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[Antiochus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/o...p-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region

Europe is living through a new wave of anti-Semitism. The president of Germany’s Central Council of Jews calls it the worst the Continent has seen since World War II. He may well be right. Attacks on synagogues are an almost weekly occurrence, and openly anti-Semitic chants are commonplace on well-attended marches from London to Rome. And yet it is here, in Germany, where the rise in anti-Semitism is most historically painful.

On Sunday, thousands of people marched through Berlin in response, and heard both Chancellor Angela Merkel and President Joachim Gauck denounce the resurgence in anti-Jewish hatred.

We’ve seen this before, of course. But there’s an important difference this time. The new anti-Semitism does not originate solely with the typical white-supremacist neo-Nazi; instead, the ugly truth that many in Europe don’t want to confront is that much of the anti-Jewish animus originates with European people of Muslim background.

Until recently, Germany has been unwilling to discuss this trend. Germans have always seen Muslim anti-Semitism as a less problematic version of the “original” version, and therefore a distraction from the well-known problem of anti-Jewish sentiment within a majority of society.

And yet the German police have noted a disturbing rise in the number of people of Arabic and Turkish descent arrested on suspicion of anti-Semitic acts in recent years, especially over the last several months. After noticing an alarming uptick in anti-Semitic sentiment among immigrant students, the German government is considering a special fund for Holocaust education.

Of course, anti-Semitism didn’t originate with Europe’s Muslims, nor are they its only proponents today. The traditional anti-Semitism of Europe’s far right persists. So, too, does that of the far left, as a negative byproduct of sympathy for the Palestinian liberation struggle. There’s also an anti-Semitism of the center, a subcategory of the sort of casual anti-Americanism and anticapitalism that many otherwise moderate Europeans espouse.

But the rise of Muslim anti-Semitism is responsible for the recent change in the tone of hate in Germany. Until recently, the country’s anti-Semitism has been largely coded and anonymous. Messages might be spray-painted on walls at night; during the day, though, it would be rare to hear someone shout, as protesters did in Berlin in July, “Jews to the gas!” Another popular slogan at this and other rallies was “Jew, coward pig, come out and fight alone!” — shouted just yards from Berlin’s main Holocaust memorial. And this is the difference today: An anti-Semitism that is not only passionate, but also unaware of, or indifferent to, Germany’s special history.

Talking to Muslim friends, I can’t help but believe that the audacity of today’s anti-Semitism is in part a result of the exploitation of a “victim status,” an underdog sentiment that too many European Muslims have embraced enthusiastically. This is not just the sort of social-science explanation we often hear for hatred, as racism from people who are themselves the victims of racism and discrimination.

Yes, there is discrimination against and exclusion of Muslims in Europe, and many of them certainly have reason to be frustrated. But this sentiment is more complex, born not only from how someone feels about himself and his neighbors, but about himself and his country. It is twofold: Germany’s history is not my history. And: I’ll never fully belong to your nation anyway, so why should I take on its burdens as you do?

One friend, whose parents are from Turkey, told me that when she learned about the Holocaust at her German school, she wondered what all that had to do with her biography. As someone born in 1973, though with blond hair, I could ask the same question.

The point is, it’s not about personal involvement; it is not in our blood, but it is in our history, in the timeline of a place that migrants have become part of. For Germans, accepting responsibility for the Holocaust has to mean feeling ultimately and more than any other nations’ citizens responsible for keeping the memory of its horrors alive — simply because those crimes were ordered from our soil.

Nothing more, but also nothing less has to be expected from every citizen of this country, no matter where her or his parents are from.

What has become obvious this summer is that the “old” Germans have not yet managed to properly deliver this message to all the “new” Germans. Emotionally, this may have been understandable, given how many “bio-Germans,” as we call ethnic Germans, actually had Nazi family members that they still got to know, which may have made them wary of telling others what to think.

But the lesson of the Holocaust is a lesson for mankind. And it’s every German’s job to make that clear at all times and to everyone, regardless of where you think you come from.

 

[markot]

Well the Qur'an is pretty anti Semitic.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Well the Qur'an is pretty anti Semitic.

