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[MasterCornholio]

As far as i am concerned, he's already lost his job. I dont think he deserves it but i think Sony is not going to tolerate NDA breaches like this.

Before this everyone was under the assumption that ML was a part of Sony's GPU. This was in the 2nd Wired article. Sony would get in a lot of trouble for not issuing a correction to the EA exec talking about ML if this was true. So he's technically gotten Sony in trouble. if the PS5 isnt RDNA 2.0 then Lisa Su would be on the record as a liar. So yeah, i would say everyone from Lisa Su to Mark Cerny and Jim Ryan would be coming for his head. He's fucked.

That said, I dont think this is true. There is clearly enough RDNA 2.0 features here that it qualifies as a RDNA 2.0 card. You cannot get a 2.23 ghz GPU in a console if it doesnt have RDNA 2.0's perf/w efficiencies. You cannot have hardware ray tracing if it doesnt have RDNA 2.0 featureset. And I highly doubt that the EA exec would lie about Sony features that arent in the console. Though it IS possible that Xbox has a slightly different implementation.

The great thing is that in only five days we will know if the games with VRS, DLSS, and fixed clocks will look twice as good as the PS5 exclusives. if everything looks as good as hellblade 2 in realtime then we will have our answer and Sony will be roasted on the internet. I just dont believe thats going to be the case.

I honestly just believe that some people are just interpreting this wrong. The alternative is just insane like you said.

Exposing Lisa Su and Cerny as liars is just extreme in my opinion.

 

[Lethal01]

The ray-tracing implementation is also the RDNA 2 implementation through the intersection engines, same as the Series X. So I'm just not buying this whole RDNA 1.5 thing, and anyone saying that Sony bolted on these features last minute then that is utterly laughable.

I agree there, I'm sure the changes from standard RDNA were very deliberate, however I don't think it's crazy to say that along with custom feature being added, other feature that could have been benefitial may have been removed.

I find it strange that people take it being RDNA2 as confirmation that it's totally standard RDNA2 when the have been constantly emphasizing it's a custom solution.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Heisenburg any teases? How long until ps news after the xbox show? 1 week? 2?

I really don't know when they will tell us the exact timing on their show. Have heard mentions it will be the first week of Aug but nothing concrete and don't be so sure we go all this week only talking about the upcoming Xbox show.

I know HeisenbergFX4 knows something.. and he is very excited about that so propelled state of play in August.. let’s try squeeze something of him

I am looking quite forward to a couple of things in this upcoming show in particular

Why do you think Heisenberg is legit? Didn't he got ps5 TF wrong too?

I was seduced by higher numbers I said for the longest time 10-10.5 TF and right before the reveal I went up to 11 and wish I would have listened to the little birdies.

So I deserve some crap for upping my guess when I should have stuck to my guns.

But yeah from day one I said the XsX was going to be the more powerful console with the PS being the fastest console.

Have said for a long time I believe that will be the tag lines in the marketing war Strongest vs Fastest.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I really don't know when they will tell us the exact timing on their show. Have heard mentions it will be the first week of Aug but nothing concrete and don't be so sure we go all this week only talking about the upcoming Xbox show.



I am looking quite forward to a couple of things in this upcoming show in particular



I was seduced by higher numbers I said for the longest time 10-10.5 TF and right before the reveal I went up to 11 and wish I would have listened to the little birdies.

So I deserve some crap for upping my guess when I should have stuck to my guns.

But yeah from day one I said the XsX was going to be the more powerful console with the PS being the fastest console.

Have said for a long time I believe that will be the tag lines in the marketing war Strongest vs Fastest.

Out of all the insiders that we have you came the closest to the actual TF count. It's why I put more weight in what you say over the others. However always with a grain of salt because things can always change.

Thank you for your contributions btw.

 

[iamvin22]

Lol no sane person would break nda and be proud in such tough economic times to face fine and be let go of job . This whole thing smells fake from xbox discord as per usual . The have done it too many times to believe anything from those guys which odium is a part of .

Also add that he would be implying that both amd and Sony are lying which would be false advertising which both companies would take a serious hit from the the market

 

[jose4gg]

I was searching the Mark Cerny patent that some objects are rendered in other resolutions and I find that.

This patent is from this year !

What do you guys think about it ?

Sony Patent | Varying Effective Resolution By Screen Location By Altering Rasterization Parameters - Nweon Patent

Patent: Varying Effective Resolution By Screen Location By Altering Rasterization Parameters Publication Number: 20200005431Publication Date: 20200102Applicants: SonyAbstractIn graphics processing data is received representing one or more vertices for a scene in a virtual space.

patent.nweon.com

I think this could explain why PS5 can do Ray Tracing in 4K in games like SpiderMan and Ratchet.
And why we can have Native 4K games in consoles without being to heavy, like it would be for PCs.

