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Older Disney Animation Quality

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Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'd argue he was kinda a crappy villain all things considered but he was played really well

The whole point of those tests is so that the animators would know what to go for and how the characters should be animated. And they captured it wonderfully. It's literally just the 2D style captured in 3D.

tumblr_ngdf9oONe21s3h1d3o3_500.gif

tumblr_ljvedcIR1x1qahqkio1_500.gif

with that said the 2D doesn't have the "same face" look the 3D models have

Lmfao that couldn't have been made to be anything other than a joke right? There's multiple distinct reasons why simpler styles and character designs are the norm in western animation. Less is more philosophy=easier for the audience to remember the character design, easier to animate so that the end result looks better being two of the biggest reasons. Anime has some shit tier animation more often than not, and not so coincidentally, the most memorable ones don't use insanely detailed designs.

That was a troll image.
 

BadWolf

Member
In the making of Glen Keane mentioned that he did over 10,000 drawings for that Duet short in the span of a year O_O.

Did Glen Keane bail out of Disney because frozen was not made in 2D?

Pretty sure he left because he knew he would be working on 3D movies moving forward, they even had him do some concept art for Wreck It Ralph.

He also said that he wanted to do something where people could see his lines on the screen instead of the cleaned up work, like that scene in Pocahontas. And if you look at his new short Duet it's exactly that.

It's not just him though, other greats like Andreas Deja (Jafar, Gaston, Scar, Hercules, Lilo etc.) have left as well. He even mentioned in an interview that they were working on a new 2D film after PatF but that probably got canned so he left.

It's pretty clear that he, Glen and the others still want to work in 2D, which ain't happening at Disney.
 

3phemeral

Member
The short he did for Motorola Spotlight is stunning. If you think the animation is stunning in 2D, you're missing how amazing it looks when you're using it on a Moto X, where you can pan left and right to change perspective, watch the story progress, and just feel more involved. It's a beautiful piece of work.
 

Nev

Banned
I think Princess and the frog would've been cooler in 3D, and on the other hand I'd love to see Tangled or Frozen in 2D. I love how old Disney movies look, I watched some Cinderella video and was amazed at how good, gorgeous and full of charm the animation is, while all of the 3D movies look exactly the same, I swear they have like a single female face template. Jesus it's so boring, go back to 2D already.
 
The short he did for Motorola Spotlight is stunning. If you think the animation is stunning in 2D, you're missing how amazing it looks when you're using it on a Moto X, where you can pan left and right to change perspective, watch the story progress, and just feel more involved. It's a beautiful piece of work.

How smooth does it look there? I've read that he animated it at 32 frames per seconds to be played at 60. (so basically animated at 2s but for 60 instead of 24).
 

3phemeral

Member
How smooth does it look there? I've read that he animated it at 32 frames per seconds to be played at 60. (so basically animated at 2s but for 60 instead of 24).

It doesn't look like 60 FPS to me, but it's relatively smooth. Each character splits off and you follow them by rotating the camera around. If you venture off in the wrong direction, the music fades away and a butterfly appears to guide you. Also, the parallax is better realized in the interactive version.

I tried recording it in 60FPS but it wasn't feasible. To follow the action, you have to move the camera and the phone in sync and even with image stabilization, everything was a blurry, shaky mess.

I imagine having to process the various layers in relation to the phone's movements while achieving 60 fps might have been too taxing on the system.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'd argue he was kinda a crappy villain all things considered but he was played really well



with that said the 2D doesn't have the "same face" look the 3D models have



That was a troll image.
Good to know that's a troll image. Also the same face thing seems is pure coincidence to me. Less so in Frozen, because it's not that weird that two sisters and their mother would look very alike.
 

Mistle

Member
Seeing the pencil tests makes the animation seem so alive. It's really incredible to behold.

Also, I'd say Tangled is still the closest CG has gotten to the 2D animation style. Frozen was a step back (but still nice). Glen Keane really did wonders directing the Tangled team to bring 2D philosophies to 3D.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Good to know that's a troll image. Also the same face thing seems is pure coincidence to me. Less so in Frozen, because it's not that weird that two sisters and their mother would look very alike.

IIRC, the lead animator on Frozen said that Anna & Elsa's faces were the hardest part of Frozen, because the higher-ups insisted that they had to be "Pretty, like Rapunzel." He basically had no freedom to work with their faces, but he still had to make sure that their faces somehow conveyed personalities that were different from each other (and Rapunzel). He was very proud of what he was able to accomplish, even though people accused him of sameface.

If you notice, all of the men in Frozen have unique faces, and none of them look like Flynn.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
IIRC, the lead animator on Frozen said that Anna & Elsa's faces were the hardest part of Frozen, because the higher-ups insisted that they had to be "Pretty, like Rapunzel." He basically had no freedom to work with their faces, but he still had to make sure that their faces somehow conveyed personalities that were different from each other (and Rapunzel). He was very proud of what he was able to accomplish, even though people accused him of sameface.

If you notice, all of the men in Frozen have unique faces, and none of them look like Flynn.
I think he accomplished his task, I never once thought that the characters looked like Rapunzel and was surprised by all the comparisons, was so strange but internet is gonna internet.

