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NYT: Mueller told former Trump campaign chairman Manafort to expect an indictment

The feds managed to get a FISA warrant on him. You don't get a FISA warrant on someone unless they're way deep in some really bad shit. He was utterly fucked from the very beginning. Ditto with Carter Page. You'll see his name in the coming weeks.
 
This is what Putin and trump claimed to talk about, and that trump jr claimed was the topic of his meeting with putins lawyer, correct? thats the connection

Well, they claimed to discuss adoptions of Russian orphans by US citizens, which is understood to be code for lifting sanctions, particularly those imposed on personal finances by the Magnitsky Act.

The Klyuev-connected Putin cronies want to get their names off the Magnistky Act blacklist so they can flip their frozen trophy assets in the US.

We can understand the Russian motivation just fine; the central mystery is what Trump hoped to gain from these negotiations.
 
The feds managed to get a FISA warrant on him. You don't get a FISA warrant on someone unless they're way deep in some really bad shit. He was utterly fucked from the very beginning. Ditto with Carter Page. You'll see his name in the coming weeks.

Not only that, but it was renewed more than once! The reason for that is what I want to know.

Judges do not like to renew a FISA even once.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
And not many federal prosecutors are as able and have the same resources as Mueller. It runs both ways here.

Ok but AUSA's generally have access to much more extensive resources than the defendant. That's one reason the conviction rate is so high. Mueller has a lot of top lawyers but federal defendants are typically hopelessly outgunned, and Manafort probably won't be, from both a legal/financial and political perspective.

What exactly is going to save him from having pretty much all his activities surveilled for three years?

I don't know what you're referring to or how it relates to my point that Manafort is going to have access to resources most federal defendants do not.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
I'm guessing that telling the target of your investigation to expect to be indicted is not a standard practice, right?

Mueller and his team are doing this to apply more pressure to Manafort in hopes that he trips himself up or offers to start singing?

edit: It seems like a bad move to me but what do I know. Manafort seems like exactly the type of guy that could easily skip the country and hole up in Russia.
 

chefbags

Member
They knocked on his bedroom door to wake him up. Bedroom.


tenor.gif


He already dead.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I don't know what you're referring to or how it relates to my point that Manafort is going to have access to resources most federal defendants do not.

It means bringing an AR-15 to a knife fight isn't gonna help you if the other guy is actually rolling up in an M1 Abrams
 
The raid on Manafort's home is old news. The bit about Mueller's team telling Manafort to expect an indictment is new.

And the fact they knocked on his bedroom door to wake him up to tell him the details while they start searching things.

Even Hollywood can't make up a scene like that
 
Well, they claimed to discuss adoptions of Russian orphans by US citizens, which is understood to be code for lifting sanctions, particularly those imposed on personal finances by the Magnitsky Act.

The Klyuev-connected Putin cronies want to get their names off the Magnistky Act blacklist so they can flip their frozen trophy assets in the US.

We can understand the Russian motivation just fine; the central mystery is what Trump hoped to gain from these negotiations.

Money. Trump has been bankrolled by Russian oligarchs for years.
 

epmode

Member
And the fact they knocked on his bedroom door to wake him up to tell him the details while they start searching things.

Nah, that was definitely out there before this article. I remember reading it.

This article seems to be more analysis than straight news.
 
Money. Trump has been bankrolled by Russian oligarchs for years.

That's my hunch as well but nothing revealed so far confirms this, despite the pillars of smoke. Greed is a plausible motive although coercion through kompromat is also a possibility. In any event, his finances are the key.

Mueller working with the tax authority's Criminal Investigations unit and Andy Weismann suggests it's being looked into. And let's not forget Trump's 'red line', warning Mueller specifically to stay away from his money.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Trump turns on the TV to see Manafort being taken out in handcuffs.

He quickly tweets out an announcement that he'll be firing Sessions.

Then he runs to the Oval Office and turns on the light, only to see Mueller sitting at his desk.

"Trying to stop me from filing charges against you? Did you think I'd show my hand if there was any way for you to stop me?

I did it thirty minutes ago."

Comey steps out of the curtains and slaps Trump in handcuffs.
Mmm, too good to happen
 
We can understand the Russian motivation just fine; the central mystery is what Trump hoped to gain from these negotiations.

The central mystery (edit: aka what Trump gains) is this:

1) We get you elected by bot propaganda
2) We let you build Trump towers in Russia and Eastern Bloc countries.
3) We don't release our Kompromat on you.

It's that fucking simple.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
"Paul J. Manafort was in bed early one morning in July when federal agents bearing a search warrant picked the lock on his front door and raided his Virginia home. They took binders stuffed with documents and copied his computer files, looking for evidence that Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, set up secret offshore bank accounts. They even photographed the expensive suits in his closet."