Here we go again

Smh


Where ?

Quite anti semetic.....

2:63

Surely, the Believers (Muslims), and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in God and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

 

[The Adder]

Well the Qur'an is pretty anti Semitic.

Care to back that up?

 

[AB12]

Well the Qur'an is pretty anti Semitic.

What

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I didn't realize synagogue attacks and other disturbing behavior had become a regular occurrence on that side of the pond.

What's the plan, euros? This really isn't a good look.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Why single out Germany, what about England, France, Netherlands, Sweden, etc. etc.

But then there's also rising anti-Semitism in countries like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, that can't be blamed on Muslim immigrants, it's right wing nationalist types who are certainly no fans of Muslim immigrants either, so it's not that simple. The bottom line is, Europe had a very long history of anti-Semitism long before recent immigration patterns, which have made things worse.

 

[Milchjon]

I didn't realize synagogue attacks and other disturbing behavior had become a regular occurrence on that side of the pond.

What's the plan, euros? This really isn't a good look.

Synagogue attacks aren't (yet?) a major problem, AFAIK.

What I do remember is ugly demonstrations and tons of bullshit on Facebook. Not from my immediate circle, thankfully, but the Palestine thing really lead to a rise in visible antisemitic remarks.

 

[Derwind]

Well the Qur'an is pretty anti Semitic.

??? I'm pretty sure the original parties involved with the Quran and Muslim faith and thier descendents were/are semetic....

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[block tower]

my german step mother was just talking about this subject the other week at dinner. her take on it wasn't quite the same tho lol.

 

[markot]

Oh ok were pretending that the Quran and hadiths doesnt describe Jews as the descendents of pigs and monkeys, and that nature itself wont help the believers kill the jews when the end time comes?

Anti semticism in Europe was embedded in Christianity. Anti semticism in Muslims is embedded in Islam.

Religion motivates people to hate? Whod of thunk it.

Jews had the audacity not to follow Mohammed or Jesus. Thats a paddlin.

the Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (the Boxthorn tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews

A Jewish tree. They wont turn on the Jews though. They got the Jews back.

But no, lets pretend European anti semiticism had to do with politics and economic deprivation. And that Muslim anti semticism is just because of Israel.

Jews are the worst kind of enemies, the sort that used to be friends to god, but turned their back on him by not following the super for real prophets.

Oh and from Iraq, http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...d-Satan-give-birth-to-ISIS-on-Iraqi-TV-375299 Satan + Jewish woman = Isis! In 2014.

 

[Tarsul]

as a German (29 years old) I have yet to be in contact with anyone in Germany who told me he was a Jew, so this whole anti-semitism always seemed so weird to me as I don't even know anyone who is jewish. (Also, religion isn't really much of a casual talking topic here.) Wikipedia tells me there are about 250k Jews in Germany, so for a country with 80 million people it's quite difficult to even notice them (at least for me). Which is even more why I couldn't understand the hatred but if it is indeed coming more from muslims than neo-nazis then it makes more sense to me.

 

[Jarate]

Why single out Germany, what about England, France, Netherlands, Sweden, etc. etc.



But then there's also rising anti-Semitism in countries like Poland, Ukraine, and Russia, that can't be blamed on Muslim immigrants, it's right wing nationalist types who are certainly no fans of Muslim immigrants either, so it's not that simple. The bottom line is, Europe had a very long history of anti-Semitism long before recent immigration patterns, which have made things worse.

He's talking about a specific German problem that might be relevant to Germany and not those other countries listed. And he does say that there are native germans who are still anti semitic, but that the increase in Muslim immigrans is adding more fuel to the fire.

 

[speculawyer]

Here we go again

Smh


Where ?

Quite anti semetic.....

2:63

Here we go again with cherry-picking.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Oh ok were pretending that the Quran and hadiths doesnt describe Jews as the descendents of pigs and monkeys, and that nature itself wont help the believers kill the jews when the end time comes?

Anti semticism in Europe was embedded in Christianity. Anti semticism in Muslims is embedded in Islam.

Religion motivates people to hate? Whod of thunk it.

