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New revision of PS5 has hotter exhaust temps recorded
- Thread starter Dusktildawn48
- Start date
Evilms
Banned
he got grilled by himself
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JLB
Banned
my mbp17 overheats.
Venom Snake
Member
prinz_valium
Member
WTF is that useless video? I want my 2 minutes back
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Papacheeks
Banned
Daaamn, this guy sucks ass..
How this tool has over 5 millions subs is beyond me. Kid has no clue about anything beyond product knowledge, let alone he admits his OS experience doesnt go beyond Vista. To me auto fail if your going to be a tech youtuber.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
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ZywyPL
Banned
I only saw him once, when he was previewing the XSX year ago, needless to say MS' support are still trying to figure out how to give me back those 20min.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Not so sure we can take anything from a video where someone tears the system totally apart and changes to thermal paste vs Evans' video with 2 stock systems.
Again I will wait for a little better analysis from some real tech people on this.
saintjules
Member
Evilms
Banned
Loxus
Member
The videos still proves Austin wrong though.
When it comes to the cooling in the PS5. Hotter exhaust temps doesn't mean higher internal temps.
Plus the video has more credible tests than Austin's videos and makes Austin's claims flawed.
Two PS5's with that same chip, running the same game, drawing the same power, producing the same heat.
Only difference is one is taking more heat from the chip, thus the fan is running quieter.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I totally agree with what you said as I said the exact same thing several pages ago that could very well be whats going on.
Just saying if I were a betting man I would not put any money on this either way yet and will wait to see what others find
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, no idea why people are tearing down Austin as if hes already been proven wrong when we literally dont know if the APU is running hotter. I get that his test is flawed, but the rush to defend Sony here is a bit misguided. Lets wait for all the facts to come in. There is a good chance the fan is better at pushing hot air out, but there is an equally good chance that the new heatsink isnt up to snuff.
I will say this one thing. Why was Austin the first one to test this? How did he even know to tear down the new revision to see whats under the hood? Is this something he usually does? I have never seen anything like this for other revisions. It's almost as if he was tipped off.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
What is there to defend? Measuring the temperature of the exhaust is not flawed, it is IRRELEVANT.
Calling it "flawed" is just your attempt at defending the indefensible. A stupid person doing a stupid thing should be called out as such. It isn't a flawed test, it is not a test of any kind. You are STILL defending the guy, purely because you liked his conclusions and thus you want it to be true. That's not how it works.
Austin is wrong. Period. If the new PS5 has some critical flaw, it would have nothing to do with what Austin did. That is why we are attacking him; because HE IS WRONG.
Xbox customers might not care about right or wrong, but the rest of humanity do care.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think your conclusions are all wrong. To say I wanted his conclusions to be true and that I am an xbox fanboy is absolutely fucking ridiculous just because I said we should wait for the results. Get some help.
JLB
Banned
ok, then I guess we can agree that a youtuber can easily point out if a device overheats, even if its not a NASA engineer.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Cooling is important especially for consoles.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
They don’t. It’s retaining heat that’s the issue.
Smaller saturation area means more heat stays at the APU for example, thus increasing the temperature. Only way to counter this is run the fan faster.
Anyways the new heat sink will most likely be fine, it’s just shock factor so much of it was cut away. Worst case the new PS5 will be more audible from a further distance
edit: spelling
You're making the assumption that the APU, memory chips, Nand chips and other heat-producing components all produce the same heat.
That's not a safe assumption. You'd need to measure the power consumption of the two versions of the console under the same computational load to see any differences. If they exist, any assumptions about heat produced and thus the justification for the changes in cooling solution go out the window.
As I've stated already previously in the thread, Sony's PS5 components are sourced and binned against certain max voltage thresholds. The voltage (consider as a proxy for power consumption) versus clock-speed characteristics of each semiconductor-based component in the console are not uniform but randomly distributed across all parts coming off the production line.
Sony designs its power delivery system and cooling solution of the console based on the max voltage threshold limits of each of the major components of the device, plus some safety and design margin. Since the console first went into production, the semiconductor processes would have matured, such that the voltage thresholds for binned parts could have been tightened, meaning newer console APUs/memory/SSD chips could be more power-efficient. So reductions in cooling system materials can be possible without sacrificing reliability because the chips in these new units consume less power and thus produce less heat overall.