I was seeing this and Cerny has a lot of patents on it

Really interesting, this is the google version.

US10685425B2 - Varying effective resolution by screen location by altering rasterization parameters - Google Patents

In graphics processing data is received representing one or more vertices for a scene in a virtual space. Primitive assembly is performed on the vertices to compute projections of the vertices from virtual space onto a viewport of the scene in a screen space of a display device containing a...

patents.google.com

 

[SlimySnake]

I really don't know when they will tell us the exact timing on their show. Have heard mentions it will be the first week of Aug but nothing concrete and don't be so sure we go all this week only talking about the upcoming Xbox show.



I am looking quite forward to a couple of things in this upcoming show in particular



I was seduced by higher numbers I said for the longest time 10-10.5 TF and right before the reveal I went up to 11 and wish I would have listened to the little birdies.

So I deserve some crap for upping my guess when I should have stuck to my guns.

But yeah from day one I said the XsX was going to be the more powerful console with the PS being the fastest console.

Have said for a long time I believe that will be the tag lines in the marketing war Strongest vs Fastest.

do you think MS will only have cross gen games at the show? All this power and they are wasting it on last gen ports? I doubt it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

do you think MS will only have cross gen games at the show? All this power and they are wasting it on last gen ports? I doubt it.

Spencer has said there will not be next gen only games for at least a couple of years but thats not saying we wont see a couple at this show.

I hear we are getting 2 mic drop moments in their show (at least what xbox considers mic drop) and thats the exact term I heard.

 

[saintjules]

Spencer has said there will not be next gen only games for at least a couple of years but thats not saying we wont see a couple at this show.

I hear we are getting 2 mic drop moments in their show (at least what xbox considers mic drop) and thats the exact term I heard.

maybe they will announce the next show date at the end of the game event?

Edit: edited prediction

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

A great mic drop would be to announce pre-orders go live, but since the Lockhart won't be shown until August, maybe they will announce the next show date at the end of the game event?

I do not expect pricing or preorders could surprise me though

 

[Rea]

I do not expect pricing or preorders could surprise me though

Probably fable and some next gen games, which will be out in 2 to 3 years later.

 

[saintjules]

I do not expect pricing or preorders could surprise me though

Or rather I should say announcement of the next date at the end of the show. Then we can get more info there.

 

[Tripolygon]

poor guy
He pretends to known something, but knows shit.

PS fans are acting like MisterXmedia.
Secret RDNA5 tech from the future, secret custom black magic ssd, secret 13+TF from parallel dimension.
People still believes

Prove it. Show examples such pie in the sky statements.

Here is a question.

Why is it that there are a certain group of people who are invested in making sure PS5 is seen as less powerful. You would hardly see a thread created to downplay the specs of Series X. Yet you will readily see thread after thread of theories why PS5 is not RDNA 2, does not have ray tracing, does not have RDNA 2 features etc.

 

[Rea]

i wonder why people downplaying ps5 ssd. Hey, just look at the game Ghost of Tsushima, it's a freaking open world game with awesome graphics. And this game's loading time just under 10 secs, with pathetic HDD drive. Can you all imagine what they can achieve with New freaking fast PS5 ssd?

 

[Tiago07]

Really interesting, this is the google version.

US10685425B2 - Varying effective resolution by screen location by altering rasterization parameters - Google Patents

In graphics processing data is received representing one or more vertices for a scene in a virtual space. Primitive assembly is performed on the vertices to compute projections of the vertices from virtual space onto a viewport of the scene in a screen space of a display device containing a...

patents.google.com

Thanks for posting the google version. Is the complete version of the patent and have more details about display areas with different pixel resolution.

This could pontentially be a very good thing for gaming and to have more FPS mode without losing much quality, I think.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

As much as I hate to disagree with my brother Bo, I have things reversed so far. For me, TLOU2 was an 8.5 to 9 because they fumbled the story angle. Gameplay was great. Graphics wise though....GoT so far is just...wow. TLOU2 was awesome, but this is surreal. I have great hopes that the story and missions will take the game into the 10 range for me. We shall see. To be fair with the graphics, it might be the style of graphics that is the most striking right now. The color palette is almost dreamlike sometimes or at least I get that feeling. Only got to play for a few hours last night and about to dig in for the evening to play it till I have to go to sleep, but so far GoT is very impressive!

