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[schuelma]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers abandon the idea of making 'mature' games for the Wii?

I know they're cheap to make on the Wii, but have any really sold well enough to justify the time and effort also?
?

There is nothing on that list that was realistically going to sell all that well. The Conduit probably had the most potential and at least from reviews is nothing more than mediocre. As long as 3rd parties don't treat their mature projects on Wii like blockbusters they won't sell like blockbusters.

 

[lordoftherink]

Conduit - bombed

Not that it was exceptional quality wise or sales wise, but it sold around 200k iirc, and Sega considered it a success.

 

[Archie]

Evidence of Activision's outright lies:

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/699283/guitar-hero-5-outselling-the-beatles-rock-band.html

Despicable.

 

[happyfunball]

I think the people shitting on the revival of lightgun games are the same people shitting on the revival of 2D sidescrollers.

Hell no, my most anticipated game for Wii is Castlevania Rebirth and with how will Contra Rebirth is doing on WiiWare, I think 2D sidescrollers are doing very well on Wii.

Lightgun games, on the other hand, have always been more appropriate for fast-paced short bursts in arcades. Attempts to turn them into story-driven plodding experiences doesn't appeal to me or pretty much anybody else obviously (crazed-RE fans aside).

 

[Tobor]

Not when 'Anything' hardly changes the field.

So you're saying they should fold the platform then?

 

[Opiate]

God of War sold really well on the PSP, as did Final Fantasy. It's a hit and miss most of the time.

It didn't sell terribly, but it's worth noting that the last time we saw sales figures from the game from Sony, it was still <1M. Now, again, < 1M is hardly a failure by absolute standards, but let's examine GoW series sales as a whole since the franchise's initial outing:

GoW 1: 2-3 Million (from Sony FR. Could theoretically be > 3M by now, but they haven't mentioned it and it wasn't a game with strong legs, so doubtful).

GoW 2: 1-2 Million (Same source and logic).

GoW CoO: < 1 Million.

So either this is a franchise in rapid decline, or the series did notably worse on the PSP, or both.

 

[Kusagari]

Really? It reached 1 million really really fast too http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/motorstorm-2-sales-hit-1-million-mark

Obvious shipped number. It never made the top 20 in America nor a best selling list in any part of the world.

 

[Busaiku]

Wow, that really is a lot of games doing pretty badly across numerous systems.
The Kingdom Hearts numbers are actually very good in comparison. Of course they're good no matter how you slice them.

 

[jeremy1456]

So you're saying they should fold the platform then?

At this point? Maybe. At least in the US.

 

[Htown]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers abandon the idea of making 'mature' games for the Wii?

I know they're cheap to make on the Wii, but have any really sold well enough to justify the time and effort also?

And even IF you coudl come up with a small handful of titles that have done 'ok', it surely still wouldn't justify devs takign the time out to bother.

That doesn't mean we can't get good games on the Wii, just not 'mature' ones, however you want to intepret it.

It must be frustrating for Wii only owners to only be given a very select few titles in this bracket.

MadWorld (which I own) - bombed
Conduit - bombed
Dead Space - bombed
RE4 - kicked ass
Metroid - kicked ass but is 1st party established franchise

I can't even think of any others, but outside of RE4 which was a port, do these types of games have much of a future on Wii?

Keep in mind that your definition of "bombed" is not necessarily the same as the publisher's definition. Different games have different budgets and different sales expectations. Dead Space? Bomb. Conduit... not sure how Sega sees it really. And don't forget No More Heroes, which is getting a sequel and the Wii Call of Duty games, which have sold well too. Red Steel is also getting a sequel.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Evidence of Activision's outright lies:

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/699283/guitar-hero-5-outselling-the-beatles-rock-band.html

He's talking about the franchise history. Obviously. He didn't say "Guitar Hero 5 has outsold Rock Band:Beatles 4-1 in the US", did he?

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

It didn't sell terribly, but it's worth noting that the last time we saw sales figures from the game from Sony, it was still <1M. Now, again, < 1M is hardly a failure by absolute standards, but let's examine GoW series sales as a whole since the franchise's initial outing:

GoW 1: 2-3 Million (from Sony FR. Could theoretically be > 3M by now, but they haven't mentioned it and it wasn't a game with strong legs, so doubtful).

