-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Official Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix thread
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
MobiusPigeon
Banned
cammy has a pretty big fn BOX :lol
The Take Out Bandit
Member
MobiusPigeon said:
It's an Xbox. :X
Catapult Beetle
Member
This looks like fun. I attempted an HD-ification on Felicia. Unfortunately when I was done I realized that the sprite wasn't quite as big as it should be. Oh well. Some bits didn't come out so well when trying to be exact to the original sprite, the hands specifically.
I never really noticed how wonky the proportions of Capcom's characters were before.
I never really noticed how wonky the proportions of Capcom's characters were before.
what's entertaining is the idiots complaining about Guiles 'flags' being backwards, when in fact that is how they SHOULD be, since he is in the military, and EVERY military uniform has the flag BACKWARDS.
They are like that for a reason, mainly symbolism. I can't believe the uneducated would be so quick to complain about something they know so little about. Amusing
They are like that for a reason, mainly symbolism. I can't believe the uneducated would be so quick to complain about something they know so little about. Amusing
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Jirotrom said:
Yeah sorry I forgot to answer earlier.
Well, so yeah, drawing took me 40 minutes, inking an hour and colors another hour. But thats me in my house doing whatever the hell I want. In a studio I would have an art director, producers and Capcom Japan people on my neck, so it would probably take me longer because of all that bureaucracy.
I also wasn't thinking about how its going to animate, and thats a whole other issue in terms of how do the colors and shadows animate from one pose to the other, then we consider how the inking would have to be a lot more precise than what I did, maybe color the line edges so they aren't black, keep the style consistent with all the other characters in the game AND on top of all that test it in game and see if it sucks or not ... yeah man, it doesn't compare at all and its probably why those anatomical hiccups happen. Its easy to make ONE sprite look badass, but its hard to make the 200+ sprites a character might have keep that level of quality.
Add to all that that its a 9 to 5 job, you dont know just how many artists are in the studio and youve got yourself a daunting task for a group of people whove NEVER worked on a videogame before.
Shogmaster
Member
Ether_Snake said:
Jesus Christ you f'n elitist Animu dorks like to poop on EVERYTHING without actually knowing shit. Did you even consider the f'n scale when it comes to line thickness?
The delicate line art for Chun Li you linked is all but gone at the correct scale even in 720p. There is a reason they are doing the art style that way so kindly STFU unless you REALLY know better than the pros.
Yeah...thats what I figured...thats why i've kind of been preaching that we should really be happy that any effort is being taken at all...to top it off they are considering redoing Guile's sprite for the fans, that says alot considering the time constraint. Thanks for the explanation as I'm really not in the know, but being a musician I understand what its like to be pressured by many people so i figure thats how these guys feel.Raging Spaniard said:
Shogmaster
Member
Even the style of the line art gets lost at the proper scale. They AREN'T gonna give Chun Li tons of muscles (except maybe the thighs).bigben85 said:I think by line art, he probably meant the style it was drawn and not how thick/thin it is. Just a guess
MickeyKnox
Member
Why are you responding to him with a line weight comparison...?Shogmaster said:
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Shogmaster said:Jesus Christ you f'n elitist Animu dorks like to poop on EVERYTHING without actually knowing shit. Did you even consider the f'n scale when it comes to line thickness?
The delicate line art for Chun Li you linked is all but gone at the correct scale even in 720p. There is a reason they are doing the art style that way so kindly STFU unless you REALLY know better than the pros.
Oh man, looking at this I can't wait to see the whole game complete game shot. Awesome. Must be a bitch to it all keep consistent through all the frames with sprites of such high level of detail.
Shogmaster
Member
Line weight is the biggest differentiation between his example and what people are responding too. If you look at official Capcom art for all those old games, they were all drawn with muscles pooping out of the pours. Who do you think all the Udon artists grew up emulating? They all bought Capcom Illustrations book like I did 10 years ago and copied the styles of official Capcom artists such as Bengus and the like.MickeyKnox said:
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Jirotrom said:
Well of course I appreciate the effort, but just because they're doing something cool does that exclude them from criticism, which in turn helps them provide a better looking product.
So for example, right now I'm doing Concept Art for EA and doing a good job at it, but I'm going around asking people at the studio for where I'm messing up, what they don't like, etc, etc. Having somebody being critical of your art is an essential step for growth. If we all sit down and kiss UDON's feet, then the game isn't really going to benefit at all, no matter how cool it is that they're making the effort to make Street Fighter relevant again.
"Line weight is the biggest differentiation between his example and what people are responding too. If you look at official Capcom art for all those old games, they were all drawn with muscles pooping out of the pours. Who do you think all the Udon artists grew up emulating? They all bought Capcom Illustrations book like I did 10 years ago and copied the styles of official Capcom artists such as Bengus and the like."
I don't know about the line art but I assume it is true that their art influenced a lot of young artists. I didn't even know what their names were but they did the drawings for SF2-SSF2T.
