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[Psychotext]

Just posted these in the EU hardware sales thread:

September 2008 - UK LTD
PS3 - 1.4m
360 - 2.3m
Wii - 3.6m

PSP - 2.9m
DS - 7.1m (!)

Year ending September 2008 - UK
PS3 - 1.0m
360 - 1.0m
Wii - 2.5m

PSP - 0.7m
DS - 3.3m (!)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/console-installed-base-almost-doubles-in-uk

You forgot the handhelds too!

Pah, handhelds.

(edited)

 

[test_account]

Those don't work the same way because another platform is involved.

You can take everything else out of the equation though. Assume each game sold 100k across all platforms.

Mercs - 60,000 on 360. 33,000 on PS3 (65% / 35% - 30% difference).
Star Wars - 48,000 on 360. 30,000 on PS3 (62% / 38% - 24% difference).
Tiger Woods - 33,000 on 360. 32,000 on PS3 (51% / 49% - 2% difference).

Doesn't change much, but I'm a stats pedant. :lol

Ye, it is true that they dont work the exact same way since those games does indeed excist on other platforms, but i only listed those precentage mostly to show the difference between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 version of the games. It does show that the numbers of copies sold (atleast percentage wise) between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 version of the games variates depending on which game it is.

Lets say a multiplatform game comes out for the PS3, the Xbox 360 and the Wii and this game sold pretty much the same on each platform, which would be about 33% for each platform. Just to take some hypotecical numbers, you might say that if it wasnt for the Wii version, that like 25% of the Wii share would have been "converted" into Xbox 360 sales instead, and 8% would have been "converted" to PS3 sales, if you know what i mean? But unfortunately this is impossible to know.

But ye, it might give you a better picture of the Xbox 360 VS the PS3 version of a multiplatform game if the games only come out for the Xbox 360 and the PS3. So the precentage i listed earlier might not be a too good comparison, unfortunately :\

I wish we had some solid numbers more often, and not just the monthly ELSPA awards with 100k, 200k, 300k etc. LTDs. Then i think it would be more easy to show how the sales of a multiplatform game is divided between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 version of the game(s)

Yer your right it does seem it is on a game by game basis.

Point of order though if the 360 sells 66% and PS3 34% then in fact the 360 has sold 100% more units that the PS3 or double the amount, not 32% different, but yer I know what you meant.

Ye, that is true, it would be 100% in that example that you mention here, i didnt think of that

 

[Accident]

 

[Psychotext]

Cool graph.

 

[Sadist]

What made the UK go gaga about games?

 

[Accident]

What made the UK go gaga about games?

The waggle?

 

[Raist]

Denmark :
TOP 20 ENTERTAINMENT SOFTWARE (ALL PRICES) - Week 39, 2008

01 (01) Warhammer Online: Age Of Reckoning (Electronic Arts)
02 (02) Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision Blizzard)
03 (03) Spore (Electronic Arts)
04 (17) Wii Fit (Nintendo)
05 (04) The Sims 2: Apartment Life (Electronic Arts)
06 (06) Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock (Activision Blizzard)
07 (__) Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway (Ubisoft)
08 (08) Buzz! The Sports Quiz (Nordisk Film)
09 (05) Wall-E (THQ)
10 (07) FIFA 08 (Electronic Arts)
11 (18) Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (Nordisk Film)
12 (11) Lego Indiana Jones: Original Adventures (Activision Blizzard)
13 (10) Need For Speed: Prostreet (Electronic Arts)
14 (13) Crysis Warhead (Electronic Arts)
15 (12) Counter-strike: Source (Electronic Arts)
16 (15) Grand Theft Auto Iv (K.e. Media)
17 (__) Guitar Hero: Aerosmith (Activision Blizzard)
18 (20) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (K.e. Media)
19 (__) Counter-strike 1: Anthology (Electronic Arts)
20 (__) Pixeline: Matematik 2 (Krea Medie)

 

[Mgoblue201]

(Carried over from the other thread...sorry everyone)

Yes you do just say so because without conclusive data you can't prove me wrong. I've presented a logical arguement and you have failed to disprove it. I said there was factual data to back up what i said, i never said it was conclusive tho because if you'd actually bothered reading my previous posts you would see that i have said countless times that there is no conclusive data at all either way. It's a fact that most of the time nintendo products get the biggest boost from christmas holiday sales and seeing as tho kids are the biggest driving force behind sales at christmas that could be interpreted to support what i have said. If you want to, you could spin that data and interprete it in a different way like you have but that doesn't conclusively prove me wrong. You keep trying to say what i say is illogical, however you are yet to argue my main points:

1. Nintendo products are very popular with kids. (if this is wrong then please prove it)

2. In the era of the gamecube and ps2, the gamecube had a bigger % of it's userbase that was made up of kids. (if this is wrong then please prove it)

3. Is it or is it not logical, and most likely that in this current generation the wii has more kids that own the system then there are kids that own a ps3, because the wii is just as popular with kids as the gamecube was, as well as the wii has a bigger userbase then the gamecube did and at the same time the ps3 has a far smaller userbase then the ps2 did and the ps3 is significantly more expensive then the ps2 so most kids can't afford one. (if this is illogical then please prove it)

4. During school holidays it's is logical that kids have more free time to play games. (if this is illogical then please prove it)

5. So when nintendo has a history being the most popular with kids, when it is most logical that right now the wii has more kids that own one then there are kids who own a ps3 and when during the school holidays it is most logical that kids have the most free time to play games, please explain why it is most likely that the wii will not get the biggest boost from holiday sales.

