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[Schopenhauerian]

I don't really like the look of the remake there. Looks pretty bland.

Needs more neon and green? The remake looks kind of bland with it being mostly brown in tone. Of course it's just a screenshot and the rest of the area can look like the original location lighting wise.

Assuming the shot is near the beginning in the reactor, compare this... to the original... It just looks a bit bland now.

It's way too clean. The original cg backgrounds were loaded with detail. Guess we'll never get there in real time.

Not super pleased with how Midgar looks in the gameplay trailer and now here. It lacks the grime and lived in feeling from the original. I understand this is not the slum area tough. Hopefully they can represent that aspect properly...

i dislike it... seems generic. in art terms.

I don't really see the whole bland look everyone is talking about...

This was discussed a bit in a previous thread (post one / post two / post three / post four / post five), where DiipuSurotu was pretty skeptical (like Zakalwe and TheGreatDirector in this thread) that there is so far any discernible difference in color scheme/palette/grading, while Yarbskoo agreed that there's a noticeable difference, but also expressed an overall preference for the Remake's look.

From reading through this thread, it certainly seems like most folks are liking the overall look of the Remake, but I'd personally be interested to hear more opinions on the color scheme/palette/grading issue, specifically.

Additional Note: John/dark10x of Digital Foundry notes that some of the available footage from Remake is a bit closer to the original (in terms of color) than the PS3 tech demo was. Starting at 1:03: "...The [PS3] tech demo footage is less colorful overall than the original scene, which you can feel as the camera zooms down to the train station here. As we transition over to PS4 footage, note the increase in color saturation that's more in line with the original game. Placing the two versions back to back you can really see what the team is trying to do here..."

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Why does Square hate turn-based combat so much now that they have to completely uproot the battle system from the original game?

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Ooooh baby

Maybe I'm forgetting FF7's systems but why are magic and materia different options?

Real Time menuing/switching between materia? maybe there will be entire sets you can save so you don't have to redo a particular setup? That would be nice.

 

[Jamaro85]

Why does Square hate turn-based combat so much now that they have to completely uproot the battle system from the original game?

On one hand I think they feel a need to modernize games and that people may feel the old battle system is one that is outdated.

But there is going to be so much hype for this game off of nostalgia alone, and as long as the rest of the game holds up I don't think lack of a "modern" combat system would kill sales from the crowd who never experienced FFVII.

 

[FusedAtoms]

It's kind of crazy to me that this is the most we've seen of this game since that gameplay.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Nice.

 

[Galactic Specter]

So when they release it, are they just gonna call it FFVII: Remake Disc One?

 

[Stereogatari]

Is it going to have a turn based mode as well?

 

[Socivol]

These make me even more confused about how this game is going to play. I really wish they would have just stuck to the turn based combat and added the new story elements they would like to add. I really enjoyed FFXV's combat but that was an original game built around it, I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about playing something familiar in such an unfamiliar way.

 

[YankeeDonB]

FFXV is fun. Kingdom Hearts is fun. Lightning Returns was great from a combat POV even if the rest of the game was meh.

They know how to make good action RPG gameplay. Not always perfect on all fronts, but they've done plenty of good action RPGs.

...

Agreed - I like turn based too, but SE has made plenty of fun and interesting hybrid action systems. They're not platinum tight, but they tend to have tactical depth for those willing to look for it.

 

[Zasa]

Very wet.

I concur

 

[Lights and Waves]

These are beautiful. Wow!

 

[Koutsoubas]

I cry with tears of joy and pain

 

[Cloud7]

I'm not going to over-analyze these screenshots. I'm going to just digest them and enjoy that the game is still real. I'm patient and will give them as much time as needed to make this work.

 

[Elfstruck]

Why does Square hate turn-based combat so much now that they have to completely uproot the battle system from the original game?

Because its an outdated system. People like to hack and slash nowdays instead of the turn base approach. I dont blame them.

 

[KiraXD]

Because its an outdated system. People like to hack and slash nowdays instead of the turn base approach. I dont blame them.

yeah i kinda prefer ARPGs especially in this day and age... having direct control of the action feels more natural for these kinds of RPGs rather than a menu clicking/timing type thing. I mean... this is supposed to be a modern REMAKE, not a remaster.

I think that if FFVII uses a system similar to FFXV itll be perfect. (and with Wait mode, turn based fans and action fans will both be satisfied imo) all they need to do is change FFXV's "techniques command menu", with "change character" and it would be perfect. being able to hot swap characters on the fly rather than just issuing a command would be amazing. (i really really hope they do this)

 

[sixteen-bit]

weird dithering

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

Until episode 1 releases

Spoiler

kill me

I can't look at these screenshots as anything but a dream. I don't know if that makes waiting better or worse. What I really want to see are the slums, show me a smaller moment from ff7 other then the opening and let me see how much love is put into it.

