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Old Empire.
Member
Don’t be telling others what they can't post.. You're just like everyone else.
Sony confirmed their clocks are variable (fact 1)
Variable means not consistent, subject to change. The 10TF is not going to be there for all games, Sony even openly admits that’s the case.
FranXico
Member
Expect nothing. 5/5 form factor reveal makes too much sense. Sony never does sensible things.
MasterCornholio
Member
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Fake
Member
But Sony normally do in response to something.
Agnostic2020
Member
I explained to you already what variable as per sony themselves means. It varies from 10.1 tf to 10.3 tf and that happens rarely. There is no 9 tf. Thats a lie created by few ms related PRs. If you have a legitimate source showing why it goes to 9tf I will be glad to look at it . I ll wait. Lol
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44alltheway
Member
ehhh I don't think he does
FranXico
Member
Honest question, do you sincerely think that "the 12TF" of the Xbox Series X is "going to be there for all games"?
MasterCornholio
Member
I mean if it's 10.3TF 95% of the time nobody is going to care to be honest. However if it's 7-8TF 95% of the time then it's going to be a huge deal.
I guess it depends on how sustainable that number will be and whether or not anyone will notice the drop while gaming.
And even then not all games will need 10.3TF of power. Some will play just fine at 6TF so there's no need to stress to the hardware in those situations.
FranXico
Member
I even suspect neither console GPU is going to run the latest Ass. Creed at more than 8TF...
Edit: and yes, I know a lot of people will mock me for the above sentence.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Ofcourse . That would be more than enough to hit 4k for cross gen games .
MasterCornholio
Member
I certainly don't see games like Cuphead needing 12TF of power to run at 4K 60FPS.
FranXico
Member
I mean, I was joking, but obviously the cult lives on.
Agnostic2020
Member
Unfortunately Windows central and xbox youtubers constantly say ps5 is 9.2 tf from github till this day . And their viewers believe them and this is the result of that
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I was only joking. As if I wouldn't see the hypocrisy in such a statement.
We even repeatedly mentioned PS5 and XSX... so, now we're not delusional any more?
MasterCornholio
Member
No RT
8 TF Console
RDNA1
12GB Ram
2GHZ GPU
Let's forget about GitHub and discuss the numbers that we currently have from both console makers. I believe that's a pretty sensible thing to do.
FeiRR
Banned
They keep spawning, sarge. They just keep spawning.
FranXico
Member
I'd like some SoR4 at 8k120Ummm hello 8k 120 duhhh
I can tell right now that both PS5 and XBSX won't get to 10.3 and 12 TF ever in any game.
That's why it's called "maximum theoretical performance".
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is funny because Cerny literally talked about the implementation, and making sure that they eliminated all bottlenecks that would've kept them from fully utilizing the 100x boost in SSD speeds.
This is where he talks about how a 10x increase in SSD speed only increases the loading times by 2x on the ps4. And how the goal with the PS5's I/O was to ensure the 100x SSD speed boost translates to 100x loading and streaming.
Here is a rule of thumb. When you have to invent marketing friendly terms like the velocity architecture, that means you are compensating for something. We saw this in action already. The load times on the demos shown were still only 4x faster than the xbox one versions. state of decay still took almost 10 seconds. whereas spiderman loaded in sub second. Literally a fade in, not even a fade out was needed in that demo we all saw. technically, it should only take 5 seconds to fill 12.5 gb of vram on the series x. But it took twice as long. And you dont even need to load 12.6gb of state of decay right away. you should be able to load 5gb max in 2 seconds. So why did it take 9+ seconds? Why didnt their fancy velocity architecture handle everything gracefully and by itself?
So if anything, despite all the custom stuff MS has done for the I/O, they are likely not even utilizing the 40x boost in SSD speed. all the work that they did in the velocity architecture was stuff they would've done to utilize the increase in SSD speed. they didnt go above and beyond like Sony has done with the I/O.
And you know what, thats ok. They went above and beyond with the GPU and thats good enough. there is absolutely no reason to downplay the SSD and I/O stuff Sony is doing. No reason to question Cerny after he's already been proven right twice. Everyone including DF laughed when he said in the first wired article that his SSD was faster than any SSD on the market. Cerny didnt lie about that. Everyone including DF and you questioned whether RT was hardware accelerated or audio only, and accused Cerny of lying. He wasn't. Now when he says the I/O lets them fully utilize the 100x increase in SSD, you better believe it. The man has earned it.
