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NPD Sales Results for November 2013 [Up3: Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, 3DS, Wii U]

PaulLFC

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Jun 30, 2010
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First, you said it yourself. The numbers of KZ2 and KZ3 i quoted are only standalone figures so we don't know how their first month was including bundled copies. The most direct and appropriate comparison would be for the data we do have and know, which is standalone first month sales.

Secondly, gauging a game\series sales\trends is best done based on standalone copies, without bundled copies with hardware because that changes the picture.

Thirdly, if the user base is to blame then why is KZ3 selling only 10k more on a much bigger base is not a potential argument for the franchise waning?

My point is that the Killzone series has been having a negative momentum in sales with each new release. KZ3 has probably lost Sony money and in terms of profitability target it's probably not self-sustainable. If Sony's are willing to continue fund the games and absorb the losses, than that's their decision. But in terms of sales and fan-base the series is on decline and can't financially carry it. The standalone figures of Shadowfall suggest that the trend is continuing.

In my opinion, being a flagship title for a record-breaking console launch would have pretty much the best option in order to try to stem the trend and rejuvenate the sales of the series and improve its sustainability.
I don't see how Sony can be satisfied with the history of the franchise's sales. It doesn't deliver on the game's sales that are expected of something in Killzon's caliber and budgets. And i don't recall Killzone being a notable console-mover.


I accept that KZ3 and SW sold more than the numbers i gave thanks to copies bundled with hardware. I don't accept we should compare one game's standalone sales vs the other's stanalone + bundled.
Whether we do or don't count bundles, it doesn't change the overall point that your argument - KZ SF continuing the "trend" of decline in the franchise - is flawed. If we count bundles, it almost certainly sold more. If we don't count bundles, then SF's sales are still impressive because we know:

a) a rough estimate for PS4s sold, which is much less than PS3s sold by 2011
b) some of that number will have bought SF in a bundle which isn't reflected in the above number.
 

Road

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Jan 21, 2008
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Super happy with next gen attach rates. Thats good news.
they are nearly identitical at 2 now(rounding might give that to Xbox one but I dont even see much of a diff)
Is that tie ratio?

Microsoft said the XBO tie ratio is 2.1 including digital. (They were using their own estimates but) if NPD is getting ~2, then download purchases are ~0.1 per system or ~5%.

Although, were there XBO bundles SKU? That would invalidate (even more) my guess.

The PS2 tie-ratio was 1.9, so it seems the PS4 is just barely above (without including downloads).

I think Nintendo is down like 12% yoy in units, so to the guys above there you go. Nsmbu just destroyed all their offerings now
If you look year-over-year at software sales (units or revenue) for
  • all home consoles
  • all handheld consoles
  • PS3+PS4+360+XBO
Can you tell us what is the situation (up or down, not necessarily numbers)?

Thanks!
 

Camwi

Member
Jan 11, 2008
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Dark Souls is tied with Galaxy 2 as my favorite game last gen, but Souls is an anomaly. I played my PS3 probably three times as much as my Wii, if not more and I would not agree that there was just as much creativity on it. Most of Sony's first party games last gen were celebrations of QTEs and cutscenes.
Again, HUGE exaggeration.

Even just going by your criteria in this particular post, you're saying that -

Flower
The Unfinished Swan
Puppeteer
Ratchet and Clank series
Sly Cooper series
Rain
Journey
Tokyo Jungle
LittleBigPlanet series
War/Starhawk
Gran Turismo series
Twisted Metal
PixelJunk series

- are all nothing but cutscenes and QTEs? Come on dude, Sony makes more than just the God of War series.
 

QaaQer

Member
Jun 13, 2012
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Yeah, but this is really just a supposition cast too often on faceless people. Whenever we have a result we don't like, it's that people have no taste, are irrational actors, or don't know how to make decisions.

It's kind of tiresome. People know what Wii u is. That's exactly why it isn't selling. It's unappealing.
.

Anyone who doubts this, just go look at the empty demo stands, nobody is playing with them. & it is not because they are too stupid to understand that Wii U is not a Wii.

  • games look like 2007, not saying they are bad games, just that they look like last gen beside the x1/ps4 demo stands
  • tablet screen looks like ass compared to every other tablet/phone screen in 2013
  • Nintendo marketing makes everything they touch uncool

It is the most unappealing system in the last 10+ years, an absolute disaster that way.
 

takriel

Member
Apr 11, 2012
7,588
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Lol at people in here thinking that Mario 3D World is just "another generic Mario game", when it is the best-rated next-gen game there is right now.
 
