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[Platy]

I got different answers on this though as the person above said it was about mental state.

Plus it's not as if babies can survive on their own as it is. Though you could say babies can survive independently without a specific person though ie it needs someone to feed them but it doesn't specifically have to be whomever is carring the baby prebirth.

Talking about what constitutes life means that you are changing the subject to the important parte here : THE ALREADY ALIVE AND FULL GROWN PERSON CARRYING IT

There is no question whatever the person carrying the thing is alive or not. So what you have to ask yourself is "at what point a small thing that people arguee whatever is alive or not can hold more power over a full adult tax paying person"

You can deny a life saving transplant sending a person to death, you can stop feeding a person who can't feed themselves, you can do a shit load of stuff that will result in another person death simply because you want to play videogames instead so WHY NOT PEOPLE WHO HAVE UTERUS

And that is purely the ethical part ... let alone the social and economic issue about a fun loving american heterosexual couple who is studying with a full promising life ahead and used contraceptive methods perfectly but those methods are not 100% so now the plans they have for their life is now fucked and they will not have money to properly take care of the child. There fucked your life entirely. Who said you guys could have sex ?

 

[owasog]

You can be against abortion and be pro choice. Just don't get an abortion if you're against it, don't take the choice away from a woman who isn't against it. How hard is that to understand?

Pro-Life should actually be called Pro-Oppression.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Pro-Life should actually be called Pro-Oppression.

It could be called a lot of things other than "Pro-Life", as if they're on some kind of higher moral ground here, imposing their beliefs in ways that screws over so many people.

 

[S.Dedalus]

I got different answers on this though as the person above said it was about mental state.

Plus it's not as if babies can survive on their own as it is. Though you could say babies can survive independently without a specific person though ie it needs someone to feed them but it doesn't specifically have to be whomever is carring the baby prebirth.

Yes, that is the point. "Viable" outside the womb doesn't mean that a baby can make its own breakfast and dress itself. It just means that it does not impact the mother's body or health any longer. That is the whole point. Women's bodies are involved in the entire almost yearlong process of a grueling pregnancy. This is what their choice is about - whether or not to put their bodies through that. It has nothing to do with the life or not-life of the fetus inside. It is the bodily autonomy and health concerns of the woman who is pregnant.

Once the fetus is viable, it is simply born... no abortion, and no one is advocating for those babies to be killed. That is why the switch in thinking is so sudden. Once it no longer impacts the woman's body or health, it is a completely different situation.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I hope you don't masturbate. Think about all that life that you have murdered.

Shit like this is why nobody takes us seriously. For the party of "science", we sure like to ignore it only when it fits our narrative with batshit lazy arguments like this.

It's not wrong to understand how conception works, acknowledge the biological processes AND believe in womens rights. It isn't.

I can admit that a fertilized egg is the start of human life (even though it's not a fully formed human, I can't let myself be ignorant of science and the biological processes because my poor feelings boo hoo) but side with women's rights. It's not hard. At all.

You can both not be ignorant AND support the rights of women at the same time. Shocking!

I think the only reason most of us are afraid submit to the biological processes is because then we admit to ending what will eventually, once the process starts, be a human being. We convince ourselves, against all scientific evidence, that what is being done is not taking an eventual human life so we can sleep better at night.

If you are willing to take up the flag for abortion you should be willing to accept science. That what you are doing is preventing a human from existing once the process starts. You need to be OK with that and judging by the myriad of arguments I read - people want to stick their heads in the sand because of fear. Because taking a life IS bad and you need to live with your decision. It's easier to pretend that's not how it works for sake of convenience but pretending isn't reality.

Again, you can understand how it all works and still support a woman's right to choose. The sooner the lot of you stop walking on eggshells the sooner and more salient an argument can be made in favor of.

