master System level.....

 

[outunderthestars]

Any eta on the KS campaign?

 

[NoFaceNico]

Any eta on the KS campaign?

Week of September 14.

... I also have a little game and giveaway I'm setting up, should be fun and more details coming soon!

 

[Dreamwriter]

It's coming together... can't say I've seen that shape on a PCB before...

 

[ultrazilla]

I really want this to do well. I just really hope they convey why the cost is high in their Kickstarter video.

I'm backing it. If I can pay $300 for a WiiU, $350 for an Xbox One and $400 for a PS4, I can pony up between $350-$400 for a retro inspired cartridge video game system. I grew up with them, I almost feel a duty to support it. Especially with not liking the way the industry has evolved with dlc, internet connections, huge patches, broken release day games, etc.

And I really want to see what developers can do with the system game wise. I really do think they'll be able to make some really neat looking games. Especially with a 3D chip/processor included. Could you imagine a wicked 2-D 32 bit inspired side scrolling Contra like game with 3D bosses kinda like what the Super FX chip did?

 

[SegaShack]

The adapters will be in the $20-$30 range. And yes, you guys have figured out how they are working. Think if our cartridges as sending a message to the FPGA chipset inside our console to reconfigure itself as one of those "legacy" consoles and to play a game like it is in that actual console. The brains are inside the carts and/or our legacy cart adapters and they tell the console what to do.

We are very cognizant of the pricing, and at this point the FPGA is only adding about $50-$60 to the overall selling price and at that difference we see no reason to leave it out. Other things we could do to lower the price are use a less capable processor, limit the # output options and remove the 9-Pin controller ports and stay only with USB. Oh, and make it in China. All things we've considered, but we really feel leaving all these options in and making it in the USA adds considerable value and needed quality to RVGS.

That's great you are making it in the USA, not enough companies do that these days.

How much would it cost to manufacture different versions with just one output each?

For example, I would only be interested in the RGB out and would not need RCA, HDMI, or S-Video. Would something like this significantly drive down the cost?

 

[caffeware]

Mike, you launch the Kickstarter with a minimum $300 buy in, it's DOA. Somewhere along the line, you forgot you wanted a true retro system. Putting all sorts of different tech in the system to give us potential for exciting new games is NOT RETRO. Retro games are more basic graphics with simpler play mechanics. I think you ran into feature creep and priced yourself out of the game before it started. You should have stuck with a range of Atari 2600-Super NES/Sega Genesis 16 bit style games. Price the system between $150-$200 and see how it did. You can always bring out another console/kickstarter for a more "advanced" Retro system with bells and whistles. I'm afraid that once this launches and inevitably fails, nobody will give you another shot should you try a different tactic via Kickstarter.

I know your trying to get Shovel Knight in there, but your missing the point.

 

[Dreamwriter]

That's great you are making it in the USA, not enough companies do that these days.

How much would it cost to manufacture different versions with just one output each?

For example, I would only be interested in the RGB out and would not need RCA, HDMI, or S-Video. Would something like this significantly drive down the cost?

The problem as I see it is, RGB is analogue, so requires a digital-to-analogue chip since the video signal is natively digital; if anything would cut the price down it would be removing all outputs except digital ones (HDMI or digital component). But even going with only HDMI probably wouldn't save much - the most expensive components are going to be the CPU/GPU system-on-chip, the RAM, and the FPGA. Plus to get any electronics manufactured requires a one-time cost of ttens of thousands to over $100,000, and for each additional line (like, a separate unit with different output options) that money would have to be paid again.

 

[Feel_The_Pain]

 Especially with not liking the way the industry has evolved with dlc, internet connections, huge patches, broken release day games, etc.

I agree also.
But, who tests the games thoughly for bugs glitches etc so as to not need patches in the future? Is it all up to the developer? Then submit the game based on their tick of approval?

 

[NoFaceNico]

It's coming together... can't say I've seen that shape on a PCB before...

Hmmm... this is an interesting turn of events. They've completely deleted these images from their Facebook and instagram accounts. I don't blame them, I think they do more harm than good. I don't know about you guys but based on the way they've conducted themselves so far, I assumed they had a rough working prototype already.

Because of this, I don't think they're even going to be allowed on Kickstarter. Having a working prototype is required for physical hardware projects.

From Kickstarter:

Projects that involve the development of physical products must feature explicit demos of working prototypes.

There is an exception but only for projects whose sole purpose is to make the prototype. I guess that's for projects that are trying to make a flying car or something, and they're not allowed to offer the finished product as a reward. They've said before that they are considering other crowdfunding sites so I think they'll probably go with IndieGoGo since they have no prototype requirements on that site.

