Support NeoGAF

[Grampa Simpson]

I weighed having 2 screens vs 1, then I also factor how Nintendo may impliment future revisisons for the "DS2" (like phat to lite to DSi to XL) and I also think about how the ergonomic arrangements of how the unit is held/played and that's just beyond the screen(s) size, resolution & aspect ratio. If the DS2 has one screen or two screens (that somehow "combine") and the aspect ratio fits to a 16:9 standerd than an HDMI port makes sense for scaling to an HDTV, but if it doesn't (and they're not aiming the device to be a hybrid of any type) then neither an HDMI port nor Tegra is needed/likely.

The appears to be a great platform for a portable video game system. Don't be so myopic about all the features in it's chipset. It has a full blown h.264 encoder - that doesn't mean that it needs to also be a camcorder.

Grinding was just an example...an example that I also put in quotes...this isn't an argument for or against the gameplay mechanic of grinding, but rather how something LIKE grinding could be done on the go but the more story-based or "main" game could be played at home, in comfort and in a home theater cinematic set-up.

I was just expressing my dislike for pointless grinding.

So far, it seems Nintendo has avoided that type of "connectivity" between the DS & Wii on purpose. I don't see them switching gears on that now...sure there's some light experimentation with Wario DIY also as a (gallery only) Wii Channel, but nothing to the level of the GBA & GCN connectivity attempts last generation. And I'm suggesting something beyond just connectivity...more along the lines of one game that has both the (the at home & on the go) game "modes" in them. Granted, this wouldn't be for all games, just where it makes sense. I do not disagree with you about common API's, but that sorta is a blanket statement...what I've suggested before with the hybrid (or better exmple, the universal format) is that the portable would be Tegra 2 based while the home console would be Tegra 3...but this is all assuming the Tegra rumors hold water. And if they don't then the hybrid concept I've suggested particularly seems way less likely for Nintendo to do...but the universal format could still come to fruition, for certain games.

The connectivity between the GBA and Gamecube is precisely why we're not seeing much connectivity between the Wii and the DS. It was a move designed to boost sales of both platforms and it fell flat in that regard. It's an option that's probably been open to developers since Nintendo started serving DS demos via the Wii. The other thing you seem to be stuck on is the idea that the two product lines will eventually merge. This is something that doesn't make sense for two big reasons:
1) If Nintendo were to do this, they'd lose what little product diversity they have. The Gameboy line brought Nintendo through some very tough times. If the two had been combined into a single product line at that point, Nintendo may not have survived.
2) The practical considerations.
A) Backwards Compatibility becomes a problem because you're working with two different CPU families. You either have to double up on the CPUs for one, or make one massively more powerful than it's previous iteration in order to maintain backwards compatibility. Backwards compatibility is a powerful tool as it acts as a great security blanket for people unsure about making the upgrade.
B) Cartridges or DVDs? Do we make the handheld accept 5 inch DVDs (and carts for backwards compatibility) or do we make the home console rely on small and relatively expensive cartridges for it's media while including a DVD drive for compatibility? Neither seems to be an appealing solution.

The case for combining the two product lines is just not there for any point in the short to medium range. Fifteen years down the line it may be different, but for the foreseeable future it would be insane for Nintendo to try and combine them.

With the DS2 likely to be a leap to GCN (or even a Wii+ since the Wii is just a GCN+ and the screen would be portable) and the Wii was "held back" with the next one possibly not being way beyond the current generation HD consoles...I really do think many games could look/play somewhat similarly in either a portable or at home "modes". The at home console mode obviously looking better, but not so much that the game couldn't share basic similarities in portable mode.

And then they have to still make two versions of the game assets. The best that they can share is code, and in that case, a shared API is just as practical.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Therefore, a Japan-first launch of DS2 followed by a staggered release in NA / EU / AUS / NZ seems to be on the cards.

Relevant to point out that that's pretty much what they've been doing with the last few DS iterations. Release them for the holidays in Japan, while the old model is still doing crazy elsewhere.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

bmf...
You seem to be stuck on only one limited view of a hybrid (and not even the one I'm presenting) in saying that the system would need a disc drive and/or "expensive" carts.

