Support NeoGAF

[Lethal01]

Who is right!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?1111

Truly Hilarious seeing gamurz trying to argue about raytracing when they only learned the word a year or two ago.
Saying "Caustics can't be raytraced" disqualifies you from discussing raytracing for the next decade.

 

[docbot]

Somehow I don't really care about raytracing all that much

 

[llien]

why don't you want RT to be a thing ?

So if I don't believe my neighbor has just invented cancer busting drug, I must be against curing cancer.
Logical.

You were faced with the following facts:
1) How path traced picture actually looks like
2) Video footage to appreciate just how slow even that noise looks like
3) Opinion of a game engine developer, who was presenting an engine that SUPPORTS 100% PATH TRACING MODE that perf isn't there and won't be there for years to come
4) The developer of the demo in OP ringing the "denoised" and that fancy upscaling thing in his message

Your only "defense" was a conspiracy theory of evil engine developers downplaying the unseen greatness.
Well, ok, an interesting opinion.

pawel86ck
I'm not going to argue about what word to use for the "select effects" that are occasionally applied in rare games, as entertaining as that is.

As for fancy upscaling technologies that look "better than native", yeah, they are absolutely crucial, obviously:

 

[Lethal01]

So if I don't believe my neighbor has just invented cancer busting drug, I must be against curing cancer.
Logical.

You were faced with the following facts:
1) How path traced picture actually looks like
2) Video footage to appreciate just how slow even that noise looks like
3) Opinion of a game engine developer, who was presenting an engine that SUPPORTS 100% PATH TRACING MODE that perf isn't there and won't be there for years to come
4) The developer of the demo in OP ringing the "denoised" and that fancy upscaling thing in his message

Your only "defense" was a conspiracy theory of evil engine developers downplaying the unseen greatness.
Well, ok, an interesting opinion.

pawel86ck
I'm not going to argue about what word to use for the "select effects" that are occasionally applied in rare games, as entertaining as that is.

As for fancy upscaling technologies that look "better than native", yeah, they are absolutely crucial, obviously:

This demo was fairly impressive but nothing surprising at the rate we are going. it's a static scene with slow camera movement.
I'm all for listening to people using the tech daily but a single dev that's making guesses off the top of his head really shouldn't be given that much weight.

Especially when they clearly state "I am not an engineer, I'm an artist, I'm a designer," "To be honest I don't understand it myself"

 

[Lethal01]

Bad Post

 

[-Arcadia-]

I saw 104 replies, asked myself how the subject matter could get that much interest, joked that Gaf probably argued about a marble game for three pages, and facepalmed once I saw I was right.

 

[martino]

So if I don't believe my neighbor has just invented cancer busting drug, I must be against curing cancer.
Logical.

You were faced with the following facts:
1) How path traced picture actually looks like
2) Video footage to appreciate just how slow even that noise looks like
3) Opinion of a game engine developer, who was presenting an engine that SUPPORTS 100% PATH TRACING MODE that perf isn't there and won't be there for years to come
4) The developer of the demo in OP ringing the "denoised" and that fancy upscaling thing in his message

Your only "defense" was a conspiracy theory of evil engine developers downplaying the unseen greatness.
Well, ok, an interesting opinion.

pawel86ck
I'm not going to argue about what word to use for the "select effects" that are occasionally applied in rare games, as entertaining as that is.

As for fancy upscaling technologies that look "better than native", yeah, they are absolutely crucial, obviously:

thanks for the arbitrary binary starting point....but it's where your logic fails.
RT don't need to be FULL PATH 100% to exist and be a thing.
If my neighbor have a RTX2XX card i can see today benefit of RT even if your appreciation of it is : it's not enough (judging from your post history for bad reasons)

Now let's imagine your logic applied to all effects when they are approximations or done partially...the history of graphic computation would be sad with only guy like you.

 

[llien]

RT don't need to FULL PATH 100% to exist and be a thing.

Yes, indeed.

This demo was fairly impressive but...

Even Unreal 4 allows to switch on "100% path tracing" mode.
This is how it looks (at 1-3 fps):

Are you seriously implying they have slowed it down, to make it look bad?

Now, the card in OP has maybe 2 times higher "gigareys' figure, if I read it right.

Tell me, what is going on here.


And for more perspective here: it's NOT just about computing power. GPUs need to get 50+ times faster along with memory bandwidth. While the former is somewhat imaginable, there are no sign of the latter happening within this decade.


And that is why Nvidia is so heavily investing into denoising and upscaling. At the end of the day, the only conceivable way to get to 100% path tracing is by significantly dropping resolution and denoising, denoising, denoising.