If you disagree with the biological processes then step aside and let the folks who argue on merit do the talking if it makes you feel better but stop the BS. Republicans are correct in that it is a life, the start of life, that can't be argued but yet some of you do. Screw arguing about science and argue about women's rights. Constantly waving your anti-science stance one moment and then pro-science stance makes you look like fools. Fuck the religious argument, admit that science has you beat and fight for the bottom line - WOMEN'S RIGHTS. That's what it's about - not the definition of what is or what isn't life. You can't argue that because it's not a personal belief.

Ref: After much Googling, the scientific community believes a "human being" (per the studies and documentation) is made at the time of conception when the egg and sperm cease to exist and form a zygote. That zygote has characteristics of both the mother and father as well as it's own DNA. Too many references to cite. Google and pick your favorite.

If you want to change the scientific consensus I suggest you petition the scientific community. Until then, fight for the rights of women and stop looking like fools over flip-flopping our beliefs on science. You don't get to pick and choose science fact like the right does. You don't. Stop acting like them.

 

[Wilsongt]

Congrats white women, you ruined women's right to safe abortions.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I want to know if they can really lower the viability limit to 20 weeks just because they want to. Just get Trump to sign something and all states are beholden. Is it really that easy?

Also life starts at conception is a red herring from pro-lifers.

They don't care about those fertilized eggs in IVF clinics. Thus they don't care about "life starting at conception" really, they just want to ban abortion.

Sperm and egg cells are very much human and alive yet pro-lifers do not consider them persons. So this causes such pro-lifers start clarifying:

Pro-lifers then say life starts with unique dna.

What about proposed cloning technology which has the ability to create people with the same dna as their source (not unique dna)?
What about human Hela cultures which have unique DNA?

So pro-lifers then say life starts with unique dna and has the ability to develop into a human being.

The ability to develop into a human being is irrelevant, since future cloning technologies and current IVF technology can create fertilized eggs.

So pro-lifers then say life starts with unique dna and has the ability to develop into a human being and it has to be a natural process.

This also fails for the previous reason.

You can see the mental gymnastics and ad-hoc qualifiers and addendum's they have to go through to eventually fail and go back to "the bible" or whatever. These people need to be reminded that for the majority of Catholic doctrine, early abortion wasn't murder, it wasn't even homicide.

Some pro-lifers erroneously believe Roman Catholic church's position on abortion has remained unchanged for two thousand years, when nothing could be further from the truth. The position that abortion is a serious sin akin to murder and is grounds for excommunication only became established around 150 years ago.

 

[Pau]

As I saw a woman on Twitter say:

"You can't ban abortions, all you can do is ban safe abortions."

So true and yet that's okay for these people. They think women who try to have abortions deserve to die.

 

[Platy]

Also, when you talk about "when the life start" you should notice that natural abortions can happen till much later on the pregnancy, even if they are more common on early stages.
So if the person's body trows the fetus away, is it murder ?
Because if you are so focused to when it is a life and when it is murder it means that you need to arrest the person whose body rejected the fetus.

Also, considering most extreme "pro lifers" are also against contraceptive pills and other stuffs like that, it should be noticed that natural abortions makes a person who does not have medical abortions have much more abortions than a person who takes contraceptive pills and have 1 or 2 abortions.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Also, when you talk about "when the life start" you should notice that natural abortions can happen till much later on the pregnancy, even if they are more common on early stages.
So if the person's body trows the fetus away, is it murder ?
Because if you are so focused to when it is a life and when it is murder it means that you need to arrest the person whose body rejected the fetus.

Also, considering most extreme "pro lifers" are also against contraceptive pills and other stuffs like that, it should be noticed that natural abortions makes a person who does not have medical abortions have much more abortions than a person who takes contraceptive pills and have 1 or 2 abortions.

They should be questioning their God as some kind of murderer at that point.

 

[QuantumDerp]

honestly, if you ban abortion, might as well ban miscarriages. because fuck choices.

 

[toddhunter]

So serious question:

After they push this religious view on all Americans, what law is next? No way they just stop with this and "single issue voters" will need to be told some reason to vote republican.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

So serious question:

After they push this religious view on all Americans, what law is next? No way they just stop with this and "single issue voters" will need to be told some reason to vote republican.

