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[itsgreen]

Well, here's 360's leaked specs from over a year before launch

That has always been my main reason why I think they won't change anything significant from the leaked specs.

This thing has been set in stone for probably a year. These specs is what you are going to get. Maybe a small clock tweak, but nothing significant. Nothing that would overlap a 600GFLOP difference. (This would require a significant higher clock, higher clock means not just more power, but relatively more power, you are getting into a world of hurt when it comes to cooling (for a device that is set in your livingroom)).

In the end, Durango will have its advantages, be it power, size, price, software. That said I would love MS to target PS4 specs

 

[chrizzl0r]

good morning

Awesome. Alan Wake 2 ftw. I'm begging.

 

[KidBeta]

Ok, than kidbeta could be right because of 16 gb rumor (which would be too high for me because of the late change to 8gb gddr5 but as I can't prove otherwise...)

I've think some changes are certainly possible I'm just weary of any major hardware changes, changes which are softer (ram amount, clocks) are doable obviously depending on yields and what not.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

This might possibly be the last traditional console reveal we see, that's more than reason enough to be excited.

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if we will have another traditional console generation, because I somehow doubt that the internet infrastructure will improve that much in the next 6 years so that game streaming is a a viable mass market business model. I wonder what specs a PS5 or Xbox 4 could have... GPU with 12 TFLOPS, 128GB RAM (1TB/s) ... the future will be amazing. ^^

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

I think its highly unlikely you will see some if any exclusive jrpgs for the nextbox.

You have no reason to say that. Wait, actually you do have a reason, you don't want there to be any.

 

[c0de]

I've think some changes are certainly possible I'm just weary of any major hardware changes, changes which are softer (ram amount, clocks) are doable obviously depending on yields and what not.

We know your opinion from countless posts, yes.

 

[KidBeta]

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if we will have another traditional console generation, because I somehow doubt that the internet infrastructure will improve that much in the next 6 years so that game streaming is a a viable mass market business model. I wonder what specs a PS5 or Xbox 4 could have... GPU with 12 TFLOPS, 128GB RAM (1TB/s) ... the future will be amazing. ^^

I think these numbers for the next generation in 5 so years are actually a little low.

 

[TheKayle]

And how is that important? So we have...

PS4 audio solution: Capable of 7.1 PCM

X3 audio solution: Capable of 7.1 PCM + Kinect 3D audio tasks

I don't see how it will affect the whole system performance, when the PS4 solution can still do all standard tasks?

i really dont know what the ps4 audio block do in hardware..and what in software..

this an answer from bkillian

"See, I could make a resistor DAC capable of outputting 5.1 sound. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be good enough for you (And 6 printer ports seems overkill anyway )
What we're talking about is the mixing that happens to every sound in the game _before_ it gets the final mix to output.
Let's take a racing game, for instance: We have noise generated by the engine. We have the sounds from each of the tires, filtered by the cockpit, and 3d positioned. We have the wind noise. We have the crowd noise, one or more per crowd, dopplered, filtered and 3d positioned. Then we have noise from each car on the track, dopplered, filtered and 3d positioned.

If done right, this can be mixed into a stereo or a 5.1 or 7.1 mix and will be very immersive. A lot more "bang for your buck" than an extra CU (or 10% more graphics, essentially). People underestimate the importance of audio in games, especially AAA games.
Let's say you're doing a 5.1 end mix, for a single crowd noise, per audio frame, you need a SRC (doppler) -> Filter (Cabin) -> Equalizer (Cabin) -> 5 volume settings (3d positioning, ignore the bass) -> 6 Mixers (one per channel)
And you need to do that for _every_ sound in the game, at a minimum. I'm even ignoring compressor effects and DSP effects. The cabin filter is more likely a convolution filter with an impulse, which is expensive. Some effects are cheaper in the frequency domain, but then you need a Fourier and inverse Fourier, so you don't bother unless you have a ton of filters that would benefit from it.

There's a reason there are companies that make their entire living just providing audio engines for games. (Like Audiokinetic WWise or FMOD). Game sound is not just playing back an MP3."

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1731553&postcount=2987

 

[Angelus Errare]

Going by the rumored specs, Xbox's audio chip S.H.A.P.E. easily seems a step beyond whatever Sony has cooked up. Then again I'm only saying that based on what I've read about the chip and the lack of info on PS4's audio chip. But I don't expect PS4's audio chip to be as amazing. I could be wrong though.