You also keep saying shared API's (which I don't disagree with) as if it were a magic word without further explaining what you mean.

If you haven't been paying attention to my posting since I re-entered this thread durring GDC...I'm basically conceding the hybrid theory for the time being...meaning, I still have it in my mind, but I'm more open to Nintendo doing something else instead just in case I'm wrong. And if the "one platform" or "universal format" or "hybrid console/portable" idea(s) aren't Nintendo's (selling point) "hook" for their next DS (or Wii) then it's gotta be something else on the interface side (not just more power & better A/V).

In regards to backwords compatibility...the next portable is a no-brainer it'll be B/C with the most popular system of all time to help it...but with the Wii's successor, I dunno. DVD's and just disc's/disc drives in general add a bunch of problems that they can weed out by dropping hardware B/C. I know it sounds crazy, but my logic for this is under 3 points that make sense:
1) the problems mentioned above that come with disc's/disc drives
2) weeding out the limiting hardware (and piracy problems that would come with) keeping in Wii B/C while also weeding out old shovelware disc's on the current Wii (but offering the better games on VC for download)
3) the current Wii by this time (I'm thinking 2012 at the earliest) would still be offered as a cheaper stand-alone system at much better entry-level price

To compensate for the lack of Wii disc B/C they could offer:
1) the greatest hit Wii games for download on VC
2) DS B/C instead (this would be especially big in Japan)...think, GB Player only with DS games
3) the new (holo card) format would be open to universal games (certain games that work on either the next portable or the next console) which would be seen as a value to consumers (I can play the same game card on my portable or on my TV) and publishers (I can sell 1 sku to *both* markets)

 

[evangd007]

In regards to backwords compatibility...the next portable is a no-brainer it'll be B/C with the most popular system of all time to help it...but with the Wii's successor, I dunno. DVD's and just disc's/disc drives in general add a bunch of problems that they can weed out by dropping hardware B/C. I know it sounds crazy, but my logic for this is under 3 points that make sense:
1) the problems mentioned above that come with disc's/disc drives
2) weeding out the limiting hardware (and piracy problems that would come with) keeping in Wii B/C while also weeding out old shovelware disc's on the current Wii (but offering the better games on VC for download)
3) the current Wii by this time (I'm thinking 2012 at the earliest) would still be offered as a cheaper stand-alone system at much better entry-level price

To compensate for the lack of Wii disc B/C they could offer:
1) the greatest hit Wii games for download on VC
2) DS B/C instead (this would be especially big in Japan)...think, GB Player only with DS games
3) the new (holo card) format would be open to universal games (certain games that work on either the next portable or the next console) which would be seen as a value to consumers (I can play the same game card on my portable or on my TV) and publishers (I can sell 1 sku to *both* markets)

The point of B/C is that your old games automatically work on the new console. That is what mitigates the risk of releasing the new console. When you have to rebuy stuff you already own in order to play it in the exact same way as before, people revolt (see the PSP Go for details).

This is all beside the point that a hybrid would be a bad idea to begin with. Software for consoles and software for portables have subtle differences that make them successful on either format, but not necessarily both. For example, portable games are not well-suited for prolonged play periods due to the fact that one generally uses them on the go when they may have to stop at any time for whatever reason. PSP software tried to be (and in some cases literally were) PS2 games, and that was a contributing factor to the DS stomping it in sales. Input methods are also restricted between portables and consoles. A remote/nunchuck combo would not work well on a portable, and at the same time stylus controls would be out of place on a console. Dual screens also translates poorly to the home (see the Wii version of FFCC: Echoes of Time).

There are far too many logistical hurdles to overcome for your idea to work. Never mind the fact that merging the Wii and DS lines has no monetary advantage for Nintendo. When the Wii and DS sells like no tomorrow, often to the same users, why would Nintendo want to get only 1 sale where they could get 2?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Fortunately, in a world where X360 has been available at $200 since 2008, $300 or less for new tech in 2011 or later doesn't mean GCN x 1.6.