There were very likely other considerations involved with the cooling solution changes, e.g. removal of the copper plate to save on copper costs, but given the reports on the lack of change in fan speed, I'd argue the most likely reason is the peak TDP of the components of this new console revision has reduced.
Here's the interesting bit from Eurogamer's article:
"So if PlayStation 5 can work just fine with a cheaper, leaner cooler, why not just ship with it in the first place at launch? Without word from Sony, we can't say for sure but in terms of the production process, it's important to realise that when a console first comes to market, the separate components of the machine are created at the same time - in parallel, not in series. As the silicon rolls off the production line, the heat sinks are also being made. Nobody wants another red ring or yellow light of death, so it makes sense to build redundancy into the design."
"There is a documented example of this in Microsoft's original Xbox One - the hardware architects saw that there was headroom in their thermal solution so increased the core clocks on the processor itself. The GPU went from 800MHz to 854MHz, while the CPU enjoyed a bump to 1.75GHz from the original 1.6GHz. Would it have made the machine hotter? Probably. Did it matter? Clearly not. Perhaps with the benefit of more exposure to production silicon and all of the telemetry from the millions of units out there, Sony is confident enough to shrink the cooler and bring down the build cost of the machine."
Hands-on with the new PlayStation 5 CFI-1100 series console
The new CFI-1100 series revision of PlayStation 5 is now making its way to market, bringing with it a wave of controver…www.eurogamer.net
Building safety and design margin into the design of systems critical to either safety or reliability (as in this case) is just engineering design 101.
It doesn't have anything to do with RROD or YLOD which were a result of the change to lead-free solder, not even poor cooling. Had the systems been allowed to ship with leaded solder these issues wouldn't have been seen. DF embarrasses themselves yet again with this revisionist history... which is stunning given Eurogamer were themselves the ones who first broke the story about the REAL reason for the Xbox RROD and lesser occurring PS3 YLOD failures.
WTF is he on about with "less efficient materials"?
In both versions of the console, the main heat sink finned area and heat spreader directly located on the APU are aluminium (alloy-possibly). In both, the heat pipes are copper.
The only difference is the larger copper plate on the launch unit, which appears to be intended for heat dissipation, but it's not really clear what components if any it's covering (possibly the SSD and/or GDDR6 chips).
Removing this copper plate probably had close to zero effect on the operation of those components. As a big chunk of the heat produced by them is dissipated into the PCB on the other side. Additionally, assuming those components are the same, in terms of voltage and power characteristics isn't a safe assumption at all. Sony could have sourced components from a different supplier with better voltage/power profiles for the chips, meaning they inherently require less cooling in the first place.
So trying to make any broad sweeping assumptions about the overall thermal performance of the console without investigating every angle is just straight-up idiotic.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Loxus
Member
The main reasons he gets a lot of heat is not just because of his temperature results. But his bold claims that the PS5 still has overheating issues and is throttling, which is pure lies.
Not only that, he says the heatsink is massively reduced, which isn't correct. It's just the copper plate that was reduced, the fins and the heat pipes that removes the heat are about the same. And that the 3-5°c is huge and your console lifespan would be shorter.
You can't defend Austin's bold face lies.
JLB
Banned
go back to the root of the conversation, fallacy of the expert, etc
Tarin02543
Member
This is getting out of control. Ultra hot consoles for non fun games?
JackMcGunns
Member
"There's no scenario where this is good"
Whelp.
Edit:
10 degrees Fahrenheit at idle is pretty significant, under load is going to multiply. We need some tests running some demanding games to see what happens, and that's pristine PS5's, once dust settles in, we could have some performance drops considering the PS5 design relying on thermals.
What's up with the WiFi antenna array going from 4 to 2? this was clearly cutting corners to save a buck, there's zero benefit here for gamers. With the PS3 they cut back and back and back over time, this is nothing new.
I still have my original Fat PS3 with the card readers, 4 USB's in the front and SACD playback
Early adopters FTW!
Whelp.
Edit:
10 degrees Fahrenheit at idle is pretty significant, under load is going to multiply. We need some tests running some demanding games to see what happens, and that's pristine PS5's, once dust settles in, we could have some performance drops considering the PS5 design relying on thermals.
