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[Kittonwy]

Just when I thought Pachter couldn't get any more wrong... he goes and says something completely right. In the face of the 3DS and iOS devices, it's doomed. The former is coming from the dominatrix of the handheld arena, and the latter is the definition of mass market penetration. Both will be here long before PSP2 does. It doesn't stand a chance except for the niche graphics horse demographic (assuming that is its target audience, which it probably will be).

It has nothing to do with either, it has everything to do with software, Sony doesn't own a stranglehold handheld IP like Pokemon or Mario, they can't release a handheld Zelda, years and years of over-reliance on third-party IPs has fucked them over in terms of the ability to command a loyal group of hardcore fans who will flock to their own first-party IPs on a handheld, they're remedying the situation on the PS3 but they can't fight on two fronts.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think people here focus too much on the raw power of the PSP2 or 3DS and ignore other possibilities that Nintendo and Sony might do.

The biggest advantage Apple has is those cheap downloadable games. What prevent Nintendo and Sony from going much deeper with their AppStore-like market in the next generation of handheld gaming?

The advantage Nintendo and Sony have is that they already nurture a group of people who are willing to buy $30-40 handheld games from the previous generations - people who pay $40 for a retail Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest. This is something Apple cannot do with their market and their downloadable-only device.

What Nintendo and Sony need to do is to expand their online market presence with more $2-3 PSN/DSshop games and have more sale from time to time. Microsoft and Sony seem to be doing much better lately with their frequent sale of games on PSN and Live. As long as they free up their online market, give it a better interface for the online shopping experience, and be less rigid in their sales and regulations, they can have the best of both world (high budget retail and cheap downloadables).

Sony might do it. I worry about Nintendo. They recognize Apple as their biggest threat, but will they try to take them head on or settle for second place?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Sony might do it. I worry about Nintendo. They recognize Apple as their biggest threat, but will they try to take them head on or settle for second place?

Nintendo's strategy this gen has been to try to find a way to not compete.

Direct competition is bad - it ruins your bottom line. Innovation is all about avoiding it.

 

[Kittonwy]

Nintendo's strategy this gen has been to try to find a way to not compete.

Direct competition is bad - it ruins your bottom line. Innovation is all about avoiding it.

Nintendo doesn't have to compete, they have fiercely loyal fans who love IPs that only they can provide, people always wonder why Nintendo has survived despite third-party publishers basically fucking them over, other platform holders won't last very long without third-party publishers, Nintendo doesn't need third-party publishers to be viable.

 

[seady]

I think it'll sell like hotcakes in japan but I've been having the same feelings he has about handhelds for years now... if you have a smart phone what is the point of them? You can play better games on them yes but when do u have time to play those games all the way through? Most handheld games I play are like angrybirds.. and i play for about 5 minutes.

That's like saying
"If I have a Wii what's the point of having a 360/PS3? Most console games I play are like Wii Sports…. and I play for about 15 minutes."

Just like Pachter or those casual gamers on the Wii, the people who say this kind of things don't care much about handheld gaming to begin with.

Maybe you would argue "on-the-go" gaming don't need to be deep and just need to be something like Angry Birds, but so is my mom who think "gaming as a whole" don't need to be Halo or Final Fantasy, and just need to be Wii Sports. You are just discrediting the whole history of handheld gaming - that consisted of deeper games like Pokemon from the Gameboy era to Dragon Quest on the DS era - to just simple games like Angry Birds and Cut the Rope.

 

[jman2050]

Sony might do it. I worry about Nintendo. They recognize Apple as their biggest threat, but will they try to take them head on or settle for second place?

They don't have to take them head on. They have Pokemon, that alone pretty much means they're set.

 

[Fafalada]

The NDS sales are cracking? It's only sold like 140 million units

You know - PS2 sales started cracking after 6 years too - and look at it now - it's dead in the water. For sure NDS will follow the same fate shortly, the man knows what he's talking about.