That beside the problem of the market penetration of the RT enabled cards.

If my neighbor have a RTX2XXX card i can see today benefit of RT...

With :
1) barely any game on the market supporting it
2) Even those few, supporting it, clearly getting money from NV (I wouldn't call it bribing, though, development costs money)
3) and the hilarious part: even 2080Ti owners disabling it, due to performance hit

There is "some" benefit, I guess.

Can people just get over the "RT in Turing is a gimmick" instead of twisting reality, please? It's also offtopic here, the graphics in OP is said to be 100% path traced.

I saw 104 replies, asked myself how the subject matter could get that much interest, joked that Gaf probably argued about a marble game for three pages, and facepalmed once I saw I was right.

God forbid we discuss marble demo in a thread about marble demo.

 

[ZywyPL]

llien
Don't like it don't buy it, simple as it is. Both NV and AMD have non-RT capable cards in their offer for people like you.

 

[llien]

ZywyPL

 

[Lethal01]

Yes, indeed.



Even Unreal 4 allows to switch on "100% path tracing" mode.
This is how it looks (at 1-3 fps):

Are you seriously implying they have slowed it down, to make it look bad?

Now, the card in OP has maybe 2 times higher "gigareys' figure, if I read it right.

Tell me, what is going on here.
God forbid we discuss marble demo in a thread about marble demo.

The pathtracer in that UE video isn't made to take advantage of the recent advancements in the cards, did you totally ignore the videos I posted of what a modern renderer optimized for RTX cards and realtime rendering was achieving since last year? Because it looks a lot like the quality the marble demo achieved and it does it in real time.

You can do a lot more with AI than just upscaling, that renderer uses to predict the best places to send the rays boosting the quality with the same amount of samples.

The unreal engine path tracer also just isn't at the level of other modern renderers, it's not built to be used in realtime or made to be used in production, it's there for you to have something to compare the rasterized scene to, it doesn't need to be fast..

Once again, I literally just sent you a video of an existing product the comes close to the quality of that demo on far less powerful cards.

Do you honestly have such a hard time wrapping your head around them being able to set up and easy to render scene that doesn't have 20 different lights? That they could take advantage of the fact that the camera moves relatively slowly in this demo to make it render more easily?

Or also, That it's possible that technology has unexpected breakthroughs and advanced a couple of times faster than a random dude predicted? That "relatively" young technology has a tendency to be used in ways people don't expect and is even more likely to have those unexpected breathroughs?

 

[llien]

...recent advancements in the cards...

Or also, That it's possible that technology has unexpected breakthroughs and advanced a couple of times faster than a random dude predicted?

What "recent advancement", we only have Turing. Quadro 8000 is also Turing, workstation oriented card.

Lavina project, besides being "who knows, what is really going on" is using the same card as in OP, and barely shows 5fps in the (very far from impressive) second demo.

 

[Lethal01]

What "recent advancement", we only have Turing. Quadro 8000 is also Turing, workstation oriented card.

Lavina project, besides being "who knows, what is really going on" is using the same card as in OP, and barely shows 5fps in the (very far from impressive) second demo.

I consider the last 3 years to be extremely recent.

barely shows 5fps in the (very far from impressive) second demo.

.. what? it's clearly 30, you can literally go frame by frame to check.
If you're just going to straight-up lie then forget it.

 

[Neo_game]

Who said anything about 4k? it's all about that DLSS 3.0.
I'm more curious how good game an optimized that only hit 1080p 30 with max setting will look.
I always want games to give me graphical setting that are far beyond what anything could actually run

Really ? that would be disappointing for a 1000$ + GPU.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Caustics cannot be raytraced.
That's why in the real world RT is just another graphics technique and not "the holy graal, second coming of Christ" that some idiots think.

Accurate caustics has to be path traced (which is a form of ray-tracing).

 

[MetalAlien]

And? Is there any indication that everything in this demo is RT and realtime? And the scene is completely static just because it's a game design decision?

The reason the table is moving... which is different than marble madness is so you can see all the shadows and reflections updating in real time. The marbel was clear so you could see the scene behind it bend and cast light as it rolled over stuff. This was not a gameplay demo it was a lighting demo.

 

[Lethal01]

Really ? that would be disappointing for a 1000$ + GPU.

What would be disappointing? having access to settings it can't run?
That's like saying it's disappointing that my GPU can't run games at 16k. There's no reason to be disappointed in a GPU because it can't run literally anything you throw at it so I'd be dissapointed in companies that don't let me crank the settings as high as I want.

