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[crazygambit]

BAHAHA

this thing is going to be cracked after a couple of months, and the pirates won't have to deal with the online checks/used games policy at all.

I think the article is complete nonsense, but I doubt this very much. They've surely learned their lessons this time around. The PS3 was uncrackable for years, this gen might very well be pirate proof.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

So now that the nobody cares thing is demonstrated as something you made up, what is your point here? That unless everyone cares about Apple's closed system no one should care about what MS is doing?

Did you actually read my initial post? In response to people chastising Microsoft for transitioning to a more closed system with their restrictions on used games and whatnot, I replied with the statement that Apple has a closed system, and yet based on how well they are doing in the marketplace, it would appear that consumers overall don't seem to care.

So now the Xbox One ISN'T a high-end machine?

It is, but my reply was in response to people suggesting that Apple has a low barrier of entry for their products, which is DEAD WRONG.

 

[unbias]

They seem to be doing just fine to me, better than most right now I'd say...

What is your point, I never said they were hurting? People do care about the closed system, and it is a major factor in why apple has been consistently losing market share. Google and their support of android and tablets has been making leaps and bounds, and with the success of the HTC one and Samsung as well they are losing more and more market share.

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:GOOG

Competition has/is caught/catching up and this giant is more then capable of consistently taking away market share as long as they maintain their more pro-consumer freedom stance, by comparison.

 

[Diagol]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

This can't be quoted enough. Wow, what a great post.

 

[Mindwipe]

I think the article is complete nonsense, but I doubt this very much. They've surely learned their lessons this time around. The PS3 was uncrackable for years, this gen might very well be pirate proof.

I suspect having Windows present underneath might not work out so well for them in this regard.

 

[neoism]

This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced. If the system phones home every so often to check on your licenses, and there is no way to play a game without that title being authenticated and a license being active, piracy becomes harder. You'll never be able to stop pirates, not entirely, but if you can make the act of pirating games non-trivial the incidence of piracy will drop. This is a good thing for everyone except those who want to play games for free.

So piracy reduction, although not elimination, will likely be a solid byproduct of this system.

The next thing is that the used-game market all but disappears. GameStop may not be able to aggressively hawk used games for $5 less than the new price to customers under these new controls, which is great if you're a developer or publisher. Once that secondary market is removed you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold, and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop. Some stodgy publishers will likely stay with the $60 model, but they're dead companies walking already. The smart companies will see this opportunity to play with pricing and see what works and what doesn't.

Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One. It's not a sure thing, but killing used games is going to free up a ton of money for companies to try new ideas in terms of sales and pricing. The people who get innovative and take advantage of this structure will thrive. The rest are likely to slowly choke on the new economics of game development.

It needs to be made clear, if all the studio closings and constant lay-offs haven't made this explicit: The current economics of game development and sales are unsustainable. Games cost more to make, piracy is an issue, used-games are pushed over new, and players say the $60 cost is too high. Microsoft's initiatives with the Xbox One may solve many of these issues, even if we grumble about it. These changes ultimately make the industry healthier.

 

[dookeh]

Do any of you have problems with the PC model as it currently stands? It seems to me both Microsoft AND Sony will be implementing models that are almost exactly like those practiced on the PC. If both companies provide the same options for discounts, promotions, sales, etc. on their games and other media, would you be willing to give up some of that consumer freedom as PC gamers do now?

Games that require an internet connection on PC have been vocally criticized for years now. Now take that, and apply it to every single game on PC instead of some, and you can only buy your games through the Windows Marketplace. And you have to pay a yearly subscription to use Windows. That sounds fan-fucking-tastic doesn't it.

 

[Moonstone]

So if this is good news, what's with child's play?

 

[mafuchi]

We are at the start of the digital future, and with that comes new interpretation of law that was not made to support current technology.
In the US we have 1st sale doctrine, it's what allows you to buy and sell physical goods as you please. Have a couch you don't like, sell it; have a record you think is trash; sell it. Basically corporate entities were never meant to have a monopoly on their goods, they only have one on the 1st sale of the item, after that it's up whoever bought it to use/sell how they see fit.
The law is from the 70's and uses the word "phonorecords," perhaps out of date.
We've seen the first case of resale of digital rights go down in the US with ReDigi, a service to resell your MP3s. While the resellers lost the case due to a misunderstanding of how technology works and a narrow interpretation of the law, it is sure to be taken to a higher court.
In the EU they have already solved this problem, the high courts ruled the resale of digital goods is legal and Steam is currently in litigation in Germany over it.
With the way the world is going, I can't see how any company can try to clamp down on the reselling of goods digital or otherwise.

