Jonneh3003
Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think ShockingAlberto and NWReport heard from the same source.
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NWReport rumor: Nintendo "doubled down" on motion controls for Star Fox Zero
- Thread starter Oddduck
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think ShockingAlberto and NWReport heard from the same source.
I was suddenly reminded of this tidbit from the starfox wiki page:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-connecting-star-fox-on-wii-u-with-project-guard-and-project-giant-robot/1100-6420390/
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-connecting-star-fox-on-wii-u-with-project-guard-and-project-giant-robot/1100-6420390/
If you want more Metroid go bother Sakamoto or Tanabe they're the guy in charge of that now, Miyamoto was only doing supervision because it was an outsourced project for the Prime games.
Pikmin fans get another game and you get to complain because you like complaining.
Paper Mario not following SPM's template is ultimately better than the alternative, if you played some Paper Mario after the GC installment you'd know about that too.
For having played the demo of the latest Starfox, it's nothing special.
It's not overly boring or anything but nothing spectacular, it doesn't control as well as splatoon that's for sure.
The major problem I have with it is that it's doing nothing interesting with Star Fox, it's another retelling of Starfox because reasons and it still follows the SF64 template over the superior SNES original or something closer to Tie Fighter or something.
Doubling down on motion control isn't going to doom the game anymore than the demo was point it to.
So meh it changes nothing.
Coffee Dog
Banned
so rail shooters won't fly in this day and age? because that's all people want. A sequel that's in the same genre.
Chezzymann
Member
Now I'm worried project giant robot will be a boss fight in the game
Already Torn
Banned
Despite the fact that it gets a new game in two months, it kind of already is. It's like a zombie.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
"This isn't thread worthy" is what he said when I asked him if he should make a thread about that quote.
I have no clue what people are actually, concretely reacting to in this thread, and it has turned into a mess.
TDLink
Member
I mean even though Miyamoto isn't the Metroid guy, as head of software he still influences the entire company. His policy of a new game has to be different is part of why Other M is the way it is. Instead of a new 2D game or a new Prime game we got something in between that didn't really work.
Already Torn
Banned
The worst aspects of Other M are there because Sakamoto is a lunatic control freak.
Boy Wander
Member
Surely the problem is that people are complaining about something without having played the game. It's like saying a new film sounds crap without ever having seen it. For all I know, this Alberto guy could be pulling the comment out of his ass or it could be 6 months out of date.
People were bitching about Splatoons controls on principal and then lo and behold when the game came out, there were a ton of posts saying "Wow, these controls really work".
F-Zero is a non-point. You're confusing PR with no application for reality because it suits the construct you wish to support. That franchise has been dead for years for a reason other than needing a fancy new controller.
Command and Zero are indicative of games being bent to the platform, and, yes, this is where Miyamoto falls onto using old IP over new IP to attempt to use the familiar to introduce the new. But the point to which I was responding was that the way many of you word you statements, one would think Miyamoto demands new of every project (new or old) and the fact of the matter is that he doesn't. He's hardly even involved with most.
This has literally nothing to do with Miyamoto but Sakamoto. You're now blaming Miyamoto for things that he had next to no involvement in.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Other M being something different isn't why Other M sucks.
TDLink
Member
I don't like when Nintendo makes certain changes in a franchise and then fails to see which people liked and which people didn't. Assuming people didn't like things they did. Like having a bigger focus on story in Other M is okay, the problem is it was bad. But that wasn't Other M's glaring problem. Similarly, Super Paper Mario having a story focus was fine...that wasn't its problem. Its problem was people want the Paper Mario games to be RPGs...because that is what the first two were. And those first two were great. But IntSys interpreted that dislike of SPM due to its story and not its game design. And sometimes Nintendo interprets people not liking their newest experiment as people not liking the franchise at all. This is especially dangerous with something like SF0 when it's the first game in a decade and if it has a poor reception it may be another decade until we see a new entry.
Shit dude if anything I felt that all the needless reliance on nostalgic elements and recycled enemies and stuff was just poison alongside the obvious reasons. Say what you want about Prime but even the first game in that had a lot of brand new stuff to it before the second/third games kicked it into overdrive with completely brand new twists and elements. With Other M it's just mediocrity in game play holding together a terrible story and poor nostalgia pandering.
TDLink
Member
That's not what I'm saying, but you're foolish if you don't believe Miyamoto's influence doesn't affect every piece of software they put out. He's literally in charge of software. Everything goes through him. Sometimes that's good (more than not, let's be honest). Sometimes it's not so good. In this particular case of Star Fox Zero it looks to be detrimental.
Sapiens
Member
Wait and see people. Don't do that thing were we overpraise or overshit before we even see it.
I'm optimistic. I'm the person who can't believe that people didn't love skyward sword.
I like it when Nintendo surprises me. I don't care much for people who dictate how something should be done ( which is usually, and embarrassingly, based on childhood nostalgia) before they even play it.
Weird comments in here.
