• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Nioh Thread: Defy Death

B

Bloodporne

Member
The game still looks pretty damn hard based on Gwyn's stream, I don't doubt that.

The tension aspect and playstyles the Alpha had going for it seem to be hobbled for a more Souls-ish heavy/slow approach rather than the previous incentive for speed and slickness.

That's what I'm getting from watching for awhile. I'm a massive Souls fan but anything that brings this closer to Souls isn't a good thing in my opinion, we already have plenty of those around. The Alpha was really unique so I hope with yet another round of fan 'feedback' looming after this, it won't turn into a Souls knockoff completely.
 
B

Baalzebup

Member
Serenade_King said:
Why are some of you guys mentioning Souls fans as a reason for the changes? Wouldn't it be more of a "Japan didn't like the game and that's why is being changed"? I remember seeing the feedback and America was really positive on the dificulty while Japan was a lot less pleased during the Alpha.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we had this twitter post from Raven777
raven777 said:
https://twitter.com/bk2128/status/733241686977978370
Click to expand...
Basically the feedback from Asia and Japan were more negative when compared to NA and EU.

Anbec7 said:
So is there like a log of all the changes already?
Click to expand...
Well, we have the list from the Alpha feedback changes thread
 
bronk

bronk

Banned
I had a great time with the alpha and beat both stages. Unlike most people here i'm looking forward to all the changes. Can't wait to play the beta.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
Hentailover said:
As somebody who sucks at video games, there's still a notable decrease of tension. Mainly because of how easy it is to maneuver now, when you don't need to worry about stamina as much. I just dash around like a crazy person and there doesn't appear to be much punishment. Enemies also appear to track you less and in general, I feel way more confident just running into somebody and dashing behind them, when before, I'd carefully kite around even a single enemy of note, as I could be in danger easily even in 1v1 situations.
Click to expand...

I am still expecting plenty of challenge, with some areas being harder than others. It's Team Ninja and no way are they going to turn it into Fable or something. I think I'll be fine.
 
H

Hentailover

Member
ironcreed said:
I am still expecting plenty of challenge, with some areas being harder than others. It's Team Ninja and no way are they going to turn it into Fable or something. I think I'll be fine.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, i am still dying a bunch to the two tongue demons right now, it's just not the same sense of being completely overwhelmed. Like, even kiting enemies around was tough because of how fast and annoying they were. Now, even with these two demons, I am only at risk when actually fighting. if i wanted I could just circle strafe them the whole day
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
I think it was just a bit silly that in the alpha you'd sprint 50 meters and then William would stagger and pant for a moment before recommencing his sprint. The animation doesn't make any sense in combat either, it's stupid.

They should think of another punishment for running out of stamina that actually makes sense and maybe which doesn't take control away from the player.

I agree that a punishment for spamming attacks was a good addition but I don't like the panting for breath thing, either.
 
K

Kaisos

Member
The out-of-breath mechanic was only removed because people didn't fucking understand how to Ki Pulse, and their solution was to remove it entirely rather than explain it better.

That's what people mean by lack of confidence. It's gross.

I guess everyone who's dissatisfied could try sending in feedback, but it's going to be overwhelmed by the people continuing to complain about difficulty and not-Souls either way.
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
Shin-chan said:
I think it was just a bit silly that in the alpha you'd sprint 50 meters and then William would stagger and pant for a moment before recommencing his sprint. The animation doesn't make any sense in combat either, it's stupid.

They should think of another punishment for running out of stamina that actually makes sense and maybe which doesn't take control away from the player.

I agree that a punishment for spamming attacks was a good addition but I don't like the panting for breath thing, either.
Click to expand...

You dont have to pant for breath if you knew what you were doing though.

And I am certain there would have been all kinds of RPG elements to modify the whole system.
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
Kaisos said:
The out-of-breath mechanic was only removed because people didn't fucking understand how to Ki Pulse, and their solution was to remove it entirely rather than explain it better.

That's what people mean by lack of confidence. It's gross.