 

[tokenflipguy]

Looking good I hope we do see the first episode this year.

 

[Hentailover]

Why does Square hate turn-based combat so much now that they have to completely uproot the battle system from the original game?

It's not just Square. Turn based is basically non existent outside of retro looking smaller games. It has to do with how much of an abstraction turn based system is. Seeing characters stand there, trading hits in some sort of rigid formation is easier to sell visually when it's simplistic graphisc, but when it's high tech realistic presentation, it starts to look... off. Look at ff13 and how it had to basically be a cooldown based realtime system, a logical progression of ATB (on paper, to clarify before you all lynch me), with lots of real time aspects muddying the whole thing, which for the most part where there to obfuscate the artificality of highly realistic human beings just standing there waiting for their turns, by adding lots of idle activity, like moving around aimlessly and such...

Making a turn based RPG with high budget final fantasy production qualitys at our level of tech is like taking cod graphics and making a 2d side scrolling platformer with them. It will just look bizarre, as the abstractions of the system collapse the illusion of reality.



You know, to provide some probable reasons outside "it no longer sells".
I guess the only way you can see a full AAA turn based game is xcom style ordeal, where immersion into abstract turn based mechanics is buffered by the cover based systems, that allow us to strecth the justficiation all the down time as just people staying in cover and such.

 

[Pachinko]

Looks like an actual in-engine shot which is a plus, I hope this game is real. After all the interviews from last month I got more than a little soured on the whole affair.

It still looks pretty early though ... although that early look at the HUD UI is promising , as much as I enjoyed the way FFXV worked I'd rather FF7R feels a little closer to say Crisis core and , without the multiple weapon using protagonist I imagine the magic use can feel a bit more robust.

It's also reassuring that they have a trailer ready , by the time E3 rolls around I suspect we'll have a pretty good new video and maybe even that playble demo of the first bit. I've lost hope in playing episode 1 in 2017 (in time for the 20th anniversary) but really I'm naively hopeful it will make 2018.

 

[brandonh83]

Looking good I hope we do see the first episode this year.

 

[Sakujou]

i cant see the pics, any mirrors?

 

[HeeHo]

Why does Square hate turn-based combat so much now that they have to completely uproot the battle system from the original game?

The company probably think it'll sell more if it's action oriented. I also can't see Nomura being on board with that, even though I think an extremely flashy, yet fast, turn-based system would be plenty of fun to play.

You could even introduce some real-time elements like timed blocking and whatnot.

 

[paolo11]

Lol


But in all seriousness, I'm glad we get new screenshots about this game. Hopefully more news for ff7 remake

 

[lightchris]

It's not just Square. Turn based is basically non existent outside of retro looking smaller games. It has to do with how much of an abstraction turn based system is. Seeing characters stand there, trading hits in some sort of rigid formation is easier to sell visually when it's simplistic graphisc, but when it's high tech realistic presentation, it starts to look... off. Look at ff13 and how it had to basically be a cooldown based realtime system, a logical progression of ATB (on paper, to clarify before you all lynch me), with lots of real time aspects muddying the whole thing, which for the most part where there to obfuscate the artificality of highly realistic human beings just standing there waiting for their turns, by adding lots of idle activity, like moving around aimlessly and such...

That sounds like FF13 tried hard and failed. Maybe I misunderstood, but, I disagree. I think the battle system was pretty cool and fit well in a Final Fantasy game. A step up from FF12, even though the game was much more advanced graphically.
I'm sure they could come up with more ideas to make the game look "modern"* while still being turn based or ATB at heart.

*Not that I think this should be the most important thing. It shouldn't be "the game has to look cool, so lets try to make a battle system that supports that". It should be "let's make a cool battle system (in terms of the actual mechanics), then let's think about how we can sell it best visually". If you still come up with a genre standard real time system then - fine. But excluding the possibility of something different from the start makes me a little sad to be honest.

 

[Elfstruck]

yeah i kinda prefer ARPGs especially in this day and age... having direct control of the action feels more natural for these kinds of RPGs rather than a menu clicking/timing type thing. I mean... this is supposed to be a modern REMAKE, not a remaster.

Yep. This is exactly how I feel. I want to experience the environment around me while battling the enemies.

 

[HeeHo]

Yep. This is exactly how I feel. I want to experience the environment around me while battling the enemies.

Eh, you could still have that. I think you could have ATB where you can freely move but can't attack until your turn came up.