What's up with the WiFi antenna array going from 4 to 2? this was clearly cutting corners to save a buck, there's zero benefit here for gamers. With the PS3 they cut back and back and back over time, this is nothing new.
I still have my original Fat PS3 with the card readers, 4 USB's in the front and SACD playback
Early adopters FTW!
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
The fact that this guy has been exposed in a video showing he's not worried about xbox temps that are the same as this ps5 just proves how ridiculous this all is.
Guys playing the game to get views, absolute joker.
Guys playing the game to get views, absolute joker.
JLB
Banned
Nope, go back and check.
Nickolaidas
Member
Clown Youtuber confirmed, verified and beyond a shadow of doubt cemented.
100% unbiased
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Bollocks!
Your argument is predicated on pointing out that thermal design experts at Sony and MS let PS3 and XB360s out in the wild which overheated.
Let me promptly shut down this revisionist history fallacy for you...
...THE PROBLEM WITH THOSE CONSOLES DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEIR COOLING AND HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH USING LEAD-FREE SOLDER.
The lead-free solder used at launch was poorly sourced and would soften under moderate heat load, eventually allowing the processors to pop out. That's why the solution at after-market repair shops was a reflow of new solder on the chips.
It had nothing to do with cooling, and therefore had nothing to do with the thermal design of the engineers at MS and Sony, and more to do with the selection of the poor material for lead-free solder by the console assembly company Foxconn.
Educate yourselves people!
FranXico
Member
It might well be that the chip temperatures are slightly higher. But this is some thing we only learn by measuring the actual chip temperature, not by looking at the exhaust temperature. The small difference is meaningless, and the conclusions drawn by this brainlet youtuber are ridiculous, including his obsession with the variable frequency that he has zero understanding of (I bet he talks about it a lot because he thinks it makes him sound smart).
Shame on anyone who shares links to his garbage. Yes, including Eurogamer/DF.
One thing is for sure. Devices undergo certification prior to beginning manufacturing. A revision that overheats easily would not have come out at all.
Shame on anyone who shares links to his garbage. Yes, including Eurogamer/DF.
One thing is for sure. Devices undergo certification prior to beginning manufacturing. A revision that overheats easily would not have come out at all.
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dcmk7
Banned
360 was in a league of its own, everything else pales in comparison.
Don't understand why MrHotSocks is still trolling will this.
reinking
Gold Member
Papacheeks
Banned
Fin design is different on the right.nothing new to me, sony did the same fcking thing with early ps4 revisions
left -> delta (realease ps4 )
right -> nidec (trash) (revisions)
McCheese
Member
Most folks here at too young to remember having to wrap their 360 in warm towels and put it in a hot airing cupboard for 24 hours, in the hopes it would solders itself back together and fix the red-ringing.
(This isn't a joke, we actually did this, it worked sometimes).
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Topher
Gold Member
Papacheeks
Banned
When I worked in 2012-2013 at a local second hand game shop we used ovens with the boards to solder them back effectively. It worked.
McCheese
Member
That video has the updated dashboard and not the blades
my disappointment is immeasurable and my nostalgia ruined.
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skit_data
Member
How do people even come up with these solutions?
Is it like 10 million monkeys with typewriters can eventually produce shakespeare or something?
Topher
Gold Member
That video has the updated dashboard and not the blades
But the Johnny Cash background music is pretty cool.
bender
What time is it?
He doesn't even use the worst example from Sony's camp. It's nowhere near as bad as RROD but the original Playstation had thermal issues. Remember putting the console upside down? Yeah.
Soodanim
Member
When my fat PS3 YLoD’d I blasted the back vent with a hair dryer. It bought me enough time to back up saves before it bit the dust for good.
I’ve had a PS2 and PS3 die within the generation (skipped 4), and while it’s good that they put thought into the thermals of the PS5 and the minor (if at all) increase in temps with these recent changes won’t affect much of anything, hasn’t exactly left me with a lot of trust in Sony’s consoles that they might last the race. And no, my consoles aren’t mistreated. They sit where they’re placed until they’re cleaned, and it’s a no smoking household in England.
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Son_of_Zardoz
Banned
Haven't watched what is apparently a garbage ass video but if the revision is blowing out hotter air I would assume it's doing a better job removing that heat from the system (and that the system itself isn't getting any hotter than the previous version).