The entire reason burden of proof exists is so that people don't make false claims about reality. You can't really prove a negative, at least unequivocally, so the burden of proof does not lie there. But by proving a positive, it dispels the negative. No matter what I do, you're the one who has to prove the argument. Now you claim that I spin the data when your entire argument is based around assumptions and spin. That's almost all you can do when you don't have any real facts. The only question is: which spin makes more sense?

Some of your post is filled with bullshit anyway. I don't have to explain why the Wii will not get the biggest boost during the holidays because it didn't get the biggest boost during the holidays. If you say that it's because of hardware shipments, then it simply plays into my point. That right there reveals the simplicity of your argument. It's easy to say, "Nintendo products always get big holiday bumps," but it ignores the intricacies of the issue. The Wii hasn't seen a bigger bump. The DS and PSP have seen about the same bumps for the last two holidays. You're talking about three out of four years for the GC, one of which is obfuscated by a price drop, so you're essentially talking about two years. That limits the argument dramatically.

And then the rest of your arguments rely on assumptions. "Kids get the most gifts during the holidays" might sound like a common sense line, but then again people think that flying is very unsafe because it looks really scary. That seems like common sense, but the facts tell a different story. There are two factors here: the percentage of kids who own a Gamecube and the percentage of kids who receive videogames for Christmas. It might seem like common sense when you boil it down to talking points, but we're talking about the difference of hundreds of thousands of consoles, and we'd need big numbers in order to make up that difference. It might instead be truthful that the number of kids really isn't enough and that these bumps are attributed to other factors. I'm saying that sales are a complicated thing and that a million people might buy a system for a million different reasons and that these reasons should be taken into consideration: even if there is a correlation here, it really might not be enough to account for the difference. Your arguments haven't even considered other possibilities. And until you get off your talking points and rule these other possibilities out, there is nothing logical about your argument. Your entire response to my theory is that I can't prove you wrong. The entire point of positing my theory was to weaken your logic. You then want me to...uhhh...weaken your logic, except I have to abide by your rules. But that won't work when your rules don't make sense to begin with.

Of course your argument could be right. It's more likely though that it falls apart upon a closer inspection.

 

[nli10]

Those don't work the same way because another platform is involved.

You can take everything else out of the equation though. Assume each game sold 100k across all platforms.

Mercs - 60,000 on 360. 33,000 on PS3 (65% / 35% - 30% difference).
Star Wars - 48,000 on 360. 30,000 on PS3 (62% / 38% - 24% difference).
Tiger Woods - 33,000 on 360. 32,000 on PS3 (51% / 49% - 2% difference).

Doesn't change much, but I'm a stats pedant. :lol

I completely agree - the game I chose was a PS3 X360 only game but I still chose to express the sales as a ratio 65:35 for accuracy. Essentially though It's just a different way of laying out what you explained much better above.

Analytical Methods Discussion >> Schools out Discussion

(PS - there is a reason that the X360 sales announcements recently track it to PS3 and not Wii - Wii is selling almost double the 360 without a price drop locally. And this is MORE than during the summer...)

 

[doicare]

(Carried over from the other thread...sorry everyone)


The entire reason burden of proof exists is so that people don't make false claims about reality. You can't really prove a negative, at least unequivocally, so the burden of proof does not lie there. But by proving a positive, it dispels the negative. No matter what I do, you're the one who has to prove the argument. Now you claim that I spin the data when your entire argument is based around assumptions and spin. That's almost all you can do when you don't have any real facts. The only question is: which spin makes more sense?

Some of your post is filled with bullshit anyway. I don't have to explain why the Wii will not get the biggest boost during the holidays because it didn't get the biggest boost during the holidays. If you say that it's because of hardware shipments, then it simply plays into my point. That right there reveals the simplicity of your argument. It's easy to say, "Nintendo products always get big holiday bumps," but it ignores the intricacies of the issue. The Wii hasn't seen a bigger bump. The DS and PSP have seen about the same bumps for the last two holidays. You're talking about three out of four years for the GC, one of which is obfuscated by a price drop, so you're essentially talking about two years. That limits the argument dramatically.

And then the rest of your arguments rely on assumptions. "Kids get the most gifts during the holidays" might sound like a common sense line, but then again people think that flying is very unsafe because it looks really scary. That seems like common sense, but the facts tell a different story. There are two factors here: the percentage of kids who own a Gamecube and the percentage of kids who receive videogames for Christmas. It might seem like common sense when you boil it down to talking points, but we're talking about the difference of hundreds of thousands of consoles, and we'd need big numbers in order to make up that difference. It might instead be truthful that the number of kids really isn't enough and that these bumps are attributed to other factors. I'm saying that sales are a complicated thing and that a million people might buy a system for a million different reasons and that these reasons should be taken into consideration: even if there is a correlation here, it really might not be enough to account for the difference. Your arguments haven't even considered other possibilities. And until you get off your talking points and rule these other possibilities out, there is nothing logical about your argument. Your entire response to my theory is that I can't prove you wrong. The entire point of positing my theory was to weaken your logic. You then want me to...uhhh...weaken your logic, except I have to abide by your rules. But that won't work when your rules don't make sense to begin with.

Of course your argument could be right. It's more likely though that it falls apart upon a closer inspection.

:lol :lol I don't know what to laugh at more, the fact that you've dragged up an old post that you couldn't let go and replied to it using this thread (which i'm sure will delight the readers of pal threads) or the fact you just wasted several paragraphs talking semantics, refused to answer any of my points, were unable to post any proof because you have none and claimed my post was 'filled with bullshit' and 'spin' when by your own standards if my post was 'filled' with those things then so is yours. My theory is based on common sense and logic and you have failed to sucessfully argue any of those points, you critasize my lack of conclusive proof when you have none yourself and refuse to accept any of the 'inconclusive' proof whilst offering nothing better yourself. And just to top it off with your lack of any proof what so ever you decide to come up with the audacious conclusion that my theory will most likely 'fall apart upon closer inspection'. Good job sir, good job.