GoW 2: 1-2 Million (Same source and logic).

GoW CoO: < 1 Million.

So either this is a franchise in rapid decline, or the series did notably worse on the PSP, or both.

I'm a God of Warbot but I'm glad the numbers went that way, because that's the EXACT same direction the quality went.

GoW > GoW2 > GoW oO

All three games are magic. But the original is the best.

Hopefully 3 kicks all their asses.

 

[lordoftherink]

Obvious shipped number. It never made the top 20 in America nor a best selling list in any part of the world.

Yeah, it can be found for dirt cheap now and was given away free with the PS3 at numerous retailers.

 

[Byakuya769]

Because while I can't comment on Soul Calibur or Gran Turismo, Motorstorm is done extremely well and isn't attempting to be a carbon copy of the PS3 versions. It offers something new to the Motorstorm series in a full featured package. What's not to love? As for my other PSP 2009 release purchases, would you say Dissidia, Prinny, Half Minute Hero or Resistance (not even the close to the same as the console entries) are me-too games?

I didn't mean that I couldn't understand your (and others) excitement for good games, but what I did not understand was the sentiment that psp was turning a corner. As for your list... yea Dissidia and Resistance were both "me too" games in that they both could have been done much more effectively on a console, and offered nothing in creating value in a portable experience.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I have a theory. It takes us to a strange place, so bear with me.

Typically, even in the darkest times for the PSP, huge franchises do good business. Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, God of War, and so on. Yet here we have two very big franchises crashing and burning during a time when PSP is enjoying a certain new shine.

What else do these games have in common, along with Motorstorm? I'll tell you. They all locked out CFW owners. The solution wasn't found until after September's NPD, which means for that month, anyone with a CFW PSP had to choose between CFW and these games. I reckon quite a few PSP owners are running CFW, particularly Dark Alex's. I think the results speak for themselves.

So my theory is this: in an effort to lock out pirates, Sony actually caused considerable harm to legitimate software sales.

 

[MidnightScott]

Whoa look at the PS3! Normally I would be bashing it but I'm not surprised. The Wii only has Wii Fit Plus & New Super Mario Bros. Wii going for it. All of the games are getting delayed to next year

I know Sin & Punishment 2 probably won't be a big hit but they should've just released it this Christmas...

 

[CadetMahoney]

how was that a bomba when this npd only takes in 3 days of sale for that game?

IIRC, Killzone 2 sold more copies in its first 2 days than in its second month and GTPSP was also tied to a console launch so don't expect anything big next month.

Sounds about right. That is still a crazy frontload though.

Is it too "tinfoil-hat-time" to suggest the release date for games/systems is tailored to npd tracking dates to maximise results? When was Uncharted 2 release date?

I dont understand the comments about ODST and its relation to a 360 hardware jump.

It wasnt meant to sell 360s; it was meant to make some serious money.

That it did. Forza still on the cards for a potential top 5 oct npd, then theres l4d2 in nov, but I don't think that will be top5 as many ppl prefer the pc version.

 

[jvm]

Well as mentioned: credit cards. We don't have numbers, but if they were significant, we'd have heard what a success they were.

Maaaaaybe. To my knowledge Sony has never directly mentioned any unit sales data for any game outside of FF7 and (obliquely) GT5P. Requests get a pretty strong "no" response, and I bet I'm not the only person who's tried.

Tretton did mention that they had the biggest download volume week during September and his wording suggests that he meant the PSPgo launch week (i.e. GT launch week).

Look, we have no hard data and are basically trying to argue based on circumstantial evidence. I'm trying my best not to act like you're wrong -- because I have no idea. But I will try to say that no one, outside of Sony and its partners, has any idea how well things sold on PSN.

 

[Linkup]

I won't pay $50 for something I feel I won't get much play time from. To be honest I wouldn't have paid $40 for DSE even if it was a third person shooter with great reviews, just not interested in the world/design etc. I can already see I don't like Scribblenauts(GAF got me on that one) and so playing $27 wasn't even worth it.