I don't think that turn-based combat should be just dismissed as something that is old and can't be used again. I'm not against the real-time combat here but I'd be pretty disappointed if it felt like XV, but I doubt that will be the case. I think I will be disappointed too if it just feels like Kingdom Hearts but with an FF7 skin.

Still, I am pretty damn excited about this, but I'd be thrilled if they really tried to soup up the old formula instead of trying to make the gameplay almost entirely different. FF7's gameplay holds up pretty well for an old game and I think it's thanks to the overall game balance that it remains fun to play.

Hopefully they really have found a way to balance between the desires of both people. I'd prefer to play it as a turn-based game if possible but I hope they don't just try to throw in an FFXV wait mode and call it a day.

 

[Whompa02]

Looks pretty work in progress-y...

 

[JP]

Although it does look very to the original in many many ways I do like that it's undoubtedly Final Fantasy VII tonally, for me there's no mistaking that it still feels the same.

It would be nice if they could work in a UI that was closer to the original, without obscuring half the screen though.

 

[Death Penalty]

Yep. This is exactly how I feel. I want to experience the environment around me while battling the enemies.

My biggest thing is that it allows for more interesting interaction with the enemies that you're fighting, and more personality in your own abilities. For example, people are seeing these targets on the ground that likely indicate some kind of boss area of effect attack. This is something you actually have to play around and pay attention to. It turns an attack that in a turn-based system probably would have amounted to "this attack deals some extra damage" to "this attack peppers the arena with multiple danger zones that must be dodged or countered".

Likewise, all of your own abilities now have a third dimension to be considered. Using Kingdom Hearts as an example, the varying options change up a spell like Blizzard from an effect that deals ice damage to an effect that deals ice damage in a shotgun-shaped spread in front of you, or that makes Thunder a good choice for larger groups of enemies. It just seems more interesting to me, although I do understand the complaints of the turn-based faithful. I used to be one of them not so long ago.

 

[Wolf Akela]

My beef with the transition to real time is that there would be less strategy involved. It's just the nature of the format. Real time means you have less time to devise a strategy, so you have to design the game around players having very small windows to adapt. This also means you have far less control of teammates.

It's either you rely on programming teammates (XII), or crap AI (countless ARPGs), or have full control where your allies sit around doing nothing unless you issue commands (SO3 manual mode).

I don't have a problem with real time because I love KH and Crisis Core. I just don't have any faith with Square designing ARPGs with allies involved.

 

[rayman1900]

It turns an attack that in a turn-based system probably would have amounted to "this attack deals some extra damage" to "this attack peppers the arena with multiple danger zones that must be dodged or countered".

I liked in Strategy JRPG like Valkyria Chronicles they announced an attack that would strike in this area in that number of turns and in your turn you had to move your unit out of it before it would activate the next turn. I would probably see a FF doing that in the future if they want to do an hybrid combat system !

 

[How About No]

I feel like a hypocrite for not minding the gameplay changes in this, but I'll blow my lid if the Resident Evil 2 Remake is anything but classic style

 

[Quonny]

Gameplay looks like it'll be like the Neptunia games but with more interesting interactions with the environment and ATB instead of straight up turns.

For those that don't know, when it's your turn, you move your character to a spot, choose an action and go. Enemies do the same on their turn. So positioning is important.

 

[Pinky]

Looking good!

 

[Philippo]

So when they release it, are they just gonna call it FFVII: Remake Disc One?

Ahah yeeeessss, i'd love this one, very nostalgic!

 

[DangerMouse]

Looks great!

E3.

Yup.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Command menu?

ATB bar?

Thank god. Was worried we'd get some DMC bullshit.

 

[anaron]

Lol it looks expectedly awful. All the character and atmosphere is totally gone.

 

[Insane Metal]

weird dithering

Temporal AA.

 

[Deepwater]

I don't mind this being FFVII: FFXV Edition (or the other way around)

I enjoy XV's system, and I actually don't mind it becoming sort of the new standard of game mechanics like we sort of saw with the ABS and it's derivatives.

 

[How About No]

rong thred

 

[KrawlMan]

Looks good, but certainly not pushing the limits of PS4 good. Hopefully this means a good experience across all platforms. Honestly based on these screens I could even imagine a version running on Switch

 

[Death Penalty]

I liked in Strategy JRPG like Valkyria Chronicles they announced an attack that would strike in this area in that number of turns and in your turn you had to move your unit out of it before it would activate the next turn. I would probably see a FF doing that in the future if they want to do an hybrid combat system !

This is the sort of revitalization that turn-based needs in my opinion. Take cues from things like VC or FFT and then blow it up to mainline proportions. Incorporate real strategy and tactical considerations, and not the "strategy" you see in most turn-based standing in a weird line RPG systems.