 

[DNF]

To Mgoblue201:

Please don't try to respond to doicare with common sense or logic.
(or even better, don respond at all).
I did the same mistake (responding to him) until a few weeks ago.
Try do what other posters already said, try to ignore him or put him on ignore.
I would really apreciate it if these PAL-Charts threads would be like several weeks (or maybe months ?) ago.

There was
the charts (obviously)
some questions from gaffers
some (nice) answers from gaffers
and some logic statements or predictions.
The threads were only 1 or 2 pages long, but it was nice to read.

Now there is
half of the posts is doicare giving unlogical, false, speculative, wrong or even-has-absolutely-nothing-to-do-with-anything-that-was-written-in-this-threads statements
and people responding to him with logic or common sense.

I admit i made the same failure but this my last post regarding anything about doicare.

Now if you read his post and maybe you think "that doesn't make so much sense" or "his statement A has absolutely nothing to do with his statement B", try to resist to answer. Probably most (atleast more than 50% of readers) think the same way you or others respond to him.
But there is no way to have a normal discussion with him.

He makes a (what a would call it) "wrong" statement, then somebody respond with a "logical" statement (where some others would think: "Yeah this is right, doicare has just proven to be wrong) but doicare will just say: "Hooray, that is just another argument that prooves my point"

Or he makes wild predictions which he claims to be facts, others will say that's not right prove it and he will just say: "Now you must prove it, i am right"

 

[Mgoblue201]

Can't you read between the lines? I am answering your points. By questioning the entire "Nintendo products get a boost during the holidays" rhetoric, your entire argument falls apart. Because if they don't really get a boost a good deal of the time or there are other factors, then obviously they're not receiving a boost from children. The question is: are you going to answer it? Are you going to respond to my points about a lack of Wii boost, DS vs. PSP, or the explanation of the supposed boosts during the GC life cycle? Are you going to say why this supposed "logic" and "common sense" are enough to link children to boosts during the holidays above other factors? I don't need to respond to all of your points because these things easily cast doubt on your entire methodology. Semantics? Bullshit. These arguments utterly destroy it. What you have failed to do is respond to any of these. Apparently it's easier to ignore them than respond to them because I have gone over them constantly and have never received a reply. You'll respond when you think you can poke holes in my theory. Sure you'll point out that the PS2 beat the GC one Christmas in percentage increase when you think that I said the GC would always beat the PS2. But when I explained the nuance of my argument, you dropped it. When I pointed out the Wii fact (yes, I'm using facts), you don't respond. Isn't that convenient?

I also didn't get to the previous post until now, and I'm not going to bump up an old thread when there are newer PAL threads. I can't let bullshit go.

 

[Mgoblue201]

To Mgoblue201:

I know when it's time to bail out of a bad argument, but I usually soldier on. Half the battle of an argument is finding the correct ground rules - doicare has violated just about all of them. Is it exasperating? A little. But I don't think it's a mistake. In fact, it just makes me try harder to refine things down to the most basic elements of a discussion, which also has its value. I do hope these PAL threads won't be polluted for much longer, however.

 

[BishopLamont]

*graph*

Awesome graph.

 

[Hammer24]

I do hope these PAL threads won't be polluted for much longer, however.

Do as you like - but please don´t quote him anymore. This renders the ignore function useless for the others.

 

[Rolf NB]

Now there is
half of the posts is doicare giving unlogical, false, speculative, wrong or even-has-absolutely-nothing-to-do-with-anything-that-was-written-in-this-threads statements
and people responding to him with logic or common sense.

All I see are a bunch of whiny bitches struggling against a perceived insult to the Wii. There's a correlation between two sets of data. It has been pointed out, and an explanation for it has been offered. That's all that really happened, but somehow you guys felt offended and started flailing your arms around.

I own a Wii, too, you know, and have spend shitloads of money on Wii software. But that doesn't mean I have to feel personally threatened by a simple explanation for what just might be a cause for the quite visible changes in the relative slice of the UK market taken by Wii software.

You're positioning yourself among those that say this correlation must be a coincidence and can't possibly be explained, especially not in the proposed way. Great. You have to realize though that your position figures much less than the one you're criticizing.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't get it either.

Wii has a higher ratio of family households to adult only households, compared to the other two consoles.
No shit.

 

[doicare]

Snip

This is what gets me, if what i am saying is sooo completely and utterly wrong, if i am so 'stupid' and don't have a clue about sales then somebody should have absolutely no problem in posting conclusive proof that i am wrong and nor would i be top of the neo gaf sales prediction league if i didn't have a clue about sales. But the fact is nobody has proved me wrong but posters like you pretend i have been and just talk sh*t about me, which is a really sad state of affairs.

Can't you read between the lines? I am answering your points. By questioning the entire "Nintendo products get a boost during the holidays" rhetoric, your entire argument falls apart. Because if they don't really get a boost a good deal of the time or there are other factors, then obviously they're not receiving a boost from children. The question is: are you going to answer it? Are you going to respond to my points about a lack of Wii boost, DS vs. PSP, or the explanation of the supposed boosts during the GC life cycle? Are you going to say why this supposed "logic" and "common sense" are enough to link children to boosts during the holidays above other factors? I don't need to respond to all of your points because these things easily cast doubt on your entire methodology. Semantics? Bullshit. These arguments utterly destroy it. What you have failed to do is respond to any of these. Apparently it's easier to ignore them than respond to them because I have gone over them constantly and have never received a reply. You'll respond when you think you can poke holes in my theory. Sure you'll point out that the PS2 beat the GC one Christmas in percentage increase when you think that I said the GC would always beat the PS2. But when I explained the nuance of my argument, you dropped it. When I pointed out the Wii fact (yes, I'm using facts), you don't respond. Isn't that convenient?