No harm in disagreeing, life is boring without it So far it's standing 9/10 and seems will push even more! The sword fight is the biggest plus of this game.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Ok thought that many people are bitching about noisy PS4, here's my PS4 Pro than hasn't been cleaned internally, ever, nor the first base model since 2013 are both are pretty silent.

 

[Rea]

Mi

No harm in disagreeing, life is boring without it So far it's standing 9/10 and seems will push even more! The sword fight is the biggest plus of this game.

Mine is solid 9.5/10. The only downside for me is camera angle and no texture detail of slash wound on mongol corpses. LoL.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Mi

Mine is solid 9.5/10. The only downside for me is camera angle and no texture detail of slash wound on mongol corpses. LoL.

Change the camera speed to fast, that's the first thing I did and now it's pretty good. I can see it crawling to 9.5 or 10 for me, I'm really addicted to it! Play it on Hard or never play it.

 

[Cloaka]

Prove it. Show examples such pie in the sky statements.

Here is a question.

Why is it that there are a certain group of people who are invested in making sure PS5 is seen as less powerful. You would hardly see a thread created to downplay the specs of Series X. Yet you will readily see thread after thread of theories why PS5 is not RDNA 2, does not have ray tracing, does not have RDNA 2 features etc.

PS5 is less powerful and that's it.
No one is saying PS5 isn't a great console.
Just stop with this nonsense of secret sauce, 13TF, hidden RDNA3.4.5 future tech bullshit.

 

[Rea]

Change the camera speed to fast, that's the first thing I did and now it's pretty good. I can see it crawling to 9.5 or 10 for me, I'm really addicted to it! Play it on Hard or never play it.

Yeah, combat is really awesome and addicting, never could get enough, side quests are also amazing and there's plenty things to do.

 

[SlimySnake]

Spencer has said there will not be next gen only games for at least a couple of years but thats not saying we wont see a couple at this show.

I hear we are getting 2 mic drop moments in their show (at least what xbox considers mic drop) and thats the exact term I heard.

Thats exciting. i really hope MS knocks it out of the park. I have been waiting to be blown away for over two years now. TLOU2's E3 gameplay was the last time i was like wtf mind blown.

Also, MS has to do deliver. They HAVE to. its been like a decade since they made a truly great game.

 

[Tripolygon]

PS5 is less powerful and that's it.
No one is saying PS5 isn't a great console.
Just stop with this nonsense of secret sauce, 13TF, hidden RDNA3.4.5 future tech bullshit.

Mate stop making up bs. This is the latest effort to downplay PS5 specs.

Sony Principal Graphics Engineer confirms PS5 has custom architecture that is based on RDNA2. (Update: Read OP)

Please see this post for clarity on this thread going forward https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony-principal-graphics-engineer-confirms-ps5-has-custom-architecture-between-rdna1-2-deletes-tweet-about-ml.1556484/page-10#post-259359612 The same engineer who "confirmed sub-RDNA2" further...

www.neogaf.com

Couple of pages up, PS5 does not have ray intersection acceleration core.

(Two seperate devs refusing to spill the beans)
I'm confused. Does the PS5 have hardware dedicated RT cores or not
Yes Ray tracing is obviously capable and evident in Ratchet and clank, and GT7, but whether or not it Hardware accelerated RT makes a huge difference in performance

 

[Dolomite]

Who do you want to believe. Some indie dev (who I blieve doesn't have access to dev kits) or Mark Cerny and the PS5 games that were showcased?

Obviously Cerny is a more reliable source. The person that engineered the console cannot outright lie about what's capable. I just don't remember the Road to PS5 mentioning any dedicated RTcores. I know the PS5 does an amazing job Ray tracing from the console reveal but what an actual 3rd party dev has to say I'll listen to 7 days a week.
This guy damn near violated his NDA and got death threats for saying PS5 is RDNA 1.5. who would make that up for attention and risk their family's safety

 

[Three Jackdaws]

PS5 is less powerful and that's it.
No one is saying PS5 isn't a great console.
Just stop with this nonsense of secret sauce, 13TF, hidden RDNA3.4.5 future tech bullshit.

What a pathetic attempt at reducing and ridiculing discussions on this thread, we are here to talk about next-gen speculation, what on earth were you expecting?

I haven’t even heard the 13 TF rumour in 4 months, as for PS5 featuring tech from future AMD roadmaps, this is not even out the realm of possibility, Sony have done it before with PS4 Pro.