This is going to be a quick montage sequence for the potential film that we get out of this.

No music, only enhanced sound effects:

*Door knob slowly turns after lock is picked*

*quick cut of agents agents swiftly rushing in one by one*

*quick cut of papers/documents being gathered, stacked, and carried out*

*quick cut of suits being photographed with dramatic flashes*

Aww no music?

But I wanted Johnny Cash's 'Man Comes Around' song playing to kick off the movie
 
We can understand the Russian motivation just fine; the central mystery is what Trump hoped to gain from these negotiations.

Praise. Unconditional praise. He can't tell that it's fake.
If Trump was a nobody he would be sending money via western union to a "girl" overseas he met online who needed "help" with medical bills for her family.
 
To quote myself from March this year, when nobody was really talking about Manafort and nobody was talking about the below, except for maybe Rachel Maddow.

Manafort is an illegal Russian agent, being given 10 million dollars a year to advance Putin Government interests (literally). Doesn't inform US government he is being paid by foreign country to advance THEIR interests. Literally treason.

Manafort is given 19 million dollars to start a media company to also push Putin propaganda.

He takes the money and runs.

Russians pursue, and sue manafort.

Manafort becomes Trump campaign leader. For some reason?

Trump becomes nominee for GOP and publicly sucks Putin's dick whenever possible. GOP official stance on Crimea is "relaxed".

Russians all of a sudden stop pursuing manafort for their 19 million. Dollars that he stole.

Reports come in of Trump being Russian puppet.

Manafort disappears from highest position of responsibility for running campaign.

Keeps apartment in Trump towers.

Trump complain s about illegal wire tap.

Turns out govt was investigating illegal gambling ring operating out of Trump tower.

Nunes states that courts authorised monitoring of a foreign agent and picked up Trumps name in communications.

Manafort was a foreign agent for Russia. Illegally. Literally a jailable offense.

All of the above is a coincidence.?

Edit: posted the above in another thread. Someone tell me where I'm wrong. If I'm not wrong, how does this hearing happen and not end in criminal charges?

It turns out that the latter statements about wiretaps from Trump and Nunes' clarification that a foreign agent was being monitored are now being confirmed.

The government was watching Mamaforts foreign interest dealings the whole time.

Which is why I was wondering why we were hearing nothing but Flynn/Sessions/Comey/Kushner and no Manafort, until his house was raided.
 
The central mystery is this:

1) We get you elected by bot propaganda
2) We let you build Trump towers in Russia and Eastern Bloc countries.
3) We don't release our Kompromat on you.

It's that fucking simple.

Yeah, all this seems plausible but it still leaves tons of questions. Let's examine those points as possible motivations for Trump:

Engineering the election: How did Russia pitch this idea that they could tilt the election? Why would Trump and his associates believe the Russians had the capability to do this (it's not like they're well-versed in clandestine active measures.) Mercer and Bannon were into micro-targeting and weaponizing social media bubbles but it wasn't a proven strategy at that point. While Manafort might have had some experience with Belarus and Ukraine operations, even people within the intelligence community hadn't fully grasped the implications of cyberwarfare against democratic processes. This also presumes Trump desired the presidency in the first place (ego, revenge on Obama, legacy) but if he's truly a puppet, how do we know his runners didn't push him in this direction?

Real estate deals as payment: If Trump wanted huge payments for his involvement, why tie his rewards to the Russian state... he's an East Coast real estate mogul, why not have all the money flow into his US-based assets through corporate shell games? The Putin regime could seize or squeeze any Trump businesses in Russia any time they like, similar to the way they took everything from Bill Browder with the stroke of a pen and a few busted heads. And since he'd be deeply compromised in this scenario, there is nothing he could have done about it... Let's remember that the oligarchs want more than anything to get their capital OUT of Russia where it isn't vulnerable to thieves like themselves or a public uprising. Trump would be an utter idiot if that's what he accepted as payment. Not saying he isn't but we really need more evidence here.

Coercion through blackmail: We're talking about the 'grab em by the pussy' guy, who bragged about being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get elected anyway. I'm not sure how character assassination would faze him so maybe the kompromat involves legal jeopardy, like money laundering. circumventing sanctions or vices more heinous than what we know already. For all the hype about the Moscow Ritz Carlton tape, it really doesn't qualify as a major piece of kompromat for this particular guy. There is also the possibility the blackmail targets his family members and he's motivated by the desire to protect them... again, we don't know at this point.