I also didn't get to the previous post until now, and I'm not going to bump up an old thread when there are newer PAL threads. I can't let bullshit go.

O dear lets try again. I have clearly labeled the points i have made that lead to the logical conclusion that during the school holidays kids give nintendo products the biggest boost. The points i made are labeled 1-5 and you have failed to answer any of them. Instead you have chosen to argue a supporting piece of data i gave which can be interpreted to support what i say. I have said countless times that this data is in no way conclusive yet you treat it like it is the main point of my theory, when in fact it is just a minor side note. Even tho it is just a minor piece of supporting evidence you have failed to prove it wrong. For starters you keep going on about there being other factors that affect sales other than the kids as if i have said kids are the only thing that affect holiday sales, but i have never said that. There are other factors that affect holiday sales but that doesn't change the fact that kids influencing holiday sales is still a factor. Then you go on about the wii not getting the biggest boost last year when the fact is the wii was heaverly supply constrained which makes your point totally invalid. Next you say that last year the ds and psp had the same % holiday increase but you are completely and utterly wrong. The ds and psp's 2007 npd sales were:

ds - non holiday average 443,000/ holiday average 2,000,000 = 352% increase
psp - non holiday average 220,000/ holiday average 814,000 = 270% increase

The ds's holiday boost was significantly bigger than the psp's which destroys your arguement, but i'm sure you'll just ignore that fact and move onto something else like you have countless times already. I'm getting sick and tired of saying it but you are yet to prove me wrong.

 

[nli10]

...But the fact is nobody has proved me wrong ...

You predicted that Warhammer online would be number one in the UK.
Force unleashed was numbers one and 2, WiiFit was 3 and MarioKart was 4 - the game you predicted to be number 1 was number 5.
This makes you incorrect does it not?

I've never joined in the Wii holidays argument because it's pointless as we don't have public UK sales data , but you do not have a flawless prediction record like you seem to claim above, and predicting USA markets in a league I never visit (or proving trends with USA numbers) is not equivalent to experience of the UK retail market (or UK numbers).

 

[doicare]

You predicted that Warhammer online would be number one in the UK.
Force unleashed was numbers one and 2, WiiFit was 3 and MarioKart was 4 - the game you predicted to be number 1 was number 5.
This makes you incorrect does it not?

I've never joined in the Wii holidays argument because it's pointless as we don't have public UK sales data , but you do not have a flawless prediction record like you seem to claim above, and predicting USA markets in a league I never visit (or proving trends with USA numbers) is not equivalent to experience of the UK retail market (or UK numbers).

:lol Nobody has proved me wrong about kids being on holiday boosting sales, not about the odd prediction i made of which i get the vast majority right btw. Nice try tho.

 

[dabra]

Germany
week 39, 2008


01 (01) [PS3] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
02 (04) [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
03 (05) [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
04 (03) [WII] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
05 (06) [PS2] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
06 (02) [360] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
07 (07) [NDS] Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training (Nintendo)
08 (08) [PS3] Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty (Sony)
09 (09) [NDS] More Brain Training from Dr. Kawashima (Nintendo)
10 (__) [PS3] NHL 09 (Electronic Arts)

Australia
week 39, 2008

01 (03) [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
02 (06) [WII] Wii Play (Nintendo)
03 (02) [PS3] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
04 (01) [360] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
05 (__) [PS2] Singstar Hottest Hits (Sony)
06 (07) [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
07 (05) [WII] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
08 (08) [PS2] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
09 (10) [PS2] Wall-E (THQ)
10 (04) [PC] Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning (Electronic Arts)

 

[Nocebo]

:lol Nobody has proved me wrong about kids being on holiday boosting sales, not about the odd prediction i made of which i get the vast majority right btw. Nice try tho.

No, people on holiday boost sales.

 

[doicare]

No, people on holiday boost sales.

Yes all those people that get the entire summer holiday off boost sales, it cannot possibly be the kids so it must be the teachers, you heard it here first teachers boost wii sales during the school holidays. Awesome :lol

 

[Mgoblue201]

This isn't about proving you wrong. It's about attenuating your methodology. If you would get what I'm saying, I don't disagree that a lot of children play Nintendo consoles. I'm questioning how you use the figures and arrive at your point because you don't have sound methods that really make any sense.

You say that the supply constrained Wii invalidates my point, but I really don't think that you get what I'm arguing. That's been part of my point all along. How can you compare these systems when there are other factors like supply constraints? When you take out the launch year, you're only dealing with about four years, and consoles are usually in different arcs of their lifetimes and subjected to different factors. Your entire argument is essentially a non argument. Saying that kids buying Nintendo products during the holidays is a factor is like saying rainfall is a factor in the erosion of my house. It's kind of like those obvious "Well...yeah" kind of things. Not that it's necessarily correct, but if it is correct, does that really mean anything by itself?

If it is true, then it doesn't really tell you anything. I mean are you going to wave your hands in triumph if it turns out that one hundred more kids receive a Wii for Christmas than a 360? That's statistically unimportant. The thing that matters is "how much?" If you're not going to position yourself on that issue, then why the hell are we having this discussion? I'm not concerned with mere guesswork and possibilities. But if you are going to use numbers, then you're make a point to say that it clearly does effect the numbers, and so the numbers themselves need a context, which you're not really giving them. And that's where I have the issue. Your methodology sucks. You're looking at the numbers and using them to try to prove something which may or may not really have an effect, and it's so simple of a methodology that it doesn't really prove anything. But no, if you expect me to prove you wrong, there's no way I can live up to that metric, nor am I even trying.