 

[Rea]

Obviously Cerny is a more reliable source. The person that engineered the console cannot outright lie about what's capable. I just don't remember the Road to PS5 mentioning any dedicated RTcores. I know the PS5 does an amazing job Ray tracing from the console reveal but what an actual 3rd party dev has to say I'll listen to 7 days a week.
This guy damn near violated his NDA and got death threats for saying PS5 is RDNA 1.5. who would make that up for attention and risk their family's safety

Ps5 has hardware for RT and Cerny called them intersection engine or something. Basically they are same thing.

 

[Cloaka]

Mate stop making up bs. This is the latest effort to downplay PS5 specs.

Sony Principal Graphics Engineer confirms PS5 has custom architecture that is based on RDNA2. (Update: Read OP)

Please see this post for clarity on this thread going forward https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony-principal-graphics-engineer-confirms-ps5-has-custom-architecture-between-rdna1-2-deletes-tweet-about-ml.1556484/page-10#post-259359612 The same engineer who "confirmed sub-RDNA2" further...

www.neogaf.com

Couple of pages up, PS5 does not have ray intersection acceleration core.

It wasn't me.

What a pathetic attempt at reducing and ridiculing discussions on this thread, we are here to talk about next-gen speculation, what on earth were you expecting?

I haven’t even heard the 13 TF rumour in 4 months, as for PS5 featuring tech from future AMD roadmaps, this is not even out the realm of possibility, Sony have done it before with PS4 Pro.

The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

 

[jose4gg]

It wasn't me.



The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

¿Do We know everything from the PS5 already?
¿Do We know everything from the XSX already?

 

[Tripolygon]

It wasn't me.



The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

Why do you keep arguing with a strawman? Show said pie in the sky statements that you keep saying people are making.

If you want to compare and discuss the specs of both consoles, here let me help you out, we can start from here and talk about what they mean in real world terms,

CPU
Pro - 2.1GHz
XOX - 2.3GHz 9% difference for XOX

PS5 - 8 core 16 threads 3.5GHz
XSX - 8 core 16 threads 3.6GHz 2.6% difference

GPU Teraflop
Pro - 2304 x .900 x 2 = 4.2TF
XOX - 2560 x 1.172 x 2 = 6TF 40% difference for XOX

PS5 = 10.28TF
XSX = 12TF 15% difference

RAM/Bandwidth
Pro 8GB at 217.6 GB/s
XOX 12GB at 326.4 GB/s 40% difference for XOX

PS5 = 16GB @ 448GB/s 22% difference against the 6GB
XSX = 10GB @ 560GB/s and 6GB @ 336GB/s 22% difference for 10GB


Triangle rasterization
Pro 4 X .900 = 3.6 Billion triangles/s
XOX 4 X 1.172 = 4.7 Billion triangle/s 26% for XOX

PS5 - 4 x 2.23 = 8.92 BT/s 20% difference for PS5
XSX - 4 x 1.825 = 7.3 BT/s

Culling rate
Pro 8 X .900 = 7.2 BT/s
XOX 8 X 1.172 = 9.2BT/s 24% difference for XOX

PS5 - 8 x 2.23 GHz = 17.84 BT/s 20% difference for PS5
XSX - 8 x 1.825 GHz = 14.6 BT/s

Pixel fill rate
Pro 64 x .900 = 58 GPixel/s 41% difference for Pro
XOX 32 X 1.172 = 38 GPixel/s

PS5 - 64 x 2.23 - 142.72 GPixel/s 20% difference for PS5
XSX - 64 x 1.825 - 116.8 GPixel/s

Texture fill rate
Pro 144 X .900 = 130 GTexel/s
XOX 160 X 1.172 = 188 GTexel/s 36% difference for XOX

PS5 - 4 x 36 x 2.23 = 321.12 GTexel/s
XSX - 4 x 52 x 1.825 = 379.6 GTexel/s 16% difference for XSX


Literally everything was faster in XOX than PS4 Pro except for Pixel fill rate

Almost everything is faster in PS5 except for Texture fill rate and 15% more TF.

Bonus ray triangle intersection rate

PS5 - 4 x 36 x 2.23 = 321.12 Billion RTI/s
XSX - 4 x 52 x 1.825 = 379.6 Billion RTI/s 16% difference for XSX not 40%

 

[Three Jackdaws]

It wasn't me.



The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

I agree to an extent, I’ve mentioned this before. The Series X will always have the power advantage and no amount of secret sauce can undo that, the PS5 does have double the I/O advanatage and no amount of secret sauce from Microsoft will undo that. Whether it be “velocity” architecture or “SFS”.

