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[EviLore]

Desslock said it took him 126 hours (iirc) to do everything, including going back and doing all the origin stories.

 

[Zeliard]

I've always found the estimates for game length for these sorts of games to be completely ridiculous and arbitrary. Someone's 50 hours is another guy's 100 hours. It's ridiculous to try and stick some number on that.

 

[speedpop]

That makes no sense. Is Planescape a consolfied story cause it has some tearjerker drama? Why is this only a console game thing?

Because consoles are painted as being predominantly owned by children and teenagers. PCs have always had the air of mature adults playing, so you were less likely to run into stories that could have been aimed at a younger audience. That's not to say that you'll never play some game on PC with a story created in a childish manner, and vice-versa.

I imagine the point he is trying to argue is that for the past several generations of gaming stories created on consoles were less than stellar - a lot of that tainted heritage coming from Japanese developers who can't write for shit (Matsuno's and Kato's efforts withstanding) therefore a lot of it comes off as melodrama.

Taking a look now at some of the more "heralded" games as-of-late where the story in a game is enjoyed a lot, it's not hard to miss the fact that they were or still are part of the PC developing community; the Bioshocks, the Fallouts, the Elder Scrolls, the BioWare IPs - these games all come from developers who created on the PC. Perhaps he is worried that these developers may have to take cuts to an original script in order to appease some guy in a suit at a publishing firm... even though that could be completely misleading.

 

[Minsc]

Go Dragon Age! Took spots 3 & 4 in Steam's top 10 sales last week (up from just being tied in spot 4 the prior week):

1. Borderlands.
2. Left 4 Dead 2.
3. Dragon Age: Origins Digital Deluxe Edition.
4. Dragon Age: Origins.
5. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.
6. ARMA 2.
7. Aion Standard Edition.
8. Tropico 3 - Steam Special Edition.
9. Assassin's Creed Director's Cut Edition.
10. Killing Floor and Left 4 Dead and Counter-Strike: Source.

 

[charsace]

Reviews are coming in and I never had any doubt that this game would be awesome. All the advertising they've shown was to capture the casual crowd that doesn't generally play RPGs.

 

[Kosma]

Good to see it selling well already. Hope this will entice Bioware to make more non sci fi rpg's that are more traditional and deeper.

Reviews are coming in and I never had any doubt that this game would be awesome. All the advertising they've shown was to capture the casual crowd that doesn't generally play RPGs.

I've been thinking this too since day one, hope they will succeed in their plan.

How big is the extra content you get in the Deluxe version btw? How long do those extra quests take?

 

[RJT]

I'm glad the game delivered. How are the requirements for the game? I have a GF8600 and don't mind playing at lower resolutions.

 

[Kosma]

System Requirements

XP Minimum:

OS: Windows XP with SP3
Processor: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.4Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 1.8Ghz or greater
Memory: 1GB or more
Graphics: ATI Radeon X850 128MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT 128MB or greater
DirectX®: DirectX (November 2007)
Hard Drive: 20 GB HD space
Sound: Direct X Compatible Sound Card

Vista Minimum:

OS: Windows Vista with SP1
Processor: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater AMD X2(or equivalent) running at 2.0Ghz or greater
Memory: 1.5 GB or more
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1550 256MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater
DirectX®: DirectX (November 2007)
Hard Drive: 20 GB HD space
Sound: Direct X Compatible Sound Card

Recommended:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or AMD Phenom II X3 Triple-Core 2.8 GHz or greater
Memory: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP)
Graphics: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater

 

[Ponn]

Hey guys, I have a Celeron 2.93 GHZ processor with 512 RAM and built in Intel Graphics. You think I can get the PC version?

 

[benny_a]

That's funny, because it hasn't been. [inflated]

What to you call the 800 hours comment then?

As my previous example was, what if Blizzard did the same? What if Naughty Dog said that Uncharted 2 is 11 hours * 30 (because it has a certain number of unlocked combination)?

 

[Dennis]

Reviews are coming in and I never had any doubt that this game would be awesome. All the advertising they've shown was to capture the casual crowd that doesn't generally play RPGs.

I don't mind admitting that the advertising had me worried - it was sooo bad.

But thankfully it appears my fears were unfounded.

 

[RJT]

System Requirements

Thanks! I'm way above the minimum, so I'll be fine.