Agreed. Making the leap to slightly post PS360 levels may be a very advantageous move for Nintendo to do quickly - 2011/12 - as it will allow them to catch 3rd party's support for multiplatform games of that level. At the same time, Sony and MS are kind of stuck with their current systems by a couple of factors - chiefly the resistance they'd get from 3rd parties, followed by their current gen relaunches with motion control that are happening this year, and lastly by simple cost of launching a new generation. Finally, Nintendo has a huge momentum that they would be wise to carry somewhere. In two years they'll be at what has been the nominal saturation point for a home console in the US with the Wii. I suspect that they'll be somewhere similar in Europe, and while they won't be there in Japan, they'll have surpassed it with the DS. The time to move on is soon. If they can't carry that momentum into a new system, then someone else will be likely to take it.

Here's my handy-dandy chart of all the different imaginings of next-gen Nintendo that we tend to talk about:

1) WiiV2 - Minor Update - Nothing new for developers. Fixes small issues.  Adds more flash.
2) Wii+ - Minor Update - Renders in HD - Games are forwards and backwards compatible to the Wii.  The only new thing for developers is the higher rendering resolution.
3) Super Wii - Middle upgrade - Hits a spot between the Wii and the PS360 capability wise.  New games are not necessarily backwards compatible.
4) WiiHD - Full upgrade to around the capability level of the PS360.  Same memory (or slightly more) and possibly a better GPU than the PS360.
5) Super WiiHD - Generational jump past the PS360.

I think there's a very slight possibility that we might see WiiV2 this year, and a strong possibility that we'll see a WiiHD in 2011 or 2012. I would be disappointed by Wii+ or Super Wii, and I think neither would be a strong way to take things forward. I think that Nintendo will have a very hard time taking the section of the market that Sony and MS currently have a hold on, and I think it would be russian roulette for them to make a lock-step generational transition with the other two. The best that they can do in that regard (at the moment) is to try and make their next system an attractive target for multiplatform releases while all the systems are at the same capability level. If they do that, they may be able to talk 3rd parties into holding back with them instead of taking the leap with MS and Sony (if) when they make their next generational leap. They have no immediate way of taking back that section of the market, but they may be able to become a fairly equal participant.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

You also keep saying shared API's (which I don't disagree with) as if it were a magic word without further explaining what you mean.

API stands for Application Programing Interface. Shared APIs means that you write the code once, then compile it twice. Most modern programming is done in high level languages that can compile to many target architectures. The harder part is the API. The API is how the game software interfaces with all the hardware features like the GPU, the sound hardware, the network interface (hopefully all of them are using the same API for sockets now), and for the controller interface. The API also governs how programs interact with the host OS. A shared API means that you still have to compensate for the difference in capability between the systems, but you don't have to rewrite your code for a different GPUs and sound solutions. The standard for 3D GPU interface is OpenGL. Of course Microsoft uses DirectX instead. I'm not sure what API Sony and Nintendo offer. I'm sure a large amount of the cost of making PS360 games multiplatform is the cost of writing the code for two different GPU APIs - although that is probably mitigated in a lot of cases by things like Unreal Engine.

One of the things that was always hemmed and hawed over about Half-life was why it was never ported to MacOS or Linux when the Quake engine was obviously portable. The answer was that many of the modifications that Valve made to the Quake engine were Win32 specific, and that it wouldn't be worthwhile to do so for a single game if it were looked at from the point of view of a cost/benefit standpoint.

The point is, that if the APIs are shared, then porting becomes that much easier. I for one hope that by the time the next generation rolls around all of the big players will at least be standardized on OpenGL.... well.... except maybe MS.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I actually think a Super Wii is most likely.

It seems to jive better with Nintendo's strategy and Iwata's mindset. Just enough graphics to make the games they want to make with just enough held back to keep their own costs low, and a big middle finger to third parties.

 

[charlequin]

Can someone here tell me why on Earth Nintendo would be interested in releasing a sequel to the DS when the original is still selling like crazy?

Every successful system ever in the history of gaming was replaced while it was still selling extremely well.

I actually think a Super Wii is most likely.

This is quite literally the first time I have ever thought you said something unreasonable or likely to be inaccurate on this forum. :O

 

[GamerZero]

Thing is, the NDS is NOT selling like crazy anymore...in Japan. Still selling well, but not "like crazy". And it seems like a smart move to release a new system when your old one still isnt completely dead, to keep people in touch with "your" product.