 

[okenny]

But but there are only sony fanboys on GAF

Great sales all around hopefully this continues into the holiday season for all parties. Games for the win

...his analysis isn't incorrect; it just seems heavy-handed. It's like he thought it out well before hand as a reaction to the "AnIco"-style messages but in a thread where the "AnIco"-style messages are from AnIco alone, the analysis sounds more like A seasoned Navy Seal's Sniper beating a blind 5-year old paraplegic archer to death with the butt o his riffle for getting closer to a bull's-eye than he did. Its not wrong but just a tad much

 

[toxk_02]

Why does IGN list RB 360 at 198 when it's IN the freaking top ten(so obviously the number is nonsense) - and how do people extrapolate PS3 RB from that number?

Guess: the IGN numbers do not include instrument bundles like the one in the OP (notice all the games that have an * in the OP, indicating LEs/bundles, have smaller totals in the IGN list). The PS3 RB number is being extrapolated from a Wired article saying total BRB sales are 595k.

 

[Busaiku]

I do actually wonder if Birth By Sleep can pull in similar numbers to 358/2 Days.
I expect it to do better in Japan, but I'm not so sure about its status outside of there. I imagine it could pull something between Dissidia and Crisis Core in the US. Though with the recent trend of PSP software sales, it may end up closer to Dissidia than Crisis Core.

 

[Opiate]

We don't have 99% of the data. Post Go launch, we'll never have accurate software sales for PSP games again.

We have the following information:

1) Retail Sales. These were poor.

2) Voucher sales. These were extremely poor.

3) w\We have the fact that the PSP Go has only been out for a few days. DD should be an even smaller portion than it could be at some point when the PSP Go has had more time on the market.

4) We have the sound logic that if sales were strong, Sony would be trumpeting it on the rooftops

5) And of course we have common sense which dictates sales of direct, digitally distributed games are still going to be a small minority of total sales.

Is there any evidence -- of any kind -- to support the opposite conclusion? As far as I can tell, the argument is simply: "Because we don't have all data, it's technically possible it did well." That's classic contrarian argumentation.

 

[donny2112]

Can we get a clarification of how NPD tracks online sales? I know someone who wants to order a slim and I want to make sure it gets counted.

I know Amazon is tracked so just get it there. There are other online stores that are tracked, but I think most of them are retail stores with an online presence.

 

[Somnid]

You can do well with Mature games on Wii so long as you have a product to get behind. Umbrella Chronicals is getting a sequel and Red Steel is a million seller with an upcoming sequel. Wii owners are picky, so it can't sell on just the fact that it is a mature title. It needs something more.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Keep in mind that your definition of "bombed" is not necessarily the same as the publisher's definition. Different games have different budgets and different sales expectations. Dead Space? Bomb. Conduit... not sure how Sega sees it really. And don't forget No More Heroes, which is getting a sequel and the Wii Call of Duty games, which have sold well too. Red Steel is also getting a sequel.

I know, but read my post again.

I said even if you can find a SMALL HANDFUL of titles that fall under success, is that worth it for the majority?

Doesn't seem like it.

Now for multi-console owners, that's fine. Like the Cube before it, my Wii is my Nintendo first party machine, but if I was a Wii only owner, I'd be fucking PISSED this generation.

Because every good/decent/great mature title that bombs sends a message out to other devs that they shouldn't even bother. At least in my eyes anyway.

 

[Kasumi1970]

Motorstorm Arctic Edge <3k

I think if Sony had released this on the PS3 instead of the PS2 then this would have done a lot better. These are the PS2 numbers or are they the PSP numbers for this game?

 

[Alcibiades]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers entertain the idea of making AAA, big-budget (read: equal to 360/PS3 costs), ace development team, mainline 'mature' games for the Wii?

Or will it be another year of bizarre, artsy, C-team, and spinoffs?

 

[Curufinwe]

He's talking about the franchise history. Obviously. He didn't say "Guitar Hero 5 has outsold Rock Band:Beatles 4-1 in the US", did he?

No he isn't. Read the article.