/shrug

 

[iMax]

Time is always a factor, you might want to actually look into eletronics manufacturing. As a product designer who works from time to time works on eletronics, your statement is nonsensical.

And you're comparing Sony to Microsoft, while I'm comparing Microsoft's past console to Microsoft's current consoles. Unless I'm missing something...Sony and Microsoft are two different companies. And PS4's specs leaked specs have pretty much remained the same minus memory increase. Unless we're counting super vague 2011 "specs" in which PS4 would have a 4 core 32bit processor...which makes no sense since AMD stopped making 32bit processors back in 2006/7 D:

But even if we go back to the 2011 murmurings, even they stated Xbox would be 1.2TFLOPs.

I mean here's PS4's leaked specs from July of 2012 (via lolbin).



So yea...relatively exactly the same minus bandwidth decrease, memory increase (but no change in the memory controller) and a switch from Steamroller to Jaguar. Like I stated earlier, the leak specs have a 65%+ chance of being right, fortunately or unfortunately. But there is still a chance that MS went in a completely different direction hardware wise back in 2012. That stated, MS switching hardware as a kneejerk reaction to Sony's unveiling in Feburary? lolno. Can the hardware be different? Definitely. Personally going by numerous past trends on leak to final hardware, I'm not holding my breath.

Honestly I suggest people expect the hardware to be the same so in the case it is different you're expectations are blown away. Versus expecting the hardware to be different/vastly more powerful and have your hopes and dreams crushed when they're not.

But that's me

/shrug.



8GB for main memory (DDR3) and they had a 1.5GB GPU (or was it 2GB?). Basically a PC.

Thanks for the advice, but actually, I think you'll find that Microsoft are in a much better position to make significant changes later in the development cycle, not to mention the fact that they have a history for developing multiple variants of their products throughout the planning stages. Microsoft doesn't want a Wii U on their hands. Why do you think Microsoft hasn't even mentioned a next-gen Xbox until this week? It's because they want to nail down final specs before they ship. Until that point, they need to keep the door open in case they need to delay, which it seems they haven't.

That bold section up above is my point. Sony changed their specs, yet people on GAF think Microsoft hasn't, despite being in a much better position to do so.

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

 

[nhlducks35]

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if we will have another traditional console generation, because I somehow doubt that the internet infrastructure will improve that much in the next 6 years so that game streaming is a a viable mass market business model. I wonder what specs a PS5 or Xbox 4 could have... GPU with 12 TFLOPS, 128GB RAM (1TB/s) ... the future will be amazing. ^^

Nvidia said that gaming consoles coming out in 2019 would be capable in the tens of teraflops, so we will see.

 

[TheKayle]

Thanks for the advice, but actually, I think you'll find that Microsoft are in a much better position to make significant changes later in the development cycle, not to mention the fact that they have a history for developing multiple variants of their products throughout the planning stages. Microsoft doesn't want a Wii U on their hands. Why do you think Microsoft hasn't even mentioned a next-gen Xbox until this week? It's because they want to nail down final specs before they ship. Until that point, they need to keep the door open in case they need to delay, which it seems they haven't.

That bold section up above is my point. Sony changed their specs, yet people on GAF think Microsoft hasn't, despite being in a much better position to do so.

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

totally agree

ms was from the start in a better positiong than sony .(expecially under the r&d and economical position)..but I DONT KNOW WHY..everyoen is thinkin ms is pulling a wii

2 days then crows for everyone

 

[c0de]

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

I always laughed at people who believed this. Of course both companies were well-informed what the competition is doing.

 

[KidBeta]

totally agree

ms was from the start in a better positiong than sony .(expecially under the r&d and economical position)..but I DONT KNOW WHY..everyoen is thinkin ms is pulling a wii

2 days then crows for everyone

Avatar bets then, I'm willing.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

You have no reason to say that. Wait, actually you do have a reason, you don't want there to be any.

Exactly. Shit like that is so annoyingly transparent.

 

[Pistolero]

I remember that leak of the 360 hardware like it was yesterday. Almost a year and half before the console shipped. Man, time flies!

everyoen is thinkin ms is pulling a wii

The leaked specs by VGleaks and Eurogamer sound NOTHING like a Wii-U situation. See, you don't know what you're talking about...