How these technologies will be utilised and pushed by developers is a different discussion. PS5 will be able to do things which Series X can’t and likewise Series X will be able to do things which the PS5 can’t. The quicker people understand this nuance, the better.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Doncabesa you’re too generous with your daily reactions.

I feel honoured. Thank you.

 

[Dolomite]

Ps5 has hardware for RT and Cerny called them intersection engine or something. Basically they are same thing.

Thank you. That's all I was looking for.

 

[HawarMiran]

Ok thought that many people are bitching about noisy PS4, here's my PS4 Pro than hasn't been cleaned internally, ever, nor the first base model since 2013 are both are pretty silent.

Because people are exagerating or trying to be funny. My PS4 is quite too. Last game i played on it was Tlou2. It is a running gag at this point. "looking at this trailer, i hope the fans won't propell my PS4 into orbi" badum tsssss. People are whoring for likes on social media

 

[jose4gg]

I do feel there are certain things we haven't seen yet, both MS and Sony didn't just go to the AMD store and buy a GPU/CPU for their machines, both did some customization, what I have seen been discussed here is if these customizations can make the current gap of raw power between the XSX and the PS5 smaller or bigger. That's all.

In order to do this, there are two the types of people, people discussing the architecture, the numbers, and speculating based on devs comments the customization that the PS5 and XSX can have.

And there is another group that wants to make that gap bigger than what it is pushing stupid agendas that haven't been verified and have been denied by Sony, AMD, Epic, etc.

 

[HawarMiran]

It wasn't me.



The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

Sony is playing solo. Since years

 

[B_Boss]

I really don't know when they will tell us the exact timing on their show. Have heard mentions it will be the first week of Aug but nothing concrete and don't be so sure we go all this week only talking about the upcoming Xbox show.



I am looking quite forward to a couple of things in this upcoming show in particular



I was seduced by higher numbers I said for the longest time 10-10.5 TF and right before the reveal I went up to 11 and wish I would have listened to the little birdies.

So I deserve some crap for upping my guess when I should have stuck to my guns.

But yeah from day one I said the XsX was going to be the more powerful console with the PS being the fastest console.

Have said for a long time I believe that will be the tag lines in the marketing war Strongest vs Fastest.

You’re one of the best here ‘Berg . Grateful for whatever you choose to share and show.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I do feel there are certain things we haven't seen yet, both MS and Sony didn't just go to the AMD store and buy a GPU/CPU for their machines, both did some customization, what I have seen been discussed here is if these customizations can make the current gap of raw power between the XSX and the PS5 smaller or bigger. That's all.

In order to do this, there are two the types of people, people discussing the architecture, the numbers, and speculating based on devs comments the customization that the PS5 and XSX can have.

And there is another group that wants to make that gap bigger than what it is pushing stupid agendas that haven't been verified and have been denied by Sony, AMD, Epic, etc.

RedGamingTech, who I believe was the first to leak the rumour about PS5 having RDNA 3 features, has also recently been alluding to that fact that both PS5 and Series X are not “straight RDNA 2” and that both companies heavily customised their GPU’s to accommodate the needs of the console itself, it’s not as simple as just slapping in an RDNA 2 GPU with modified CU counts and Clock Speeds as people are making it out to be.

EDIT: Funnily enough, he’s also said he’s been holding a lot of information back about both consoles because he believes the info will just make the console waring even worse and to be honest, he does have a point.

 

[jose4gg]

RedGamingTech, who I believe was the first to leak the rumour about PS5 having RDNA 3 features, has also recently been alluding to that fact that both PS5 and Series X are not “straight RDNA 2” and that both companies heavily customised their GPU’s to accommodate the needs of the console itself, it’s not as simple as just slapping in an RDNA 2 GPU with modified CU counts and Clock Speeds as people are making it out to be.

EDIT: Funnily enough, he’s also said he’s been holding a lot of information back about both consoles because he believes the info will just make the console waring even worse and to be honest, he does have a point.

Yes, and adding to that there is a part in the "Road to PS5" where Sony clearly states that if AMD liked what Sony built for the PS5 they might use it in the future... This is no conspiracy, the same thing can apply for Xbox, but we do hold some info with those Mark comments that there are things we simply don't know about the PS5 that might or not be in RDNA3 or future releases of AMD...

 

[Rea]

RedGamingTech, who I believe was the first to leak the rumour about PS5 having RDNA 3 features, has also recently been alluding to that fact that both PS5 and Series X are not “straight RDNA 2” and that both companies heavily customised their GPU’s to accommodate the needs of the console itself, it’s not as simple as just slapping in an RDNA 2 GPU with modified CU counts and Clock Speeds as people are making it out to be.