Also, let´s stop talking about Wii2. It´ll feature 3D-visors, kinda obvious at this point

Spoiler

if we all say so it´ll come true! :/

Good point about DS sales in Japan. This is the main reason I think if DS2 gets released late this year it will be a Japanese launch only. From what I've been reading hasn't PSP been outselling the DS in Japan lately?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I actually think a Super Wii is most likely.

It seems to jive better with Nintendo's strategy and Iwata's mindset. Just enough graphics to make the games they want to make with just enough held back to keep their own costs low, and a big middle finger to third parties.

I think it depends on motivation. If they want to try and bring the 3rd parties back, they'll meet or slightly beat the PS360. If they aren't going to care, then they'll do whatever they fell like doing. We'll have to have our differing opinions.

 

[Panda1]

They have said just HD is not enough for a new console - so they would have to combine with some new tech. I dont see anything for at least 3 years

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Every successful system ever in the history of gaming was replaced while it was still selling extremely well.



This is quite literally the first time I have ever thought you said something unreasonable or likely to be inaccurate on this forum. :O

At this point it's all guesswork, really.

Nintendo could do more than one of those things or none at all.

 

[GamerZero]

I :lol when people actually think Nintendo will wait until 2012 to release a next-gen DS successor.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Nintendo could do more than one of those things or none at all.

Not that it impacts it's likeliness, but that would be rather disappointing.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Also I want to clarify something.

When I said "keep their own costs low", I didn't mean on hardware. They could easily get 360-level hardware out at a good profit. But what after? Have games of that technological level come down in production costs at the same level as hardware has?

It cuts in to Nintendo's profits if, say, Mario Galaxy 3 sells the same as the first one but costs twice as much to make. Their marquee titles would improve in quality, but risky titles like Captain Rainbow might be less likely.

Or not! Maybe game production costs will go hella down.

 

[Chittagong]

With this recent evidence, I'm concluding that there is an inverse correlation between wordcount in Dr. Gakman's posts and months to go before a new console/handheld generation.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Also I want to clarify something.

When I said "keep their own costs low", I didn't mean on hardware. They could easily get 360-level hardware out at a good profit. But what after? Have games of that technological level come down in production costs at the same level as hardware has?

It cuts in to Nintendo's profits if, say, Mario Galaxy 3 sells the same as the first one but costs twice as much to make. Their marquee titles would improve in quality, but risky titles like Captain Rainbow might be less likely.

Or not! Maybe game production costs will go hella down.

This is the same thing that I talk about when I talk about cost as well. Once you're below the leading edge the hardware cost difference isn't that great.

As far as keeping their software production costs down, I think Nintendo can manage that by continuing to stick with interesting art styles rather than pseudo-realism. I don't know what that says for titles like Zelda in the next generation though.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

With this recent evidence, I'm concluding that there is an inverse correlation between wordcount in Dr. Gakman's posts and months to go before a new console/handheld generation.

It's a shame that the search feature is disabled. It would be fun to do a post history on him once the reveal happens. Or most of us even. I know that my opinion has changed a few times over the last couple of years.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I actually think a Super Wii is most likely.

It seems to jive better with Nintendo's strategy and Iwata's mindset. Just enough graphics to make the games they want to make with just enough held back to keep their own costs low, and a big middle finger to third parties.

I think it will be more like a WiiHD and come around 2012. I could see it having as much as 4x the RAM as the PS360, with a cpu/gpu slightly more capable than those two machines, but designed with some of the advances of the last 5 years or so in engineering. The 360 is already selling for $200 bare bones, and Nintendo does not need to be as conservative as they were going into this generation. They lowered the graphics this gen out of financial necessity.

All the talk on Nintendo having a philosophy of not needing good graphics is hogwash. Look at Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros, Metroid, etc. They are aware that there are times when graphics matter as well as times when graphics don't matter as much. That being said, a machine about twice as powerful as PS360 would be directly in line with even their most conservative approach, as exhibited with the Wii. Anyone expecting less is not looking at the evidence.

