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[T-Cake]

Am i the only one who suspect MS will release a digital XSX in some future?

I would say not, just release a HDMI stick that plugs in to any TV for Cloud Gaming with Xbox Game Pass Ultimate. They just phase it in now - first android users, next Xbox users, then Windows users and finally TV.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Only 6%? Then this bodes well for PS5's variable frequency.

2100 MHz to 1900 MHz is a -9.5% reduction in clock speed, but the frame-rate between them can be near identical (as seen below).

And the above comparison is also with fixed frequencies i.e. it pretty much shows the worst-case scenario here.
PS5 clocks won't be fixed so depending on the scene the frequency will get back up for a more consistent, higher overall frame-rate.

1. Suppose if for e.g. PS5 dropped frequency from 2230 MHz to 2000 MHz for a couple of seconds (which would be a -10.5% reduction in clk speed), so judging from DF's tests, the frame-rate wouldn't take much of a hit then. And the comparison above is also with fixed frequencies i.e. it pretty much shows the worst-case scenario here. PS5 clocks won't be fixed so depending on the scene the frequency will get back up for a more consistent, higher overall frame-rate. On top of this, SmartShift will help both GPU/CPU workloads even further. So this proves Mark Cerny did the right thing. People throw a lot of shit at him for going with variable freq. and call it 9TF console without knowledge. This screenshot above proves how wrong they're.

2. Regarding 36 CUs vs 40 CUs at 9.67 TF comparison, it's just 2.5% in favor of 40 CUs. So basically the same and within margin of error. For Sony, there are larger benefits to go with fewer CUs at higher clk speed than more CUs with lower clk speed. As Cerny himself said that, "large number of benefits more than counterbalance any disadvantage" when talking about 36 CUs vs 48 CUs. Back compat is likely one of the reasons. I've talked about this here not too long ago.

1. You chose a screenshot where momentarily showed the same framerate. Yet the test clearly says difference is ~6%.
To translate this into "game" data, if your target is 60fps, you drop to mid-50s.
Clocks being fixed in this test is not "the worst case scenario" as you say, but in fact is the best case scenario regarding ps5 real usage.
Just try to imagine the same test if the CPU and the GPU had to constantly downclock when a demanding scene was rendered.

2. Pay attention for a moment: 4 CUs are more than enough to ovelap a 200+Mhz difference in overall performance, so there goes cerny's "rising tide lifts all boats" and "more CUs are more difficult to use for power" narratives.
Now, xbox does not have 40 CUs, it has ...52 CUs.

I will agree that 36 CUs are probably the result of sony's inability to do backward compatibility.

And about the last thing you say about b/c mode and clocks, IIRC I had commented back when you posted your theory, posting the leaked amd tests showing ps5 clockspeeds for ps4/ps4pro backward compatibility.
Right now it seems you believe that ps4 games will run with ps5 clocks. that is wrong, with only exception of those select games that will be able to function with "ps5 boost mode". And "ps5 boost mode for b/c" is a list that is quite barren at this point.

 

[Felessan]

Project Awakening is being made by CY Games. Nothing on their website even suggests the 2 are related.

CyGames works with some former SE staff, but other them being fans of/strongly influenced by FF they are unrelated.

 

[Evilms]

 

[PaintTinJr]

Interesting example.

I posted a video earlier from DF with a test on hitman, trying to illustrate both the performance differences clock speed produces, AND the performance differences CUs produce


-On a 36 CU rdna gpu, going from 1.9Ghz to 2.1Ghz produces only a 6% advantage
-While a 40 CU rdna card at 1.8xGhz already overperforms the 36 CU GPU at 2.1Ghz, with only 4 CUs more, AND this at the same teraflops

(Edit: For those of you that are not able to understand, and put smiley emoticons on this post, here basically DF disproves cerny's "rising tide" bull-theorem)

Although the entire video segment is important and quite eye opening, you can just jump to just before the 7th minute point for the test.

I only watched from 7mins, but what level of corrected memory controller errors are they getting on each? And more importantly, do both cards have the same memory controller? Obviously, memory controllers is a very strong area of design for Sony, so claiming someone that could technically buy-&-sell you and all of DF (and most people -including myself) has a "bull-theorem" is a bit out of order IMHO, when his statement will be base on raw engineer facts.

Unless you can remove the cooling(so liquid cool in the DF test),power draw(so the lesser card has more supply at the higher clock) and memory controller as the limiting factor from these, - move a few sliders -opaque tests - something which the xbox and playstation engineering teams aren't limited by - and then make the same claims, all you are doing is making a sales pitch for buyers to purchase a higher tier GPU, which is what Nvidia and AMD want buyers to do, and engineer their cards that way (in the consumer space) all the way through design up to the graphics driver.