FranXico
Member
And that just shows that the best games are not necessarily the ones that push the GPU the hardest.
MasterCornholio
Member
Ummm hello 8k 120 duhhh
But you still don't need 12TF of power to run the game at 4K 60FPS.
Radical_3d
Member
Old Empire.
Member
How will the PS5 sustain the same Raytracing as the X having a lower CU number?
How will the PS5 keep a consistent 60fps 4K with an inferior GPU? You think it still stay around 10tf with raytracing and a higher frame rate?
You ignore it’s a boosted clock, that variable, it not steady clock. X clock does not drop.
There no way the PS5 can match the X performance. You're going to see with raytracing the X superior specs matter.
. I let you live in your bubble that the PS5 will keep up.
You going to see I was right when consoles are out.
Agnostic2020
Member
This is funny because Cerny literally talked about the implementation, and making sure that they eliminated all bottlenecks that would've kept them from fully utilizing the 100x boost in SSD speeds.
This is where he talks about how a 10x increase in SSD speed only increases the loading times by 2x on the ps4. And how the goal with the PS5's I/O was to ensure the 100x SSD speed boost translates to 100x loading and streaming.
Here is a rule of thumb. When you have to invent marketing friendly terms like the velocity architecture, that means you are compensating for something. We saw this in action already. The load times on the demos shown were still only 4x faster than the xbox one versions. state of decay still took almost 10 seconds. whereas spiderman loaded in sub second. Literally a fade in, not even a fade out was needed in that demo we all saw. technically, it should only take 5 seconds to fill 12.5 gb of vram on the series x. But it took twice as long. And you dont even need to load 12.6gb of state of decay right away. you should be able to load 5gb max in 2 seconds. So why did it take 9+ seconds? Why didnt their fancy velocity architecture handle everything gracefully and by itself?
So if anything, despite all the custom stuff MS has done for the I/O, they are likely not even utilizing the 40x boost in SSD speed. all the work that they did in the velocity architecture was stuff they would've done to utilize the increase in SSD speed. they didnt go above and beyond like Sony has done with the I/O.
And you know what, thats ok. They went above and beyond with the GPU and thats good enough. there is absolutely no reason to downplay the SSD and I/O stuff Sony is doing. No reason to question Cerny after he's already been proven right twice. Everyone including DF laughed when he said in the first wired article that his SSD was faster than any SSD on the market. Cerny didnt lie about that. Everyone including DF and you questioned whether RT was hardware accelerated or audio only, and accused Cerny of lying. He wasn't. Now when he says the I/O lets them fully utilize the 100x increase in SSD, you better believe it. The man has earned it.
He is never willing to give sony benefit of doubt even after he consecutively calls cerny liar and then proved he is wrong time after time.
On the other hand MS farts and he says that was the best implementation of cpu ssd ram hbm raytracing I have ever smelled
He has done this dance too many times that we all know him too well to take him seriously .it is what it is
Agnostic2020
Member
Again all u wrote shows u have no technical knowledge which is fine but trying to push technical discussion doesn't work unfortunately.
Rt is dependent on CU count which is in xsx favour but also gpu clock which is in ps5 favour.
Again for 100 times I told u variable clock for ps5 means between 10.1 to 10.3 but most of the time 10.3 so it is sustained in that range .if you think it goes lower than that u have to show me the proof. I wont take ur word for it unfortunately. So again I m waiting for the proof .
Xsx will have 18% resolution advatage and in RT heavy scenes xsx will have advatage .
Ps5 will have advatage in load times, better LOD and less pop ins
Fps will be same for both .
Please be around once vs videos come out .
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MasterCornholio
Member
I think that's the really big issue for people right now is that there isn't any proof to how low the TF count drops. The only thing we have is what Cerny said about the drop being a couple of percent for a 10% power drop. Assuming that it's 2% the power drop would need reduce around 50% to reach 9.2TFs. And if true I don't see that ever happening.
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but that is how I understand it at the moment.
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Radical_3d
Member
Yes please. Don’t report this guy. I want him here when November DF videos hit YouTube.