 

[charlequin]

At this point it's all guesswork, really.

Nintendo could do more than one of those things or none at all.

Damn you for being so reasonable.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I really hope Nintendo gets current with sound one day.

They're not even last-gen level at this point.

 

[selig]

I really hope Nintendo gets current with sound one day.

They're not even last-gen level at this point.

I assume 3D-visors would have built-in surround sound

Spoiler

Could you maybe write something that makes it sound reasonable that Nintendo might release their next system with 3D-visors? I guess if you cant, noone can :/

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I really hope Nintendo gets current with sound one day.

They're not even last-gen level at this point.

I think most people use the stereo speakers that are built into their TVs. Their next system should include HDMI, and as long as you can get your audio off of that, it should rather improve things.

 

[Black-Wind]

They have said just HD is not enough for a new console - so they would have to combine with some new tech. I dont see anything for at least 3 years

There are shit tons of things that are not up to par on the current Wii other then not being able to do HD (which, with that thought being the driving point alone for a WiiHD, could simply mean a "Wii that plays just well ENUFF for basic HD but is still massively under the power levels of the HD twins". Pretty much Wii+ on BMF's list).

No one should expect Nintendo to JUST make a Wii that can do some HD when theres other things that should be addressed which could warrant some kind of "Wii HD".

 

[charlequin]

I really hope Nintendo gets current with sound one day.

Sadly, I think the number of people who actually care about and implement good sound systems for their TV setups makes the number of people who actually hook their consoles up via the right cables look huge.

I mean, I'm part of the problem here. I have my consoles hooked up via component and everything, but my sound is just the TV speakers. :lol

 

[Vanpira]

Also I want to clarify something.

When I said "keep their own costs low", I didn't mean on hardware. They could easily get 360-level hardware out at a good profit. But what after? Have games of that technological level come down in production costs at the same level as hardware has?

It cuts in to Nintendo's profits if, say, Mario Galaxy 3 sells the same as the first one but costs twice as much to make. Their marquee titles would improve in quality, but risky titles like Captain Rainbow might be less likely.

Or not! Maybe game production costs will go hella down.

Nintendo doesn't budget games by how much they think they will sell. They budget them by what they want to accomplish.

Captain Rainbow would cost as much to make on the Wii as it would on a Super Computer that could render real life in real time. The team would have been the same size and it would have been make in the same amount of time.

If you want to talk budget for big games look at Zelda. Zelda Wii will have an "HD size" budget by the time it is done, and it will probably only sell around as much as Twilight Princess. Nintendo has already had games that do that, it didn't stop Captain Rainbow from being made the first time so why would it next gen?

If Miyamoto and his teams believe they need hardware of a certain power to make the games they come up with, that will be the power of the next Wii.

If they want to make games on a smaller budget they will have smaller teams and tighter deadlines. They won't limit the power of the hardware for that reason, however if they don't think they will use that power that's another matter.

I personally don't think they will bother to upgrade unless it was more powerful then the Xbox360 as they would want to keep the hardware for as long as they could. The more powerful the hardware the longer they would have until they hit a hurdle they can't jump, for the games they can make.

The Wii was a small upgrade to the Gamecube because Miyamoto thought there was much more they could do with the Gamecube hardware and they wanted a seamless start for this gen. They could also release their left over Gamecube games on the Wii without hassle. It was the same chipset so they didn't even need to port them as they already ran on the hardware.

None of those would apply to the new hardware. The upgrade would only happen when they wanted to move past the Wii hardware so they wouldn't(and couldn't as the Wii's graphics chip can't render in HD) reuse the chipset. If they can't reuse the cipset then the other things can't be done either. With this they have no reason to go with low power hardware.