 

[jasondefaoite]

That's quite close to the pricing in Singapore. 729 SGd or around 536 USD. They haven't even offered the digital edition anywhere yet. Preorders were gone in 1 minute

Digital edition was offered in Singapore. I pre-ordered one.

Usual thing happened. Websites crashed, buy the item to add item to cart, and fill out your details, it's out of stock. But it was offered.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I only watched from 7mins, but what level of corrected memory controller errors are they getting on each? And more importantly, do both cards have the same memory controller? Obviously, memory controllers is a very strong area of design for Sony, so claiming someone that could technically buy-&-sell you and all of DF (and most people -including myself) has a "bull-theorem" is a bit out of order IMHO, when his statement will be base on raw engineer facts.

Unless you can remove the cooling(so liquid cool in the DF test),power draw(so the lesser card has more supply at the higher clock) and memory controller as the limiting factor from these, - move a few sliders -opaque tests - something which the xbox and playstation engineering teams aren't limited by - and then make the same claims, all you are doing is making a sales pitch for buyers to purchase a higher tier GPU, which is what Nvidia and AMD want buyers to do, and engineer their cards that way (in the consumer space) all the way through design up to the graphics driver.

well, I can agree that both cooling and consumption as products of high clock speeds will be a greater worry on consoles than on PC.
my constant nag about sony is that I want to see a hardware stripdown and some independent hands-on.
power-wise, I know how its going to play out, and for every multiplatform game ps5 is 100% definitely the lesser machine.
noise and behavior is all I care about ps5, and sony's silence along with the size of the thing only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[Games Bookstore]

Am i the only one who suspect MS will release a digital XSX in some future?

$399.00

 

[zaitsu]

well, I can agree that both cooling and consumption as products of high clock speeds will be a greater worry on consoles than on PC.
my constant nag about sony is that I want to see a hardware stripdown and some independent hands-on.
power-wise, I know how its going to play out, and for every multiplatform game ps5 is 100% definitely the lesser machine.
noise and behavior is all I care about ps5, and sony's silence along with the size of the thing only adds fuel to the fire.

Fuck fucking fuckeryboy fuck shark.

Im joking but " war, war never changes "

How fuvking innsecure he is that he is going to bash PS5 for one month straight.

Like its already sold out everywhere. People care about games...

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

1. You chose a screenshot where momentarily showed the same framerate. Yet the test clearly says difference is ~6%.
To translate this into "game" data, if your target is 60fps, you drop to mid-50s.
Clocks being fixed in this test is not "the worst case scenario" as you say, but in fact is the best case scenario regarding ps5 real usage.
Just try to imagine the same test if the CPU and the GPU had to constantly downclock when a demanding scene was rendered.

2. Pay attention for a moment: 4 CUs are more than enough to ovelap a 200+Mhz difference in overall performance, so there goes cerny's "rising tide lifts all boats" and "more CUs are more difficult to use for power" narratives.
Now, xbox does not have 40 CUs, it has ...52 CUs.

I will agree that 36 CUs are probably the result of sony's inability to do backward compatibility.

And about the last thing you say about b/c mode and clocks, IIRC I had commented back when you posted your theory, posting the leaked amd tests showing ps5 clockspeeds for ps4/ps4pro backward compatibility.
Right now it seems you believe that ps4 games will run with ps5 clocks. that is wrong, with only exception of those select games that will be able to function with "ps5 boost mode". And "ps5 boost mode for b/c" is a list that is quite barren at this point.

Andrew Goossen and Nick Baker disagree with you:

we found that going to 14 CUs wasn't as effective as the 6.6 per cent clock upgrade that we did. Now everybody knows from the internet that going to 14 CUs should have given us almost 17 per cent more performance but in terms of actual measured games - what actually, ultimately counts - is that it was a better engineering decision to raise the clock. There are various bottlenecks you have in the pipeline that [can] cause you not to get the performance you want [if your design is out of balance].

Nick Baker: Increasing the frequency impacts the whole of the GPU whereas adding CUs beefs up shaders and ALU.

Andrew Goossen: Right. By fixing the clock, not only do we increase our ALU performance, we also increase our vertex rate, we increase our pixel rate and ironically increase our ESRAM bandwidth. But we also increase the performance in areas surrounding bottlenecks like the drawcalls flowing through the pipeline, the performance of reading GPRs out of the GPR pool, etc. GPUs are giantly complex. There's gazillions of areas in the pipeline that can be your bottleneck in addition to just ALU and fetch performance.

The GPU clock difference this time is >22%, not 6.6%.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You should move to Singapore. I moved here coz the internet's good. Specially for uploading those huge video files.