I believe Xbox gpu is more like pc gpu and their whole design is much like PC. On the other hand, ps5 design is heavily customized and their I/O solution and SSD controller totally different than other platforms. People shouldn't be downplaying and underestimating ps5 just because it's has lower CU counts and tflops.

 

[3liteDragon]

Looking at DLSS2.0, PS5 lack of ML could be a big mistake.
MS even added extra sauce to Series X ML...

PS5 can do some form of ML, AMD have said it, Sony have said it. We dont know the finer details as to how, and if its implementation is as good as XSX, but the fact remains it can do, which is part of RDNA 2, as is Raytracing which is also hardware based, give it a rest ppl!

Just gonna put this out there, you don’t need a dedicated chip to do ML. That’s literally why half-precision/lower-precision floating points exist. (FP16/16-bit, FP8/8-bit and FP4/4-bit, Xbox Series X supports these btw)

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …

www.eurogamer.net

Digital Foundry: With over 12 teraflops of FP32 compute, RDNA 2 also allows for double that with FP16 (yes, rapid-packed math is back). However, machine learning workloads often use much lower precision than that, so the RDNA 2 shaders were adapted still further.

Andrew Goossen: We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms. So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning.

So with the EA executive confirming PS5 supports ML, it’s pretty safe to say that the console will also support FP8 and FP4 computation as well.


This also reminds me of rapid-packed math for PS4 Pro, Cerny talked about how using two half-floats (2 16-bit instructions) instead of one full-float (1 32-bit instruction) takes up less space on the vector registers (probably the closest RAM to the CPU/GPU, used for storing instructions before they’re sent to be operated on), allowing for more wavefronts to be run on a CU (extracting more performance out of that CU) now that there’s twice as many variables to be operated on since they’re divided into smaller 16-bit instructions.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

Cerny: Finally, there's better support of variables such as half-floats. To date, with the AMD architectures, a half-float would take the same internal space as a full 32-bit float. There hasn't been much advantage to using them. With Polaris though, it's possible to place two half-floats side by side in a register, which means if you're willing to mark which variables in a shader program are fine with 16-bits of storage, you can use twice as many. Annotate your shader program, say which variables are 16-bit, then you'll use fewer vector registers.

The enhancements in PS4 Pro are also geared to extracting more utilisation from the base AMD compute units.

Cerny: Multiple wavefronts running on a CU are a great thing because as one wavefront is going out to load texture or other memory, the other wavefronts can happily do computation. It means your utilisation of vector ALU (TFLOPs) goes up.

Cerny: Anything you can do to put more wavefronts on a CU is good, to get more running on a CU. There are a limited number of vector registers so if you use fewer vector registers, you can have more wavefronts and then your performance increases, so that's what native 16-bit support targets. It allows more wavefronts to run at the same time.

That quote about upping vector ALU (TFLOPs) utilization should’ve been a dead giveaway as to what they were gonna do with PS5 regarding CU count. There’s no way in hell you’re getting close to the maximum theoretical TFLOPs by adding more CU’s and running them at a standard clock speed. This pretty much shows that 36 CU’s running at an insane clock speed like 2.23GHz on PS5 wasn’t a decision made due to backwards compatibility issues or a last-minute change to the architecture after they got wind of Series X’s specs (lol), PS4 Pro in a way laid out the foundation for PS5’s architecture. Cerny’s goal of trying to hit or get close to that maximum theoretical TFLOPs count started with the PS4 Pro, and it looks like he may have achieved it with the PS5.

This is why I’m more interested in seeing a detailed breakdown of the PS5’s entire APU architecture.

 

[DForce]

The soon people accepts PS5 is less powerful than XSX the better.
Custom Sony HW implementation ins't the same as AMD future RDNA tech.
It can be applied to Xbox too.
There is no secret sauce hw that will change the game in Sony's favor.

People know the PlayStation 5 is less powerful, the problem with people within the Xbox community is that they try to make it appear like there's some large gap in power.

The TF difference cannot be 18%, it has to be larger gap than the XsX and PS4 Pro.
CPU is not less than 4% difference, it has to be much bigger and more powerful.

It can't be RDNA 2, it has to be RDNA 1 or RDNA 1.5.


Cerny confirmed a lot of PS5 features, but he has to be a liar because that's not what Xbox fans want to hear. They rather believe in some random people on Twitter instead of Mark Cerny himself.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I honestly just believe that some people are just interpreting this wrong. The alternative is just insane like you said.