 

[Rhindle]

Sony does seem a bit confused at the moment. So they're releasing a PSP2 next year. And they're releasing a PSP phone concurrently. And its evidently not compatible with PSP or PSP2. And they're going to get publishers to support these concurrently, right after they took a bath on PSP development.

 

[Kittonwy]

You know - PS2 sales started cracking after 6 years too - and look at it now - it's dead in the water. For sure NDS will follow the same fate shortly, the man knows what he's talking about.

The question is where does handheld gaming fit between phone games/existing handheld games and home console games? Phone games work because they're cheap to make, handheld games are getting more and more fucking expensive and they will never match their console counterparts.

 

[Kittonwy]

Sony does seem a bit confused at the moment. So they're releasing a PSP2 next year. And they're releasing a PSP phone concurrently. And its evidently not compatible with PSP or PSP2. And they're going to get publishers to support these concurrently, right after they took a bath on PSP development.

They need to figure out whether they want to make a phone or they want to make a handheld, they can't do both, the phone market is moving so fast that I'm not sure it's even worth putting the playstation brand on a phone.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Nintendo doesn't have to compete, they have fiercely loyal fans who love IPs that only they can provide, people always wonder why Nintendo has survived despite third-party publishers basically fucking them over, other platform holders won't last very long without third-party publishers, Nintendo doesn't need third-party publishers to be viable.

What does that have to do with anything? No, they're in no danger of surviving as a going concern (they never were, even in the darkest days of the Gamecube), but that's not what they care about - they care about profits.

In order to do that, they need to find ways of selling to more and more people. That means competing with other companies muscling into their current and future markets. Owning the Pokemon IP isn't going to help them convince teenage girls to buy their products.

 

[ZealousD]

They need to figure out whether they want to make a phone or they want to make a handheld, they can't do both

But that's exactly what they're doing. They are doing both. We know the PSP2 is coming, and we've already seen the prototypes of the new Sony Ericsson phone that looks rather playstationesque.

 

[Kittonwy]

But that's exactly what they're doing. They are doing both. We know the PSP2 is coming, and we've already seen the prototypes of the new Sony Ericsson phone that looks rather playstationesque.

The problem is that you put a new phone out there and it's probably good for what? Six months until something cooler comes out?

 

[disappeared]

/

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

It has nothing to do with either, it has everything to do with software, Sony doesn't own a stranglehold handheld IP like Pokemon or Mario, they can't release a handheld Zelda, years and years of over-reliance on third-party IPs has fucked them over in terms of the ability to command a loyal group of hardcore fans who will flock to their own first-party IPs on a handheld, they're remedying the situation on the PS3 but they can't fight on two fronts.

It has just as much to do with hardware - the 3DS has the ultimate unique selling point in the form of the glassesless 3D. If it was just a DS with updated graphics, then it would have to rely on software, but it is much more than just that already so there is little point even debating it. As far as we know, Sony doesn't have anything that will leave as big an impact as glassesless 3D. Dual analog? A touchpad? Who cares?

It is not just about updated graphics anymore, as the Wii already proved when it steam-rolled the competition thanks to the controller. It's game changers like this which push a company from last place to first - anyone can tell you that 75 million Wii sales do not come from just the hardcore fans. Nintendo get that new hardware now needs innovations to sell, not just more polygons (although the 3DS can still produce very nice looking software), and they no longer need to rely on just the hardcore fanbase because of said innovations.

 

[Jonnyram]

But that's exactly what they're doing. They are doing both. We know the PSP2 is coming, and we've already seen the prototypes of the new Sony Ericsson phone that looks rather playstationesque.

Not the same hardware, though. PSP2 is going to be a beast. It needs to be.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Owning the Pokemon IP isn't going to help them convince teenage girls to buy their products.