I'm optimistic. I'm the person who can't believe that people didn't love skyward sword.
I like it when Nintendo surprises me. I don't care much for people who dictate how something should be done ( which is usually, and embarrassingly, based on childhood nostalgia) before they even play it.
Weird comments in here.
How did you jump to this strange conclusion? I even just said, no too many posts above, that he serves as a consultant. He's still involved and offers input and as such influences projects, but you are greatly over estimating his actual weight on said projects. This is simple logistics at some point on how much a single man would reasonably be able to do over the multiple tens of projects going on at the same time.
nismogrendel
Member
What is this video of Starfox demo actions that people were talking about? I can't find it on YT.
wild wild rice
Member
Right and the bit about prime time vs. late night episodic structures for traditional and experimental gameplay bits. I'm wondering how much, if any, of this stuff is still in.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Regardless of whether this rumor may be true or not, you don't need to have actually played a game yet to make any judgements about it. That's not to say people can go to either extreme of writing off a product completely or saying it will be the best thing ever before they actually get their hands on it, but people can still make some basic predictions for a product based on what pre-release material is available for said product. Otherwise you might as well not make an assumption on any upcoming product ever, positive or negative. I've seen people on both sides making logical explanations for why they think the gyro controls can be a good thing or bad thing for SF Zero.
And it's worth noting that skeptics can be proven right as much as they can be proven wrong. In regards to a fair amount of negative observations made about both titles prior to release, a lot of people who hadn't played but criticized Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash and Animal Crossing: amiibo Festival turned out to vindicated in their assumptions when they were released.
Speaking on my own behalf, I will happily recant my criticisms about Star Fox Zero's design decisions if it turns out to be a great game. But until then / unless that happens I'm calling things as I see them.
I honestly enjoyed the demo a ton and wasn't deterred by the controls, and infact picked it up real fast. The only thing that threw me off was having to to use the right stick for breaking/boosting. That said, a game really has to have some god awful controls to deter me, so at least for me, I adapted real fast.
TDLink
Member
What am I overestimating? All I'm saying is he has a policy of new games in a franchise must bring a new idea in order to justify that entry's existence. And that policy seems to affect essentially every Nintendo franchise. He has stated this in interviews multiple times and about multiple games/franchises. And others have said this about him as well. I'm not saying in general he has more input than that. Especially not on projects in the last 10 years where he has taken this more hands off approach.
That in mind, Star Fox Zero he has said he's more involved with than most other Nintendo projects.
Except Nintendo needs it to be out before they make the Wii U completely irrelevant.
Lionel Richie
Member
Here's the thing man: complaining about stuff you don't know is never reasonable. The explanations are based on a fucking rumor and that's enough for people to write off the game without a) trying it or b) waiting at least for reviews or c) gameplay videos if you're into this shit. But no, some people are in such a fucking rush to say a game they know basically nothing about is bad, can't fault them for not being able to wait and see if it's really bad, right?
If you think 85% of the reactions to a rumor on this thread are great and I'm the one shitposting, well, I don't know what to tell you.
But how would the controls be worse than what was played at e3 2015 by people?
again, has anything really changed? And what does double down mean here? The game was always motion control heavy. Without context, it kind of means nothing. The game hasn't become more interesting or less interesting with that comment imo
...star fox foesn't matter that much. At all. It's not going to outsell mario party 10 or even yoshi imo.
I think you meant "Except Nintendo needs ZELDA to be out before they make the Wii U completely irrelevant"
edit:
oop dp.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
See this response I just made to Boy Wander:
EDIT: And no, I'd argue a lot of the responses made aren't being made purely as a reaction to this rumor. Complaints about SF Zero's gyro controls have persisted ever since the game was revealed, so the criticisms and worries being made in light of the rumor aren't being presented in a vacuum. They're being made in light of everything we've known so far about the game.
Already Torn
Banned
I think it's safe to say that Other M's biggest problem was the story. Other elements like the linearity of the map design certainly made it worse, but a lot of the bad elements (how weapons were unlocked) also game from the terrible story.
TDLink
Member
Whatever people may think here, the fact that they still are essentially not even talking about this game is telling. We have hardly any footage of the game post-E3 and that footage we did see after is essentially just updated versions of the E3 content. For a game that is allegedly two months away, Nintendo is being extremely tight lipped. Nintendo does have a history of staying secretive, but they tend to start talking about their releases sooner than this. People were wondering this same thing when it was supposed to release in November and we hadn't heard anything since E3...and sure enough it was delayed around a month prior to scheduled release.
And I say this is a blanket statement that does not apply generally or even to any sort of majority. And, if you get really loose with the statement, it affectively start boiling down to "sequels should be different from the original". This is just a non-statement, and due to how loose of a phrase it is it can basically be applied to everything and subsequently mean nothing.