 

[Kosma]

Hey guys, I have a Celeron 2.93 GHZ processor with 512 RAM and built in Intel Graphics. You think I can get the PC version?

uuh no

 

[Peronthious]

Hey guys, I have a Celeron 2.93 GHZ processor with 512 RAM and built in Intel Graphics. You think I can get the PC version?

hah

hah hah

hah

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Hey guys, I have a Celeron 2.93 GHZ processor with 512 RAM and built in Intel Graphics. You think I can get the PC version?

If you overclock you could get by.

 

[DieH@rd]

Hey guys, I have a Celeron 2.93 GHZ processor with 512 RAM and built in Intel Graphics. You think I can get the PC version?

Dont buy it on day 1 thats for sure. Wait for a demo.

 

[HK-47]

Because consoles are painted as being predominantly owned by children and teenagers. PCs have always had the air of mature adults playing, so you were less likely to run into stories that could have been aimed at a younger audience. That's not to say that you'll never play some game on PC with a story created in a childish manner, and vice-versa.

I imagine the point he is trying to argue is that for the past several generations of gaming stories created on consoles were less than stellar - a lot of that tainted heritage coming from Japanese developers who can't write for shit (Matsuno's and Kato's efforts withstanding) therefore a lot of it comes off as melodrama.

Taking a look now at some of the more "heralded" games as-of-late where the story in a game is enjoyed a lot, it's not hard to miss the fact that they were or still are part of the PC developing community; the Bioshocks, the Fallouts, the Elder Scrolls, the BioWare IPs - these games all come from developers who created on the PC. Perhaps he is worried that these developers may have to take cuts to an original script in order to appease some guy in a suit at a publishing firm... even though that could be completely misleading.

The writing in a majority of those games is no less childish or over dramatic. Just cause WRPG games get Planescape or SS2 on their side doesnt mean the majority is better.

Also Bioshock is a shooter.

 

[MirageDwarf]

What to you call the 800 hours comment then?

As my previous example was, what if Blizzard did the same? What if Naughty Dog said that Uncharted 2 is 11 hours * 30 (because it has a certain number of unlocked combination)?

I don't know. I'm sure most of people who hear that would not take it literally and would know that developer is talking metaphorically. Generally no one would hold them up for that comment.

 

[Lostconfused]

Dont buy it on day 1 thats for sure. Wait for a demo.

The demo is out and its called Dragon Age Origins Character Creator. And no he shouldn't get it on pc.

If you overclock you could get by.

On board video card = Its a no go chief.

 

[calder]

Recommended:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or AMD Phenom II X3 Triple-Core 2.8 GHz or greater
Memory: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP)
Graphics: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater

All I know is that the character creator bags my Q6600 like few apps I run. :lol My CPU widget does not usually show all 4 cores running that flat out, can't wait to have the full game stretching out my formerly beasty machine. I really need to either get another gig of ram or replace my 8800.

 

[HK-47]

Modern games do have smaller scope to their worlds because they're attempting to appeal to a broader range of people, and it's easier to offer people a more guided experience with a more focused story rather than throw you into a world based more around a premise than a plot.

I think there's room for both. I don't know if there's a big enough audience for the former in today's big budget productions.

That has to with the audience, not the console. Also many of those older, late nineties RPGs had focused main stories. Not all PC games are open world. And its seems like unguided, sandbox experiences seem pretty popular with the console crowd so thats just bullshit.

Also your argument is strange. You seem to think modern games offer more guided experiences over open ones cause they appeal to a broader range of people, yet then you say the former (guided experiences) dont have a big enough audience to make them worthwhile to big budget devs. So which is it?

 

[-tetsuo-]

That's funny, because it hasn't been. The numbers we've heard out of Bioware aren't marketing directed over-inflations. They're just (for all we know, and it corresponds to what independent reviewers say) honest answers to the question. Specific individuals played the game for specific amounts of time.

They're quite happy to clarify that 120hrs is extreme. 120hrs is a real figure for one specific person. Each person that plays the game is going to have their own completion time. Bioware usually try to avoid handing out figures, because they know the time varies significantly depending on how you play.

So when a specific dev is asked 'how long is the game', he can either give that kind of answer and be accused of dodging the question and not being helpful, or he can simply say how long he took to complete.

As long as you understand that everyone is different, there should be no issue here, and no reason to think you're being lied to by the developer.

Then I guess you understand why I think their numbers are inflated. The last couple Bioware games didn't last me nearly as long as they said they were.

