Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
lol amateur hour
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New cartridge based non-emulated "Retro" console being kickstarted!
- Thread starter ultrazilla
- Start date
NoFaceNico
Member
Occulus Rift's Kickstarter video had a sped up clip of them building a rough prototype unit. It starts at 3:53.
GameStick had one video on their project page that was nothing but showing off prototype boards.
The ZRRO tv console project lent one of their rough prototypes to Gizmodo to test out.
hdmyboy showed off early prototypes:
Of course you want to show off your progress, they're asking the public for a lot of money. For their own sake they need to have something to show off next week and it better not be more cardboard.
GameStick had one video on their project page that was nothing but showing off prototype boards.
The ZRRO tv console project lent one of their rough prototypes to Gizmodo to test out.
hdmyboy showed off early prototypes:
Of course you want to show off your progress, they're asking the public for a lot of money. For their own sake they need to have something to show off next week and it better not be more cardboard.
Dreamwriter
Member
But you're talking about Kickstarters and other things, not attempts to create hype *before* the Kickstarter. This isn't the type of project where you could create hype by showing a bunch of raw boards hand-wired together unless you showed those boards actually working, which they are obviously waiting for the Kickstarter to show off. I just think you're being overly harsh (as you have been this entire thread) over them getting excited when first getting their "final" PCBoard design back, putting a mockup in a case to make sure it'd fit, and then sharing that image with their fans.Occulus Rift's Kickstarter video had a sped up clip of them building a rough prototype unit. It starts at 3:53.
GameStick had one video on their project page that was nothing but showing off prototype boards.
The ZRRO tv console project lent one of their rough prototypes to Gizmodo to test out.
hdmyboy showed off early prototypes:
Of course you want to show off your progress, they're asking the public for a lot of money. For their own sake they need to have something to show off next week and it better not be more cardboard.
I also find it strange you'd think they had no prototypes whatsoever considering how long they've been working on this, how much expertise they have there (they have a guy whose job used to be reverse engineering game consoles!), and the fact that they are magazine publishers who have held a successful Kickstarter before. These aren't scammers.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
I'm hoping they went into blackout mode until
the Kickstarter. Their silence is puzzling at this point.
I do wonder if there's been some major issues that
have came up recently?
My gut instinct is that this Kickstarter will be delayed
and possibly not see the light of day anytime soon...
the Kickstarter. Their silence is puzzling at this point.
I do wonder if there's been some major issues that
have came up recently?
My gut instinct is that this Kickstarter will be delayed
and possibly not see the light of day anytime soon...
NoFaceNico
Member
They've been pushing that date for quite a while as part of their whole hype. I hope they don't postpone, they've had so many missteps I don't think they can afford to lose any more ground. I don't think their fanbase [or what's left of it] is going to stick around for a last minute delay.
Meanwhile I checked out the AtariAge forums and holy shit... if you think we're brutal, those guys have no mercy!
A few of the people on that forum are starting to believe that the RVGS is just an elaborate trolling. But then again, that's AtariAge and they were the victims of that beautifully crafted Bioforce Ape prototype hoax, so I'm sure they're just suspicious of everything. Still that would be incredible.
Meanwhile I checked out the AtariAge forums and holy shit... if you think we're brutal, those guys have no mercy!
I know they'll probably be really angry about me leaking this secret proto pic, but...
A few of the people on that forum are starting to believe that the RVGS is just an elaborate trolling. But then again, that's AtariAge and they were the victims of that beautifully crafted Bioforce Ape prototype hoax, so I'm sure they're just suspicious of everything. Still that would be incredible.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
You would think the folks at Atariage would be more
welcoming-accepting of the RetroVGS. Why is there
heat?
welcoming-accepting of the RetroVGS. Why is there
heat?
woah thanks guys, i designed this! it gives me huge warm fuzzies to see ming mecca mentioned here. for the record, we manufactured and sold 100 systems to distributors. not sure exactly how many have sold through to end users as of right now, but I'd say it's around 50%, which is right in line with our expectations for the first year. 100 systems probably represents the full life of the product, at least until we achieve LZX compatibility.
"techno-luthier" really hits the nail on the head imo. part of what i'm trying to do with special stage is co-opt the language of corporate design / capitalism and sort of explore this weird territory where you can make really bizarre, niche products that are almost more like art-objects. if you're smart with expectations and manage your business properly it's totally possible to do this sort of ultra-small scale production and make a living off it or at least break even. i'm also designing some new modules that are a little less esoteric... the idea is to sort of alternate weird modules with more conventional musical tools in order to subsidize the really experimental stuff.
anyway, thanks again for the mention ^___^
and wishing retro all the sucess in the world. i think it's a cool idea. hope they get a working prototype together soon.