I guess everyone who's dissatisfied could try sending in feedback, but it's going to be overwhelmed by the people continuing to complain about difficulty and not-Souls either way.
Click to expand...
Wow. That sucks. 😞
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
TimeEffect said:
You dont have to pant for breath if you knew what you were doing though.

And I am certain there would have been all kinds of RPG elements to modify the whole system.
Click to expand...
Yeah, once you learned to conserve stamina the mechanic never played into it much for me. It was basically part of the learning curve and once overcome a none issue. I think it ultimately would have ended up a frustration for new players rather than a part of the depth for experienced ones.

Again I'm not saying have nothing altogether, but the stagger was a bit overkill and not really appropriate in context.

Now the stamina regen mechanics should have been kept in completely because that raises the ceiling whilst not making the game any harder than it already is.
 
B

Bloodporne

Member
The real problem is HOW MUCH they took this fan feedback into the game ripping out the entire out-of-breath mechanic and whatever upgrades etc. may have come with it and so forth.

I fear for the next round of 'fan' nerfing and gouging. Wonder what'll be left of the final product compared to the Alpha.
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
Hopefully it makes for some interesting difficulty modes. Path of the Master Samurai can add all the extra mechanics in. That'd be a fresh take on it.
 
K

Kaisos

Member
Bloodporne said:
The real problem is HOW MUCH they took this fan feedback into the game ripping out the entire out-of-breath mechanic and whatever upgrades etc. may have come with it and so forth.

I fear for the next round of 'fan' nerfing and gouging. Wonder what'll be left of the final product compared to the Alpha.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's less that they changed things and more that they've changed the entire game. It'd ludicrous, like they don't have a plan and don't know what they're doing at all.
 
J

Jimmyfenix

Member
i have also had the two enemies past the spear guy chase me back to the start of the level. didn't they say they would track you as much?
 
H

Hybris

Member
Espada said:
Read the interview on Siliconera with the game's director. They've already stated that they have a very clear goal with Nioh, and aren't taking suggestions that would hurt their ultimate goal with the game. From the few people who've played the E3 2016 demo and the Beta we've heard the difficulty is still there.

These changes seem more like quality of life adjustments more than anything else. Moving the Ki Pulse to high stance will definitely change the flow of things, just like how durability's omission will.
Click to expand...

This isn't quality of life, this is completely removing the most rewarding and skillful play style of the game. Bouncing between high stance for attacks and low stance for dodging is no longer possible according to what people are saying. I'm going to miss that...
 
B

brawly

Member
Shit. My dumbass self deleted the aussie alpha save game. Only have my euro save game. Guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow.

If you start the new area with a new char you have no weapon.
 
T

takoyaki

Member
Replaying the first level from the alpha right now.

I'm glad they fixed the camera and I don't miss weapon/armor durability per se, but combined with the less aggressive/capable enemies the game got a lot easier and I already miss the challenge.

Hope they find a good middle ground for the difficulty in the final game.
 
H

Hentailover

Member
lord_of_flood said:
That sucks. The original control scheme worked just fine. Not sure why they felt the need to change it...
Click to expand...

They needed a button to switch Item shortcuts, since there are now two sets for a total of 8 items, instead of 4 in alpha.

The problem is, switching shortcuts should've been R2, aiming L2, and shooting R2 but only when L2 is held. Why are they so scared of contextual button mappings?
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Those bow controls do look bad. :\ Maybe if we change the control scheme it won't be as bad. Hopefully the final game will have fully customizable controls...

Crab Milk Mickey said:
You still turn around properly when you run while locked on. It's fine.
Click to expand...
Perfect.

Kaisos said:
Souls fans are entirely to blame for this and it's pretty miserable. If there's a worse fanbase, I haven't seen it.
Click to expand...
Wow xD

What a disaster.
Click to expand...
Kaisos said:
Defy Death (because it's basically impossible to die)
Click to expand...
Kaisos said:
That's what people mean by lack of confidence. It's gross.
Click to expand...
Kaisos said:
Yeah, it's less that they changed things and more that they've changed the entire game. It'd ludicrous, like they don't have a plan and don't know what they're doing at all.
Click to expand...
Hahah jesus, drama queen much? Have you even played the beta yet?