Exposing Lisa Su and Cerny as liars is just extreme in my opinion.

It's not about them being liars.

It's about their audience. The average gamer would barely understand RDNA 1 or RDNA 2, let alone the complexities that come with "RDNA1 with some RDNA2 features". It's far easier to just say, RDNA2. It's not so much about lying.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Obviously Cerny is a more reliable source. The person that engineered the console cannot outright lie about what's capable. I just don't remember the Road to PS5 mentioning any dedicated RTcores. I know the PS5 does an amazing job Ray tracing from the console reveal but what an actual 3rd party dev has to say I'll listen to 7 days a week.
This guy damn near violated his NDA and got death threats for saying PS5 is RDNA 1.5. who would make that up for attention and risk their family's safety

He got death threats?

 

[bumleforce]

general Question here.

I know next gen consoles will be able to do some games at 120. I know a lot of people complain on pc when they are in a game and someone is running at 30 and another is 120 people complain. Do you think people will complain when some people have an advantage on console because someone is playing at 120 in fortnight while another is playing at 60 on another tv? i hope that makes sense.

 

[B_Boss]

RedGamingTech, who I believe was the first to leak the rumour about PS5 having RDNA 3 features, has also recently been alluding to that fact that both PS5 and Series X are not “straight RDNA 2” and that both companies heavily customised their GPU’s to accommodate the needs of the console itself, it’s not as simple as just slapping in an RDNA 2 GPU with modified CU counts and Clock Speeds as people are making it out to be.

EDIT: Funnily enough, he’s also said he’s been holding a lot of information back about both consoles because he believes the info will just make the console waring even worse and to be honest, he does have a point.

Honestly he is merely prolonging the inevitable . When the facts are finally released in full that is when that kind of thing usually gets worse depending on which side one is emotionally aligned with lol.

general Question here.

I know next gen consoles will be able to do some games at 120. I know a lot of people complain on pc when they are in a game and someone is running at 30 and another is 120 people complain. Do you think people will complain when some people have an advantage on console because someone is playing at 120 in fortnight while another is playing at 60 on another tv? i hope that makes sense.

This is a huge question and concern for me. See I thought Sony mentioned something along the lines of “no disparity for our ecosystem” with the PS4-Pro and so now when Bungie says they’ll have cross play between ecosystems (Xbox with Series X, and PS4 with PS5, etc) I was dumbfounded....I was there wondering if there will be chaos and tears due to the advantages and disparity....I really don’t know how it’s all going to work out but great question .

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Wow, so the RDNA 1.5 rumours are back, I thought it was done and dusted after the Mark Cerny Tech Talk as well as Lisa Su's comments. RedGamingTech (who's usually biased towards Series X) even mentioned how Sony played an important role in developing the RDNA 2 architecture and that he heard this from a reliable source. Cerny also mentioned that it was important for the PS5 GPU to be very efficient in terms of power consumption and performance and that AMD achieved this by "re-architecting the GPU" and that this was also an important criteria for PS5's GPU. The ray-tracing implementation is also the RDNA 2 implementation through the intersection engines, same as the Series X. So I'm just not buying this whole RDNA 1.5 thing, and anyone saying that Sony bolted on these features last minute then that is utterly laughable.

I would also like to add some additional comments.

Mark Cerny himself stated during the Tech Talk that “we need higher performance per watt, every time we double the performance of the GPU component we don’t want to find out we’ve doubled the power consumed and the heat produced”. For me this is an important quote as the performance per watt increase from RDNA 1 to RDNA 2 was significant and this along with the logic enhancements as well as physical enhancements (which allowed higher clocks according to AMD) were defining features of the RDNA 2 architecture and were important requirements for the PS5.

This is one of many reasons as to why the whole RDNA 1 with bolted RDNA 2 features doesn’t make sense.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

People know the PlayStation 5 is less powerful, the problem with people within the Xbox community is that they try to make it appear like there's some large gap in power.

The TF difference cannot be 18%, it has to be larger gap than the XsX and PS4 Pro.
CPU is not less than 4% difference, it has to be much bigger and more powerful.

It can't be RDNA 2, it has to be RDNA 1 or RDNA 1.5.


Cerny confirmed a lot of PS5 features, but he has to be a liar because that's not what Xbox fans want to hear. They rather believe in some random people on Twitter instead of Mark Cerny himself.

What does it all equal in the end? Not much. What does it mean for fanboys? Enough to justify their purchase. They either can't afford to get both, or can't get their parents to buy both. This is life or death here. Choose your winner!