Some people act as if Mueller is severely lagging behind things that are 'obvious' from all the (excellent) investigative journalism but every revelation throws up a ton of new scenarios and lines of inquiry for the investigators.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Engineering the election: How did Russia pitch this idea that they could tilt the election? Why would Trump and his associates believe the Russians had the capability to do this (it's not like they're well-versed in clandestine active measures.) Mercer and Bannon were into micro-targeting and weaponizing social media bubbles but it wasn't a proven strategy at that point. While Manafort might have had some experience with Belarus and Ukraine operations, even people within the intelligence community hadn't fully grasped the implications of cyberwarfare against democratic processes. This also presumes Trump desired the presidency in the first place (ego, revenge on Obama, legacy) but if he's truly a puppet, how do we know his runners didn't push him in this direction?.

One of the theories is that Trump's campaign directed Russia on what to do. If you're going to have any trust in your campaigning strategy at all, you're going to enjoy having those extra resources a country like Russia can provide to execute those strategies. Russia maybe didn't know who to microtarget or what to say to them, but they could put the digital legwork in to target who Trump's campaign told them to target with Trump's campaign's message.

Even just simple money could be the answer. There's been reports about Mueller having a warrant to investigate facebook regarding pro-Trump ads being paid for by Russians.
 
Yeah, all this seems plausible but it still leaves tons of questions. Let's examine those points as possible motivations for Trump:

Engineering the election: How did Russia pitch this idea that they could tilt the election? Why would Trump and his associates believe the Russians had the capability to do this (it's not like they're well-versed in clandestine active measures.) Mercer and Bannon were into micro-targeting and weaponizing social media bubbles but it wasn't a proven strategy at that point. While Manafort might have had some experience with Belarus and Ukraine operations, even people within the intelligence community hadn't fully grasped the implications of cyberwarfare against democratic processes. This also presumes Trump desired the presidency in the first place (ego, revenge on Obama, legacy) but if he's truly a puppet, how do we know his runners didn't push him in this direction?

Trump had Cambridge Analytica. He knew that could give the Russians what they needed to actually effect outcomes. This was extremely valuable. To both sides.

Real estate deals as payment: If Trump wanted huge payments for his involvement, why tie his rewards to the Russian state... he's an East Coast real estate mogul, why not have all the money flow into his US-based assets through corporate shell games? The Putin regime could seize or squeeze any Trump businesses in Russia any time they like, similar to the way they took everything from Bill Browder with the stroke of a pen and a few busted heads. And since he'd be deeply compromised in this scenario, there is nothing he could have done about it... Let's remember that the oligarchs want more than anything to get their capital OUT of Russia where it isn't vulnerable to thieves like themselves or a public uprising. Trump would be an utter idiot if that's what he accepted as payment. Not saying he isn't but we really need more evidence here.

Trump's business is all about expansion with hopes of future profits covering his huge losses and debts from the past. If you saw his actual taxes, and TrumpCorp taxes, you'd see how needy they are. His business is upside down, he has to expand to have hope to survive. Emoluments are helping him but not enough.

Coercion through blackmail: We're talking about the 'grab em by the pussy' guy, who bragged about being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get elected anyway. I'm not sure how character assassination would faze him so maybe the kompromat involves legal jeopardy, like money laundering. circumventing sanctions or vices more heinous than what we know already. For all the hype about the Moscow Ritz Carlton tape, it really doesn't qualify as a major piece of kompromat for this particular guy. There is also the possibility the blackmail targets his family members and he's motivated by the desire to protect them... again, we don't know at this point.

They have way more on him than salacious evidence. They have evidence he sold his country out for personal gain. That is what can kill him. Massive leverage.

Some people act as if Mueller is severely lagging behind things that are 'obvious' from all the (excellent) investigative journalism but every revelation throws up a ton of new scenarios and lines of inquiry for the investigators.

Mueller knows what he is doing.
 

RinsFury

Member
Fuck yes. Start locking them up one by one, lets see how quickly these rats turn on each other when their neck is on the line.
 
I'll be honest, I was partially erect the more I read the article.
Mueller going after Trump and his cronies like an "organised crime syndicate" is music to my ears!
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Some small leaks are good for the public as well. People want assurance that he's doing something, in what's going to be a very long process.
Also so the public can't go "he fired some guy I haven't heard that much about, who cares".
 
Trump had Cambridge Analytica. He knew that could give the Russians what they needed to actually effect outcomes. This was extremely valuable. To both sides

It's still sounding like Louise Mensch fan fiction at this point no?
Targeted ads on social media, hacked voter registration, mysterious network traffic between Trump and Alfabanl.
Mueller has his work cut out for him, now he's pressuring Manafort to flip.

I read that they got a special warrant to allow them to pick the lock and enter unannounced. Normally they have to knock. That means they convinced a judge that Manafort was likely to destroy evidence if they announced their entry.
 
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