Oct 26, 2007
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the industry is dying. took waaaay to long to swap generations. 5 years should have been the max for both the ps3 and 360. Those software sells and top 10 screams total collapse.
2 million pieces of $400 and $500 hardware sold in a couple of weeks along with all of the other ones, doesn't sound like a dying industry to me
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
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It really is. It's a game that reviewed well on a platform with fans starving for original content...and no one fucking bought it? What the hell went wrong there?

If I wasn't worried about Vita's future in terms of original software before, I am now.
NPD doesn't cover digital sales, so here's hoping Tearaway sold 100x on PSN! I don't buy physical after my VIta was stolen.

the industry is dying. took waaaay to long to swap generations. 5 years should have been the max for both the ps3 and 360. Those software sells and top 10 screams total collapse.
What about the top 10 screams total collapse? Do we even have numbers for most of the top 10? If you're talking about exclusives, look at how many platforms these games are on. You're just plain wrong.
 

Roboleon

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Jan 17, 2013
13,024
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Difference is PS4/Xbone had a couple of games selling better then Mario. Not just one.
Yes, but as you can see I'm talking about the performance of the games here, not the consoles in general. What the hell does it help Killzone that COD sold a shitton?
 

QaaQer

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Jun 13, 2012
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Lol at people in here thinking that Mario 3D World is just "another generic Mario game", when it is the best-rated next-gen game there is right now.
Nintendo isn't laughing if most people buying games see it that way.
 

Hindle

Banned
Apr 7, 2012
9,932
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Hey not bad. It's not the Halo 3 numbers that Hindle was prophesying but it isn't the dismal tank I expected
Come on Bruce, I never said Ryse would do Halo 3 numbers. I merely said it would sell well. I still think Ryse will be the best selling exclusive overall, as I expect Killzone sales to drop very quickly.
 

ab.aeterno

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Jun 1, 2013
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I disagree.

To be honest, I think the idea that Nintendo are the only ones working on innovative or diverse gaming experiences is an outdated and overly romantacised concept. Indie development is where the actual new experiences and innovation seems to be these days, and that's a market which is receiving an increasingly strong presence on other systems, particularly with Sony.
[...]
Nintendo is capable of making some excellent games, and has done this year, but I don't think they deserve an easy pass over words like "innovation" and "diversity" anymore just because their games look different to Killzone, Gears of War and Call of Duty. Frustratingly - and I'm sure Nintendo fans themselves will agree with this more than anyone - Nintendo isn't even innovative or diverse enough within it's own genre's and IP's. How many of us are crying out for them to delve a bit deeper into their years of history, or maybe just give Mario a break of a year or two?
Agreed. This idea that Nintendo is the last bastion of creativity is insultingly disingenuous. They make great, whimsical games that often are creative. But let's not pretend they're the only creative people in town.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Nov 7, 2011
2,399
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how about knack, i know it didn't get great scores but people seem to love it.
I tried it, agree with the scores. ;-)

  • Assassin's Creed 4 is my GOTY and I didn't care for AC1-3.
  • Knack is a fun platformer with a nice length and the gameplay stays interesting throughout as you get different "powers". Has replay value after you beat the game too.
  • NFS: Rivals has a great presentation and fun multiplayer, my favorite game for jumping into the action quickly and playing for short burts, then logging out.
  • Resogun.
  • Escape Plan, Doki Doki, Trine 2 are worth a purchase.
  • I've yet to try Contrast, saw that it was recently patched to fix some bugs though...
  • Have you played DCUO before? It looks and plays nice on PS4.
Thanks. I got Resogun and Contrast with PS+, Resogun is awesome, Contrast has a nice concept with the shadow mechanic but it's a very boring game. =/ Played Trine 2 on Wii U already last year. Looks gorgeous but lacking as a game. I might give AC IV a shot when it lands in the bomba bin, I stopped playing AC after Brotherhood, but IV seems to have gotten a better reception again.


You played much of the top 10?

I'll tell you what I have played this month: Tearaway. Far and away the most original game released this month. I can't say as I feel the industry is in dire peril since it didn't make the top 10.


All I'm saying is stop bitching about sequels if you're repping sequels.
I don't need to play the yearly edition of COD or Just Dance or Fifa to know what it is. Most reviews also tell of just how original they are. The opposite is true for the newest Mario and Zelda. ;-)

Tearaway was an über-bomba, usually if a game is an über-bomba, no more like it get made. It should be worrying if you want more games like it.

You're comparing sequels of franchises that have one to two games per system to sequels that come out every single year. Sequel =/= sequel. But yeah, a new Zelda every 4-5 years is clearly the same as COD and Madden every year.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Dec 8, 2008
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Lol at people in here thinking that Mario 3D World is just "another generic Mario game", when it is the best-rated next-gen game there is right now.
If you're going to quote people (and I'm assuming you are, given you've used quotation marks), you can click the little 'Quote' button to the left. Makes it easier to follow the conversation.
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
24,879
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If you're going to quote people (and I'm assuming you are, given you've used quotation marks), you can click the little 'Quote' button to the left. Makes it easier to follow the conversation.
Why bother doing that when you can tear down a fictional group of people that obviously can't respond?
 