Well, Singapore is way ahead of us in many things, not just internet, lol. Here we got 1Gbps (125Mbps upload) plan for 100 OMR ($260 USD) per month, but a guy working in Oman Broadband (the guys that do the whole work for providing fiber for all other companies) said that 2Tbps (2,000Gbps) is available for selected people, like royals . Companies are letting us have only get around %0.001-0.00006 of its full potential. It should get cheaper later on.

Nice name for that company though, SingTel.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Wonderful breakdown analysis from @Kingthrash for Spider-man MM:





Fuck DF.

The modder fuckin nigga of da modder fuckin graphics in da modder fackin knee cap in da modder fucking smoke..... Look my neggga, dis is ruunin on da modder fuckin Pee ess fi....

 

[Killer Sakoman]

First time someone from sony says the world xbox in probably 2 decades.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Andrew Goossen and Nick Baker disagree with you:

I have written MANY times that what microsoft did with xbone was a pathetic loss of direction.
I have also written MANY times that the thing you are quoting is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to damage-control xbone.

I have also written in response to this specific quote that they did the upclock, and we all know how much it worked "better"

Playstation guys clinging on failed damage control attempts of microsoft is a very funny thing to watch, and it keeps getting repeated


At the very least Goossen admitted that they were not aiming for a high-end GPU with xbone.
Let's see sony's h/w architects have the same level of sincerity....

 

[ksdixon]

*shudders*
That controller looks monsterous!
As someone who liked DS4 and hated XB1 pad for being too big, I am sufficiently apprehensive.

 

[SgtCaffran]

*shudders*
That controller looks monsterous!
As someone who liked DS4 and hated XB1 pad for being too big, I am sufficiently apprehensive.

I actually think its about the same size as the DualShock 4. There have been some overlays with the sticks as reference.

 

[ksdixon]

I actually think its about the same size as the DualShock 4. There have been some overlays with the sticks as reference.

Yeah I've seem them too, so I'm hoping it's good to hold. but every time I come across the PS5 pad on pictures it just looks huge somehow.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

*shudders*
That controller looks monsterous!
As someone who liked DS4 and hated XB1 pad for being too big, I am sufficiently apprehensive.

the controller is probably one of the best things about ps5. those el cheapo triggers and grip shape of ds4 can go to hell

let me help you fix your perception:

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Interesting chinwag with Digital Foundry at PAX, especially near the ending.

Richard says on paper the XSX is clearly the more powerful but Microsoft have a new software development kit (GDK) which encompasses single code base for Xbox One, Xbox Series X|S and PC. Some developers love it, some don't. I take that as being that the full potential of XSX may sometimes never be reached as there may not be opportunities to specifically tune the code for a single device now. I have no idea.

On the other hand, developers are truly loving the PS5. It's much the same tools as the PS4 but everything just scaled up.

38'34" onwards

Great catch there, mate. What I like about Richard that he does his best to avoid being biased towards xbox, unlike Alex which he acts like an amateur PC/MS fanboy.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

I have written MANY times that what microsoft did with xbone was a pathetic loss of direction.
I have also written MANY times that the thing you are quoting is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to damage-control xbone.

I have also written in response to this specific quote that they did the upclock, and we all know how much it worked "better"

Playstation guys clinging on failed damage controls attempts of microsoft is a very funny thing to watch, and it keeps getting repeated


At the very least Goossen admitted that they were not aiming for a high-end GPU with xbone.
Let's see sony's h/w architects have the same level of sincerity....

You have derailed this thread countless times to antagonize by repeating the same shtick, but have never put your stamp on how this will shake out. So how do you see that big gap playing out? Assuming XSX at native 4K:

PS5 at 30fps vs 60fps? 60fps vs 120fps?
PS5 at 1800p? 1440p?

 

[raul3d]

Interesting example.

I posted a video earlier from DF with a test on hitman, trying to illustrate both the performance differences clock speed produces, AND the performance differences CUs produce


-On a 36 CU rdna gpu, going from 1.9Ghz to 2.1Ghz produces only a 6% advantage
-While a 40 CU rdna card at 1.8xGhz already overperforms the 36 CU GPU at 2.1Ghz, with only 4 CUs more, AND this at the same teraflops

(Edit: For those of you that are not able to understand, and put smiley emoticons on this post, here basically DF disproves cerny's "rising tide" bull-theorem)

Although the entire video segment is important and quite eye opening, you can just jump to just before the 7th minute point for the test.