FranXico
Member
That's not correct. The relationship is not linear.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
There's kinda no point even talking about RDNA 3 when we still don't have a full window into all of what RDNA 2 is. But it's a guarantee that both consoles almost certainly have features unique to their specific platform needs that likely won't be in RDNA 2, and may not necessarily be in RDNA 3 either and could maybe appear in something later. That doesn't necessarily make those potential features more advanced than features already announced, we just know that AMD and Nvidia are constantly iterating on their architecture and updating it as they find reasonable use cases.
Cerny already confirmed one potential feature, it's the PS5's GPU cache scrubbers. That was a Sony suggested customization or change. He says if that appears in a future AMD GPU, and it might, it would mean that they had a successful collaboration with AMD that produced features useful in the PC space. On the Xbox side, we seem to know about a few more. Their implementation of sampler feedback streaming is unique to Series X. Specifically, they have hardware texture filters built into the GPU (fully custom to Xbox Series X) that a microsoft graphics R&D engineer has confirmed are not part of standard RDNA 2. Then there's the fact we don't fully understand yet all of what DirectStorage is and what specific features are required for this to be applicable. Microsoft has said they will eventually bring it to PC. I bring this up because it's clear it's in part responsible for how the GPU can talk to the SSD and use it as virtual RAM. So toss in DirectStorage and whatever hardware support is around it, such as the decompression unit that's also designed for Microsoft's BCPack, a custom compression system specifically for GPU textures that DirectStorage almost certainly helps to manage. That could be a potential beyond RDNA2 feature.
Meaning we can also toss in Sony's kraken decompression unit as likely a potential feature enhancement that may not be apart of RDNA2 also, or it could be. Afterall, it was AMD who unveiled Radeon SSG where an SSD is literally bolted onto a GPU and usable as expandable memory, so i find it highly unlikely they didn't seek to further role that work into their PC high end consumer cards.
Keep in mind I am not saying that Microsoft's and Sony's SSD implementations are the same, I honestly don't think they are, only that there are obviously some similar concepts or thought processes at play, because we really don't have a full window into all that both sides are doing, just a high level overview at best. Anyway, it's entirely possible that such changes on the PC side may require more time because these consoles had far more immediate need for certain features than, say, the PC did, meaning all these considerations and hardware built in for the SSDs could actually be beyond RDNA2 features only because the consoles needed them now. So I say let's wait to find out. But there's no doubt that both Sony and Microsoft both have all sorts of modifications to their GPUs because their specific developers may have asked for things or made requested (almost certainly did) and they themselves may have felt there were improvements required in certain areas.
Take for example, Horizon Zero Dawn or the Last of Us 2 and Halo Infinite. All 3 of those developers may have specific quirks in their game engines that are specific to how their game is designed and may make a request of Sony or Microsoft to increase their capability in a specific regard, and that by doing so it will have a direct impact on their ability to do specific things in their games. Those things while they may not get the headlines like ray tracing or VRS or DLSS may still be extremely important and be features that are actually beyond RDNA2 and that could make it into later architectures if AMD is learning that this technique is becoming more common on games. They may end up deciding "okay, we need our GPU to handle these specific tasks better."
So THAT is what features beyond RDNA 2 may actually entail, specific optimizations for doing certain tasks better, but what I think most fans are doing is treating these secret RDNA 3 or RDNA 4 features as things that will blow features like Mesh Shaders, VRS, Ray Tracing away or at least be on par. It's possible, but then highly unlikely because it likely would have been discussed already because then that would mean it was an innovation brought on by Sony or Microsoft, meaning there is far less reason for them to not talk about it. So far it's been Microsoft who has been more willing to talk about all the new things they did, but then Cerny's presentation contained a lot of info also. People are treating it as if he barely said anything. He likely didn't say all, but he likely got all the major headliners out that are meant to be game changing GPU capability. The rest may be specific to how all these developer's existing or upcoming game engines are designed. I guarantee there are things specific in Xbox Series X that will make Halo Infinite's engine run better. I guarantee there are things in Playstation 5 that is optimal and uniquely designed for the next God of War or the next Horizon Zero Dawn.