Also, on Kickstarter they would not be able to show their "sizzle" reel or most of the product shots we've seen so far because it's a clear violation of their rules.

Don't use photorealistic renderings.
Technical drawings, CAD models, and sketches are awesome and encouraged, but photorealistic renderings that someone might mistake for a finished product are prohibited.

The Retro VGS demonstrates why Kickstarter made those rules. If you don't know a lot about the Atari Jaguar, then you could easily be misled into thinking that their transparent case shots show a completed product and not just an old Jaguar board that they used in there. I have a hunch that they probably assembled that transparent case with the prelim cardboard mock up board and were told (perhaps by Kickstarter) to get rid of it. If you're not looking closely, when shown assembled and without context that could mislead a potential backer into thinking the project is further along than it actually is.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Dunno, I wouldn't call the render "realistic", it looks very fake to me Which might be the reason they removed it. And the other picture is obviously a cardboard picture with the outputs, cartridge port, and cooling fins added (made more apparent by the printouts in the pic).

As for not being allowed on Kickstarter, what makes you think they don't have working prototypes, and won't next week? The prototype doesn't have to be in the final case or final PC board. In fact, in at least one of their earlier interviews they said they were waiting to start the Kickstarter until they had a working prototype they could show. But also, I dunno how long it takes to get an engineering sample made, but they obviously just got pictures of what the final PC board will look like, so they are far along in that.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Double post..been years since I did that!

 

[NoFaceNico]

I'm taking a leap in assuming they don't have a working prototype because when a project creator wants to hype his project so much to the point that he'll cut out a piece of cardboard and glue outputs and a famicom cartridge port to it, then I'm pretty sure he would jump at the chance to show a rough prototype if one existed. It is an assumption on my part but I have my reasons to believe it.

But thankfully, they will have to show their cards if the project launches on Kickstarter and they can't use photorealistic renders as a crutch. Kickstarter will keep them in line.

FAQ: Guidelines for Hardware and Product Design Projects

How will Kickstarter know whether something is a simulation or rendering?

We may not know. We do only a quick review to make sure a project meets our guidelines. If an obvious simulation or photorealistic rendering is spotted during that review, that project will not be allowed to launch. If a simulation or photorealistic rendering is discovered after a project launches, that project will be canceled. Everyone should continue to use their best judgment when deciding whether or not to back a project.

When you think about it, if you take out their renders the only thing they've really shown us are some Jaguar cases and games that are running off god knows what.

 

[Gruso]

And the other picture is obviously a cardboard picture with the outputs, cartridge port, and cooling fins added (made more apparent by the printouts in the pic).

Uh, this is embarrassing but I didn't even notice until you said that. Partly because I was skimming the thread, partly because of the quote-squashing.

You can put that down to me being inattentive... but in reality most people are, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people got the impression that they'd just scrolled past a completed PCB.

I don't think any deception was intended of course. Looks like they were doing a run of the mill fit test, and decided to share some pics. But something shared for a bit of fun can quickly become a FUD snowball. I can see why they'd retract them.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'm taking a leap in assuming they don't have a working prototype because when a project creator wants to hype his project so much to the point that he'll cut out a piece of cardboard and glue outputs and a famicom cartridge port to it, then I'm pretty sure he would jump at the chance to show a rough prototype if one existed.

Why would any sane person jump at the chance to show a generic stock PC test board wired to a generic stock FPGA test board wired to a loose cartridge connector when trying to hype a project up before a Kickstarter?

 

[NoFaceNico]

Oh geez, I dunno, maybe a rough prototype would show you've actually been working hard to make your dream project a reality instead of just licking Jaguar cases. And a cardboard cut out is supposed to be better? What kind of a sane person does that?

It's neither here nor there. If they go on Kickstarter, we should get our answer in a week.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Oh geez, I dunno, maybe a rough prototype would show you've actually been working hard to make your dream project a reality instead of just licking Jaguar cases. And a cardboard cut out is supposed to be better? What kind of a sane person does that?

It's neither here nor there. If they go on Kickstarter, we should get our answer in a week.

If you've ever done hardware development, showing a development board can be very unflattering and could be taken negatively from people who don't know better.

 

[Bar81]

If you've ever done hardware development, showing a development board can be very unflattering and could be taken negatively from people who don't know better.

Then better not to show anything at all - the "board" that has been shown is very unflattering and is being taken negatively by people who know better.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Then better not to show anything at all - the "board" that has been shown is very unflattering and is being taken negatively by people who know better.

I agree and that's probably why they deleted the picture.