Different architectures and all. I like how you keep calling Cerny a liar from time to time, someone who has the technical understanding you can only dream of. From Microsoft per Eurogamer:

Every one of the Xbox One dev kits actually has 14 CUs on the silicon. Two of those CUs are reserved for redundancy in manufacturing. But we could go and do the experiment - if we were actually at 14 CUs what kind of performance benefit would we get versus 12? And if we raised the GPU clock what sort of performance advantage would we get? And we actually saw on the launch titles - we looked at a lot of titles in a lot of depth - we found that going to 14 CUs wasn't as effective as the 6.6 per cent clock upgrade that we did. Now everybody knows from the internet that going to 14 CUs should have given us almost 17 per cent more performance but in terms of actual measured games - what actually, ultimately counts - is that it was a better engineering decision to raise the clock. There are various bottlenecks you have in the pipeline that [can] cause you not to get the performance you want [if your design is out of balance].

 

[Md Ray]

1. You chose a screenshot where momentarily showed the same framerate. Yet the test clearly says difference is ~6%.
To translate this into "game" data, if your target is 60fps, you drop to mid-50s.
Clocks being fixed in this test is not "the worst case scenario" as you say, but in fact is the best case scenario regarding ps5 real usage.
Just try to imagine the same test if the CPU and the GPU had to constantly downclock when a demanding scene was rendered.

2. Pay attention for a moment: 4 CUs are more than enough to ovelap a 200+Mhz difference in overall performance, so there goes cerny's "rising tide lifts all boats" and "more CUs are more difficult to use for power" narratives.
Now, xbox does not have 40 CUs, it has ...52 CUs.

I will agree that 36 CUs are probably the result of sony's inability to do backward compatibility.

And about the last thing you say about b/c mode and clocks, IIRC I had commented back when you posted your theory, posting the leaked amd tests showing ps5 clockspeeds for ps4/ps4pro backward compatibility.
Right now it seems you believe that ps4 games will run with ps5 clocks. that is wrong, with only exception of those select games that will be able to function with "ps5 boost mode". And "ps5 boost mode for b/c" is a list that is quite barren at this point.

Hence why I said "near-identical".

What I meant by worst-case scenario is that Richard's 1900 MHz test run spends 100% its time at 1900 MHz and the 2100 MHz test run spends 100% of its time at 2100 MHz. And the resulting data we get when going from 1900 MHz to 2100 MHz is a ~6% advantage in fps. PS5's GPU clock will vary. It won't be spending 100% of its time at a lower, 2000 MHz for example. Makes sense? Because of this - the frame-rate difference on PS5 will be very minor during downclocking, less than ~6% of the 1900 vs 2100 MHz tests we see in that vid.

Cerny gave his e.g. with 48 CUs vs 36 CUs. 33% difference there. Richard did his tests with 40 CUs vs 36 CUs. 11% difference in this case. Not the same. And he himself says this in the vid, "we need more testing points and an RDNA card with more than 40 CUs to get much more in the way of meaningful data, tbh". So yeah one game isn't enough to conclude Cerny is wrong and Richard is right. More games need to tested with more than 40 CUs for an accurate picture.

In regards to: "more CUs are more difficult to use for power", what he said is true. Parallelizing/multi-threading is indeed hard. He said, when triangles are small, it's much easier to use 36 CUs in parallel and fill them with useful work than a GPU with near 50 CUs. "Triangles are small", he was talking about Nanite there, which is the micro-polygon renderer in UE5 which can render polygons the size of pixels.

Do we have a list of the games taking advantage of PS5's boost mode?

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

You have derailed this thread countless times to antagonize by repeating the same shtick, but have never put your stamp on how this will shake out. So how do you see that big gap playing out? Assuming XSX at native 4K:

PS5 at 30fps vs 60fps? 60fps vs 120fps?
PS5 at 1800p? 1440p?

This is difficult to say right now, as the only hardware "proof" we have about ps5 is ...cerny's speech
We have heard what some developers are doing right now, keeping the CPU throttled down to maximize GPU.
We also heard what borderlands 3 might be doing: same resolution, different quality and level of effects etc.

For as long as the games are cross-gen the differences will be smaller.
When we break free from jaguar compatibility, then the differences will start to become more significant.

(edit: a simple example is that even spiderman, a cross-gen game, couldn't hold native 4k at 30fps all the time in what was shown in sony's show.)

Do we have a list of the games taking advantage of PS5's boost mode?

As far as I know, nope!

 

[Nickolaidas]

Ok this has to be said, when Jim said PlayStation believes in generations he was being truthful. This is in stark contrast to Xbox saying don't expect major next gen only exclusives for 2 years. Demons Souls remake is a PS5 exclusive and that's sony first party, there's still many unannounced exclusives for PS5 from Sony WWS. How does Miles Morales, Horizon FW and God of war being cross gen negate his statement or makes his statement as lies?

It was a shady message to begin with. Miles Morales and Forbidden West were portrayed as true next gen games and at the very last minute we were told they weren't. This makes the FW reveal hypocritical, since it was portrayed as a PS5 next-gen only experience, when in fact it is merely a high-res port.