So, yes, there are many customizations and features in these consoles that are likely not in RDNA 2 that's dropping this year and might arrive later. In fact, based on some of the requested developer modifications, they may invent new innovative capabilities from those, same as what happens in each cycle. Remember Sony said they had specific work done designed to better handle checkerboard rendering on PS4 Pro? These are the kinds of things that I'm certain was done across both consoles and is likely not RDNA 2 specific. Why else does Cerny stress they didn't just take a PC part. Why else does Microsoft's Jason Ronald and another graphics engineer stress that they built a lot of custom hardware into the Series X? Because developers have needs and desires, and so do they for where they want their games to go.
Hopefully this better explains the whole RDNA 3 and 4 craziness. We don't know what will make it into the newer architectures. We don't even know what's in RDNA 2, but just know that Sony's first party teams had requests and Sony likely did their best to oblige in order to specifically enhance their 1st party games or address specific weak points or bottlenecks to further gain. Same on the Microsoft side, and then we all know the important role that 3rd party plays to both consoles. They had input also. DICE gave input, iD software made suggestions, Epic Games made suggestions for Unreal existing and unreal for the future. You KNOW they talked to Rockstar, you know they talked to Ubisoft Montreal and Bungie and CDProjekt Red. Basically these consoles are likely loaded with all kinds of little tweaks and customizations, but just don't expect magic bullet solutions to evaporate raw performance advantages or certain features. Just trust that both consoles will kick ass especially for their first party and many 3rd party titles because they were designed to do just that.
MasterCornholio
Member
So how much would it have to drop to reach 9.2TFs?
icerock
Member
Next gen lord of ring pics here guys :
First next gen Gameplay Pics: Lord of the Rings(PS5,Pc,XSX)
More at : https://www.allgamesdelta.net/2020/05/the-lord-of-rings-gollum-first.html?m=1 Looks OK I guess. A bit uninspired design imo.www.neogaf.com
This probably being unveiled on Thursday MS event ?
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea i highly doubt clock frequency drop and power draw have linear correlation.
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FranXico
Member
The target never was TFs, it was to keep the GPU+CPU within the fixed power (or rather, watts) budget.
9.2TFs would be 2GHz frequency, as per definition.
What you should be wondering is, by how much do I reduce power consumption by lowering the GPU clock by 230MHz?
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
We're doing the insider thing again I see lol. Not you specifically, but where information is expected to drop. In fact, it's outright been announced on one side, and naturally we don't expect the other to just sit on their hands while it happens, so, predictably, the pot stirring begins anew so that in the event something happens everybody will be like "Look, he posted a gif, so he knew and clearly hinted it was coming."
I prefer people to do more like what shinobi did when he flat out just said things instead of playing games and beating around the bush about what they're implying. Those are actually verifiable
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Thanks for the detailed post. Always interesting to read about the tech in detail. The above quote makes things so much clearer for me in two simple sentences.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well he's been right about some things and wrong with others. At this point I do pay attention to him but I'm aware that there's a possibility that he might be wrong.
Are you an insider BTW? I've been reading some of your posts and it seems that you might have some inside knowledge.
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea x1x has zen cpu and vega gpu haven't u heard ? His insider info are spot on I think
Metroiddarks
Member
Sorry maybe I lost something why tomorrow, for the random tuesday thing ? If this happens maybe is just a teardown of the console05/05/20 I like that! I hope Sony goes for that, its smart
I know I poke at Sony a lot just for fun but I really am excited to finally see the console and some new 1st party stuff!
Agnostic2020
Member
Finally a good post which I can agree with . I m shocked to be honest haha
MasterCornholio
Member
Yea x1x has zen cpu and vega gpu haven't u heard ? His insider info are spot on I think
I'm hearing some things for the first time from him and I'm not able to keep track of all the insiders here.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
It's all common sense (sometimes not lol) speculation on my part. I don't really have any deep insider knowledge. I know people in the industry, have friends and sometimes hear things from those friends, but not nearly enough to have a window into actual plans. I'm out here guessing and desperate for more info like the rest of you.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Wouldn't they announce something big like that ahead of time?
Agnostic2020
Member
To answer ur question no he is not an insider. He is an xbox enthusiast
MasterCornholio
Member
Thank you for the clarification. We pretty much are all in the same boat here. I can't wait until it's all over though. I really want to see the games more than anything at this point.
Metroiddarks
Member
Yes you are right but I don't know man could be.
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