I also have an issue with the way you present the numbers. Most of November should not count for the holidays since Christmas shopping doesn't really begin until after Thanksgiving. Last year November had three weeks pre Thanksgiving and one week post. Throwing all of November in there doesn't really work. Of course, I was looking at the numbers as December vs. the rest of the year, and that isn't quite true either since November shouldn't be counted as the rest of the year. However, by your very own methodology, the PS3 had an even bigger increase than the DS did of nearly five times. Its "holidays" accounted for a full half of its sales. Of course, no one is going to chalk that up to the children. If you say that the PS3 was going through a natural surge, then the same logic could be applied to the DS: the portable is beating last year's rate by 100k. Which just proves my point that there are other factors involved here that makes this entire discussion pointless until we look at those factors.

 

[830920]

Swedish charts week 39, 2008.

MULTIFORMAT
01. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning (PC)
02. NHL 09 (PS3)
03. Spore (PC)
04. NHL 09 (360)
05. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (360)
06. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (PS3)
07. Brothers in Arms 3 Hells Highway (360)
08. The Sims 2 Livet i lägenhet (PC)
09. Crysis Warhead (PC)
10. Wii Fit (Wii)
11. Counter-Strike 1: Anthology (PC)
12. World of Warcraft Battlechest (PC)
13. Rock Band (PS3)
14. Brothers In Arms 3 Hells Highway (PS3)
15. Rock Band (PS2)
16. World of Warcraft (PC)
17. Singstar Svenska hits Schlager (PS2)
18. Rock Band (Wii)
19. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (PS2)
20. Mario Kart Wii (Wii)

PC
01. Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning
02. Spore
03. The Sims 2 Livet i lägenhet (Apartment Life or whatever it's called in English)
04. Crysis Warhead
05. Counter-Strike 1: Anthology
06. World of Warcraft Battlechest
07. World of Warcraft
08. World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
09. The Sims 2
10. Counter-Strike Source

PLAYSTATION 2
01. Rock Band
02. Singstar Svenska hits Schlager
03. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock
04. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
05. Guitar Hero Aerosmith
06. Singstar Svenska hits
07. Buzz: The Mega Quiz
08. GTA San Andreas
09. Lego Star Wars: The Video Game
10. Lego: Indiana Jones the Original Adventures

PLAYSTATION 3
01. NHL 09
02. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
03. Rock Band
04. Brothers In Arms 3 Hells Highway
05. Buzz! Quiz TV
06. Ratchet & Clank Quest for booty
07. Assassins Creed
08. GTA 4
09. Haze
10. Pure

XBOX 360
01. NHL 09
02. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
03. Brothers in Arms 3 Hells Highway
04. Pure
05. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock
06. GTA 4
07. Guitar Hero Aerosmith
08. Rock Band
09. Project Gotham Racing 4
10. Assassins Creed

Wii
01. Wii Fit
02. Rock Band
03. Mario Kart Wii
04. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
05. Super Smash Bros Brawl
06. Wii Play
07. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock
08. Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
09. Guitar Hero Aerosmith
10. Super Mario Galaxy

NINTENDO DS
01. New Super Mario Bros
02. Guitar Hero: On Tour
03. Lego: Indiana Jones the Original Adventures
04. Mario Kart DS
05. Spore Creatures
06. Råttatouille
07. Pokémon Diamond
08. Final Fantasy IV
09. The Sims 2 Apartment Pets
10. WALL-E

SONY PSP
01. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
02. Buzz Master Quiz
03. Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
04. GTA Vice City Stories
05. Secret Agent Clank
06. Tekken Dark Resurrection
07. GTA Liberty City Stories
08. Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core
09. Daxter
10. FIFA 08

N-GAGE (oh dear)
01. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
02. World Series of Poker Pro Challenge
03. Tetris
04. Pro Series Golf
05. Asphalt 3 Street Rules
06. Block Breaker Deluxe
07. Bounce Boing Voyage
08. Dirk Dagger and the Fallen Idol
09. FIFA 08
10. Reset Generation

 

[Raist]

New Zealand :
Week 39, 2008

01 (02) [PS3] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
02 (01) [360] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
03 (05) [PS2] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts)
04 (06) [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
05 (03) [PC] Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning (Electronic Arts)
06 (04) [PC] Spore (Electronic Arts)
07 (07) [WII] Wii Play (Nintendo)
08 (__) [PC] Crysis Warhead (Electronic Arts)
09 (08) [PS2] Rugby 2008 (Electronic Arts)
10 (09) [NDS] Dr. KAwashima's Brain Training (Nintendo)

 

[Feral Youth]

Probably new users jumping in thanks to the pricedrop.

Coupled with the fact that Students have there student loan through aroundabout now.


*looks up*


I see the Swedish folks have the best taste in Europe then.

 

[doicare]

This isn't about proving you wrong. It's about attenuating your methodology. If you would get what I'm saying, I don't disagree that a lot of children play Nintendo consoles. I'm questioning how you use the figures and arrive at your point because you don't have sound methods that really make any sense.

You say that the supply constrained Wii invalidates my point, but I really don't think that you get what I'm arguing. That's been part of my point all along. How can you compare these systems when there are other factors like supply constraints? When you take out the launch year, you're only dealing with about four years, and consoles are usually in different arcs of their lifetimes and subjected to different factors. Your entire argument is essentially a non argument. Saying that kids buying Nintendo products during the holidays is a factor is like saying rainfall is a factor in the erosion of my house. It's kind of like those obvious "Well...yeah" kind of things. Not that it's necessarily correct, but if it is correct, does that really mean anything by itself?