That's not to say I think they will go cutting edge, just that it will be closer to modern than not.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

evangd007...
Yes, I had (keyword, if you were paying attention to my last couple of posts) the idea of a console/portable hybrid and I still have that idea in the back of my head, but it's more on the back-burner with the universal media being more of the forefront of what I think Nintendo will do. At least with a lot of the games that it makes sense to do that with:
-VC titles
-certain RPG's and other traditional games that could work in either portable or home "modes"
-games with mini-games/side-quests for on-the-go play while the "main" game is played at-home

However, I will asert that consumers WOULD see the value in buying one game that could be played on their portable or their home console and that publishers would also see the benefit selling one game to TWO markets (contrary to your thoughts on there being no "gain" for Nintendo to have such a business plan).

bmf...
I'm not knocking your "next-gen Wii" chart at all, as it's a good reference...but the first 3 aren't "next-gen" as they would be launching at a timeframe and/or power-level that doesn't merit them as anything more than a half-assed mid-gen bump. The competition would love Nintendo to do 1, 2 or 3 because they can further sell the lie of a: "10yr plan" excluding Nintendo as they'd be losing focus, re-entering the red ocean (#1, #2 & #3) and starting over in user-base/marketshare (#2 & #3)...not to mention it would give them a "jump to next-gen" card free. These first 3 just seem assinine in many ways as they'd be confusing to the consumers, developers and the market as a whole. I've always stood by the idea that part of the ease/charm of the Wii is that there's only ONE basic sku with NOA even being reluctant to release even just the black Wii here!

4 & 5 would be way closer to reality...but...not as soon as most would think (2012 at the earliest) regardless of what Pachter (#4) is suggesting. I think the 2012 timing (after such time that Natal/Move fail on their promise of bringing in new consumers to X360/PS3) will be in line with the competition's next-gen moves. And if it's a 2012 or later launch, it might as well be #5 to make the jump more worthwhile and longer lasting. I say later (which seems proposterous to most people that the current Wii as-is would last to 2012) because Nintendo traditionally isn't the one to jump to next-gen first, especially when in the lead and when they could milk the Wii for all it's worth to ride this generation out. However, the DS broke tradition strategically against the PSP, so that's what makes me think 2012...to be preimptive against X720/PS4 (~2012-2014~).

Neither 4 or 5 really take into account what would be "beyond just HD" that Reggie & Iwata talk about though...which is probably the most exciting/important factors when trying to predict/speculate on Nintendo's future. I presented the idea that maybe a radical business approach (hybrid console/portable or universal format) would be how Nintendo would "disrupt themselves", but I'm open to being wrong that this would be the main "hook" and that the selling point would be more along the interface lines...I just don't know what it'd be yet...

I do think Nintendo would tout the (2010 Japan, 2011 WW) DS2 gameplay mechanic of being able to "touch you back" beyond just the power/feature/graphics set it would have. This technology would be the pressure sensitive & vibration feedback in the DS2's touchscreen allowing the player to apply different pressures and "feel" different textures, patterns or even "buttons" on the screen. As far the Wii2 goes...I do think a new sensor bar/Wiimote combo will be in order with the new bar having WiiSpeak and a camera (for augmented reality & perspective head tracking) standerd with every system and the new Wiimote having WM+, VS, wireless chuck (that's attachable in horizontal mode), 4 face buttons, shoulder buttons (in horizontal mode), better force feedback, better speaker, a VMU-like screen, more internal RAM for storage, pedometer & rechargable battery all built-in

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

good lord

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Sadly, I think the number of people who actually care about and implement good sound systems for their TV setups makes the number of people who actually hook their consoles up via the right cables look huge.

I mean, I'm part of the problem here. I have my consoles hooked up via component and everything, but my sound is just the TV speakers. :lol

All I'm asking for is an optical out. They can keep Dolby PLIIx forever for all I care. Even on my low-end system, the output is much cleaner via optical.

 

[Vizion28]

Nintendo is not going to release a Wii HD anytime soon. Oh why do some people entertain that idea when

1) Reggie and Iwata have stated that they simply won't go HD just for the sake HD there has to be some other "gimmick" attached to it.

2) The masses simply don't care that much for HD. At least they don't care enough to deter them from buying a Wii making it the fastest selling console ever.

3) Nintendo has never released an graphical upgrade version of a console. Never in their 20+ years in the console market.

4) Nintendo has never released another console within 4 years from the last.

5) Nintendo have higher profit margins with SD software and hardware than they would with HD.

6) This is probably the biggest and should really be obvious (but oddly it's not): The Wii is still selling like... like a lot. They still can't keep up with demand.