 

[speedpop]

The writing in a majority of those games is no less childish or over dramatic. Just cause WRPG games get Planescape or SS2 on their side doesnt mean the majority is better.

Also Bioshock is a shooter.

I'm not arguing that they are better, I'm merely showing that games which are likened more for their story have their development roots on PC.

Whether Bioshock is a shooter or not is inconsequential - the game is loved and cherished by many because of its story.

 

[sendu]

Then I guess you understand why I think their numbers are inflated. The last couple Bioware games didn't last me nearly as long as they said they were.

I don't think you know what 'inflated' means. What you're actually saying is that "their numbers were not representative of my own experience", which is fine. Someone else's numbers are very unlikely to be the same as yours unless you're talking about an extremely simple, directed and linear game. 'Inflated' suggests "enlarged beyond truth or reasonableness", which isn't the case here, since the numbers are true for specific people.

 

[HK-47]

I'm not arguing that they are better, I'm merely showing that games which are likened more for their story have their development roots on PC.

Whether Bioshock is a shooter or not is inconsequential - the game is loved and cherished by many because of its story.

And I'm saying that the genre only gets that praise on the backs of a few truly well written games and low expectations.

 

[zoukka]

Downloaded the CG trailer and some "race" vids. Holy shit what a cheese fest.

 

[Kosma]

All I know is that the character creator bags my Q6600 like few apps I run. :lol My CPU widget does not usually show all 4 cores running that flat out, can't wait to have the full game stretching out my formerly beasty machine. I really need to either get another gig of ram or replace my 8800.

I think the char creator put everything on Medium on my rig automaticly, I'm curious how it will hold up ingame. I think I can pull high off.

I have too little RAM and too little RAM in my GPU. Plus not enough cores. :lol

X2 5000
2GB RAM
3850 Ati 256 MB
Windows 7

 

[Minsc]

Downloaded the CG trailer and some "race" vids. Holy shit what a cheese fest.

Which one? There's only been like one good CG trailer so far, Sacred Ashes, definitely worth watching. Everything else you'd have been better off skipping.

 

[Kosma]

Minsc minsc minsc, whats the deal with the deluxe edition, I know you have the lowdown.

 

[zoukka]

Which one? There's only been like one good CG trailer so far, Sacred Ashes, definitely worth watching. Everything else you'd have been better off skipping.

It was that one. Can't really see why someone would recommend it to anyone.

 

[HK-47]

It was that one. Can't really see why someone would recommend it to anyone.

Bu-bu-but it had people transforming into giant spiders!

 

[Minsc]

Minsc minsc minsc, whats the deal with the deluxe edition, I know you have the lowdown.

About 1/2 way down it lists it out (you have to click collector's version though):

* Tin case. (box version only)
* Bonus DVD including:
- A making of documentary
- Soundtrack
- Trailers
- Wallpaper
- Concept art video
- Strategy tips
* Cloth map. (box version only)
* 3 pieces of exclusive in-game content:
- Bergen’s Honor: A massive helmet made out of dragonbone (+2 to armor, +25 physical resistance, +6 to attack).
- Grimoire of the Frozen Wates: A special book that adds +3 to all attributes when read.
- Final Reason: A magical staff of immense power (adds to damage, spell power, and fire damage).
* "The Stone Prisoner" unlockable bonus quest and unlockable character, Shale.
* Exclusive in-game item for use in the upcoming title Mass Effect 2.
* Warden's Keep (digital version only)

Bought it through Steam myself. If the bolded things don't interest you, it's probably not worth it, unless you like the physical tin box or blood stained cloth map (don't get those digitally unfortunately).

Bu-bu-but it had people transforming into giant spiders!

It was pretty well done I thought. With the dragon slaying, and carnage, it reminded me a little of the original Dawn of War intro, almost as good as that one.

 

[NIN90]

About 1/2 way down it lists it out:



Bought it through Steam myself. If the bolded things don't interest you, it's probably not worth it, unless you like the physical tin box or blood stained cloth map (don't get those digitally unfortunately).

WTF I thought everyone who buys the game new gets the Shale quest?

 

[Kosma]

Ok I checked it out on Steam now but I also see this entire story segment that seems to be exclusive for the deluxe digital version. I just dont have a clue how big it is. Its only 5 euro more though.