[completely off topic anecdote]

This gave me horrible flashbacks to this time I was in high school. I was stage managing a play with a girl I had a crush on and one of the stage workers was a friend who I would play, among other games, Pokemon with. Ruby had just come out and we were talking about it and the girl comes by. I clam up and try to change the subject, he keeps talking because he's oblivious.

She says "Are you guys talking about Pokemon?"

He replies "Yeah, you got a problem with that?"

I facepalm harder than one could possibly imagine with a sharp slapping sound and she walks away laughing. The guy then turns to me and says "Man, what was her problem?"

OH MY GOD IF POKEMON GOT THE TEENAGE GIRL AUDIENCE HIGH SCHOOL WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER FOR ME

[/completely off topic anecdote]

 

[CrunchyFrog]

They need to figure out whether they want to make a phone or they want to make a handheld, they can't do both, the phone market is moving so fast that I'm not sure it's even worth putting the playstation brand on a phone.

This is exactly why I think the PSPhone is bunk. You're already starting to see newer iphone 4 games being incompatible with iphone2g's which would be ok since there's usually an expected turnaround of about 2-3 years on phones anyway, but adapting that model to the playstation brand and a new phone will be less likely to catch because the converting dedicated handheld audience which this is clearly being marketed to is not going to be receptive to that short of a term investment on something that's supposed to provide cutting edge and "quality" experience. It'll be interesting to see exactly what financial model they try to go for with the phone, probably the worst kept secret since the- oh wait the Go was only last year (and judging from how they handled THAT debacle I don't expect much better results this time around, proprietary formats, ahoy!)

 

[onegoodlogan]

You know the thing Kotaku and the like do where they take a quote out of context for a headline that everyone here complains about all the time? This. Thread.

Pachter is just saying that PSP2 isn't going to move iPod numbers and, unless someone brings back the SCE of a decade ago, he's probably not wrong.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

my question is whether or not psp2 will be different from the "psp phone"? and if they are different, will games run on both devices? cause if both systems are incompatible, that's likely going to cause a lot of confusion.

 

[boiled goose]

i think that phones and ipods will definitely cut into the expanded market of the DS and PSP. The core gamer base will remain intact though. They will probably lose some older gamers and some females.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

You know the thing Kotaku and the like do where they take a quote out of context for a headline that everyone here complains about all the time? This. Thread.

Pachter is just saying that PSP2 isn't going to move iPod numbers and, unless someone brings back the SCE of a decade ago, he's probably not wrong.

Even IN context it's still a rather definitive line clearly thrown out by Pachter himself to cause a stir. "Dead on arrival" is not the same as "below average on arrival"

 

[Takao]

[completely off topic anecdote]

This gave me horrible flashbacks to this time I was in high school. I was stage managing a play with a girl I had a crush on and one of the stage workers was a friend who I would play, among other games, Pokemon with. Ruby had just come out and we were talking about it and the girl comes by. I clam up and try to change the subject, he keeps talking because he's oblivious.

She says "Are you guys talking about Pokemon?"

He replies "Yeah, you got a problem with that?"

I facepalm harder than one could possibly imagine with a sharp slapping sound and she walks away laughing. The guy then turns to me and says "Man, what was her problem?"

OH MY GOD IF POKEMON GOT THE TEENAGE GIRL AUDIENCE HIGH SCHOOL WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER FOR ME

[/completely off topic anecdote]

I would've been like this to that dude:

maybe she wanted to trade her Torchic for your Ho-oh?

 

[Barkley's Justice]

i think that phones and ipods will definitely cut into the expanded market of the DS and PSP. The core gamer base will remain intact though. They will probably lose some older gamers and some females.

to this point, the handhelds are on dangerous ground: if the majority of older gamers have "moved on" to iphone or android games, and now all the kids are starting to get into iPads and iTouches what's left for the handhelds?

3ds? i think 3ds will be just fine. i think it will be a smashing success in fact. but the whole psp2...i just think it's reaching for the kind of functionality already present in the iOs devices. but they're just gonna throw in some dual analogue sticks and feel accomplished. i dont think that will cut it against the 3ds and the itouch/iphone.