 

[Rooster]

Thanks for the advice, but actually, I think you'll find that Microsoft are in a much better position to make significant changes later in the development cycle, not to mention the fact that they have a history for developing multiple variants of their products throughout the planning stages. Microsoft doesn't want a Wii U on their hands. Why do you think Microsoft hasn't even mentioned a next-gen Xbox until this week? It's because they want to nail down final specs before they ship. Until that point, they need to keep the door open in case they need to delay, which it seems they haven't.

That bold section up above is my point. Sony changed their specs, yet people on GAF think Microsoft hasn't, despite being in a much better position to do so.

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

What are you basing this on?

 

[KidBeta]

What are you basing this on?

Hopes and dreams.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

So yea...relatively exactly the same minus bandwidth decrease, memory increase (but no change in the memory controller) and a switch from Steamroller to Jaguar.

In other words, completely different, except for the GPU.

 

[iMax]

What are you basing this on?

Economics, History, and Common Sense.

Hopes and dreams.

lolz

 

[StuBurns]

The question isn't if MS knew the PS4 specs, or if they can afford to match them, or if they had time to pivot since they found out the PS4 specs, it's if MS give a shit. The most powerful system hasn't won since the SNES, it doesn't matter if they match Sony or not.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I hope they show the controller

 

[TheKayle]

Nvidia said that gaming consoles coming out in 2019 would be capable in the tens of teraflops, so we will see.

a 7990 is capable of 8tf already

 

[yurinka]

Hey look Gates and Ballmer having fun :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7abNYC0KQI&feature=share

 

[KidBeta]

Economics, History, and Common Sense.



lolz

Can you show me one time that microsoft has increased or changed something aside from ram amount so close to release?.

 

[iMax]

In other words, completely different, except for the GPU.

Hahaha wow, I completely missed that! "Yeah, we didn't change much, just the entire system architecture. No biggie".

 

[TheKayle]

Avatar bets then, I'm willing.

me 10/15% (in ps or xbox favor)

you 50% (in ps favor)

power difference right?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Personally, I'm not listening to any of the hardware "experts' in here. Everybody and their mother, even Eurogamer, suggested that the PS4 ending up with 8GB of GDDR5 was impossible. People can act like they knew it was possible or could happen all along after the fact, but I remember precisely what I was reading from the same people currently talking about what's possible from what isn't possible.

Can you show me one time that microsoft has increased or changed something aside from ram amount so close to release?.

Not like it really matters, as I think specs aren't all that vital, but you can't even point to a single time where they haven't, because you don't know. It's that simple. You nor I know about what other designs Microsoft may have been considering at any point in time leading up to their previous console launches. All we really know about is what they ultimately decided to settle on and then proceeded to tweak to their satisfaction. Me, personally, I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed if the specs for the next xbox turned out to be precisely what vgleaks put out there. I'm not buying a console solely just for the specs. The specs are nice to know, but specs by themselves can't entertain me. Only the games, features and services can accomplish that.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if we will have another traditional console generation, because I somehow doubt that the internet infrastructure will improve that much in the next 6 years so that game streaming is a a viable mass market business model. I wonder what specs a PS5 or Xbox 4 could have... GPU with 12 TFLOPS, 128GB RAM (1TB/s) ... the future will be amazing. ^^

There won't be a new generation in 6 years, this upcoming generation is likely to the longest we've had. Close to a decade, maybe even longer depending on how quickly/widely non traditional internet infrastructure like high speed mobile broadband is rolled out/adopted.

 

[iMax]

Can you show me one time that microsoft has increased or changed something aside from ram amount so close to release?.

Sure, read this. And this. And this.

 

[KidBeta]

me 10/15% (in ps or xbox favor)

you 50% (in ps favor)

power difference right?

No.

Im willing to bet that Durango has a weaker GPU then PS4. Thats it.

 

[TheKayle]

No.

Im willing to bet that Durango has a weaker GPU then PS4. Thats it.

oh cmonnn thats not fair...so you no more poiting at vgleaks stuff?

wanna see that at the end of this 2 days we will agree on a lots of points?

 

[ekim]

Afaik the GPU slides from the Durango Dev summit included a chart which compared raw numbers of 360 and Durango + a multiplier for every compared number. For the flops it was 0.3 TFlops vs. 1.2 TFlops but the multiplier was 8x which would basically result in 2.4 instead of 1.2 TFlops. I don't know what to make out this.

 

[Ales]

MS want powerful, cheap to produce hardware. On paper that is what Durango gives them.
]

Durango described by vgleaks is light years away from being a powerful console.