Warden's Keep

Some claim the fortress of Soldier’s Peak is corrupted and overrun by demons. Others whisper of betrayal and the spirits of murdered Grey Wardens. Whatever the truth, Soldier’s Peak is no place for the living.

Relive the darkest hour of the Grey Wardens with all-new content that adds to the main Dragon Age: Origins campaign. This downloadable adventure reveals secrets hidden for generations, and includes unique achievements, unlockable character abilities, powerful items, and much more!

New quests - discover what really happened to the Grey Wardens of old and what led to their expulsion from Ferelden
New features - a base of operations with party storage. Inventory full? Stash new items as well as loot from the main Dragon Age: Origins campaign
New items and abilities - talents and spells from the Power of Blood school, unique achievements, and powerful items including a set of Grey Warden Commander armor

 

[Minsc]

Ok I checked it out on Steam now but I also see this entire story segment that seems to be exclusive for the deluxe digital version. I just dont have a clue how big it is. Its only 5 euro more though.

Yea, looks right:

When you buy the digital version (and only the digital version) of the Collector’s Edition you get the Warden’s Keep for free to compensate for no actual cloth map nor the metal collector's box (both cloth and metal are hard to download).

Those who buy the box version of the Collector's Edition or the regular version of Dragon Age do not get Warden's Keep for free.

Hopefully that is super clear for everyone. Stay tuned for additional answers to questions as they pop up on pre-ordering Dragon Age Origins.

Damn, a 32-page thread on that topic alone? Well, sounds like the Steam version is the better deal anyway, with the additional bonus adventure, lucked out.

 

[Lostconfused]

Ok I checked it out on Steam now but I also see this entire story segment that seems to be exclusive for the deluxe digital version. I just dont have a clue how big it is. Its only 5 euro more though.

That part is DLC that will be available for sale later, or namely on day 1.

 

[Minsc]

Looks like Wardens Keep DLC lets you store more items, as you're capped by the save game limit without the DLC.

PC version will probably get modded very quickly, but still sounds nice:

You have a limit of item types you can carry around, starting at I think 60 or 70 different types of items.

Everything stacks and does not count against the limit, so finding the second iron longsword will not count against the limit but finding the Thorn of the Gods unique dagger would.

Throughout the game, you can buy some additional bags that add +10 slots (e.g. 10 more item types).

The reason why there is a restriction at all is quite simple: Primarily savegame size. Storing an item type increases savegame size, while storing the second of an item is just incrementing the stack size, aka it's free storage wise.

Why restrict savegame size?

a) purely technical - because it increases load times and memory consumption of the active party. Remember, items can have a lot of properties and stats. Some NWN character files had 10 megs and caused all kinds of issues (bags within bags within bags), so limiting avoids all of them and protects the player from themselves.

b) because with too many items, the UI becomes unergonomic. This is true for every UI style (grid inventory with bag within bag is just as bad). Additionally, inventory is a list internally and every item type added to it increases the cost of actions associated with that list, so without a limit at some point the UI will not perform that great anymore (e.g. item comparisons, etc).


Why allow increase in size?

Because the game flow introduces a more and more items as you get into the game. We have a significant number of item types in the game and by gating the increase in backpack size slowly, we were hoping to force people to engage in inventory management (aka selling old stuff).

The fundamental problem is that many gamers are packrats and don't want to part from their old items, no matter how useless they might have become. Other gamers expect inventory to be a resource management game (in form of grid tetris, weight or other limits).

It's a can't please everyone situation and, depending on playstyle, anything below unlimited inventory will not be enough for some, but for memory, UI ergonomy and stability reasons, we need to have some restrictions nonetheless.

Interestingly, this tells you a bit about item variation that people are concerned about. A fully upgraded party backpack can hold more than 100 different item types and still that's not enough for people.

The Camp

Characters that are in the camp keep the items they have on their body, so you can store additional items there, yes. However, these items are not accessible while you're out of camp unless you can switch in that party member, which is not always allowed (e.g. not in the midst of a dungeon.


The Wardens Keep Chest

We originally had wanted a storage chest in the base camp, but found it unnecessary in testing (probably because most testers trained themselves to sell items they no longer needed) and had encountered some technical implementation issues with it (due to the camp not being just a single area but multiple different area) that caused us to abandon the idea before (aka the implementation cost was higher than the perceived value of the feature).

The team working on Warden's Keep was seperate from the rest of the design team on their on schedule and time. They decided on a storage chest as a nice feature for your own keep and implemented it (which works because the technical issues present in the main campaign do not apply to the way WC is structured.)