If it is true, then it doesn't really tell you anything. I mean are you going to wave your hands in triumph if it turns out that one hundred more kids receive a Wii for Christmas than a 360? That's statistically unimportant. The thing that matters is "how much?" If you're not going to position yourself on that issue, then why the hell are we having this discussion? I'm not concerned with mere guesswork and possibilities. But if you are going to use numbers, then you're make a point to say that it clearly does effect the numbers, and so the numbers themselves need a context, which you're not really giving them. And that's where I have the issue. Your methodology sucks. You're looking at the numbers and using them to try to prove something which may or may not really have an effect, and it's so simple of a methodology that it doesn't really prove anything. But no, if you expect me to prove you wrong, there's no way I can live up to that metric, nor am I even trying.

I also have an issue with the way you present the numbers. Most of November should not count for the holidays since Christmas shopping doesn't really begin until after Thanksgiving. Last year November had three weeks pre Thanksgiving and one week post. Throwing all of November in there doesn't really work. Of course, I was looking at the numbers as December vs. the rest of the year, and that isn't quite true either since November shouldn't be counted as the rest of the year. However, by your very own methodology, the PS3 had an even bigger increase than the DS did of nearly five times. Its "holidays" accounted for a full half of its sales. Of course, no one is going to chalk that up to the children. If you say that the PS3 was going through a natural surge, then the same logic could be applied to the DS: the portable is beating last year's rate by 100k. Which just proves my point that there are other factors involved here that makes this entire discussion pointless until we look at those factors.

:lol :lol :lol For the love of christ.....yet again you have failed to answer the 5 points i have clearly labeled 1-5 which is the logic and common sense that my theory is based on. Yet again when i have proved you wrong on several points you have just dropped them and tried to pretend they never happened and yet again you keep going on about the numbers which i used but they are only a minor piece of supporting evidence yet you treat them like they are the center piece of my entire arguement and most importantly i have already said the numbers are inconclusive but you act as if i've said they are conclusive and waste paragraph after paragraph talking about how inconclusive they are when i have already stated they are inconclusive. :lol

I totally understand what you are saying but you fail to understand what i am saying. I've lost count of the amount of times i have said this but there are many factors that determine sales and just because there are other factors doesn't change the fact that kids influencing christmas sales is still a factor. You then go on about how november sales shouldn't count which just shows how little you know about sales when christmas shopping starts in november which is clearly shown by a huge increase in sales compared to january-octobers sales. Next you talk about ps3 and how it had a bigger boost than the ds when the reason that happened is the ps3 had a price drop at the end of the year which again invalidates your point.

I can only hope this has sunk into your head, my point is not based just on numbers, it is mainly based on the 5 points of common sense and logical which i have clearly labeled for you. The numbers i posted are just minor supporting peices of evidence which i have said can be interpreted to back up what i have said and are in no way conclusive. You are arguing what i have already said so you have no point.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Jesus Christ, because I'm not saying that the claim is necessarily wrong. Here, look, let me try this again. If you're simply going to say that it's a factor, then this argument is worthless because the factor could be insignificant. It's not really much of a claim. It's almost like saying car crashes are caused by people being distracted by UFOs. There could be one, a hundred, a thousand. The claim doesn't tell you anything on its own, and until it's proven, it's merely a hypothesis. Why would I try to disprove your logic when I don't necessarily have a problem with it? I don't care about the logic alone. Because if you cannot prove that the numbers are significant, then it's unproven, and to me a lack of a positive is as good as a negative. In reality it's neutral, and neutral things by nature shouldn't be assertive. This argument has gotten way too assertive to be about a simple unproven claim. And you were using numbers, so you seem to be saying that the factor is significant. Look, just make a point either way. Either you can't prove it's significant and it's merely a hypothesis to be considered, or the factor is significant and the numbers bare a greater look.

I also never said that November should be discounted. I said that November simply cannot be lumped in with December. How can you take the numbers cold when at the very least 3/4 of the month cannot be considered the holidays? This year only about two days are post Thanksgiving. What I am saying is that post Thanksgiving numbers are necessary in order to have a true look at the numbers and what they mean.

PS3: So you'll rise to the aid of the PS3 over a price drop when the GC had a price drop that you never once mentioned as you brought up the numbers? I am willing to concede that I was wrong about the PSP vs. DS. I approached the numbers in the wrong light. However, I think you were wrong about the Wii. Even if you increase its December to two million, a very good number for a first Christmas outside of launch during a largely shortage laden year, the 360 still would have had a slightly bigger increase. My entire point in bringing up the PS3 is to say there can be surges throughout the console cycle. The reason is somewhat irrelevant. The DS had one such surge in the release of the Lite. From that moment it truly began to crush the PSP. Every year the system picks up steam, and a lot of that is carried over from the Christmas before. I don't have proof that Christmas ties into that, but I think it's interesting that year on year the DS consistently increases in rate, and you can usually pinpoint the exact month where that began.

Anyway, we can innumerate any number of reasons. But if we are to discuss different reasons, it does tend to overshadow your one claim because of the various factors. If you want to discuss that, then truly discuss it. Don't retreat to your one claim and wall yourself off from everything else. You can do that, but don't pretend like I'm attacking that. And your constant cries of "you don't get it" show that you don't get it because you don't seem to understand that I'm not attacking those points. You want me to attack those points, and you seem to act like I am and that it's a failure when I don't, but that's not the case. You're responding to an invisible strawman. What I am doing is questioning your methodology. You're going on an awful lot about something that even you say you cannot prove and apparently pissing off a lot of people in the process for what amounts to a hypothesis without proof. And you're sort of positing proof for it, but you're not really arguing it all of the way or offering a true rebuttal, and so you retreat to that singular point and ask me to disprove you when the one making the claim carries the burden of proof. I'm not making any counter claim that necessarily interrupts your claim. I don't shoulder any burden except on the grounds that I want it. This has been my point from the beginning as I pointed out in the other thread.