QaaQer

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Jun 13, 2012
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I tried it, agree with the scores. ;-)



Thanks. I got Resogun and Contrast with PS+, Resogun is awesome, Contrast has a nice concept with the shadow mechanic but it's a very boring game. =/ Played Trine 2 on Wii U already last year. Looks gorgeous but lacking as a game. I might give AC IV a shot when it lands in the bomba bin, I stopped playing AC after Brotherhood, but IV seems to have gotten a better reception again.




I don't need to play the yearly edition of COD or Just Dance or Fifa to know what it is. Most reviews also tell of just how original they are. The opposite is true for the newest Mario and Zelda. ;-)

Tearaway was an über-bomba, usually if a game is an über-bomba, no more like it get made. It should be worrying if you want more games like it.

You're comparing sequels of franchises that have one to two games per system to sequels that come out every single year. Sequel =/= sequel. But yeah, a new Zelda every 4-5 years is clearly the same as COD and Madden every year.
Tearaway was an 8 person team, so people need to relax with the hyperbole. It'll probably do better than Etrian Odyssey IV, and that got a sequel.
 

ab.aeterno

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Jun 1, 2013
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I tried to like indies and mobile, but the quality and depth just isn't there for me.
This is the most vague and utterly useless generalization I've seen in a while. "Indie games" is a huge umbrella that encompasses games of every genre and style, from difficult Roguelikes (FTL) to first person exploration story-driven adventures (Gone Home) to twitchy, violent, stylized shooters (Hotline Miami). So I can't even take this notion that you "tried" indie games seriously, because that means fucking nothing. It'd be like saying "I tried movies."
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 11, 2010
42,663
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Is there a reason why Tearaway didn't get released on PSN, for the PS4?
Well it was made with Vita specific controls in mind and takes advantage of all the gimmicky features the Vita has to great effect.

I can see a sequel getting released on PSN as a Cross Buy game though.
 

GamerJM

Banned
May 19, 2013
11,842
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Is there a reason why Tearaway didn't get released on PSN, for the PS4?
The game's core design is centered around all of the Vita's features (like the touch pad etc.). A port wouldn't have done the game justice. I haven't even played it (yet, sorry Tearaway fans!), and I can tell that this is pretty obvious just from looking at footage of the game.
 

Bumhead

Banned
Nov 14, 2010
8,202
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Is there a reason why Tearaway didn't get released on PSN, for the PS4?
Tearaway is very much designed around the Vita. It's very specific to several of the Vita's features.

It's both the making of and death of it, in terms of quality and market success.
 

Hindle

Banned
Apr 7, 2012
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Well it was made with Vita specific controls in mind and takes advantage of all the gimmicky features the Vita has to great effect.

I can see a sequel getting released on PSN as a Cross Buy game though.
Surely they could have redesigned the game to suit a standard controller. I think sales would have been better if this was a key PSN game for the PS4.
 

Dragon

Banned
Jul 7, 2007
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Surely they could have redesigned the game to suit a standard controller. I think sales would have been better if this was a key PSN game for the PS4.
You obviously haven't played the game. Tearaway released at launch on PSN for the PS4 would be a small fish in an ocean compared to how important it is for Vita. Obviously this didn't translate into sales, but the solution isn't to offer it on another platform so people have even less incentive to get it on the Vita. The solution is to continue to sell Vitas so that more people have access to it.
 

SmokyDave

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Dec 8, 2008
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This is the most vague and utterly useless generalization I've seen in a while. "Indie games" is a huge umbrella that encompasses games of every genre and style, from difficult Roguelikes (FTL) to first person exploration story-driven adventures (Gone Home) to twitchy, violent, stylized shooters (Hotline Miami). So I can't even take this notion that you "tried" indie games seriously, because that means fucking nothing. It'd be like saying "I tried movies."
Same for mobile games. Angry Birds ain't DEVICE6 ain't XCom ain't The Room etc..

I'm starting to think that many people bemoaning the current state of the industry can't see past the end of their own nose. Or chosen console.

Surely they could have redesigned the game to suit a standard controller. I think sales would have been better if this was a key PSN game for the PS4.
The game relies heavily on features only found on the Vita.

Except they are fresh. Lot of great ideas. I wish you could see that if you played them.
I'll play Zelda before long.

Let's be honest though, they're not as fresh as something like Tearaway or DEVICE 6. Games where there is literally nothing you can point to and say 'well, it's like this prior iteration of the franchise, but with these new features!'.
 