 

[Neo Blaster]

.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I have written MANY times that what microsoft did with xbone was a pathetic loss of direction.
I have also written MANY times that the thing you are quoting is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to damage-control xbone.

I have also written in response to this specific quote that they did the upclock, and we all know how much it worked "better"

Playstation guys clinging on failed damage controls attempts of microsoft is a very funny thing to watch, and it keeps getting repeated


At the very least Goossen admitted that they were not aiming for a high-end GPU with xbone.
Let's see sony's h/w architects have the same level of sincerity....

In the specific case of clocks versus more CUs Goossen categorically states in actual real games higher clocks gave the bigger benefit. Of course to some degree all these execs/spokespersons/fellows are mouthpieces doing PR but I doubt statements like this are flat out lies.

Both of these consoles are a compromise at the end of the day. Sony went small/less CUs and higher clocks and Microsoft went with an Azure chip that could do 4 instances Xbox One and double as the 12TF enthusiast model to save on costs and the fact they also did a second <200mm2 SoC for a cheaper model too.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Fuck even Stadia is in there for some reason and they missed Series S? I don't think it was a mistake, but intentional.
Cause we know with their previous naming nomenclature, they could've easily put Series X|S in there it is just this symbol-> | and upper case letter S
So again I believe it was intentional, it is not something like DS also coming to other consoles and PC mistake.

Going forward, you'll just see Series X in these mentions. Series S runs "all" software supported by Series X, as already stated by MS. No need for a mention in promotional material.

 

[xcalibersa]

It was a shady message to begin with. Miles Morales and Forbidden West were portrayed as true next gen games and at the very last minute we were told they weren't. This makes the FW reveal hypocritical, since it was portrayed as a PS5 next-gen only experience, when in fact it is merely a high-res port.

Pretty sure everyone knew MM was a cross gen game

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Great catch there, mate. What I like about Richard that he does his best to avoid being biased towards xbox, unlike Alex which he acts like an amateur PC/MS fanboy.

Honestly, we've had our laughs and thrown some jabs at DF for the whole "being on Microsoft's pocket", but I genuinely like hearing Richard and John talk, DF Retro is particularly great. Whatever their preference (and I would even argue that John appreciates PS more than Xbox), they are always calm and constructive, and you can tell that they quite simply know what they're talking about.

At the end of the day, a big reason for them to cover some more Microsoft stuff I think is quite simply that Microsoft is more willing to share details and give info and certain exclusive coverage for them than Sony. John was saying on twitter the other day how they may depend on getting some PS5 pre-orders to be able to do the usual game analysis, because, at this point they are not sure if they will get a hardware unit from Sony and if they get one, it will be just that, one, and considering they all basically live apart from each other, they would still rely on getting a couple of consoles themselves.


Edit: Alex is obviously an asshole, that much is a given.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Has anyone posted uncompressed 4K videos of those new PS5 trailers? (Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, etc.)

My screenshots are made out of the youtube version, but downloaded the WebM versions which are decent and little bit better than streaming from youtube in 4K. I used Firefox with "YouTube Video and Audio Downloader (Dev Edt.)" extention/add on, and you install other stuff from the extension page so you can merge both the video only WebM and audio only WebM on the file.

So, Spider-Man's MM video is 886GB after youtube compression. But it's not like playing the game natively, nor like making screenshots as the frame stabilizes when you take screenshots from PS5 natively. Also it depends on the used tv for the final image. Overall, it's still a good as some might've seen through the screenshots. Screenshots made in VLC, slowing down the video and picking the best frame possible in PNG format.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Honestly, we've had our laughs and thrown some jabs at DF for the whole "being on Microsoft's pocket", but I genuinely like hearing Richard and John talk, DF Retro is particularly great. Whatever their preference (and I would even argue that John appreciates PS more than Xbox), they are always calm and constructive, and you can tell that they quite simply know what they're talking about.

At the end of the day, a big reason for them to cover some more Microsoft stuff I think is quite simply that Microsoft is more willing to share details and give info and certain exclusive coverage for them than Sony. John was saying on twitter the other day how they may depend on getting some PS5 pre-orders to be able to do the usual game analysis, because, at this point they are not sure if they will get a hardware unit from Sony and if they get one, it will be just that, one, and considering they all basically live apart from each other, they would still rely on getting a couple of consoles themselves.


Edit: Alex is obviously an asshole, that much is a given.

I wouldn't give their filthy hands my PS5 if I was Sony, after all the BS that channel has spread.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

In the specific case of clocks versus more CUs Goossen categorically states in actual real games higher clocks gave the bigger benefit. Of course to some degree all these execs/spokespersons/fellows are mouthpieces doing PR but I doubt statements like this are flat out lies.