From the stuff being gathered, my guess is that they're working in more of the Project Guard and Project Giant Robot stuff and that's what's causing issues as they struggle to nail down the execution of those relatively experimental game modes.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
And generally I love the idea of characters getting older and mature.Sucks about that it's canned tho :/
Already Torn
Banned
If this game does end up being bad because of motion controls, I wonder if everyone will just stop listening to Miyamoto since he completely failed at making the GamePad interesting. Or maybe just make him work on only Pikmin sequels because it actually worked well in Pikmin.
"Watch out, Olimar! That piece of fruit was just picked up by a giant robot!"
"Watch out, Olimar! That piece of fruit was just picked up by a giant robot!"
dreamcastmaster
Banned
Rail shooters are about to make a comeback as a great genre to demonstrate VR.
Beer Monkey
Member
I played the demo, didn't buy Splatoon because gyro aiming...
smashballTaz
Member
I still have (perhaps misplaced) faith that this will turn out great. Fingers crossed! At the very least it will be an interesting failure.
Nocturnowl
Member
Now I've been one of the chaps holding out hope for this one despite everything so far, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm finally reaching a point of wariness with this rumour.
TDLink
Member
It definitely applies to most of Nintendo's games. I challenge you to find even 5 games in established Nintendo franchises from the last 15 years that didn't have something radically different from prior entries in that franchise. They exist, but there aren't many. Nintendo does not like making sequels that are more of the same.
smashballTaz
Member
Gyro aiming in Splatoon can be toggled off if you can't get to grips with it. Not sure about in the demo..
JustAnotherOtaku
Member
Motion controls still optional though, right? Not bothered by this news if it is, seems to be a lot of people finally finding a reason not to have to buy this at the minute.
I think people are overreacting (what else is new).
The concept of Star Fox 0 isn't even that farfetched. Many third person games provide the option to switch to a first person view for more accurate aiming. The main difference is that in SF0 you have the FP view always at the ready at a glance.
Granted, this is very different from how Star Fox usually plays because players didn't have independent control of aiming. You tilted and moved the Arwing to aim. You couldn't aim to the left with the Arwing moving right.
It's more demanding which I suspect is the reason people who've played previous Star Fox games might have struggled at first. I don't remember having to beat spiders by flying over them parallel to the ground while aiming down perpendicular to my heading before.
Now that movement and aiming are somewhat decoupled the game is also more difficult by its very nature and players need to be encouraged to use the best tools even if they might not be the most familiar. If the developers decided that motion (presumably gyro) controls should be mandatory I'm willing to give it a shot.
They're strictly superior in Splatoon because you essentially get another input that moves the aiming reticle more than the camera while the R-stick exclusively spins the camera around. So you no longer have a single stick doing the double-duty of controlling both while being forced to make sensitivity compromises (where low sensitivity gives steadier aiming and slow turning while high sensitivity makes you turn fast but makes aiming jumpy).
The concept of Star Fox 0 isn't even that farfetched. Many third person games provide the option to switch to a first person view for more accurate aiming. The main difference is that in SF0 you have the FP view always at the ready at a glance.
Granted, this is very different from how Star Fox usually plays because players didn't have independent control of aiming. You tilted and moved the Arwing to aim. You couldn't aim to the left with the Arwing moving right.
It's more demanding which I suspect is the reason people who've played previous Star Fox games might have struggled at first. I don't remember having to beat spiders by flying over them parallel to the ground while aiming down perpendicular to my heading before.
Now that movement and aiming are somewhat decoupled the game is also more difficult by its very nature and players need to be encouraged to use the best tools even if they might not be the most familiar. If the developers decided that motion (presumably gyro) controls should be mandatory I'm willing to give it a shot.
They're strictly superior in Splatoon because you essentially get another input that moves the aiming reticle more than the camera while the R-stick exclusively spins the camera around. So you no longer have a single stick doing the double-duty of controlling both while being forced to make sensitivity compromises (where low sensitivity gives steadier aiming and slow turning while high sensitivity makes you turn fast but makes aiming jumpy).
Boy Wander
Member
I don't necessarily disagree but it's the tone of dismissal. It's as if the game is already verified to be crap. Then it escalates and people start throwing fucking Miyamoto of all people under a bus.
Already Torn
Banned
Oh man, could you imagine how bafflingly terrible this would be? Criticism towards otherwise pretty good games like Adventures, Assault, and Command (and the success of 643D) leads Nintendo to think that fans basically just want a game that plays like Star Fox 64, so they make Star Fox Zero.
And then they load it with stupid Project Guard and Project Giant Robo sections just to make sure that even those people who just wanted Star Fox 64 2 won't be happy lol
TDLink
Member
They are, but the problem is the levels are designed around the motion control and two screen setup. So even if you use the analog you still have to deal with aiming in multiple directions, slower speed, and less enemies. All of which is very un-Star Fox. My hope is they change all of this when you are playing Analog, similar to what they did with SF64 3DS, so that it isn't just still designed around using the Gyro. But it seems like a longshot hope.
My guess is that they'll be optional, going by the wiki's assumption that standard Star Fox stuff is like "primetime programming" while experimental modes are "late night programming".
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