Jews had the audacity not to follow Mohammed or Jesus. Thats a paddlin.

the Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (the Boxthorn tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews

A Jewish tree. They wont turn on the Jews though. They got the Jews back.

But no, lets pretend European anti semiticism had to do with politics and economic deprivation. And that Muslim anti semticism is just because of Israel.

Jews are the worst kind of enemies, the sort that used to be friends to god, but turned their back on him by not following the super for real prophets.

Oh and from Iraq, http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...d-Satan-give-birth-to-ISIS-on-Iraqi-TV-375299 Satan + Jewish woman = Isis! In 2014.

This this your argument argument on Anti-Semetism?

You said Quran and Hadith describes Jews as descendents of pigs and apes / Monkeys.

Now lets look at the verses:

Quran 2:66
And surely, you have known the end of those amongst you, who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. So We said to them: ‘Be ye apes, despised.’

Quran says those who transgressed in the matters of Sabbath acted like Apes. this refers to the Jewish own tradition that one shall not work on Sabbath and those who did break the Sabbath against Jewish law are called Apes (those who are given instructions but dont understand)

Quran 5:61
Say, ‘Shall I inform you of those whose reward with Allah is worse than that? They are those whom Allah has cursed and on whom His wrath has fallen and of whom He has made apes and swine and who worship the Evil One. These indeed are in a worse plight, and farther astray from the right path.

This refers to the moral condition of those Jews who broke sabbath and instead of worshiping God, started worshiping Satan. it does not mean all jews or that Jews are actually Pigs.

Did you pick up the descendents of Jews and Pigs from a certain middle eastern/african president by any chance and associated it with the Quran and Hadith?

and watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbYGWxQzJ-Y&t=18m45s

18:45-27:00 mark.

 

[markot]

This this your argument argument on Anti-Semetism?

You said Quran and Hadith describes Jews as descendents of pigs and apes / Monkeys.

Now lets look at the verses:

Quran 2:66
And surely, you have known the end of those amongst you, who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. So We said to them: ‘Be ye apes, despised.’

Quran says those who transgressed in the matters of Sabbath acted like Apes. this refers to the Jewish own tradition that one shall not work on Sabbath and those who did break the Sabbath against Jewish law are called Apes (those who are given instructions but dont understand)

Quran 5:61
Say, ‘Shall I inform you of those whose reward with Allah is worse than that? They are those whom Allah has cursed and on whom His wrath has fallen and of whom He has made apes and swine and who worship the Evil One. These indeed are in a worse plight, and farther astray from the right path.

This refers to the moral condition of those Jews who broke sabbath and instead of worshiping God, started worshiping Satan. it does not mean all jews or that Jews are actually Pigs.

Did you pick up the descendents of Jews and Pigs from a certain middle eastern/african president by any chance and associated it with the Quran and Hadith?

and watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbYGWxQzJ-Y&t=18m45s

18:45-27:00 mark.

Next up im going to have a hardcore Jew tell me why whats happening in Palestine is acutally gods will.


So nature itself wont rise up against the Jews? Except for the Jewish bits of nature.

I mean the koran is so poorly written and hard to follow that you can pretty much explain anything as a mistranslation or confusion. And the hadiths are no better.

So, I would also like to hear about how great the jizya was and how Islam is actually the most tolerant religion. Also why women are better off too!

I didnt know that Morsi said that about Jews, I just found it out, I like that he blamed the Jewish media for the 'misinterpretation' though.


There is no argument I could make, or time I could spend, on making you change your mind. The Quran is the perfect word of god. When you have that as your starting point, argument largely becomes pointless. You will happily ignore what the koran and hadiths say about the jews and jump on one statement as proof of the opposite.

Mohammed said : The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (the Boxthorn tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews. You cant ignore that, or twist it away. If that isnt anti semticism, and pure hate for Jews, then I dont know what is. Now if Muslims didnt care about the Hadiths fine. But they do, and they are generally much more anti semetic then the quran, which is also up there.

Now, maybe im wrong, did mohammed say that? Is it going to happen? Do you believe that the trees themselves will help flush out the Jews?