Naturally, any useful feature the DLC team adds will come up as 'this should have been in the main game', especially if it's a cool and useful feature, but frankly, we had to ship at some point and while there is still many ideas to explore and many cool features we could have added, nearly 7 years of development time and features is already present in the game - very few games offer that kind of value these days.

To be honest, it sounds like an excuse to me. Listing out your inventory in a savegame has to be trivial compared to keeping track of every item you've dropped or every question you've answered on a plot branch, and all your stats, explored sections of the map, etc. I guess if you have 10,000 items, yea, it'd get a bit larger, but 300 vs 70 is probably not a huge difference. More the case, as it says above, you just really don't ever need to be carrying that many items on you it seems.

 

[Doytch]

So I'll most like get this, assuming people don't do a total 180 on it when it's released. Is the regular version + $7 quest download the best way to go if I don't care about items? I don't really want to preorder either, will I miss anything?

 

[Durante]

I don't know how they implement their lists, but if operations on them seriously become problematic at 100 items (rather than, say, one million) then they should look into hiring some new programmers. Cheap excuse.

 

[HK-47]

Wait, so the main game doesnt have any sort of storage chest but the DLC does?

 

[Dennis]

I like it when games restricts the number of items you can carry.
It forces you to prioritize and adds another layer of depth, I think.

 

[Barrett2]

I've always found the estimates for game length for these sorts of games to be completely ridiculous and arbitrary. Someone's 50 hours is another guy's 100 hours. It's ridiculous to try and stick some number on that.

So true. I spent 61 hours in Fallout 3, but I didn't even do half the side missions. The amount of random wandering / leveling someone does will vary greatly. Suffice to say, sounds like this game is big.

 

[Durante]

Wait, so the main game doesnt have any sort of storage chest but the DLC does?

Yes. We had a lot of fun with the $7 chest a few pages back actually.

 

[HK-47]

Well thats...sort of bullshit.

 

[water_wendi]

i kind of like inventory limits. There is something about unlimited space with no weight requirement that rubs me wrong. Especially when items stack. Its ridiculous when you go to a merchant and sell stacks of 100+ weapons. Having limits makes journeys and lootfinding more.. i dont know.. involved? Thoughtful? Like you have to plan a little bit more before you go traipsing across the world map picking up everything for one huge payoff.

 

[Durante]

I'm not sure if I want inventory limits or not. On the one hand it's more realistic, but even with limits you can often carry a lot more than realistically feasible, so that reason falls flat in many cases (notable exception: The Witcher).
On the other hand, not having any restriction felt very liberating in Risen. It's just so convenient taking everything with you just in case you might need it at some point. Coming out of a dungeon carrying 45 heavy weapons is admittedly a bit silly though.

 

[MirageDwarf]

I'm not sure if I want inventory limits or not. On the one hand it's more realistic, but even with limits you can often carry a lot more than realistically feasible, so that reason falls flat in many cases (notable exception: The Witcher).
On the other hand, not having any restriction felt very liberating in Risen. It's just so convenient taking everything with you just in case you might need it at some point. Coming out of a dungeon carrying 45 heavy weapons is admittedly a bit silly though.

Even though it falls flat, in game world with lots of different items to collect, limiting an inventory forces you to think what to pick up or clean up your inventory. So it works and it's closer to reality as opposed to no limit at all.

Personally, I don't mind limiting inventory slots which is still a big number in DA. If given unlimited slots, most of time I keep collecting stuff I never ever use and in-game inventory management becomes unnecessary headache.

 

[HK-47]

Even though it falls flat, in game world with lots of different items to collect, limiting an inventory forces you to think what to pick up or clean up your inventory. So it works and it's closer to reality as opposed to no limit at all.

Personally, I don't mind limiting inventory slots which is still a big number in DA. If given unlimited slots, most of time I keep collecting stuff I never ever use and in-game inventory management becomes unnecessary headache.

The headache is just the same as the limit. Its telling you "time to unload some shit."

 

[K.Jack]

I'd like to know when we get access to Stone Prisoner, and the Keep.

 

[sendu]

I'd like to know when we get access to Stone Prisoner, and the Keep.

Immediately after you've downloaded them? For digital editions it will be up to the retailer and how quick they are at emailing you the codes. For physical, the codes come in the box. (Keep isn't available in a physical edition though.)