ElectricThunder
Member
Heh, nice surprise to see you around here and still hard at it jbartee---doubly glad to see I didn't mistakenly construe you/the gist of it on the whole techno-luthier front either!
There's definite value in alternating tech, even aside from the subsidizing front, the rhythm should serve to broaden horizons and break barriers to ease people into works beyond the norm----folks get too accustomed to singular, linear progress and the world is worse for wear from the lack of side tangents running wildly in parallel.
I do hope RetroVGS can pull it together with whatever's going on with all this pic and prototype business---(exotic) hardware will still summon just about the highest amount of skepticism for good and ill so that has to be something they keep in mind with the overall plan.
There's definite value in alternating tech, even aside from the subsidizing front, the rhythm should serve to broaden horizons and break barriers to ease people into works beyond the norm----folks get too accustomed to singular, linear progress and the world is worse for wear from the lack of side tangents running wildly in parallel.
I do hope RetroVGS can pull it together with whatever's going on with all this pic and prototype business---(exotic) hardware will still summon just about the highest amount of skepticism for good and ill so that has to be something they keep in mind with the overall plan.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
RetroVGS has updated their Facebook page with a statement:
Are there people familiar with FPGA / hardware emulation here? I'm interested in the potential input lag compared to software emulation. Software emulation has by definition at least one frame of delay between the controller poll and the frame display, but can I suppose it doesn't happen with hardware emulation, as it's mimicking the chip itself? Can you have a working lightgun game with hardware emulation?
stan423321
Member
I think the same limitations apply as with light gun game on PS4. You technically can, the biggest problem is making sure people have a wired gun and a TV compatible with that gun (i.e. CRT in most cases).
I'm still absolutely convinced that this product will never end up coming to market - too ambitious, far too niche, and I'm not even sure how well-baked any of the hardware is. At this point, even if it did come out, nobody will buy it at the $300-$400 price range. That's PS4/Xbox One territory, and the number of gamers willing to spend PS4 prices on a console that plays retro games (with questionable compatibility/performance) is going to be virtually zero.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
The chance of this Kickstarter being delayed now is through the roof. We won't have to wait much longer to find out.
Dreamwriter
Member
Why? They haven't given any hints that it would be delayed - their most recent statement in fact basically says that since they are about to reveal all the info at the Kickstarter anyways, they removed the images that might confuse newcomers. It should be starting some time next week.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Talk of the Kickstarter being in any kind of trouble was false and I'm glad!
They've actually just been getting ready for the start next week.
They've also announced "Gunlord" will be coming to the system on their Facebook page! A 2-D old school parallax scrolling shooter ala Contra.
Video here of Neo Geo/Dreamcast version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU5zBfERRn8
Edit: Gren-you just beat me haha
They've actually just been getting ready for the start next week.
They've also announced "Gunlord" will be coming to the system on their Facebook page! A 2-D old school parallax scrolling shooter ala Contra.
Video here of Neo Geo/Dreamcast version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU5zBfERRn8
Edit: Gren-you just beat me haha
More like Turrican imo
A Black Falcon
Member
That's not just opinion, Gunlord is a pretty straight Turrican clone. It changes a couple of things (you have only three hit points, most obviously), but not much. It's Turrican... which is great, because Turrican is a fantastic series! Gunlord is amazing and is the best classic-console homebrew game I have ever played, so this is a great addition to the platform.
Now, at $300-$400 I doubt I can justify backing this system now, but we'll see.
NoFaceNico
Member
Hey everyone, the Retro VGS Kickstarter[??] will be launching this week. Wanna play a game of RETRO?
It plays like bingo but here you win when certain words and phrases are said during the campaign pitch video!
I've got prizes to give away to the winners, check out this video to see what's up for grabs.
You can send me a PM and I'll send you a PDF with a randomized game board.
It plays like bingo but here you win when certain words and phrases are said during the campaign pitch video!
I've got prizes to give away to the winners, check out this video to see what's up for grabs.
You can send me a PM and I'll send you a PDF with a randomized game board.
dancrane212
Member
Have they said how the distinction in aspect ratio between many HDTVs and CRTs is going to be handled? Are widescreen games going to be automatically letterboxed on a 4:3 screen if they don't have native support for that aspect ratio?
sixteen-bit
Member
a much more apt comparison
Kawika
Member
I think a lot of us here are skeptical about the abilities and the viability of this system but I am still fairly excited to see what they are actually going to come up with. Is this just scorn from previous attempts at alt systems (Ouya etc) by unproven hardware manufacturers or is this specifically aimed at Kennedy for some reason or another.
Seems there is a lot of hate for the person who KS'd the Analogue NT. Apparently, the main guy is the boogie man or something. I have yet to find out who he is or what he did wrong. I can only know what experience that I have had with Analogue Interactive Team. Apart from not communicating well, the person I deal with has tried to help me as best as he can.