Both of these consoles are a compromise at the end of the day. Sony went small/less CUs and higher clocks and Microsoft went with an Azure chip that could do 4 instances Xbox One and double as the 12TF enthusiast model to save on costs and the fact they also did a second <200mm2 SoC for a cheaper model too.

As I said already, they did the upclock, and we all know how it panned out. of course it was damage control and the only thing to do. how could they add CUs after h/w was finalized?

Both are compromises, yes. Always are, always have been.
But one of them shows for what it really is, while the other one relies on smokes and mirrors to beautify its image.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Pretty sure everyone knew MM was a cross gen game

Pretty sure no one did until three days ago.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Exactly I mentioned that in my original post saying Demon's Souls Remake is exclusive to PS5. But god of war has been on dev similar to miles morales for the last 2 and half or so years. Back when next gen dev kits weren't even out yet. I mean they could've started working on current gen and moved their efforts to next gen entirely, but i don't see it happening

MM is a spin off and smaller in size while GOW is a full sequel. You could mention HFW, but according to your argument, it's in development for even more time before devkits.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

I wouldn't give their filthy hands my PS5 if I was Sony, after all the BS that channel has spread.

Nah, I don't agree with you here, brother. Merely because Sony surely knows a lot of people watch their content and like to see how a game fares technically speaking via their videos. We can argue about how greatly or poorly they do their job, but I think Sony absolutely knows they're a big channel and they want to see their games there.

 

[jonnyp]

I wouldn't give their filthy hands my PS5 if I was Sony, after all the BS that channel has spread.

They should give it to Tech Jesus - by far the best on youtube.

 

[Md Ray]

We have heard what some developers are doing right now, keeping the CPU throttled down to maximize GPU.

(edit: a simple example is that even spiderman, a cross-gen game, couldn't hold native 4k at 30fps all the time in what was shown in sony's show.)

CPU can be throttled because it doesn't matter in today's cross-gen games. It's very powerful. Even if you run the CPU at 3.0 GHz, it will still produce over 2x the frame-rate of PS4. It's nothing to be concerned about.

Also, it takes time to fully explore the hardware. Games initially weren't making use of async compute on PS4 in cross-gen games, and they even had frame-rate dips. But now we have games that look far better than those cross-gen games on the same hardware with more consistent frame-rates.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

This is difficult to say right now, as the only hardware "proof" we have about ps5 is ...cerny's speech
We have heard what some developers are doing right now, keeping the CPU throttled down to maximize GPU.
We also heard what borderlands 3 might be doing: same resolution, different quality and level of effects etc.

For as long as the games are cross-gen the differences will be smaller.
When we break free from jaguar compatibility, then the differences will start to become more significant.

(edit: a simple example is that even spiderman, a cross-gen game, couldn't hold native 4k at 30fps all the time in what was shown in sony's show.)

So not only do you agree there’s nuance to evaluating performance but you build in an excuse to CYA that cross gen games shouldn’t show much of a difference.

We know the latter is a joke because XB1/PS4 launch games ran at 720p vs 1080p with a ~35% difference in compute units and Tflops, and XB1 performance improved significantly over the gen.

Do you think launch games on PS5 will be 1440p with XSX at 4K?

 

[FranXico]

Pretty sure everyone knew MM was a cross gen game

A lot of us, me included, suspected it started development as a PS4 standalone spin-off of Spiderman, and then got carried over to PS5, receiving graphical enhancements. But I assumed the original PS4 game had been canned.
Now it does make me wonder about GT7. Because it looked a lot like GT Sport to be honest.

 

[Dodkrake]

Is the moderation going to allow the great white dude to continue derailing threads? It's obvious there's no discussion to be had here, dude just recycles the same discord script and keeps in going around in circles. I've been silenced for less. Jesus Christ.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

CPU can be throttled because it doesn't matter in today's cross-gen games. It's very powerful. Even if you run the CPU at 3.0 GHz, it will still produce over 2x the frame-rate of PS4. It's nothing to be concerned about.

Also, it takes time to fully explore the hardware. Games initially weren't making use of async compute on PS4 in cross-gen games, and they even had frame-rate dips. But now we have games that look far better than those cross-gen games on the same hardware with more consistent frame-rates.

Agreed

So not only do you agree there’s nuance to evaluating performance but you build in an excuse to CYA that cross gen games shouldn’t show much of a difference.

We know the latter is a joke because XB1/PS4 launch games ran at 720p vs 1080p with a ~35% difference in compute units and Tflops, and XB1 performance improved significantly over the gen.

Do you think launch games on PS5 will be 1440p with XSX at 4K?