Also, I'd just like to add, if fanboys wanna fanboy, they at least focus on the right thing. Tflops are not the thing to focus on which has been said time and time again. There's a 16 CU difference here, so that's what matters. Question is, what does that actually translate to in real-world performance? Maybe enough for a Digital Foundry side-by-side freeze-frame and zoom. It's probably gonna show, but I really doubt it's gonna be enough to justify all this behavior. Than again, fanboys need to justify their console of choice some how. With that said, I lean more PS5 myself because I just think Sony is doing more interesting things hardware wise. Tempest Engine, haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, and PSVR2 (which we all know is coming). I may still get Series X to game with my brother, and I think its Game Pass service is fantastic. Great piece of hardware all around. I think I'll just have to push that purchase a little down the road.

 

[jose4gg]

What does it all equal in the end? Not much. What does it mean for fanboys? Enough to justify their purchase. They either can't afford to get both, or can't get their parents to buy both. This is life or death here. Choose your winner!

Also, I'd just like to add, if fanboys wanna fanboy, they at least focus on the right thing. Tflops are not the thing to focus on which has been said time and time again. There's a 16 CU difference here, so that's what matters. Question is, what does that actually translate to in real-world performance? Maybe enough for a Digital Foundry side-by-side freeze-frame and zoom. It's probably gonna show, but I really doubt it's gonna be enough to justify all this behavior. Than again, fanboys need to justify their console of choice some how. With that said, I lean more PS5 myself because I just think Sony is doing more interesting things hardware wise. Tempest Engine, haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, and PSVR2 (which we all know is coming). I may still get Series X to game with my brother, and I think its Game Pass service is fantastic. Great piece of hardware all around. I think I'll just have to push that purchase a little down the road.

One note, CU count does not matter if the clock speed is different, there have been multiple post in this thread explaining that, and basically the same video “Road to ps5” explain the same topic too ... that is definitely something that does NOT matter...

 

[longdi]

Just gonna put this out there, you don’t need a dedicated chip to do ML. That’s literally why half-precision/lower-precision floating points exist. (FP16/16-bit, FP8/8-bit and FP4/4-bit, Xbox Series X supports these btw)

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …

www.eurogamer.net

So with the EA executive confirming PS5 supports ML, it’s pretty safe to say that the console will also support FP8 and FP4 computation as well.

This also reminds me of rapid-packed math for PS4 Pro, Cerny talked about how using two half-floats (2 16-bit instructions) instead of one full-float (1 32-bit instruction) takes up less space on the vector registers (probably the closest RAM to the CPU/GPU, used for storing instructions before they’re sent to be operated on), allowing for more wavefronts to be run on a CU (extracting more performance out of that CU) now that there’s twice as many variables to be operated on since they’re divided into smaller 16-bit instructions.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

That quote about upping vector ALU (TFLOPs) utilization should’ve been a dead giveaway as to what they were gonna do with PS5 regarding CU count. There’s no way in hell you’re getting close to the maximum theoretical TFLOPs by adding more CU’s and running them at a standard clock speed. This pretty much shows that 36 CU’s running at an insane clock speed like 2.23GHz on PS5 wasn’t a decision made due to backwards compatibility issues or a last-minute change to the architecture after they got wind of Series X’s specs (lol), PS4 Pro in a way laid out the foundation for PS5’s architecture. Cerny’s goal of trying to hit or get close to that maximum theoretical TFLOPs count started with the PS4 Pro, and it looks like he may have achieved it with the PS5.

This is why I’m more interested in seeing a detailed breakdown of the PS5’s entire APU architecture.

Thats the thing. MS talks about added custom ML hardware beyond RPM.
Cerny has not talked about ML, in fact, Cerny hasnt really been as open with PS5 as we liked.
And im still concerned about the insane GPU clock speed. It reminds to be seen how long and how often PS5 can deliever its max theoretical performance...

This is what Mark himself said
"they expect the gpu to spend most of its time at or close to 2.23ghz and perfomance."

 

[Dave_at_Home]

One note, CU count does not matter if the clock speed is different, there have been multiple post in this thread explaining that, and basically the same video “Road to ps5” explain the same topic too ... that is definitely something that does NOT matter...

Really? I have seen Cerny's talk and got the gist of what he was saying. I mean, the clock speed advantage is good for the PS5, but I don't think it completely makes up for the CU difference. I guess I could be wrong here, though. From the rumbling all over, it seems the Series X can simply "push more" at the end of the day due it being "wider." What I've been arguing is, despite this, there wont be this side-by-side stark difference. Willing to read more on this if I can be pointed in the right direction.