In the end, this system might be too expensive and not do enough to justify the price. I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt before the KS launches.
Seems there is a lot of hate for the person who KS'd the Analogue NT. Apparently, the main guy is the boogie man or something. I have yet to find out who he is or what he did wrong. I can only know what experience that I have had with Analogue Interactive Team. Apart from not communicating well, the person I deal with has tried to help me as best as he can.
In the end, this system might be too expensive and not do enough to justify the price. I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt before the KS launches.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
$299 early bird price for first 500 backers. $350
after that.
I'm gonna back it but that 2-3 million dollar goal
will be almost impossible imho.
after that.
I'm gonna back it but that 2-3 million dollar goal
will be almost impossible imho.
NoFaceNico
Member
Don't tell that to this kid-
Their Facebook page is such a gold mine. They erase the funniest shit. Here's the RVGS pitch in action:
Dreamwriter
Member
The early bird price gets the default black color, the $349 price gets exclusive colors (I want that atomic purple!) And they reiterated that pledgers will be able to add games to their pledge as add-ons (pledge for a console, then add the price of the games you want to your pledge). They said they still have more games to reveal.
They hinted at some point in the past that they'd need around 7000 system pledges to make their goal, if that's still the case, sounds like their goal is around $2.5 million.
Dreamwriter
Member
Some time this week
Ah I wasnt sure if a date was ever given, it said counting down and I was like I need an end date to count down hehe.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
$299 is 100 less than I was expecting. Good news.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
The Kickstarter campaign is supposed to run 45 days. If it starts this Friday(a pay day in the United States) it would end November 1st. Seems like a good guess.
Dreamwriter
Member
New updates: first, another game, this one a Neo Geo game "Knight's Chance"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0VxABaIWfI
Second they added what appears to be an expansion port to the system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0VxABaIWfI
Second they added what appears to be an expansion port to the system:
Yes, no one seemed to notice but the board printout picture they posted then deleted had shown quite a different back panel. Gone is the S-Video port and the USB are better organised. I was wondering what was the big black block in the middle was, and it seems to be an expansion port.
I'm going to guess the FPGA is now optional and can be plugged into the expansion port for emulation options.
I'm going to guess the FPGA is now optional and can be plugged into the expansion port for emulation options.
dancrane212
Member
Looking at the linked AtariAge forum thread they saw the Retro VGS site is now stating it will be funded via Indiegogo instead of Kickstarter.
http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html
Yeah...don't think that is going to work out for them.
http://www.retrovgs.com/f.a.q..html
Yeah...don't think that is going to work out for them.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Why switch from KS to Indiegogo? Doesn't Indiegogo have a smaller cap for raised funds than KS?
Bar81
Member
Because they obviously don't have anything resembling a working prototype - all they've produced is cardboard and computer renderings that are changing weekly - and that won't fly on KS as noted above in this thread.
What a trainwreck this is shaping up to be - it just keeps giving.
Because they can opt for flexible funding and take any money they raise even if they fail to meet the end goal?
They don't meet Kickstarter's minimum requirements. Alternatively Indiegogo lets you keep the funding even if you don't reach the funding goal.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
And what about actual working hardware? Does Indiegogo require that? I heard Kickstarter does. Perhaps they didn't have a working prototype done yet? That does raise some flags for me......
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Some shady shit. I'm guessing we're not going to see as much out of the campaign as I'd hoped. It's jumping to a conclusion, but it's easy to imagine that they don't have much proof to show, just a lot of promises.
Bar81
Member
That's disgusting. So when this thing tanks the people gullible enough to give money to this get robbed.
Dreamwriter
Member
Indiegogo charges a smaller fee and has a higher success rate than Kickstarter, assuming you do a fixed goal (meaning you do NOT get money unless you meet your goal). Flex goals have a much lower success rate. And as was mentioned, Indiegogo has fewer restrictions, like allowing you to show a render of what your product is going to look like when it ships.
That's only true if you setup your campaign for that - you can set a fixed goal, and then it acts just like Kickstarter. And this is the type of campaign where that should be what they choose, because they know how much money they need to get this project going, and they can't if they get less.
NoFaceNico
Member
From 9/8/15:
If they launch this thing without a working prototype then it's all going exactly as I suspected. I will then buy a pie and eat it. I'll eat it all up. Yum yum yum
It's amazing. We throw so much shit at Kickstarter, saying they let anything fly, they're too creator-friendly, there's no accountability when things go wrong. This might be the first project I'm aware of that couldn't get on Kickstarter because they had too many restrictions on the creator.
If they launch this thing without a working prototype then it's all going exactly as I suspected. I will then buy a pie and eat it. I'll eat it all up. Yum yum yum
It's amazing. We throw so much shit at Kickstarter, saying they let anything fly, they're too creator-friendly, there's no accountability when things go wrong. This might be the first project I'm aware of that couldn't get on Kickstarter because they had too many restrictions on the creator.