Serenade_King said:
Why are some of you guys mentioning Souls fans as a reason for the changes? Wouldn't it be more of a "Japan didn't like the game and that's why is being changed"? I remember seeing the feedback and America was really positive on the dificulty while Japan was a lot less pleased during the Alpha.
Click to expand...
Oy, let's not let facts get in the way of Souls fans bashing, please.
 
L

lord_of_flood

Member
Hentailover said:
They needed a button to switch Item shortcuts, since there are now two sets for a total of 8 items, instead of 4 in alpha.

The problem is, switching shortcuts should've been R2, aiming L2, and shooting R2 but only when L2 is held. Why are they so scared of contextual button mappings?
Click to expand...

Wish I knew. There's no argument for complexity that makes any real sense for this change either, since you would only need to add an additional control section for bow controls when doing control configurations. Not to mention aim L2, fire R2 just generally makes sense.
 
B

Bloodporne

Member
I gotta stop reading the impressions until I try it out myself tomorrow, this is depressing. It's hard to be optimistic about the final game after the devs apparently already went to town on their game with a rusty axe instead of a scalpel the first go round.

Now I wish I wouldn't have played the Alpha so I wouldn't have to consistently compare the final, no doubt weaker version, to its never-to-return glory once it's out haha

EDIT: Fuck about that bow...that thing was super fun in the Alpha. Couldn't they leave anything alone that was cool? So wait, you SHOOT with the same thumb as you aim with how do you hit targets that are even slightly in motion like...every enemy in the game essentially?
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
This game is a masterpiece.
 
G

GwyndolinCinder

Member
Yoshichan said:
This game is a masterpiece.
Click to expand...

This is a joke right, ill post impressions later, but they ain't positive... well apart from the bosses, they were great!

comshoplesce said:
why you don't loot?
Click to expand...

Ill talk more about this after ive had a coffee, but the whole exploring and looting element in this game is dire imo.

Sn4ke_911 said:
Why are you naked and rush through the game?
Click to expand...

Game feels poop with armor and i'd rather have clean no hit kills. (do alot of challenge runs like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrXOJQIrGZk )
 
S

sssstententen

Member
Guys if I download and beat the beta on the Aus Beta but playing on a NA psn, will I get the rewards for my NA account? Or do I need to wait for the NA download?
 
Y

YoungOne

Member
sersteven said:
Guys if I download and beat the beta on the Aus Beta but playing on a NA psn, will I get the rewards for my NA account? Or do I need to wait for the NA download?
Click to expand...

If it worked like the alpha you will need to have the NA beta to get the na content as it will take you to the country's store from where you downloaded the beta.
 
Lord Phol

Lord Phol

Member
GwyndolinCinder said:
This is a joke right, ill post impressions later, but they ain't positive... well apart from the bosses, they were great!
Click to expand...

Really? I haven't played this beta but when I played the last one I thought everything but the bosses were great. Looking forward to see if there has been any changes to them or if the new one(s) are any better.
 
E

E_Darkness

Member
Wait they've ruined the stamina system? They took out the out of breath? That is actually awful. The stamina system was 100% perfect...
 
I

IvorB

Member
Wo-ho now we're talking...

ss_f_09ofs5r.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Outcast: A New Beginning | Review Thread + |OT|
|OT| Analysis Review 2
52
4K
Gamer_By_Proxy replied
  • Poll
Marvel Spider Man 2 | Review Thread
Analysis Retro Hype 25 26 27 28 29
1K
115K
GymWolf replied
Ken Kutaragi is the Greatest 'emperor' Of All Time and remains SIE's only true visionary
Opinion 2
73
4K
consoul replied
Diablo IV, Redfall, Forza Horizon 5 and more getting DLSS 3.0
26
3K
SlimySnake replied
Destroy All Humans! 2 - Reprobed Review Thread
News Analysis Review
32
4K
adamsapple replied
Top Bottom