 

[KidBeta]

Afaik the GPU slides from the Durango Dev summit included a chart which compared raw numbers of 360 and Durango + a multiplier for every compared number. For the flops it was 0.3 TFlops vs. 1.2 TFlops but the multiplier was 8x which would basically result in 2.4 instead of 1.2 TFlops. I don't know what to make out this.

Probably has to do with how efficient GCN is in comparison to the VLIW5 architecture of the 360.

 

[avaya]

Afaik the GPU slides from the Durango Dev summit included a chart which compared raw numbers of 360 and Durango + a multiplier for every compared number. For the flops it was 0.3 TFlops vs. 1.2 TFlops but the multiplier was 8x which would basically result in 2.4 instead of 1.2 TFlops. I don't know what to make out this.

Real world performance is higher than the raw FLOP difference due to better efficiency of GCN vs. 2005 architectures.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Thanks for the advice, but actually, I think you'll find that Microsoft are in a much better position to make significant changes later in the development cycle, not to mention the fact that they have a history for developing multiple variants of their products throughout the planning stages. Microsoft doesn't want a Wii U on their hands. Why do you think Microsoft hasn't even mentioned a next-gen Xbox until this week? It's because they want to nail down final specs before they ship. Until that point, they need to keep the door open in case they need to delay, which it seems they haven't.

That bold section up above is my point. Sony changed their specs, yet people on GAF think Microsoft hasn't, despite being in a much better position to do so.

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

Well according this singapore devs he said MS "already knows",not sure how early btw
http://bbs.a9vg.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=3453777&pid=40583441

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Another crappy effort done while pretending to be interested to my parents on the phone...

 

[Angelus Errare]

Thanks for the advice, but actually, I think you'll find that Microsoft are in a much better position to make significant changes later in the development cycle, not to mention the fact that they have a history for developing multiple variants of their products throughout the planning stages. Microsoft doesn't want a Wii U on their hands. Why do you think Microsoft hasn't even mentioned a next-gen Xbox until this week? It's because they want to nail down final specs before they ship. Until that point, they need to keep the door open in case they need to delay, which it seems they haven't.

That bold section up above is my point. Sony changed their specs, yet people on GAF think Microsoft hasn't, despite being in a much better position to do so.

Also, you think Microsoft only found out about Sony's specs in February? lol

Completely nonsensical the part you bolded was not an indication of Sony changing their specs, the part you bolded was an indication of better informed leaks happening months later. Those 2011 specs were nonsensical, PS4 couldn't have had a 32bit processor because AMD stopped making them in bloody 2006! That stated you completely jettisoned common sense for some crazy story. Common sense would have been the "leaks" from 2011 were off, you argue Sony changed the specs...I don't even.

And no I never once said MS only found out about Sony's specs in February, try to actually read my post with a clear level head instead of angry posting because you see me as attacking MS, you'll get farther. I said I reject the stupid notion that MS changed the specs of their console as a reaction to Sony's Feburary announcement that so many of you are suggesting as the case. Said suggestion has always been met by me with laughter and shaking of the head because it's nonsensical.

Lastly yes I know about having multiple consoles in development, one design is jettisoned and the other one gets full funding. They dumped the alternative to Xbox 360 in late 2003 and contracted IBM to start doing fabrication for Xenon in beginning of 2004 and ATI shortly after with Xenon...then months later we got detailed documentation and diagrams on Xbox 360 as a result. Or simply I can say; post the specs for the alternative Xbox 360 hardware that MS was working on along side the Xenos/Xenon hardware, I'll wait. Also Microsoft doesn't have any hardware manufacturing advantage over Sony if their plan is to have these consoles on store shelves by the end of this year. In fact going by the notion that MS has switched hardware up, they probably have less time than Sony since at this stage, Sony should be entering production.

If MS is still messing around with hardware with only 7 months left in the year, it's totally not coming out in 2013, and somehow I doubt MS would allow Sony any type of lead. Also no one other than crying MS fans are comparing those specs to "Wii U" that is an exclusive MS crying point, so let's not bring it up with me, because I've never once suggested it.

 

[China Dont Care]

I hope they show the controller

The controller is the console, just like Sony.

 

[Pistolero]

Durango described by vgleaks is light years away from being a powerful console.

So is the PS4 then, because the difference is marginal...

 

[nbraun80]

Spec arguing = bullshitter trying to out bullshit the other bullshitter.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Another crappy effort done while pretending to be interested to my parents on the phone...