I remember a lot of outrage at the use of the word "pretty" when talking about the facial animations.

"Historically speaking, animating female characters are really, really difficult, ’cause they have to go through these range of emotions, but they’re very, very — you have to keep them pretty and they’re very sensitive to – you can get them off-model very quickly,"

As an animator, it made me really angry to see people taking the word pretty out of context when he really meant that the characters have to look good visually at all times and not broken or stretched out too far like in something like hotel Transylvania.
 

jett

D-Member
Seeing the pencil tests makes the animation seem so alive. It's really incredible to behold.

Also, I'd say Tangled is still the closest CG has gotten to the 2D animation style. Frozen was a step back (but still nice). Glen Keane really did wonders directing the Tangled team to bring 2D philosophies to 3D.

Yep the animation in Tangled is a wonderful achievement. Frozen is not really close.
 
I thought the beginning of Enchanted had some beautiful animation. That's what I imagined a 2D Disney movie would look like nowadays.
 
I dont think the 3D we are wacthinf right now by Disney is bad, in fact is amazing (as cool as Wreck it Ralph looks in 2d tests, the movie needed 3D becuase of the theme it was tacklin), but it would be beuatiful if we could return, just for a few movies, to 2d animation. Like maybe Disney doing, 1 2D, 2 3D cycle. I would be happy with that.

o

m

g


ulnClLl.gif


Which Earth-# did this version exist on

I need to phase there permanently

In the Earth were PATF was a major success :(
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Tangled moved beautifully. Frozen was boring and there was nothing memorable about the animation. Agreed.
Holy hyperbole. The facial animation in Frozen was awesome with a lot of nuances. And of course the snow effects, and the entire let it go sequence, actually, all of the songs had some wonderful animation.
05-mentalsync.gif


And they did a lot of playing around with making the two sisters having different personalities,
 

zeemumu

Member
Tarzan isn't what comes to mind for me when I think of classic Disney animation (my mind goes off into the 50's movies) but it was extremely well-made.
 

jstripes

Banned
I'll never buy the statement that 2D animation dwindled because of CGI animation. It dwindled because the majority of CGI animated movies made starting in the late 90s had better stories, characters, and execution. There were perfectly good 2D films too, but on the whole they were inferior. Then some executives took a look at the data and determined that the CGI movies were making more money than the 2D ones and assumed it was because people loved the technology, instead of contemplating that maybe they were just better films. And then Princess and the Frog was merely okay, and Winnie went up against Harry Potter. How could anyone expect those movies to be smash hits? But nope, it must be because nobody likes 2D animation anymore.

Also, just rewatched Fantasia the other day. That movie is still one of the best-looking things I've ever seen.

Disney's animation got stuck in a rut. They had a run of great movies in the early '90s, so they stuck to that formula... and it fell flat. Pixar came out of nowhere with brand new ideas, not just a brand new technique, and blew everything up.
 
Lmfao that couldn't have been made to be anything other than a joke right? There's multiple distinct reasons why simpler styles and character designs are the norm in western animation. Less is more philosophy=easier for the audience to remember the character design, easier to animate so that the end result looks better being two of the biggest reasons. Anime has some shit tier animation more often than not, and not so coincidentally, the most memorable ones don't use insanely detailed designs.

Yeah. Anime is usually drawn on fours (One drawing for every four frames of film, or 6 frames per second) while American animation is usually drawn on twos (12 fps) and some of the higher-budget stuff (Disney features, for example) is drawn on ones (24 fps).

A lot of productions will animate at multiple framerates (Say, twos for a dialogue scene and ones for an action scene) so these are generalities.
 

Xun

Member
Seeing the pencil tests makes the animation seem so alive. It's really incredible to behold.

Also, I'd say Tangled is still the closest CG has gotten to the 2D animation style. Frozen was a step back (but still nice). Glen Keane really did wonders directing the Tangled team to bring 2D philosophies to 3D.
Indeed.

As I said earlier the clean-up stage of animation can ruin much of the work in my opinion.
 
2D animation will have a comeback once people eventually get tired of 3D animation.

I find statements like this to be strange. I hear similar statements about going back to practical visual effects. It's like saying "Black-and-white film will have a comeback once people eventually get tired of color."
 
I find statements like this to be strange. I hear similar statements about going back to practical visual effects. It's like saying "Black-and-white film will have a comeback once people eventually get tired of color."

Are those suppose to be analogies? It's not like 2D is some antiquated method of animation that was moved past because CG was the way of the future. It's not like people are advocating going back to purely hand drawn 2d, but digital 2d animation is just as viable nowadays as CG
 
Yeah. Anime is usually drawn on fours (One drawing for every four frames of film, or 6 frames per second) while American animation is usually drawn on twos (12 fps) and some of the higher-budget stuff (Disney features, for example) is drawn on ones (24 fps).

A lot of productions will animate at multiple framerates (Say, twos for a dialogue scene and ones for an action scene) so these are generalities.

When you say 1 drawing every 4 frames, do you actually mean 1 drawing (with duplicates in between), or 1 keyframe drawing?
 