Now, the thing is, as off as some of the original spirits are, and as exaggerated as those drawings back then, they had their basis in reality. I never learned figure drawing until I was 21 and I never learned anatomy until I was 26 in colleges, but I had some good understanding on how some joints and muscles looked. Now if a kid growing up with the Udon art, think in what way it will influence him. Not that Udon art isn't appealing, but they don't have as good a foundation as some Capcom artists.
I don't know about the line art but I assume it is true that their art influenced a lot of young artists. I didn't even know what their names were but they did the drawings for SF2-SSF2T.
Now, the thing is, as off as some of the original spirits are, and as exaggerated as those drawings back then, they had their basis in reality. I never learned figure drawing until I was 21 and I never learned anatomy until I was 26 in colleges, but I had some good understanding on how some joints and muscles looked. Now if a kid growing up with the Udon art, think in what way it will influence him. Not that Udon art isn't appealing, but they don't have as good a foundation as some Capcom artists.
Shogmaster
Member
I wasn't talking about how appealing a drawing is or a character's proportion, poses etc, just the parts that make up the joints, the muscles, the faces. proportion is a big deal but both of them have some issues, hell we (artists) all have to deal with these problems, to some degrees. But there needs to be an understanding of form and structure even though it is all exaggerated in this kind of drawings.
Shogmaster
Member
The point you are missing is that the Capcom art style in the Street Fighter is not about being anatomically accurate, but presenting hyper-exaggerated anatomy of super human characters. There is ALOT of exaggeration on purpose.bigben85 said:
Christopher
Member
Shogmaster said:
uh exactly...I can't even believe there is an arguement about that one.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Shogmaster said:
Bingo.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Dude, there is big difference between near damn everybody and Rob Liefied! It goes without saying!
like I said, there is lots of exaggerations, and incorrectly proportioned figures in most any SF products. But I don't see Superman having 200 more muscles than me though being that he is superior to me. We all fake/cheat some stuff when it comes to drawings but the difference is that a good cheater is one that is convincing.
and btw, I didn't see half of the Capcom SF2 drawings growing up...so I can't say they were all good...but those I saw were good.
and btw, I didn't see half of the Capcom SF2 drawings growing up...so I can't say they were all good...but those I saw were good.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
HomerSimpson-Man said:
Here's where the subjective nature of the art comes in.
The only reason people bitch about Rob Liefield and not Udong; is because Liefield isn't tracing Capcom art books.
They're both all about shitty art.
Udong are a bunch of cut-rate Capcom wanna-bes.
Rob Liefield was a cut rate George Perez (analyze his story telling, panel layouts, and even the characters he created).
At the very least - at the time, there was nothing like Liefield in comics. Udong on the other hand - well when Capcom stops making games/artbooks their existence might be validated.
In comics and video games, in the mainstream, it's less about being technically accurate; and more about drawing something that's visually exciting. I was just as amped as any other nerd by Bengus's SFA art.
Looking at it today, it's just as bad as Liefield art. It's just more anime friendly.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Raging Spaniard said:
You ass-tard. Way to make this thread NSFW.
Shogmaster
Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Let me introduce you to the official Capcom art for Street Fighter II Turbo.
The Take Out Bandit said:
And what does that make you, my good friend?
The Take Out Bandit
Member
And what does that make you, my good friend?
You point me to where I'm selling myself as a Capcom fartist; and blatantly swiping from Capcom design works - and I'll stop kinda-sorta-drawing-when-I'm-not-boozing-or-wanking.
Shogmaster
Member
I keep forgetting that you are still working on your Playa Hating Degree. Carry on.The Take Out Bandit said:You point me to where I'm selling myself as a Capcom fartist; and blatantly swiping from Capcom design works - and I'll stop kinda-sorta-drawing-when-I'm-not-boozing-or-wanking.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
I'm for reals on that too.
Because if my shit looks like 1991 Akiman - that's a lot of time I could spend on care free bourbon drinking; without my conscience nagging me to draw.
Because if my shit looks like 1991 Akiman - that's a lot of time I could spend on care free bourbon drinking; without my conscience nagging me to draw.
Shogmaster
Member
If my shit looked like 1991 Akiman, I'd gladly join you on that perpetual drinking binge without a care in the world. :lolThe Take Out Bandit said:I'm for reals on that too.
Because if my shit looks like 1991 Akiman - that's a lot of time I could spend on care free bourbon drinking; without my conscience nagging me to draw.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Crayon Shinchan said:
Hey its only man-pecs and clearly theres no dong there, its totally safe.
Ah yeah, the Turbo art, still cool looking today I think (and for the record, I thought Liefeld was the best ever ever back in the 90's, at least the SF stuff still holds up for me)
And the point I was trying to make is that Akiman obviously knows anatomy and it shows, he stylizes it, uses a great layout and ends up with a very eye pleasing illustration.
Liefeld, on the other hand, thinks all that stuff makes sense, makes a ball for a hand, fits 3 fingers because thats all the room he has, hates drawing feets so hell come up with a dust cloud or some shit and voila. Big difference
TheJollyCorner
Member
:lol what's an ass-tard?