720p-1080p probably you are referring to COD day 1 release, then over-generalizing. try to not do that.
As we all know, that was not the gap of the previous gen.
A far better example is Battlefield 4, another -similar- launch game, only 100X times more technical.
720p-900p was the difference day 1, and this analogy basically was kept for the entire generation


Performance can be approximately evaluated by h/w specs. Sony has shown only what paints them in a favorable light, and hushed about very crucial details that you'd need to know in order to estimate what you are asking me to do.
If we take their silence as confirmation, the gap this gen will be significantly bigger than previous gen.

 

[sircaw]

TheGreatWhiteShark

Have some questions for you.

Question 1
What did you think of the Demon souls demo they showed, particularly the amount of detail in the video, did you like the loading screen, give us some thoughts on it, the internet gaming world is kinda alive at the moment with people focusing on it. Do you think it showed of what next generation is about, what about all those effects in the game, were you impressed.

I personally think its one of the most beautiful things i have seen, in fact i think its by far the best game shown so far, what do you think? would love you to give some detail, even if your not getting the game or if its your type.

question 2
What do you think about people like Dealer and colteastwood, and the fud that they spread, are you totally against them, would like to know your thoughts are on their bullshit. I am pretty sure 99% of gaf recognizes them for what they are, what about you, i just want an honest opinion here, from your own personal experience, don't you dare say you don't watch them or you want a timestamped video.

question 3.
And would like to know about xbox, what particular areas do you think they have failed in so far this generation. I think we have seen or heard enough of your points in regards to Sony, there seem to be so many.

Can you break down a list of the things that Microsoft are fucking up this generation? Things that you can not stand, regardless if its Phils incompetence, games not being shown etc etc, there must be tones of things pissing you off. can you list them?

 

[kensama]

Has anyone posted uncompressed 4K videos of those new PS5 trailers? (Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, etc.)

File folder on MEGA

mega.nz

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Agreed


720p-1080p probably you are referring to COD day 1 release, then over-generalizing. try to not do that.
As we all know, that was not the gap of the previous gen.
A far better example is Battlefield 4, another -similar- launch game, only 100X times more technical.
720p-900p was the difference day 1, and this analogy basically was kept for the entire generation


Performance can be approximately evaluated by h/w specs. Sony has shown only what paints them in a favorable light, and hushed about very crucial details that you'd need to know in order to estimate what you are asking me to do.
If we take their silence as confirmation, the gap this gen will be significantly bigger than previous gen.

Take their silence as confirmation of what exactly?

If you’re missing crucial details (good or bad) to make an informed opinion about resolutions/performance, then why do you antagonize and derail this thread constantly doing just that?

 

[Mahavastu]

That's quite close to the pricing in Singapore. 729 SGd or around 536 USD. They haven't even offered the digital edition anywhere yet. Preorders were gone in 1 minute

I would like to know hard numbers behind this "preorders sold out in minutes / hours worldwide" thing.
Did Sony sell 1000 units, 10K, 100K, 1Mio, 10Mio worldwide until now? That would be more interesting then the number of minutes in which an unknown number of devices were sold.

 

[By-mission]

Is the moderation going to allow the great white dude to continue derailing threads? It's obvious there's no discussion to be had here, dude just recycles the same discord script and keeps in going around in circles. I've been silenced for less. Jesus Christ.

I get tired just thinking that in two weeks he will be back with this same FUD ..

Well, when you use the same argument, it is exhausted, and there are so many others and the white shark goes back to the beginning it goes back to the same argument ...

Something doesn't really get me wrong ...

It's like arguing with someone with Alzheimer's, maybe he really forgot how much this has already been refuted and from time to time he forgets, to keep repeating the same speech.

I get tired just thinking that in two weeks he will be back with this same FUD ..

 

[Bo_Hazem]

They should give it to Tech Jesus - by far the best on youtube.

Yup they should hunt for those honest channels. Personally, would rather give it to Linus than DF, even if he's just an amateur. Unbox Therapy is also a great channel to give, as they already use Sony products (cameras) and use both consoles as it seems and they're more tech in general than gaming so you might reach some casuals who don't follow the news about consoles. I've talked to some here who got BS info from the pseudo youtubers out there, so FUD isn't an easy weed to eliminate.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I would like to know hard numbers behind this "preorders sold out in minutes / hours worldwide" thing.
Did Sony sell 1000 units, 10K, 100K, 1Mio, 10Mio worldwide until now? That would be more interesting then the number of minutes in which an unknown number of devices were sold.

The real numbers are what we need to see. Is there that much more demand for the PS5 over PS4 (at launch), or are there just a LOT less units available?