Cream

Banned
Holy hyperbole. The facial animation in Frozen was awesome with a lot of nuances. And of course the snow effects, and the entire let it go sequence, actually, all of the songs had some wonderful animation.
05-mentalsync.gif


And they did a lot of playing around with making the two sisters having different personalities,

Agreed. There needs to be way more CGI love in this thread.

tumblr_n0cmks317b1tqqihyo1_500.gif


wreck__it_ralph__president_vanellope_gif_by_vanellope_schweeetz-d61lnch.gif
 
Are those suppose to be analogies? It's not like 2D is some antiquated method of animation that was moved past because CG was the way of the future. It's not like people are advocating going back to purely hand drawn 2d, but digital 2d animation is just as viable nowadays as CG

It's more like people are saying that CGI is supposed to be a temporary thing, and that people should abandon it and move back to traditional methods.
 

UrbanRats

Member
http://i6.minus.com/i0j5XpMmQkvC4.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
If a robot were to do art, this is probably what it'd come up with.
This dude would probably slap Alex Ross' shading over Mike Mignola's art, too.

[quote="Not The Droid You're Looking For, post: 147867134"]More Tangled gifs. I really like how the film looks, especially on Blu-Ray, but having it done in traditional animation would've been neat.
[img]http://38.media.tumblr.com/ee5f30ddef12966295a56c7a17d74e8e/tumblr_mwo7vs4kP71stqenpo1_500.gif
tumblr_muxns4LUM21s6put5o3_500.gif

tumblr_muxns4LUM21s6put5o1_250.gif

fml.
 
Out of their latest releases I think Wreck it Ralph was the only one that benefited from being in 3D.

From the look of those gifs Tangled would've looked a lot better in 2D.
 
I'm waiting for a resurgence of black and white myself

People will never be tired of 3d animation as it's always looking better and better with each big film.

This will never happen.

I find statements like this to be strange. I hear similar statements about going back to practical visual effects. It's like saying "Black-and-white film will have a comeback once people eventually get tired of color."


It'll happen, you just got to believe.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Please, Disney, just release all the storyboard sketches stitched together into some loose resemblance of a film.

PLEASE.

PLEASE.

PLEASE DISNEY.
 
i am pretty ignorant in this field but it always impresses me how the many animators that work on a film are able to work in a particular director's (or key artist's or whoever's) style. like don bluth films look like don bluth art, lilo & stitch looks like chris sanders' work etc.
 
As much as it sucks, everywhere but Japan just isn't that interested in 2D.

Princess and the Frog was the last shot 2D had and it performed mediocre. Disney tried again with Winnie the Pooh but it bombed horrendously. The last successful 2D film was The Simpsoms movie but the reasons why being 2D didn't hinder it are obvious.

It's more like people are saying that CGI is supposed to be a temporary thing, and that people should abandon it and move back to traditional methods.

That is an even worse comparison.

2D has a completely different look and feel than 3D. It is a completely different art style.
 
I made a Don Bluth thread a while back but it only focused on his early four movies (Nimh, American Tail, Land Before Time, All Dogs) so I would love to see a thread that got more into his obscure stuff. His art is so beautiful and charismatic. I don't really know what he's up to now but it'd be great if someone was willing to produce another movie of his. Anastasia and Titan AE proved he still had it even after his flops.

Did you all hear about the Anastasia stage musical they're working on? I hope it pans out.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Yeah. I miss the days of Aladdin, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid. I know its not Disney, but Titan A.E was epic. I hope for another scifi type animated cartoon. CG is getting a little stale for me lately.
 

Vice

Member
I made a Don Bluth thread a while back but it only focused on his early four movies (Nimh, American Tail, Land Before Time, All Dogs) so I would love to see a thread that got more into his obscure stuff. His art is so beautiful and charismatic. I don't really know what he's up to now but it'd be great if someone was willing to produce another movie of his. Anastasia and Titan AE proved he still had it even after his flops.

Did you all hear about the Anastasia stage musical they're working on? I hope it pans out.

He's mainly been doing books and a website. It was rumored that he was working on a new film a couple of years ago.
 

Toxi

Banned
Sounds like a nostalgia bias talking
No, that's hardly it. There's a lot more expressiveness in the faces, especially in the second gif, than I ever saw in Tangled.

Don't get me wrong, I love 3D animation and think it can look just as expressive as 2D. Unfortunately, Disney's non-Pizar 3D output has all suffered from very limited expressiveness; part of this is the laughably uncreative character design (Elsa and Anna are the main characters of Frozen, so why the hell do they have the same face?), but another part is that they're just not very good at capturing emotions besides a default one.
The whole point of those tests is so that the animators would know what to go for and how the characters should be animated. And they captured it wonderfully. It's literally just the 2D style captured in 3D.

tumblr_ngdf9oONe21s3h1d3o3_500.gif

tumblr_ljvedcIR1x1qahqkio1_500.gif
No, they're really not as expressive. And that makes me sad.
 
There's a lot more personality in these gifs than in the 3D models... :-\


Not a fair comparison, there are tons of times where a sketch has more personality than the final project. It doesn't just happens with 3d, it happens with painting.
 
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