 

[Takao]

my question is whether or not psp2 will be different from the "psp phone"? and if they are different, will games run on both devices? cause if both systems are incompatible, that's likely going to cause a lot of confusion.

It'll be impossible for the Phone with the specs we've heard to run PSP2 games since every idication we've got about that platform is that it's a beast. I'm not sure if the PSP2 would be able to run the Phone's games, but I'm not really sure if it would matter. The demoed games on the phone have been versions of Call of Duty, God of War, and Little Big Planet. All three are franchises that are bound to make the jump to the PSP2 at one point.

 

[enzo_gt]

Hey I'm on my iPhone but if someone could link to the part of the Chappelle show where the barbershop reacts to John Mayer playing guitar alone inside the barbershop, that'd be nice.

That's exactly what I think of Pachter.

 

[charlequin]

the phone market is moving so fast that I'm not sure it's even worth putting the playstation brand on a phone.

Luckily the PlayStation brand isn't on the phone.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

[completely off topic anecdote]

This gave me horrible flashbacks to this time I was in high school. I was stage managing a play with a girl I had a crush on and one of the stage workers was a friend who I would play, among other games, Pokemon with. Ruby had just come out and we were talking about it and the girl comes by. I clam up and try to change the subject, he keeps talking because he's oblivious.

She says "Are you guys talking about Pokemon?"

He replies "Yeah, you got a problem with that?"

I facepalm harder than one could possibly imagine with a sharp slapping sound and she walks away laughing. The guy then turns to me and says "Man, what was her problem?"

OH MY GOD IF POKEMON GOT THE TEENAGE GIRL AUDIENCE HIGH SCHOOL WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER FOR ME

[/completely off topic anecdote]

I remember getting cockblocked by my oblivious high school friends too.

* Gets mugged on Memory Lane *

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

I really don't think that Mike's taking into account this little Island Nation called Japan.

I dont think anyone really does anymore.

 

[Door2Dawn]

This one time I said something negative about patcher in a "patcher says something dumb again" thread and I was hit with a month ban for "insulting another neogaf user".

Tread carefully.

Didn't know he was a gaffer. Noted.

 

[Kuran]

to this point, the handhelds are on dangerous ground: if the majority of older gamers have "moved on" to iphone or android games, and now all the kids are starting to get into iPads and iTouches what's left for the handhelds?

3ds? i think 3ds will be just fine. i think it will be a smashing success in fact. but the whole psp2...i just think it's reaching for the kind of functionality already present in the iOs devices. but they're just gonna throw in some dual analogue sticks and feel accomplished. i dont think that will cut it against the 3ds and the itouch/iphone.

So a 3d gimmick is fair game, but actual buttons and dual analogue sticks wont cut it?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

So a 3d gimmick is fair game, but actual buttons and dual analogue sticks wont cut it?

They don't have the wow factor. They add functionality, but that's hard to put into a slogan or an ad campaign.

 

[Gospel]

/

\

 

[onegoodlogan]

Even IN context it's still a rather definitive line clearly thrown out by Pachter himself to cause a stir. "Dead on arrival" is not the same as "below average on arrival"

I'm not saying it wasn't a bit hyperbolic, but if he considers what the PSP has done to be "dead on arrival" than I don't think it would be a huge stretch to say the PSP2 might do the same.

 

[Ranger X]

Something Pachter doesn't get is that parent will buy a 3DS at 199$ way before an I-pod Touch at 399$.

Apple am not taking over yet until they have a machine at 199$ or less. PSP2 however might be doomed if goes over the price of the 3DS though.

 

[Kuran]

Something Pachter doesn't get is that parent will buy a 3DS at 199$ way before an I-pod Touch at 399$.

Apple am not taking over yet until they have a machine at 199$ or less. PSP2 however might be doomed if goes over the price of the 3DS though.