 

[jay]

Did you actually read my initial post? In response to people chastising Microsoft for transitioning to a more closed system with their restrictions on used games and whatnot, I replied with the statement that Apple has a closed system, and yet based on how well they are doing in the marketplace, it would appear that consumers overall don't seem to care.

To play devil's advocate, Apple completely controls their marketplace and nobody seems to give a shit. Why should Microsoft be any different?

I took it as, "why do you people say you care when you embrace Apple doing it," so my point was that a lot of people do actually care that Apple is controlling. If you meant it as, "consumers like to be fucked so they'll embrace the next corporate cock they find bearing down on them" then I agree with you.

 

[D4Danger]

compare this

It's partially the developing industry's own goddamn fault for aiming for the stars and the moon and suddenly realizing that they aimed too high. Who is asking for games that cost into $100 million dollars and took an entire generation to make? Would the sales be impacted if that were halved or quartered? Is there enough sales potential (realistic, actual sales potential, none of this "it might sell better than Pokemon" bullshit). We've seen good looking games made on smaller budgets. Look at the stuff coming out of Eastern Europe for god sakes.

The industry aimed too high, suddenly started ballooning budgets, and then went "oh god there aren't any sales here to cover it up." Their response to this? Homogenize, wring the AAA space of any creativity and put the advertising on full blast. But we can't have smaller budgets, oh no. We've got to have our mo-capped dogs and celebrity voice actors that nobody fucking asked for. We've got to cover the cost of letting you develop your game for five years because you have no direction. We've got to cover you trying to wedge into an already saturated market of shooters and brown, and then failing miserably.

And then, time and time again, the consumers are expected to show up at the door every time these developers come out with some new way to make the package look worse. Oh, now you get half the content. Oh, now we're going to sell you that content back to you over a period of a year. Oh, now we're placing your game's access on computers you don't control, and then those computers won't work. Oh, now the game doesn't actually belong to you, it never did.

If the industry was smart, they would have had a linear progression of costs, but they're run by idiots who don't understand the market. Instead, they're baking these stupid anti-consumer things into the console, and selling the console on silly TV fluff and apps that half your entertainment center already runs. Because, sure, that will get people to buy a $500 monolith instead of a $50 Roku. Who the hell comes up with this shit?

Thus we're left with the consumers having to continue putting up with shitty decisions that negatively impact their side of the transaction because the fish move out of the way. It's about time people started getting pissed off.

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

to this

The current economics of game development and sales are unsustainable. Games cost more to make, piracy is an issue, used-games are pushed over new, and players say the $60 cost is too high. Microsoft's initiatives with the Xbox One may solve many of these issues, even if we grumble about it. These changes ultimately make the industry healthier.

 

[Brannon]

Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One

He's being deliberately obtuse, because I refuse to believe that he's this incompetently stupid.

 

[DarkFlow]

I thought bluray itself was a good deterrence to pirating.

If your talking about size, Internet speeds have increased enough that downloading a bluray is not that time consuming anymore. You could easily download a full blu ray in a few hours or less.

 

[AkuMifune]

So if this is good news, what's with child's play?

Oh those bedridden children are going to love the new Kinect.

 

[Nibel]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Dave got ethered (again)

 

[JDSN]

So if this is good news, what's with child's play?

Fuck those entitled little moochers.

 

[jay]

Fuck those entitled little moochers.

They need to focus on getting a dependable internet connection.

 

[ramoisdead]

The posts by hardcastlemccormick and Burai...

...why, I do believe I have a tear rolling down my cheek. It was beautiful.

 

[jschreier]

That post should be emailed to every video game publisher on the planet.

 

[Ponn]

So if this is good news, what's with child's play?

Holy Shit i didnt even think about that. Guess kids in hospitals with no open wifi networks are just being entitled.

 

[Surface of Me]

There was a games sale last year that had some actually good deals, and IIRC MS said it would be annual.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Boom.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I used to like PA

 

[Zabant]

he PS3 was uncrackable for years, this gen might very well be pirate proof.

This was because nobody was trying to crack it. It took sony removing present features in the PS3 (other OS) and pissing of the linux crowd to open the flood gates for the pirates.

Edit: if i remember correctly, the 360 was cracked within a year also. Pirates will always find a way.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Fuck those entitled little moochers.

I'm dying here! This thread is definitely delivering the goods. Who knew that a disgusting twitter comment from a piece of human garbage would lead for this greatness.

 

[mightynine]

It is, but my reply was in response to people suggesting that Apple has a low barrier of entry for their products, which is DEAD WRONG.

Currently $0 for an iPhone 4 on contract.

 

[hauton]

Who does the PA Report?

How do they consistently have the most godawful contrarian pageview-whoring editorial stances on every subject?

I haven't seen a single mention of the PA Report that isn't followed by inane tripe like this bullshit.