Maybe you believe there will be a Wii HD soon because of wishful thinking? But hey if you want to keep dreaming go right ahead.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

DrGAKMAN:

The chart is more of a general reference so that we have a common reference point. It intentionally ignores what sorts of new innovation they may supply as I don't believe that any of us really have an inkling of what Nintendo has next in store. The intention is that the first two items on the chart list what Nintendo might do to please a crowd that wants a little more with their Wii. The first one is just really a bugfix revision plus a little more. The second is what I think is Pachter's Wii+. The 3rd is Nintendo wanting more capability, but still going their own way. The 4th is them appealing to 3rd parties in the hopes of establishing themselves as a viable alternative for the PS360 crowd, and the 5th is a far off fantasy that only makes sense if they decide to ride the Wii until it's a decade old.

I personally think that the 4th one is the one that we'll see, and it will be at the 5 or 6 year mark. I hesitate to guess what 'innovative' features they may have as I personally have been playing games for too long to really be one with their philosophy. The original intent of the Wii remote didn't even include a nun-chuk. That's a concession they made for the core gamers when Retro said that they couldn't work with just the Wiimote.

I think that they might advance the Wiimote technically, but they won't add buttons that they don't need to. I rather think that they'll make the controller more feature rich without adding to it's complexity. How they go about that is anybody's guess.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Nintendo is not going to release a Wii HD anytime soon. Oh why do some people entertain that idea when

1) Reggie and Iwata have stated that they simply won't go HD just for the sake HD there has to be some other "gimmick" attached to it.

One would think that they're neck deep into the conceptual design of their next 'gimmick' and that they have at least one prototype for their next generation hardware. Whatever it is, it's likely going to have an optical drive, some sort of storage, a GPU, a CPU, some memory, a network interface, and a bluetooth controller. Whatever the capability level of the new system is probably isn't terribly important to Nintendo on that particular basis. As long as their new gimmick talks bluetooth, it could be released for the current Wii or whatever the next generation is. The next generation itself is going to be strategy more than anything else.

And yes, of course part of this is wish fulfillment.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

How they go about that is anybody's guess.

Electrodes attached to testicles or nipples... maybe both!

*screams*

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Electrodes attached to testicles or nipples... maybe both!

*screams*

I was rather hoping for the testicles myself.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I was rather hoping for the testicles myself.

I have never been this aroused. My penis is a whole 2 1/2 inches right now!

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I have never been this aroused. My penis is a whole 2 1/2 inches right now!

I'm sure that someone is just quivering in anticipation.

 

[Diffense]

The original intent of the Wii remote didn't even include a nun-chuk. That's a concession they made for the core gamers when Retro said that they couldn't work with just the Wiimote.

That seems erroneous to me given that, IIRC, Zelda Twilight Princess Wii and Mario Galaxy both required the nunchuk attachment.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

That seems erroneous to me given that, IIRC, Zelda Twilight Princess Wii and Mario Galaxy both required the nunchuk attachment.

Google finds me this page

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Nunchuk

In one conference, it was stated that Retro Studios helped design the Nunchuk because the Remote on its own would not be able to play Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

Additionally, I remember that the core title that was used to show off the Wiimote to journalists at the initial unveiling around TGS in 2005 was Metroid Prime 2 with Wiimote controls tacked on. I'm sure that the article is still up on IGN somewhere.

 

[Tab0203]

http://wii.nintendo-europe.com/99.html

Miyamoto: The idea of connecting controllers spread very quickly, but the Nunchuk, which had such a strong impact when it was announced, was done much later.

Iwata: Would you please explain how the nunchuck-shaped controller was born? The one-handed controller alone was a very innovative idea, but I think it was very daring to have a different shaped controller in each hand, and to have them operated separately.

Ashida: I first heard about the idea for the Nunchuk from Takeda-san. He said, “can you try to make something like this?” There were also requests from the development teams for Metroid and other software titles asking for a new kind of controller that uses both hands, that can offer a new type of gameplay. And so, yet again, we started out by moulding another clay model. (laughs)

Takeda: This idea originally came from one of the young developers involved in the project I mentioned earlier, the one aimed at selling packaged peripherals with GameCube games.