For the record, I do think that there was a greater percentage of children playing the GC, but I don't think it was a significant factor during the holidays, and I think that the age range for the Wii is so great that there actually might be a huge amount of older adults playing the system compared to the other consoles.

 

[Copycat_Wannabe]

In the US kids and teens are only 25% of the market, i don't know what it's like in the UK though.

 

[VerTiGo]

I have a good feeling that the Wii version of Force Unleashed might sell the most in the long run. Star Wars games always do well on Nintendo platforms and the fact that the Wii-mote has been used amazingly well for that game just adds to it all. This game will have legs.... Oh, and before I forget... third-party games sell on Wii. There's plenty of hater ownage in on Euro charts to prove that to the haters.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

jesus Christ, its obvious that the Wii benefits from School holidays more than the other consoles, the 360 and Ps3 are both aimed at the 18-35 year old bracket, the wii is aimed at all ages!

My GF is a teacher and she says all the kids go on about Wii's isn't it any wonder their parents buy them a couple of games to get them to shut up during the holiday?!!

 

[BishopLamont]

jesus Christ, its obvious that the Wii benefits from School holidays more than the other consoles, the 360 and Ps3 are both aimed at the 18-35 year old bracket, the wii is aimed at all ages!

My GF is a teacher and she says all the kids go on about Wii's isn't it any wonder their parents buy them a couple of games to get them to shut up during the holiday?!!

So obvious that a certain somehow has to mention it every "school holiday". :lol

 

[Sleeker]

Strange seeing Halo 3 in the charts again and Too Human still in there.
I thought it would have dropped off after a fortnight

 

[dk_]

Germany
week 39, 2008


01 (01) [PS3] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
02 (04) [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
03 (05) [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo)
04 (03) [WII] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
05 (06) [PS2] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
06 (02) [360] Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (Activision)
07 (07) [NDS] Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training (Nintendo)
08 (08) [PS3] Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty (Sony)
09 (09) [NDS] More Brain Training from Dr. Kawashima (Nintendo)
10 (__) [PS3] NHL 09 (Electronic Arts)

The PS3 is getting its shit together in Germany it seems. I'm suprised the 360 version of SWTFU is behind the Wii version.

 

[doicare]

Jesus Christ, because I'm not saying that the claim is necessarily wrong. Here, look, let me try this again. If you're simply going to say that it's a factor, then this argument is worthless because the factor could be insignificant. It's not really much of a claim. It's almost like saying car crashes are caused by people being distracted by UFOs. There could be one, a hundred, a thousand. The claim doesn't tell you anything on its own, and until it's proven, it's merely a hypothesis. Why would I try to disprove your logic when I don't necessarily have a problem with it? I don't care about the logic alone. Because if you cannot prove that the numbers are significant, then it's unproven, and to me a lack of a positive is as good as a negative. In reality it's neutral, and neutral things by nature shouldn't be assertive. This argument has gotten way too assertive to be about a simple unproven claim. And you were using numbers, so you seem to be saying that the factor is significant. Look, just make a point either way. Either you can't prove it's significant and it's merely a hypothesis to be considered, or the factor is significant and the numbers bare a greater look.

I also never said that November should be discounted. I said that November simply cannot be lumped in with December. How can you take the numbers cold when at the very least 3/4 of the month cannot be considered the holidays? This year only about two days are post Thanksgiving. What I am saying is that post Thanksgiving numbers are necessary in order to have a true look at the numbers and what they mean.

PS3: So you'll rise to the aid of the PS3 over a price drop when the GC had a price drop that you never once mentioned as you brought up the numbers? I am willing to concede that I was wrong about the PSP vs. DS. I approached the numbers in the wrong light. However, I think you were wrong about the Wii. Even if you increase its December to two million, a very good number for a first Christmas outside of launch during a largely shortage laden year, the 360 still would have had a slightly bigger increase. My entire point in bringing up the PS3 is to say there can be surges throughout the console cycle. The reason is somewhat irrelevant. The DS had one such surge in the release of the Lite. From that moment it truly began to crush the PSP. Every year the system picks up steam, and a lot of that is carried over from the Christmas before. I don't have proof that Christmas ties into that, but I think it's interesting that year on year the DS consistently increases in rate, and you can usually pinpoint the exact month where that began.

Anyway, we can innumerate any number of reasons. But if we are to discuss different reasons, it does tend to overshadow your one claim because of the various factors. If you want to discuss that, then truly discuss it. Don't retreat to your one claim and wall yourself off from everything else. You can do that, but don't pretend like I'm attacking that. And your constant cries of "you don't get it" show that you don't get it because you don't seem to understand that I'm not attacking those points. You want me to attack those points, and you seem to act like I am and that it's a failure when I don't, but that's not the case. You're responding to an invisible strawman. What I am doing is questioning your methodology. You're going on an awful lot about something that even you say you cannot prove and apparently pissing off a lot of people in the process for what amounts to a hypothesis without proof. And you're sort of positing proof for it, but you're not really arguing it all of the way or offering a true rebuttal, and so you retreat to that singular point and ask me to disprove you when the one making the claim carries the burden of proof. I'm not making any counter claim that necessarily interrupts your claim. I don't shoulder any burden except on the grounds that I want it. This has been my point from the beginning as I pointed out in the other thread.

For the record, I do think that there was a greater percentage of children playing the GC, but I don't think it was a significant factor during the holidays, and I think that the age range for the Wii is so great that there actually might be a huge amount of older adults playing the system compared to the other consoles.