Time for damage control 
First off, Indiegogo has been courting us for the past 4 months and have gone above and beyond doing whatever they can to get our campaign running over there. They have been accommodating and pro-active with us while Kickstarter could care less about what I feel could be a very substantial campaign.
Next, to address the prototyping situation and Kickstarter. We've had a variety of conversations directly with them, especially since OUYA never showed anything near a prototype, and also after seeing a current (laughable) campaign like this get approved: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...onsole-without-microtransaction?ref=discovery
They have indicated that they don't really require a "working" prototype even though their policies clearly state otherwise. We have received their approval but are still moving away from them since they wouldn't actually change that verbiage to accommodate our (and I am sure other legitimate hardware ventures) situation. And we don't want to raise any red flags with potential backers not understanding exactly where we are in our development process.
Next, Indiegogo also offers a Fixed Funding option which works just like Kickstarter. We don't get the money unless we reach our minimum goal. So please don't immediately jump to conclusions without learning more about that venue
Guys, we have dedicated over a year getting to the point we are today. Everything is in place to prepare us for the more costly prototyping phase. I have confidence in my team who have a career in software/hardware development to deliver in spades and ship this product within a years time. So just check out our campaign when it goes live and make your decisions based on all the final information. We will be bringing our backers on the front lines of console development, from the extensive prototyping to production and everything in between via weekly updates and videos.
Hey, Indiegogo also accepts Paypal so that is a good perk as well. Hold tight and stay positive. We are getting ready to turn it on soon. Just a few last minute things need to fall into place. Hoping for a Saturday activation.
First off, Indiegogo has been courting us for the past 4 months and have gone above and beyond doing whatever they can to get our campaign running over there. They have been accommodating and pro-active with us while Kickstarter could care less about what I feel could be a very substantial campaign.
Next, to address the prototyping situation and Kickstarter. We've had a variety of conversations directly with them, especially since OUYA never showed anything near a prototype, and also after seeing a current (laughable) campaign like this get approved: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...onsole-without-microtransaction?ref=discovery
They have indicated that they don't really require a "working" prototype even though their policies clearly state otherwise. We have received their approval but are still moving away from them since they wouldn't actually change that verbiage to accommodate our (and I am sure other legitimate hardware ventures) situation. And we don't want to raise any red flags with potential backers not understanding exactly where we are in our development process.
Next, Indiegogo also offers a Fixed Funding option which works just like Kickstarter. We don't get the money unless we reach our minimum goal. So please don't immediately jump to conclusions without learning more about that venue
Guys, we have dedicated over a year getting to the point we are today. Everything is in place to prepare us for the more costly prototyping phase. I have confidence in my team who have a career in software/hardware development to deliver in spades and ship this product within a years time. So just check out our campaign when it goes live and make your decisions based on all the final information. We will be bringing our backers on the front lines of console development, from the extensive prototyping to production and everything in between via weekly updates and videos.
Hey, Indiegogo also accepts Paypal so that is a good perk as well. Hold tight and stay positive. We are getting ready to turn it on soon. Just a few last minute things need to fall into place. Hoping for a Saturday activation.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Thanks for jumping on Mike. That's the kind of quick
communication that helps ease some concern. Guess we'll have to see what you guys have to say tomorrow. ☺
communication that helps ease some concern. Guess we'll have to see what you guys have to say tomorrow. ☺
Yeah, no problem. I hope that everyone finally realizes we are all industry people working on this with long standing reputations and what not. We, more than anyone, want to see RETRO VGS become a reality. Hell, I want to start buying and playing games again, something I've stopped doing on modern systems the past 3-5 years. And Steve Woita wants to make games for this system
Kawika
Member
Better to not back and see what comes to market than save $50 on the early bird crowd fund. I really thought they were close to having this thing finished.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
My concern about this is that I want this to succeed
and not see it fail! I have zero concerns regarding Mike and his team's reputation and pedigree here. It has to be terribly difficult to get a project like this into
the general public's hands. They've been nothing but
upfront and "transparent"
and not see it fail! I have zero concerns regarding Mike and his team's reputation and pedigree here. It has to be terribly difficult to get a project like this into
the general public's hands. They've been nothing but
upfront and "transparent"
There is a lot of work and expense to prototype a consumer product and to do it right. Our team is confident that the architecture and circuit design they have spent almost a year on will work as planned. We have been fortunate to already have the shell and cartridge prototypes and controller prototypes all in hand and that is a large part of this venture. We have established relationships with the largest electronics distributors in the country and have a local contract PCBA manufacturer ready and waiting to start producing. The prototyping of the console electronics itself will come together soon after we are funded.