Iwata: I can still vividly recall the look of anxiety on Mr Ashida's face when he showed me the Nunchuk. What was running through your mind at that time?

Ashida: Well, I thought it wouldn't fit well with the streamlined designs of the console and controller. At first, I also considered a design similar to that of the remote. But since it was so obvious that the right and left hands are used differently, I realized that making the designs similar would just make it harder to control. When I asked for Mr Takeda's advice, he reassured me that it was fine for them to be different since they would be used separately.

Iwata: Incidentally, the Nunchuk was also received very well overseas. So much so that the code name of Nunchuk became the official name almost overnight! (laughs)

 

[evangd007]

With regards to the pricing of this hypothetical new DS, does anyone agree with me in thinking that the purpose of the pricing of the DSiXL @ $190 compared to the DSi @ $170 is to test the waters and see if consumers will still buy at the higher price? You know, to get an idea of the price to launch the new DS at?

 

[m.i.s.]

With regards to the pricing of this hypothetical new DS, does anyone agree with me in thinking that the purpose of the pricing of the DSiXL @ $190 compared to the DSi @ $170 is to test the waters and see if consumers will still buy at the higher price? You know, to get an idea of the price to launch the new DS at?

I was thinking the same. Test the boundaries not only on price but also the size of the screen and the system too.

My personal indication is that the DS2 will have two 3.5" screens.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

All I'm asking for is an optical out. They can keep Dolby PLIIx forever for all I care. Even on my low-end system, the output is much cleaner via optical.

I felt this way two years ago, but I think I need more than that today.

 

[wRATH2x]

I seriously want a powerful Nintendo console, after playing some God Of War 3 I want a Zelda to have that graphical power.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I seriously want a powerful Nintendo console, after playing some God Of War 3 I want a Zelda to have that graphical power.

I don't care if it's powerful, I just want it in HD so the jaggies go away.

I don't mind low resolution textures, or a lack of bump mapping, or any of that crap. It's the jaggies that bother me. Hell, I would play N64 titles fine if there were no jaggies.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I seriously want a powerful Nintendo console, after playing some God Of War 3 I want a Zelda to have that graphical power.

Zelda might.

I feel like, even if we did get a powerful Nintendo console, not all games would necessarily take advantage of that power.

 

[jibblypop]

I don't care if it's powerful, I just want it in HD so the jaggies go away.

I thought I was the only one that thought this! The only thing that bothers me about the wii graphics is that it's not in HD resolution. Everything else doesn't get under my skin at all.

 

[JaseC]

I'm not sure what API Sony and Nintendo offer.

Don't know about Ninty, but Sony use OpenGL ES for the PS3.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Zelda might.

I feel like, even if we did get a powerful Nintendo console, not all games would necessarily take advantage of that power.

Yeah, Nintendo doesn't really develop games like a lot of other companies do.

For instance, a lot of developers will develop a foe in their game to look fierce, and you have to beat the shit out of it to kill it.

Nintendo on the other hands, make the enemies in their games from a more practical point of view.

The Goomba for instance. They move from left to right. If you touch it from either side, you die. But, if you jump on it's head, it'll die.

Same with the Koopa Troopa, just slightly different.

Some you can't kill because they have a spike on their head. So you have to find another way to beat it.

If Nintendo sees that one of their games doesn't require amazing graphics, they likely won't push for it. They'll make it look as good as it needs to, but they won't bump map everything and it's mother just because they can.

And honestly, I like that approach more. I found the bump mapping in Mario Galaxy was more attention grabbing, because it wasn't on "everything" like in most HD games.

 

[wsippel]

Don't know about Ninty, but Sony use OpenGL ES for the PS3.

Nintendo uses GX, which was inspired by GL (the IRIX 3D API that later became OpenGL). GX was designed by the GL team at Silicon Graphics, so similarities are to be expected.

 

[JaseC]

Nintendo uses GX, which was inspired by GL (the IRIX 3D API that later became OpenGL). GX was designed by the GL team at Silicon Graphics, so similarities are to be expected.

Certainly interesting!