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NYT Book Review: In ‘Hitler,’ an Ascent From ‘Dunderhead’ to Demagogue

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T

thebloo

Member
As far as Hitler’s long-term wishes were concerned,” Mr. Ullrich observes, “his conservative coalition partners believed either that he was not serious or that they could exert a moderating influence on him. In any case, they were severely mistaken.”
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Heh.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
1458431063_Everyone-I-Don-t-Like-is-Hitler.jpg
 
E

El Topo

Member
benjipwns said:
Why not instead look at Nixon's? Or Wilson's? Or George Wallace? Or Obama? They're all Americans at least.
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Or rather look at the rise of other populists, e.g. Berlusconi or Farage. There are plenty of political figures one could compare Trump to instead of Hitler.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
benjipwns said:
Germany had a clusterfucked political system too because the Communists, Socalists, etc. refused to form coalitions with each other. And instead spent their time arming their own militias to go fight on the street. The democratic aspects of it had collapsed before Hitler won and the democratic parties were ruling by decree since they couldn't pass legislation or govern traditionally.

A lot of the similarities being quoted all over are also true about most politicians. They lie, they repeat phrases, they talk about greatness for the country, they talk down to voters, they attack opponents, etc. Yeah, that's politics. Hitler was a politician too but he didn't fucking invent it.
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Pretty much. Germany had, de facto, already stopped being a democracy some time before Hitler arrived. Democracy isn't just having a voting system, it requires a series of internalized norms - for example, not using political violence, all agreeing to obey the law, respecting transitions of power; none of which many of Germany's political movements respected. Germany at this stage was already in something like a low-intensity civil war; Hitler just took control during the power vacuum.

I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but there's no real good analogies with Hitler other than the fact they're both politicians you hate who did worryingly well, which is such a loose comparison as to be dull and asinine.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I mean there are a few minor differences between Trump and Hitler, such as being personally in charge of a huge private army, living in a country that has been a democracy for less than 15 years in which a large portion of citizenry are longing for a return to the glory days of authoritarianism, leading a new and upcoming party instead of joining an old and very established one, competing against a disunited and ineffective political opposition, having a large number of sympathetic officials, politicians and judges who gave him a slap on the wrist prison sentence for personally leading a literal armed insurrection against the country, and publishing a book in prison about how it's his country and race's destiny to conquer the east, extinguish Poland and secure a vast, self sufficient territorial empire from Russia and take care of those troublesome Jews.

The comparisons seem implicitly flippant because Hitler isn't famous for being just some random, crazy, lying politician who wasn't taken seriously but then managed to claw his way into power. When somebody is comparing a politician's career path to Hitler's rise to power, that's got a lot of unspoken implications. Trump's terribleness certainly stands on its own without any need to draw strained comparisons to the Weimar republic in 1933 and Adolf Hitler. America is not in a similar situation, the institutions of America aren't similar, and Hitler has as many differences as he does similarities to Trump.

P.S. The Rise and fall of the Third Reich was published in 1960. Historians had barely had time to breathe by 1945.
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Crab said:
Pretty much. Germany had, de facto, already stopped being a democracy some time before Hitler arrived. Democracy isn't just having a voting system, it requires a series of internalized norms - for example, not using political violence, all agreeing to obey the law, respecting transitions of power; none of which many of Germany's political movements respected. Germany at this stage was already in something like a low-intensity civil war; Hitler just took control during the power vacuum.

I dislike Trump as much as the next person, but there's no real good analogies with Hitler other than the fact they're both politicians you hate who did worryingly well, which is such a loose comparison as to be dull and asinine.
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Agreed.

Liberals have lost their minds this election.

Again, Trump would be very bad and is a horrible candidate, but seriously comparing him to Hitler's rise to power?
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
Trump is hardly the only demagogue pushing a racist, anti-immigration agenda in the current climate, anyway.
Look at Europe, every other Euro country has their very own.
 
K

Kifimbo

Member
I think Trump is too much of a manchild to be compared to Hitler.

Not to mention the balance of power with the Constitution, the Supreme Court, Congress and the Senate.

However, someone like Trump is still very dangerous just because nuclear weapons exist.
 
J

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
I appreciate Trump shade as much as the next guy, but I think we can do without bringing up Hitler all the time. Let's let him be scary on his own merits.
 
T

tanooki27

Member
entremet said:
Agreed.

Liberals have lost their minds this election.

Again, Trump would be very bad and is a horrible candidate, but seriously comparing him to Hitler's rise to power?
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the comparison is made because he foments racial division. it's pretty apparent, no?
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
Eh, no need to go Hitler.

He's part of the rise of Strong Authoritarian Politicians in the face of the Immigration issue.

Asswipe Farage, that Steven Segal Wannabe in the Phillippines, etc. etc.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
LosDaddie said:
Nailed it.

Lots of embarrassing posts in this thread.
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The point of the book review is that Trump is never mentioned, but the way Hitler is described instantly reminds every reader of Trump.

So if anything we have to blame ourselfs for making the comparison, because the author never made it.

Thing is that facism is not a terribly complex ideology and its roots can be found everywhere. And the fact that people tend to hold more extreme positions when things aren't going so well is not news either. Happens everywhere all the time.
So yes its easy to make these comparisons, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be aware of the similarities.


In germany people like to use a saying in that context: "Wehret den Anfängen" - "Resist beginnings". (Going back to Ovids latin text "Principiis obsta: sero medicina paratur,
Cum mala per longas convaluere moras." - "Resist beginnings: it is too late to employ medicine when the evil has grown strong by inveterate habit."
Funny enough: He was talking about falling in love with the wrong woman iirc.)

Not everyone is Hitler, but Hitler also wasn't Hitler in that sense when people voted for him.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
Bronx-Man said:
Haha, I also forgot about that time he proposed to to ban an entire religion from entering the country. That was just a bad dream, haha.
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Don't forget the time he proposed to murder entire families as well.


Or the time he said he would force US troops to kill people of their own country because "they'll do what I say"
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Palette Swap said:
To be fair, this could just as well apply to Berlusconi for example.
But yeah, there's a reason people have been drawing these parallels.
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Well wasn't Berlusconi often compared to Mussolini? And wasn't he actually a bit of a fascist?

Unlike Mussolini he didn't have a powerful friend.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
BernardoOne said:
Don't forget the time he proposed to murder entire families as well.


Or the time he said he would force US troops to kill people of their own country because "they'll do what I say"
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To outright say Trump isn't more similar to Hitler than any other main party candidate in recent history is kind of disingenuous.

Hitler was obviously fucking worse, but there are beliefs and actions that absolutely line up with Trump, especially Hitler earlier in his run.

TRUMP SUGGESTED SPECIAL IDENTIFICATION FOR ALL MUSLIMS. Nope doesn't remind you of anything at all!
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'd honestly compare Trump to Mussolini more than I would Hitler. Bungling oafs who talk a big game. Even a lot of their mannerisms seem similar.

698114.gif
 
B

Boney

Banned
People shouldn't take this at face value, both detractors of the parallel and those asserting it.

The importance here is the role of charisma of the political leader, and how given the right circumstances, it can drown out all other voices.
 
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