You still don't get it and the funniest thing is you keep saying i don't get when it's the other way round and then you waste paragraph after paragraph regurgitating the same points over and over again when i have already answered them. Kids boosting sales is something significant, common sense tells you that, if you want me to quantify it by a percentage then i can't because nobody knows the exact numbers for sure. You're desperately trying to down play the effect kids have on sales and you're coming up with stupid analogies about ufos and rain errotion that are so funny :lol. I've told you countless times what my theory is based on and listed the points for you, you are now saying that you don't disagree with my logic, but despite me also saying here are some numbers as well that can be interpreted to back up what i say but they are inconclusive, you keep replying with something along the lines of "a ha your numbers are inconclusive so you have no point", it's laughable the way you think when that is not the focal point of what i am saying at all.

Yes all of november's sales should be included with decembers sales because a large amount of christmas shopping happens in november and it all doesn't just take place after thanksgiving either as you seem to think.

As for the ps3 it was the only console to receive a price drop at the end of the year where as with the gamecube in 2003 not only did the gamecube get a price drop but so did the ps2 and xbox so that balances things out. But you've already decided to discount that year and as i've already said in previous posts i't doesn't matter because it still leaves 2 years of gamecube data and 1 year of ds data that can be interpreted to back up what i say verus zero years worth of data that contradicts what i say. Then you talk about the ds and 'surges' which makes no sense because the ds lite came out a year and a quater ago in the summer and a 'surge' in sales effects the entire year and not just christmas so the fact that the ds sold significantly higher then the psp over the holiday still backs up what i say and not what you seem to think.

The bottom line is i've posted my reasoning for why i think kids have a significant effect on sales (which you say you agree with), i have shown that in the uk on non holiday weeks on average the number of wii games that chart is lower then when the kids are on holiday, i have shown that on the uk weighted chart the week kids break up for school wii sales shoot up and the week they go back they shoot down to similar levels of what they were before the holiday started and i've posted 2 years worth of gamecube data and 1 years worth of ds data that show the gamecube and ds getting the biggest boost at christmas compared to the competition. I have clearly said the data i have posted is inconclusive because we would need a wider and more detailed range of data to come to a better conclusion, yet you keep doing on and on about the fact the data is inconclusive when i have already stated it is and you think that some how invalidates what i have said when you offer no data yourself that proves me wrong.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Strange seeing Halo 3 in the charts again and Too Human still in there.
I thought it would have dropped off after a fortnight

Halo is often used in bundles and the 360 has had a boost in sales, too human is £19.99 in most stores!


I'm interested in the Fifa split today, its being heavily advertised as a PS3 game on Tv and on euro websites, I reckon the PS3 might actually beat the 360 version in sales today..

 

[carlosp]

Halo is often used in bundles and the 360 has had a boost in sales, too human is £19.99 in most stores!


I'm interested in the Fifa split today, its being heavily advertised as a PS3 game on Tv and on euro websites, I reckon the PS3 might actually beat the 360 version in sales today..

there is also a non official FIFA PS3 bundle for 439 €

 

[Psychotext]

I'm interested in the Fifa split today, its being heavily advertised as a PS3 game on Tv and on euro websites, I reckon the PS3 might actually beat the 360 version in sales today..

PS3 version will beat 360 version in virtually every European country. Doubt it will in the UK though.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

PS3 version will beat 360 version in virtually every European country. Doubt it will in the UK though.

Yer sorry, meant UK, EA games tend to be a lot closer normally and I think the TV ads might push it over the edge... however the surge in 360 sales lately might have an effect as there were a few bundle deals on in game and gamestation with fifa on all the consoles..

 

[dk_]

PS3 version will beat 360 version in virtually every European country. Doubt it will in the UK though.

Well, I bought Fifa 09 for 360 because of XboxLive. I guess many will do that, too. Or is it possible to invite someone to a match through PSN?

 

[Psychotext]

however the surge in 360 sales lately might have an effect as there were a few bundle deals on in game and gamestation with fifa on all the consoles..

That was mostly my reasoning. Though having 1m more consoles sold in the UK probably doesn't harm either. :lol

 

[Sykra]

Well, I bought Fifa 09 for 360 because of XboxLive. I guess many will do that, too. Or is it possible to invite someone to a match through PSN?

In fifa u can invite ppl to matches.

 

[carlosp]

Well, I bought Fifa 09 for 360 because of XboxLive. I guess many will do that, too. Or is it possible to invite someone to a match through PSN?

well what is special about xbox live in fifa execpt the charging? I played about 1000 matchs already and never had a problem expect my opponent quit the match after 3:0 or 4:0.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

In fifa u can invite ppl to matches.

Not cross game though

 

[dk_]

well what is special about xbox live in fifa execpt the charging? I played about 1000 matchs already and never had a problem expect my opponent quit the match after 3:0 or 4:0.

In most PS3 games it's not possible to invite friends directly through PSN. If that changed then nevermind.

Not cross game though

Ok, a little advantage for Live, but it seems the PS3/360 version are on par.

 

[carlosp]

In most PS3 games it's not possible to invite friends directly through PSN. If that changed then nevermind.

You cannot invite your friends in GT since there is no possibility for private games yet but in almost all the other games you can (at least the ones i have played yet hehe ). Fifa has the privat lobbys which is a great feature as well. I used to use them a lot with friends.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I'll predict the FIFA split, aye?

60-30-the rest.

 

[dk_]

I'll predict the FIFA split, aye?

UK: 360
USA: 360
Remaining: PS3

 

[mr_bishiuk]

I'll predict the FIFA split, aye?

60-30-the rest.

I assume in the Uk (as we should get the split today)?

360S3:Rest

45:40:15