I have a feeling this is going to be the weakest launch in absolute numbers for the PS brand. Especially with stores saying they are no longer reserving units until 2021, makes you wonder how few they are getting. But, there is always that chance that PS5 is just this popular, maybe a bit of the covid effect.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Take their silence as confirmation of what exactly?

If you’re missing crucial details (good or bad) to make an informed opinion about resolutions/performance, then why do you antagonize and derail this thread constantly doing just that?

As confirmation of features missing. machine learning, variable rate shading etc, these are things that will play a role as we gradually roll into next gen games.
Also about how the ps5 clocks work. Leadbetter asked Cerny in person if there is a low limit for the clocks, and cerny declined to answer. now what does that make you think?

Finally, I write about performance stuff ONLY when I read hilarious things about comparing xbox to ps5.
My posts are always reasonable and very well supported. AND POLITE.
Some people do understand, while some others don't.
I already know that I'll be using my ps5 for those first party games that I do care about, so the performance differences are not my main concern.
I have said many times that my personal interest is the behavior and the noise ps5 will make. my ps4s are a bad contrast to my xboxes in these matters.

TheGreatWhiteShark

Have some questions for you.

Question 1
What did you think of the Demon souls demo they showed, particularly the amount of detail in the video, did you like the loading screen, give us some thoughts on it, the internet gaming world is kinda alive at the moment with people focusing on it. Do you think it showed of what next generation is about, what about all those effects in the game, were you impressed.

I personally think its one of the most beautiful things i have seen, in fact i think its by far the best game shown so far, what do you think? would love you to give some detail, even if your not getting the game or if its your type.

question 2
What do you think about people like Dealer and colteastwood, and the fud that they spread, are you totally against them, would like to know your thoughts are on their bullshit. I am pretty sure 99% of gaf recognizes them for what they are, what about you, i just want an honest opinion here, from your own personal experience, don't you dare say you don't watch them or you want a timestamped video.

question 3.
And would like to know about xbox, what particular areas do you think they have failed in so far this generation. I think we have seen or heard enough of your points in regards to Sony, there seem to be so many.

Can you break down a list of the things that Microsoft are fucking up this generation? Things that you can not stand, regardless if its Phils incompetence, games not being shown etc etc, there must be tones of things pissing you off. can you list them?

my little fishy friend thats a loooong list of questions to ask
I will answer the first for now.

If a ps3 remake at 80 euros is what next generation is about, then I say fuck next generation.
DS was good back at the day, but for today's standards not so hot.
I can understand the excitement and memories of people, but running in a corridor to hit one opponent is not what I expect from next gen to hype me.

You have to remember, I had told you many months before that this would make launch. I knew because I have a few friends at sony who are crazy about their memories of this game, so they had asked around. because of them also I know that memory-excitement feeling about DS.
Personally I am not into souls-type games, but no big deal. I can understand.
I am not buying the game though, to answer to that part too. I still have it on my ps3, which is working and connected, and never felt the desire to replay it.


I have to say though, that with how things came, its a pity that this will be the poster child for ps5's launch.
I am willing to bet that in a few months it will release to ps4 too.
And you very much know that if this was releasing day-date on ps4, hype about it probably would be lower.
This tells much about playstation fans "need" to brag "exclusives"


The rest of your questions I will address after I have some launch

 

[sircaw]

my little fishy friend thats a loooong list of questions to ask
I will answer the first for now.

If a ps3 remake at 80 euros is what next generation is about, then I say fuck next generation.
DS was good back at the day, but for today's standards not so hot.
I can understand the excitement and memories of people, but running in a corridor to hit one opponent is not what I expect from next gen to hype me.

You have to remember, I had told you many months before that this would make launch. I knew because I have a few friends at sony who are crazy about their memories of this game, so they had asked around. because of them also I know that memory-excitement feeling about DS.
Personally I am not into souls-type games, but no big deal. I can understand.
I am not buying the game though, to answer to that part too. I still have it on my ps3, which is working and connected, and never felt the desire to replay it.


I have to say though, that with how things came, its a pity that this will be the poster child for ps5's launch.
I am willing to bet that in a few months it will release to ps4 too.
And you very much know that if this was releasing day-date on ps4, hype about it probably would be lower.
This tells much about playstation fans "need" to brag "exclusives"


The rest of your questions I will address after I have some launch

forget about whether you like the game or not, i am asking what about the detail on offer, the effects of the smoke, dust, the atmosphere, regardless of if you like the game or not surly you can appreciate those things?

I am not interested if your buying the game or not. i just want to know what you think about it being 60 fps and having that kind of incredible detail in it, surely you don't have to be a fan of the series to comment on the images that you are seeing?

what do you think of that less than 1 second load time?


And what about the Dealer and Eastwood question, you can answer that now can't you?