 

[okenny]

HALO 3: ODST (360; Sep-09) 1.52M
WII SPORTS RESORT W/ WII MOTION PLUS (WII; Jul-09) 442.9K
MADDEN NFL 10 (360; Aug-09) 289.6K
MARIO & LUIGI:BOWSER'S INSIDE STORY (NDS; Sep-09) 258.1K
THE BEATLES:ROCK BAND* (360; Sep-09) 254.0K
MADDEN NFL 10 (PS3; Aug-09) 246.5K
MARVEL:ULTIMATE ALLIANCE 2 (360; Sep-09) 236.0K
BATMAN:ARKHAM ASYLUM* (PS3; Aug-09) 212.5K
GUITAR HERO 5* (360; Sep-09) 210.8K
THE BEATLES:ROCK BAND* (WII; Sep-09) 208.6K

My guesses on some of the rest of the top ten:

beatles rock band PS3
Arkham Asylum 360
GH5 PS3
Scribblenauts maybe?
GH5 Wii

...not to sound like a dick (because I totally understand what you are saying) but I have a bone to pick with your phrase "...some of the rest of the top ten".

???It?s bugging the shit out of me?

 

[schuelma]

I know, but read my post again.

I said even if you can find a SMALL HANDFUL of titles that fall under success, is that worth it for the majority?

Doesn't seem like it.
.

The thing is, 3rd parties have yet to develop and market a high budget AAA title for the platform, so even if these quite frankly half assed (either development wise or marketing wise) sell well, that's all the Wii is ever going to get!

 

[Opiate]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers entertain the idea of making AAA, big-budget (read: equal to 360/PS3 costs), ace development team 'mature' games for the Wii?

Or will it be another year of bizarre, artsy, C-team, and spinoffs?

You want a prediction? It will never happen. The end.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I think if Sony had released this on the PS3 instead of the PS2 then this would have done a lot better. These are the PS2 numbers or are they the PSP numbers for this game?

PSP, me bucko.

 

[happyfunball]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers entertain the idea of making AAA, big-budget (read: equal to 360/PS3 costs), ace development team, mainline 'mature' games for the Wii?

Or will it be another year of bizarre, artsy, C-team, and spinoffs?

Monster Hunter Tri.......and that's about it.

 

[Fredescu]

As far as I can tell, the argument is simply: "Because we don't have all data, it's technically possible it did well." That's classic contrarian argumentation.

No gnus is good gnus.

 

[schuelma]

But how long before developers entertain the idea of making AAA, big-budget (read: equal to 360/PS3 costs), ace development team, mainline 'mature' games for the Wii?

Or will it be another year of bizarre, artsy, C-team, and spinoffs?

In the West? Clearly never. The closest one is probably RS 2.

Things are a bit better in Japan, but not much.

 

[WretchedTruman]

I think if Sony had released this on the PS3 instead of the PS2 then this would have done a lot better. These are the PS2 numbers or are they the PSP numbers for this game?

I wasn't even aware it was ported to the Ps2.

 

[Man God]

I have a theory. It takes us to a strange place, so bear with me.

Typically, even in the darkest times for the PSP, huge franchises do good business. Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, God of War, and so on. Yet here we have two very big franchises crashing and burning during a time when PSP is enjoying a certain new shine.

What else do these games have in common, along with Motorstorm? I'll tell you. They all locked out CFW owners. The solution wasn't found until after September's NPD, which means for that month, anyone with a CFW PSP had to choose between CFW and these games. I reckon quite a few PSP owners are running CFW, particularly Dark Alex's. I think the results speak for themselves.

So my theory is this: in an effort to lock out pirates, Sony actually caused considerable harm to legitimate software sales.

I know we have some honest people here in these forums using CFW for the greater good and all but you have to believe that most people who do use it are probably dirty pirate scum.

I think motorstorm suffers from being a mediocre arcade racing game on a platform with notoriously bad sales.

GT Portable for a counterpoint came out of nowhere, had little US advertising, and has some reviews that really slam it. It might get some decent sales during the course of the holidays but I think Sony knew that they had something substandard and decided to put it out early instead of sending it to die in another month or two.