It's awful.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Big box gaming's second hand market has always been huge, to the point where second hand games fund the consumer to buy new games, the store I work for (CeX) makes most of it's money through second hand games. There will be a torrent of people against Microsoft doing this sort of thing, that's the main difference, the public and corporate opposition.

As for apple, there has never been a market for second hand apps so people don't expect it, the secondhand music market has been irrelevant since the introduction of the .mp3 format. If people don't want to pay for music, they pirate it due to how incredibly easy it is.

Gaming will be the final frontier for the all digital future, it's the only large digital media market that still has a huge secondhand sector. If sony offer a platform where the old ways are still viable, people will flock to them and stores will have much larger shelf space dedicated to that platform. Nobody will see the xbox because nobody will be playing or supporting it outside of the few diehards

How this plays out is just a matter of waiting. My money is on sony, the AAA industry cannot be supported on an all digital future that blocks second hand at this point in time. The casual gamer that cannot afford to buy new wont suddenly be able to afford it, they will move on to something else. The hardcore gamer that cant afford will find other methods to satiate their habit.

Very good points, but I think people are delusional if they actually believe that one company will have restrictions on used games while the other won't. How does that make sense for any of the gaming companies, third party especially? If you're Activision, and you sell COD on both the Xbox One and PS4, you're not going to fracture your market by allowing Microsoft to restrict used games (thus providing residual profits), while letting Sony just do whatever the hell they want and leave all used games unrestricted like the current model. If that were the case, the company might as well just be exclusive to one console.

 

[scytherage]

If prices were going to drop you would think they would say something about that right now. They need the good press. Why stay silent about that?

 

[jay]

Very good points, but I think people are delusional if they actually believe that one company will have restrictions on used games while the other won't. How does that make sense for any of the gaming companies, third party especially? If you're Activision, and you sell COD on both the Xbox One and PS4, you're not going to fracture your market by allowing Microsoft to restrict used games (thus providing residual profits), while letting Sony just do whatever the hell they want and leave all used games unrestricted like the current model. If that were the case, the company might as well just be exclusive to one console.

People have taken Sony's confused and often vague PR to mean that by no means will any of this anti-consumer stuff happen on their console. There are going to be a lot of sad gaffers.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Currently $0 for an iPhone 4 on contract.

One example of barely any other ones. I should have brought over my exact statement from before when I specified that "on average" they do not have a low barrier of entry.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Who does the PA Report?

How do they consistently have the most godawful contrarian pageview-whoring editorial stances on every subject?

I have seen a single mention of the PA Report that isn't followed by inane tripe like this bullshit.

It's awful.

It complements the rest of their content.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Just want to say that Burai's posts is the stuff of legend. So much fucking truth my eyes could barely handle it.

Oh, and the sentiment that paying for Internet monthy is a de facto entry gate to playing fucking video games is garbage peddled by fools for fools.

 

[Foffy]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

Hey bro, are you married?

 

[Shinta]

People pay attention to the Penny-Arcade Report? They're just as bad as Polygon/Kotaku at times.

They seem significantly worse to me.

 

[MWS Natural]

Feels like someone trying to sell me on trickle down economics. I didn't buy it then either.

 

[zkylon]

compare this





to this

so embarassing.

good job well-spoken gaf for taking the shit right back to them

 

[unbias]

They seem significantly worse to me.

Eh, Sophie wasn't too bad, the few times I ahve gone there. Ben though couldn't maintain a proper argument if his life depended on it. This is why he mainly sticks to twitter, hell this could be applied to 90% of the game industry. Twitter is the safe haven for ignorance.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

It's partially the developing industry's own goddamn fault for aiming for the stars and the moon and suddenly realizing that they aimed too high. Who is asking for games that cost into $100 million dollars and took an entire generation to make? Would the sales be impacted if that were halved or quartered? Is there enough sales potential (realistic, actual sales potential, none of this "it might sell better than Pokemon" bullshit). We've seen good looking games made on smaller budgets. Look at the stuff coming out of Eastern Europe for god sakes.

The industry aimed too high, suddenly started ballooning budgets, and then went "oh god there aren't any sales here to cover it up." Their response to this? Homogenize, wring the AAA space of any creativity and put the advertising on full blast. But we can't have smaller budgets, oh no. We've got to have our mo-capped dogs and celebrity voice actors that nobody fucking asked for. We've got to cover the cost of letting you develop your game for five years because you have no direction. We've got to cover you trying to wedge into an already saturated market of shooters and brown, and then failing miserably.

And then, time and time again, the consumers are expected to show up at the door every time these developers come out with some new way to make the package look worse. Oh, now you get half the content. Oh, now we're going to sell you that content back to you over a period of a year. Oh, now we're placing your game's access on computers you don't control, and then those computers won't work. Oh, now the game doesn't actually belong to you, it never did.