Saty

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Sep 4, 2009
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Whether we do or don't count bundles, it doesn't change the overall point that your argument - KZ SF continuing the "trend" of decline in the franchise - is flawed. If we count bundles, it almost certainly sold more. If we don't count bundles, then SF's sales are still impressive because we know:

a) a rough estimate for PS4s sold, which is much less than PS3s sold by 2011
b) some of that number will have bought SF in a bundle which isn't reflected in the above number.
Same can be said about KZ3 numbers that don't include the bundles. SW numbers sans bundles may be impressive relatively but the absolute number is still down from KZ3 which was down from KZ2.
The player base in 2011 + lack of competitive titles only amounted to 10k more sales for KZ3 compared to SW, which was a flagship launch title. The closeness of the numbers seems to suggest KZ has a very modest sub 300k player-base who gets the game on launch.

If you were responsible for the KZ franchise in Sony what more can you do to try give the series a second wind? Seems like they tried everything.

Would be interesting to get splits for physical vs. digital. Wonder how will that go for all games. For example, for the Wii U, digital looks to be insignificant portion.
 

Cheech

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Aug 14, 2007
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Lol at people in here thinking that Mario 3D World is just "another generic Mario game", when it is the best-rated next-gen game there is right now.
Which obviously means nothing when it comes to sales or selling Wii Us to people.

Gaming tastes have changed, and not in Nintendo's favor. They are getting killed by Apple on one end and Sony on the other. I have no answers for them.
 

fuzzyreactor

Banned
Jan 21, 2009
7,290
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This is the most vague and utterly useless generalization I've seen in a while. "Indie games" is a huge umbrella that encompasses games of every genre and style, from difficult Roguelikes (FTL) to first person exploration story-driven adventures (Gone Home) to twitchy, violent, stylized shooters (Hotline Miami). So I can't even take this notion that you "tried" indie games seriously, because that means fucking nothing. It'd be like saying "I tried movies."
well to be fair, most indies are sidescrollers or 2D over the top which limits their scope. There are only so many of these games I can play before i just don't care about them anymore.
 

Quake1028

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Oct 17, 2005
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Same can be said about KZ3 numbers that don't include the bundles. SW numbers sans bundles may be impressive relatively but the absolute number is still down from KZ3 which was down from KZ2.
The player base in 2011 + lack of competitive titles only amounted to 10k more sales for KZ3 compared to SW, which was a flagship launch title. The closeness of the numbers seems to suggest KZ has a very modest sub 300k player-base who gets the game on launch.

If you were responsible for the KZ franchise in Sony what more can you do to try give the series a second wind? Seems like they tried everything.

Would be interesting to get splits for physical vs. digital. Wonder how will that go for all games. For example, for the Wii U, digital looks to be insignificant portion.

Do you keep saying SW just to be obtuse?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jul 31, 2007
39,660
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So 3D World, Knack and Tearaway bomb while the top 10 is littered with first-person shooters.

It appears me and this industry are going in opposite directions :/
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 11, 2010
42,663
37
740
Surely they could have redesigned the game to suit a standard controller. I think sales would have been better if this was a key PSN game for the PS4.
The charm would have been lost.

A lot of the games content involves interacting with the front and back touchscreen in interesting ways that make you feel really connected to the game.

Can't do that with the DS4.
 

hoos30

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Aug 17, 2007
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It really is. It's a game that reviewed well on a platform with fans starving for original content...and no one fucking bought it? What the hell went wrong there?

If I wasn't worried about Vita's future in terms of original software before, I am now.
100 people in the world own a Vita and 99 of those just dropped $600+ on a PS4 and games. Tearaway was probably at the very bottom of the priority list for this month.
 

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Oct 26, 2006
25,014
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Come on Bruce, I never said Ryse would do Halo 3 numbers. I merely said it would sell well. I still think Ryse will be the best selling exclusive overall, as I expect Killzone sales to drop very quickly.
You thought with MS marketing budget it was going to be a huge success and the best selling exclusive title. Which wasn't even close

I don't think it's going to overtake KZSF or be considered a successful selling game by any measure. This isn't the kind of game that has "legs"
 

Count of Monte Sawed-Off

un33dab@dpu$$y
Mar 18, 2008
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Thanks. I got Resogun and Contrast with PS+, Resogun is awesome, Contrast has a nice concept with the shadow mechanic but it's a very boring game. =/ Played Trine 2 on Wii U already last year. Looks gorgeous but lacking as a game. I might give AC IV a shot when it lands in the bomba bin, I stopped playing AC after Brotherhood, but IV seems to have gotten a better reception again.
I'm not really a fan of the AC games, but I picked up AC4 when Amazon had it on sale, and it really is pretty damn good. Not quite my game of the year, but it's up there.