 

[AniHawk]

I keep forgetting Rabbids Go Home is this month.

I was thinking about all the big name games coming out for the rest of the year on the system and it wasn't until someone mentioned Red Steel 2 that I remembered RGH.

 

[Nirolak]

Evidence of Activision's outright lies:

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/699283/guitar-hero-5-outselling-the-beatles-rock-band.html

Isn't this illegal?

I thought public companies couldn't defraud investors.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Motorstorm Arctic Edge <3k

goddamn.


The gap between the handful of top AAA franchises and everyone else is just maaaaasssive. This business is ruthless.

 

[Fafalada]

Well as mentioned: credit cards. We don't have numbers, but if they were significant, we'd have heard what a success they were.

I know that during PS3s worst time (mid-2007) there were DD titles selling better then the combined total of UMD+Voucher for all PSP titles you mentioned from this NPD.
So people were using CCs more back then, on a universally hated(online anyway) system with a much crappier PSN.

If PSP on PSN is as dead as NPD numbers, I'm guessing that PSP platform is even more universally hated then PS3 was, PSP consumer base has no CCs, or they just don't see the need to pay for software because they can get it for free anyway.
Or maybe all of the above.

 

[TheGreatDave]

No he isn't. Read the article.

I read the quote. Sounds like more than you did.

That "4-1 in the US, 9-1 in Europe" figure is something they've been throwing around for ages, before Beatles and GH5 even came out. G4's shitty headline doesn't make them right.

 

[BattleMonkey]

So out of curiosity, and this is a serious question.

But how long before developers entertain the idea of making AAA, big-budget (read: equal to 360/PS3 costs), ace development team, mainline 'mature' games for the Wii?

Or will it be another year of bizarre, artsy, C-team, and spinoffs?

Seeing how these big budget AAA games take 2-3 years of development time, and with people not jumping on the Wii bandwagon till late in the game... and with the failure of various "test games", I doubt you will see much of what your looking for.

 

[Somnid]

I have a theory. It takes us to a strange place, so bear with me.

Typically, even in the darkest times for the PSP, huge franchises do good business. Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, God of War, and so on. Yet here we have two very big franchises crashing and burning during a time when PSP is enjoying a certain new shine.

What else do these games have in common, along with Motorstorm? I'll tell you. They all locked out CFW owners. The solution wasn't found until after September's NPD, which means for that month, anyone with a CFW PSP had to choose between CFW and these games. I reckon quite a few PSP owners are running CFW, particularly Dark Alex's. I think the results speak for themselves.

So my theory is this: in an effort to lock out pirates, Sony actually caused considerable harm to legitimate software sales.

Unless tons of people bought it, realized it wouldn't play and did mass returns I don't see this being much of a factor. More likely DSi holds all the buzz and people forgot about PSP.

 

[schuelma]

As far as big budget 3rd party games period, without the mature qualifier, Epic Mickey looks like its going to count.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

I keep forgetting Rabbids Go Home is this month.

I was thinking about all the big name games coming out for the rest of the year on the system and it wasn't until someone mentioned Red Steel 2 that I remembered RGH.

11/03?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I know we have some honest people here in these forums using CFW for the greater good and all but you have to believe that most people who do use it are probably dirty pirate scum.

I think motorstorm suffers from being a mediocre arcade racing game on a platform with notoriously bad sales.

GT Portable for a counterpoint came out of nowhere, had little US advertising, and has some reviews that really slam it. It might get some decent sales during the course of the holidays but I think Sony knew that they had something substandard and decided to put it out early instead of sending it to die in another month or two.

A DS is far easier to hack and run pirated games on than a PSP.

 

[Nirolak]

As far as big budget 3rd party games period, without the mature qualifier, Epic Mickey looks like its going to count.

I wouldn't discount Dragon Quest X as being a big budget AAA project as well.

 

[elrechazado]

...not to sound like a dick (because I totally understand what you are saying) but I have a bone to pick with your phrase "...some of the rest of the top ten".

???It?s bugging the shit out of me?

uhh, ok, sorry for that egregious error. top 20. Are you ok now?