If the industry was smart, they would have had a linear progression of costs, but they're run by idiots who don't understand the market. Instead, they're baking these stupid anti-consumer things into the console, and selling the console on silly TV fluff and apps that half your entertainment center already runs. Because, sure, that will get people to buy a $500 monolith instead of a $50 Roku. Who the hell comes up with this shit?

Thus we're left with the consumers having to continue putting up with shitty decisions that negatively impact their side of the transaction because the fish move out of the way. It's about time people started getting pissed off.

Doesn't Kotaku sometimes make headlines out of GAF posts?

They should do it for these two.

Dat ether.

 

[mightynine]

One example of barely any other ones. I should have brought over my exact statement from before when I specified that "on average" they do not have a low barrier of entry.

Yeah, even I felt it was weak when I did it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The only reason the PC model works is because of what Steam started. Are you saying that Sony and MS will start having deep discounts as a counter to the potential loss of an entire market?

And that's ignoring the reason a system like Steam has to exist on the PC, while it has no place on closed systems. PC gaming was faced with a huge problem of widespread, easy to access piracy, and a system like Steam had to be created to counter that problem. No such problem exists on the 360 or PS3.

 

[Kinyou]

That's a whole lot of optimism.

 

[Zabant]

Very good points, but I think people are delusional if they actually believe that one company will have restrictions on used games while the other won't. How does that make sense for any of the gaming companies, third party especially? If you're Activision, and you sell COD on both the Xbox One and PS4, you're not going to fracture your market by allowing Microsoft to restrict used games (thus providing residual profits), while letting Sony just do whatever the hell they want and leave all used games unrestricted like the current model. If that were the case, the company might as well just be exclusive to one console.

I personally think sony will, publishers will just have incentives for playing on the xbone over the ps4. The cod DLC, and EA's fantasy league stuff is a good example.

If sony don't implement this anti consumer bullshit people like Activision and EA wouldn't dare not release on their platform due to how expensive these games are to make, it's a catch 22. If anyone blinks the entire house of cards that is the gaming industry might fall apart.

Just imagine if EA pulled support for the ps4 because they couldn't block used games and everyone bought one anyway because of how bad xbone has been received, it would be throwing money away.

 

[Sulik2]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

This post needs to get front page sticky on Neogaf. He literally could not have explained what is wrong with the current games industry any more perfectly.

 

[ActStriker]

That post should be emailed to every video game publisher on the planet.

You probably have the actual capability to do it.

 

[silentQ]

I totally agree with everything said about how this used game policy is horrible but next question is will this system completely sink because of this policy. Does anyone know if any early opinions from potential customers have come in like some solid numbers of projected sales at this point in time you know like an actual projected impact. If not I would be interested if a solid poll came out, although I doubt those numbers would see the light of day. It would be terribly unfortunate if the consumers did not speak with there wallet on this one because it would set a dangerous precedent.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I totally agree with everything said about how this used game policy is horrible but next question is will this system completely sink because of this policy. Does anyone know if any early opinions from potential customers have come in like some solid numbers of projected sales at this point in time you know like an actual projected impact. If not I would be interested if a solid poll came out, although I doubt those numbers would see the light of day. It would be terribly unfortunate if the consumers did not speak with there wallet on this one because it would set a dangerous precedent.

Game sales will shrink just by the lack of money consumers will have to spend without used games.

We'll probably see sports titles suffer the most, as people cling onto them since they're unable to get rid of old years to get a discount on new years. Yearly releases will probably suffer too, especially single player outlets like Assassin's Creed that won't have value anymore due to being short and unable to be "upgraded" easily to the next game.

I suppose he's right though. Game prices will fall. Probably pretty quickly, but not in a healthy, consumer friendly way. More in a clearing unsold stock sort of way.

 

[unbias]

I totally agree with everything said about how this used game policy is horrible but next question is will this system completely sink because of this policy. Does anyone know if any early opinions from potential customers have come in like some solid numbers of projected sales at this point in time you know like an actual projected impact. If not I would be interested if a solid poll came out, although I doubt those numbers would see the light of day. It would be terribly unfortunate if the consumers did not speak with there wallet on this one because it would set a dangerous precedent.

Latin America has used care tariffs, and they have in no way helped them... Beyond that though, most industries, while they may not like the 2nd hand industry, normally are not dumb enough to actively try and stop it... This industry though seems to think that 2nd hand sales is forgone growth of the industry, which is just ignorant.

 

[Zabant]

You probably have the actual capability to do it.

As much as I'm sure we'd all hoist him above our shoulders and cheer for doing as much, he probably values his job.

 

[Hot Coldman]

That post should be emailed to every video game publisher on the planet.

Put it up on Kotaku then.