What game is that?

I vaguely remember the image, but I can't place it.

 

[bigol]

What game is that?

I vaguely remember the image, but I can't place it.

the last remnant

 

[Miles Quaritch]

the last remnant

The Last Remnant, a Square-Enix developed RPG for 360/PC.

That's the one. Thanks.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

What game is that?

I vaguely remember the image, but I can't place it.

The Last Remnant, a Square-Enix developed RPG for 360/PC.

 

[iMax]

Completely nonsensical the part you bolded was not an indication of Sony changing their specs, the part you bolded was an indication of better informed leaks happening months later. Those 2011 specs were nonsensical, PS4 couldn't have had a 32bit processor because AMD stopped making them in bloody 2006! That stated you completely jettisoned common sense for some crazy story. Common sense would have been the "leaks" from 2011 were off, you argue Sony changed the specs...I don't even.

The point I'm making is that leaks are inaccurate, as you've shown.

And no I never once said MS only found out about Sony's specs in February, try to actually read my post with a clear level head instead of angry posting because you see me as attacking MS, you'll get farther.

OK, unnecessary patronisation aside, please point out where exactly I'm going wrong...

That stated, MS switching hardware as a kneejerk reaction to Sony's unveiling in Feburary? lolno.

Yeah, exactly. Microsoft knew about this way before anyone on here did. Are you missing the point? I think you're missing the point. Yep.

Lastly yes I know about having multiple consoles in development, one design is jettisoned and the other one gets full funding. They dumped the alternative to Xbox 360 in late 2003 and contracted IBM to start doing fabrication for Xenon in beginning of 2004 and ATI shortly after with Xenon...then months later we got detailed documentation and diagrams on Xbox 360 as a result. Or simply I can say; post the specs for the alternative Xbox 360 hardware that MS was working on along side the Xenos/Xenon hardware, I'll wait.

Haha sure, you can find them here.

Also Microsoft doesn't have any hardware manufacturing advantage over Sony if their plan is to have these consoles on store shelves by the end of this year. In fact going by the notion that MS has switched hardware up, they probably have less time than Sony since at this stage, Sony should be entering production.

We're still a little early for production. More likely to be later in Q2 or Q3 at the latest. And yes, Microsoft has a very real advantage. They are a ridiculously large corporation compared to Sony and have considerably more resources to pull of changes like this. And you missed my point earlier clearly, but the reason Microsoft hasn't announced anything yet is simply because they want to be able to have the option to delay the next Xbox if necessary. How can you delay something that hasn't been announced? Well, pretty easily, actually. The fact that they're shipping this year spells confidence. And if you can't see that, well, I don't know what else I can say, really. They're not going to willingly ship a dud. All they care about is increasing shareholder wealth. If they can't do that successfully, they wouldn't even bother.

If MS is still messing around with hardware with only 7 months left in the year, it's totally not coming out in 2013, and somehow I doubt MS would allow Sony any type of lead.

<facepalm>

 

[KidBeta]

The point I'm making is that leaks are inaccurate, as you've shown.



OK, unnecessary patronisation aside, please point out where exactly I'm going wrong...

Yeah, exactly. Microsoft knew about this way before anyone on here did. Are you missing the point? I think you're missing the point. Yep.



Haha sure, you can find them here.



We're still a little early for production. More likely to be later in Q2 or Q3 at the latest. And yes, Microsoft has a very real advantage. They are a ridiculously large corporation compared to Sony and have considerably more resources to pull of changes like this. And you missed my point earlier clearly, but the reason Microsoft hasn't announced anything yet is simply because they want to be able to have the option to delay the next Xbox if necessary. How can you delay something that hasn't been announced? Well, pretty easily, actually. The fact that they're shipping this year spells confidence. And if you can't see that, well, I don't know what else I can say, really. They're not going to willingly ship a dud. All they care about is increasing shareholder wealth. If they can't do that successfully, they wouldn't even bother.



<facepalm>

Microsoft can bend even the fabric of time and space with there money, amazing.

 

[Krilekk]

Afaik the GPU slides from the Durango Dev summit included a chart which compared raw numbers of 360 and Durango + a multiplier for every compared number. For the flops it was 0.3 TFlops vs. 1.2 TFlops but the multiplier was 8x which would basically result in 2.4 instead of 1.2 TFlops. I don't know what to make out this.

Dual APUs.

 

[Phonomezer]

55 hours left..