Seems like the general style is aiming for a more Westernized version of the Super Turbo Revival art:
I'm with bigben on this. Just because stuff is exaggerated doesn't mean there's not a real anatomical basis. Overall Udon's stuff looks nice, but there are some oddities with the muscles that make them look a bit off.bigben85 said:
Spot on. Exaggeration is fine (I prefer it over the lazy 'realistic' style) or even making up muscles but you have to have a solid foundation to even began to break the rules. And if they're gonna break the rules, at least keep it consistant.USD said:
I don't see how making Akuma's arms look like a mutated Kurt Angle's (one smaller and atrophied looking compared to the other, including muscles that shift around like mashed potatoes) is a good thing in anyone's book. It's something that any art director worth his salt should have noticed right away.
This HD art doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Capcom's Marvel art (such inspired character designs, up there with Dark Stalkers). And it compares poorly to the old SFII Turbo art.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Shogmaster said:Jesus Christ you f'n elitist Animu dorks like to poop on EVERYTHING without actually knowing shit. Did you even consider the f'n scale when it comes to line thickness?
The delicate line art for Chun Li you linked is all but gone at the correct scale even in 720p. There is a reason they are doing the art style that way so kindly STFU unless you REALLY know better than the pros.
Your avatar suits you well.
If you ever get tired of it, make one out of this:
Shogmaster
Member
I'm very confused by the way this thread is all turning out. Checking out the thread carefully, all the people who nagging this shit to death seems to be self proclaimed art pros in their profiles. Is this just the case of expressing personal art style hang ups or are they actually trying to make case over correct anatomy being necessity for SF sprites?
Forgetting the fact that as someone who draws for a living, I don't personally like to openly criticize other's art unless my art is noticeably better than theirs, I can't even fathom how anatomically correct figures doing crazy Street Fighter moves would look desirable.
The reason I hated Street Fighter The Movie arcade game was because digitized actors doing SF moves looked absolutely ridiculous. The reason SF works in my eyes is that the over the top art style of the sprites absolutely fits the over the top moves of the game.
And if you look at the line art done for the sprite animation of Capcom 2D fighters of the past, you will see that the anatomy is NEVER correct but ALWAYS exaggerated. Udon is just doing the same, but in higher detail. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. IT'S ABOUT CAPCOM'S PREFERENCE. And they chose Udon to do the job (under their supervision mind you) for a good reason. Let's just put away our personal art preferences, hang ups, feelings of inadequacy or whatever and just enjoy the results for f*ck sakes.
Forgetting the fact that as someone who draws for a living, I don't personally like to openly criticize other's art unless my art is noticeably better than theirs, I can't even fathom how anatomically correct figures doing crazy Street Fighter moves would look desirable.
The reason I hated Street Fighter The Movie arcade game was because digitized actors doing SF moves looked absolutely ridiculous. The reason SF works in my eyes is that the over the top art style of the sprites absolutely fits the over the top moves of the game.
And if you look at the line art done for the sprite animation of Capcom 2D fighters of the past, you will see that the anatomy is NEVER correct but ALWAYS exaggerated. Udon is just doing the same, but in higher detail. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. IT'S ABOUT CAPCOM'S PREFERENCE. And they chose Udon to do the job (under their supervision mind you) for a good reason. Let's just put away our personal art preferences, hang ups, feelings of inadequacy or whatever and just enjoy the results for f*ck sakes.
That's why I said a more Westernized version of itxfactor said:its still drawn by a Japanese, just FYI
I'll guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the whole anatomy thing, personally I don't care that much, I was just making it a point. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, what we've seen so far looks very nice, flaws and all.Shogmaster said:
tahrikmili
Member
I just tought of something..
Are the sprites being redrawn as vector art? Because if not, at this point in time, that's a real shame. Resolution increases are only going to be gradually more and more frequent..
Are the sprites being redrawn as vector art? Because if not, at this point in time, that's a real shame. Resolution increases are only going to be gradually more and more frequent..
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
tahrikmili said:
I keep hearing in these threads that making such detailed vector art would be a really enormous undertaking (even worse for animation heavy titles like Street Fighter III), but still with these quite detailed and high-resolution sprites even if you had to scale them up using a filter like 2xSAI or HQ2x or others you would still get pretty good results (it is unlikely that we will need to have 400% bigger sprites due to rendering resolution needs).
Shogmaster
Member
tahrikmili said:
Doing vector art in that detail would take WAY too long. It's much faster to do high res bitmap art that you can scale down later, and that I think is their approach since the sprites at the full size is way too big for the background @ 720p. They are more in line with the background @ 1080p, but I don't think they are doing 1080p...
Also keep in mind that it's fairly easy to take a detail bitmap art and turn it into vector. It doesn't take artistic skill to do that so they can get any monkey to churn those out with something like Live trace in Illustrator, if you have a good bitmap source to work with.
In fact, that seems to be the approach they are taking since the art is not using any gradient tools to render the sprites with. Pretty smart, really.
OOPS! I just found out that it is indeed 1080p game.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
tahrikmili said:
Resolution increases aren't going to be anymore frequent.
Why would you think resolution increases are going to be more frequent?