Did you get the memo about 3DS most likely costing 300+ USD?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Something Pachter doesn't get is that parent will buy a 3DS at 199$ way before an I-pod Touch at 399$.

Apple am not taking over yet until they have a machine at 199$ or less. PSP2 however might be doomed if goes over the price of the 3DS though.

You can get an iPod Touch for cheaper than the PSP debuted for in the US 5 1/2 years ago. Oh, and you can get a brand new latest version iPod Touch right now for $215... not $399.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-touch-Generation-NEWEST-MODEL/dp/B001FA1O0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291706301&sr=8-1

btw... this comes with a $15 gift card making it $200

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Did you get the memo about 3DS most likely costing 300+ USD?

$300+ seems a little crazy on, well, your part.

 

[The M.O.B]

Something Pachter doesn't get is that parent will buy a 3DS at 199$ way before an I-pod Touch at 399$.

Apple am not taking over yet until they have a machine at 199$ or less. PSP2 however might be doomed if goes over the price of the 3DS though.

Already Do.

 

[NeoUltima]

If its simply a PSP2...then yeah, I agree.
Needs something fresh, something new, and needs to be relatively cheap out of the gate.

 

[Veins]

Never change Pachter :lol

 

[Night_Trekker]

And thats what Patcher is like to me, as a big shit.

Well, he does tend to accompany information chaos.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm worried he's correct. PSP2 is not a sure thing at all. I hope it has some sort of market disruptive features (at the very least.... really fucking good graphics... and even that's no sure thing).

 

[seady]

Was there even confirmation that the PSPhone will not play PSP games?

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that it doesn't have a PSP name branded on it. Just like you wouldn't want the iPhone to be called "iPod Phone" or "iPod Touch Phone".
Even if it doesn't play PSP games from the get go, with the power of the PSPhone (able to run Android 3.0) and the control pads, Sony can open the gate for it to download PSP games from the PSN store anytime they decide to.

I am also sure Sony will not limit it to just one single phone. Unlike Apple who for some reason only like to have one product for each line on the market at one time, every other phone manufacturers like to have multiple phones on the market at the same time to cater to different levels of consumers. Sony can have the Playstation (and its controls) branded on their Xperia phones early on, and then introduce the Playstation brand to their entry level phone later on. Once it has enough Playstation branded phones on the market, they can decide anytime to open the gate for people to download PSP games.

Sony Ericsson are pretty popular in Asia. Imagine everyone with a Sony Ericsson phone suddenly be able to play Monster Hunter 3rd or 4th?

 

[jamesinclair]

I wonder if his salary has any relationship to his predictions and how they turn out.

I'm guessing no.

 

[bhlaab]

Something Pachter doesn't get is that parent will buy a 3DS at 199$ way before an I-pod Touch at 399$.

Apple am not taking over yet until they have a machine at 199$ or less. PSP2 however might be doomed if goes over the price of the 3DS though.

Yeah, unless iOS devices start targeting kids they'll never sell more than a measly 120 million in three years.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I do agree that the iOS devices are going to have a greater and greater impact on the gaming market, but to say that DS are cracking, that the handheld market in trouble is a massive over step.

He's just way off here.

 

[Momo]

I think the PSP is dead on arrival

No, it wasnt.

 

[linsivvi]

I do agree that the iOS devices are going to have a greater and greater impact on the gaming market, but to say that DS are cracking, that the handheld market in trouble is a massive over step.

He's just way off here.

Agreed. And it's not like Nintendo is the one being threatened the most by Apple. There's only one platform where you can play Pokemon and Mario Kart.

The ones who are being hurt the most are the traditional developers. Who's going to be able to make a profit selling $10 games that have development cost above PS2 game levels?

But it's Pacher, he just keeps throwing shit out until something sticks.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Big woody?

Oh by the way is the Kitton making sense in this thread or is it just me?