As for 4k, Native 4k is just not a big upgrade from DLSS 2.0 or even Unreals built in upscaling. It's not worth it. Once again, I'm more interested in seeing what games can do when they aren't wasting half their power on the graphical settings that make the smallest difference to me. Why care how it runs at 4k when I'd be dumb to waste power on 4k?

 

[Neo_game]

What would be disappointing? having access to settings it can't run?
That's like saying it's disappointing that my GPU can't run games at 16k. There's no reason to be disappointed in a GPU because it can't run literally anything you throw at it so I'd be dissapointed in companies that don't let me crank the settings as high as I want.

As for 4k, Native 4k is just not a big upgrade from DLSS 2.0 or even Unreals built in upscaling. It's not worth it. Once again, I'm more interested in seeing what games can do when they aren't wasting half their power on the graphical settings that make the smallest difference to me. Why care how it runs at 4k when I'd be dumb to waste power on 4k?

I do not think devs care about higher settings. There is barely any difference between max and high anyways. Even RTX 2060S can run max settings if resolution is not too important.

 

[Lethal01]

I do not think devs care about higher settings. There is barely any difference between max and high anyways. Even RTX 2060S can run max settings if resolution is not too important.

That's exactly my problem. I want ways to use my gpu power aside from just bumping up the resolution or framerate. I hoping that with raytracing becoming more widespread I have more oppurtunities to use my cards to really increase the visual quality.

 

[BackBackPunch]

Im surprised no one here noticed the image quality issues on the transparent objects. As the marble rolls over different surfaces, you can the see denoiser failing pretty hard. The big roadblock with this approach is that the denoiser is still a bandaid to get past the fact that it's still impossible to ray trace with enough samples to look good real-time, and even as good as this denoiser is, it still can't figure out what to do with complicated lighting scenarios (like a transparent marble rolling over objects). It looks good overall, except it is still nowhere close to being good enough for the pixel-peeping PC MasterRace who can't even handle 30FPS, or a little aliasing, or basically any hint of poor image quality.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Caustics of water on a bridge would be the first thing I don't want to waste ressources on. Just put on a premade effect and we're fine. Nobody will notice "hey that's not how that rippled!"

 

[Lethal01]

Caustics of water on a bridge would be the first thing I don't want to waste ressources on. Just put on a premade effect and we're fine. Nobody will notice "hey that's not how that rippled!"

A fine solution when it's only happening in some specific areas, but what about when you want a realistic level made out of glass,ice or water, how much time do you want to make manually setting up ways to fake it instead of adding more stuff to the game?

just in that demo, the lack of caustic on the marble made it look very noticeably wrong.

 

[BGs]

Single Quadro Rtx 8000.

~ 6.000 £

 

[Lethal01]

Single Quadro Rtx 8000.

~ 6.000 £

I too have read the OP

 

[BGs]

I too have read the OP

¿¿¿???

I have not read any of this thread. I have directly posted the price after watching the video intro.

I don't know what you're talking about on these three pages. And I don't know what you wrote either.

And what is OP?

Good night

 

[Lethal01]

¿¿¿???

I have not read any of this thread. I have directly posted the price after watching the video intro.

I don't know what you're talking about on these three pages. And I don't know what you wrote either.

And what is OP?

Good night

OP, opening post.
The very first post points out that this is running on a $5500 card.

 

[BGs]

OP, opening post.
The very first post points out that this is running on a $5500 card.

Did you think I was saying the price to you? The comment was not for anyone, I just found it funny that the video put "SINGLE quadro rtx 8000" as if putting "single" was more affordable.

 

[Knightime_X]

I think having the video be only 30fps makes it look less realistic.

 

[jackets with pockets]

I think having the video be only 30fps makes it look less realistic.

Most probably a case of "not enough computing power". In other words, they couldn't get the game run past 30fps.

 

[Knightime_X]

Most probably a case of "not enough computing power". In other words, they couldn't get the game run past 30fps.

They will in due time.
I remember back then there was an unreal engine 3 demo and they needed like 3 gpus to pull it off.
Now a single gpu can smoke that demo AND with better graphics.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

That does look amazing. Nice thread. We will see how the 3000 series advances in RT performance. Maybe this is something we can look forward to in next-next-gen?

But..... Will you be prepared to pay $5.500 for this? Thats the question.....I know that Hell no, i would not pay that...no way
And besides that...i want to look a game that looks like a game. When a game looks realy lifelike, it kills it for me.