 

[TRUE ORDER]

Looking good I hope we do see the first episode this year.

Very unlikely, hopefully next year.

 

[saturnine]

It's not just Square. Turn based is basically non existent outside of retro looking smaller games. It has to do with how much of an abstraction turn based system is. Seeing characters stand there, trading hits in some sort of rigid formation is easier to sell visually when it's simplistic graphisc, but when it's high tech realistic presentation, it starts to look... off. Look at ff13 and how it had to basically be a cooldown based realtime system, a logical progression of ATB (on paper, to clarify before you all lynch me), with lots of real time aspects muddying the whole thing, which for the most part where there to obfuscate the artificality of highly realistic human beings just standing there waiting for their turns, by adding lots of idle activity, like moving around aimlessly and such...

Making a turn based RPG with high budget final fantasy production qualitys at our level of tech is like taking cod graphics and making a 2d side scrolling platformer with them. It will just look bizarre, as the abstractions of the system collapse the illusion of reality.



You know, to provide some probable reasons outside "it no longer sells".
I guess the only way you can see a full AAA turn based game is xcom style ordeal, where immersion into abstract turn based mechanics is buffered by the cover based systems, that allow us to strecth the justficiation all the down time as just people staying in cover and such.

The only fundamental requisite of turn based combat is that the action has to stop to provide the player time to think about their immediate next move and overall strategy at their own pace. Nothing else is mandatory (characters standing in line, etc.)
Resonance of Fate is a good example of how flashy a turn based game can look. FFXV had the right idea with wait mode, though it seriously half assed its implementation (and made it almost meaningless due to a lack of full party control).

You're right that FFXIII's battle system can be seen as a logical evolution of the ATB system, but by speeding up the pace so much it sacrificed the opportunity for the player to clearly assess what's going on in the battle (the ridiculously high damage numbers also didn't help). They tried to provide challenge by requiring a fast execution speed, but I think that it's also possible to provide challenge by reducing the pace of a battle and instead providing more, deeper strategies, like using environmental elements (something that the series has dabbled with for a long time, without ever really expanding meaningfully on the idea).

My biggest thing is that it allows for more interesting interaction with the enemies that you're fighting, and more personality in your own abilities. For example, people are seeing these targets on the ground that likely indicate some kind of boss area of effect attack. This is something you actually have to play around and pay attention to. It turns an attack that in a turn-based system probably would have amounted to "this attack deals some extra damage" to "this attack peppers the arena with multiple danger zones that must be dodged or countered".

Likewise, all of your own abilities now have a third dimension to be considered. Using Kingdom Hearts as an example, the varying options change up a spell like Blizzard from an effect that deals ice damage to an effect that deals ice damage in a shotgun-shaped spread in front of you, or that makes Thunder a good choice for larger groups of enemies. It just seems more interesting to me, although I do understand the complaints of the turn-based faithful. I used to be one of them not so long ago.

None of the combat situations that you talked about are exclusive to action games. In fact, I would say that a turn based battle system would give the possibility for the devs to offer even deeper variations of these scenarios, given that the player wouldn't have to react instantly to the threats and instead take the time to think ahead.

 

[Death Penalty]

None of the combat situations that you talked about are exclusive to action games. In fact, I would say that a turn based battle system would give the possibility for the devs to offer even deeper variations of these scenarios, given that the player wouldn't have to react instantly to the threats and instead take the time to think ahead.

If you're talking about elevating turn-based combat to true 3D arenas with movement, environment, enemy size, etc. all considered, you're preaching to the choir. My response is for people who want the "traditional" turn-based experience of standing in a line taking turns. This, to me, is the opposite of depth.

EDIT: I would also add, I suppose, that without the action elements something like what the Guard Scorpion is doing in that shot loses a lot of meaning. Let's take Final Fantasy Tactic's battle system as an example and say that your players have a movement and an action available to them every turn. The Guard Scorpions' placing markers on the ground isn't an interesting interaction without an element of reflex involved, because painting a marker on the floor that only an idiot will continue to stand in doesn't have any real effect on the player. They'll move out of it. You require a further level to lend that sort of thing meaning, like giving the Guard Scorpion a stun or bind that must be remedied or something of that nature, where an action scenario already has that interesting decision-making process just by virtue of requiring you to dodge or guard in a set timeframe.

I mean, I guess you probably already know there are merits to action and turn-based over each other but I like these discussions.

 

[JC Lately]

Worked in FFXV.

Did it though? Did it really?

 

[blankslatenator]

I'm going to assume that since you can take cover from fire, that you can switch out materia on the fly and is a necessary mechanic, maybe similar to Witcher 3 potion system.