Deregulate any and all gun laws, because you know, the "sanctity of life". Do as Jesus would, and all that.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

.

 

[samn]

Also, when you talk about "when the life start" you should notice that natural abortions can happen till much later on the pregnancy, even if they are more common on early stages.
So if the person's body trows the fetus away, is it murder ?
Because if you are so focused to when it is a life and when it is murder it means that you need to arrest the person whose body rejected the fetus.

Also, considering most extreme "pro lifers" are also against contraceptive pills and other stuffs like that, it should be noticed that natural abortions makes a person who does not have medical abortions have much more abortions than a person who takes contraceptive pills and have 1 or 2 abortions.

This makes no sense - there is no intent to murder, so it cannot be murder. An incredibly feeble argument that has no hope of convincing even a rational and receptive pro-lifer.

 

[RDreamer]

This makes no sense - there is no intent to murder, so it cannot be murder. An incredibly feeble argument that has no hope of convincing even a rational and receptive pro-lifer.

How do you know there's no intent to murder? Should we investigate every miscarriage to make sure it wasn't intentional? What about those that weren't intentional but maybe were caused by negligence?

 

[rjinaz]

Deregulate any and all gun laws, because you know, the "sanctity of life". Do as Jesus would, and all that.

Surprised there hasn't been an EO on guns yet. Well, there is always day 9 I suppose.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

It is my belief that the baby inside her is another person. A separate body. Besides, I think adoption is a really good option nowadays. There are 40 parents looking to adopt for every 1 child available.

I was almost aborted when I was a baby. If that had happened, I wouldn't exist right now. If that had happened to any of you, you wouldn't be alive right now either. And I think you're all awesome!

As someone who works in social services, let me just tell you that adoption is really not that great an option. A ton of kids come out of the system seriously screwed up or placed with terrible parents. Kids that come out with bad mental defects that aren't really noticeable when they're infants also lead to children ending up in group homes and locked facilities when the adopted parents find out they can't handle something they never expected having to deal with. Many times, kids waiting adoption are severely abused in systems that are stretched too thin to pay the kind of attention many of these children need. I know this because I work with many of these traumatized children, almost all of them byproducts of the adoption system.

It's a messy situation and while I think adoption is mostly a net good, it's far from being this cut-and-dry solution that a lot of pro-lifers like to pretend it is. Especially since most pro-lifers don't want to fund those systems anyway.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

honestly, if you ban abortion, might as well ban miscarriages. because fuck choices.

They don't care they haven't even thought about the logistics of this. I would really and honestly appreciate a pro-life individual who wants to ban abortion, simply explain it to me like I'm five.

What are you going to do? What if a women is pregnant and then she has a miscarriage? What happens if she drinks while pregnant, eats unhealthy, doesn't take prenatal vitamins, etc. etc.

Are you going to put these women in prison? How far do you want to take this.

 

[Seth Enosh]

I want to know if they can really lower the viability limit to 20 weeks just because they want to. Just get Trump to sign something and all states are beholden. Is it really that easy?

Also life starts at conception is a red herring from pro-lifers.

They don't care about those fertilized eggs in IVF clinics. Thus they don't care about "life starting at conception" really, they just want to ban abortion.

Sperm and egg cells are very much human and alive yet pro-lifers do not consider them persons. So this causes such pro-lifers start clarifying:



You can see the mental gymnastics and ad-hoc qualifiers and addendum's they have to go through to eventually fail and go back to "the bible" or whatever. These people need to be reminded that for the majority of Catholic doctrine, early abortion wasn't murder, it wasn't even homicide.

1. Passing a law against abortion after 20 weeks on the federal level isn't happening. You'd need 60 votes in the senate and I'm not sure they even have 50 (there are a couple pro choice republican senators)

2. In Italy, IVF is heavily regulated. You're required to implant all the fertilized embryos you create. The most consistent prolifers absolutely do oppose some IVF practices such as selective reduction and fertilizing eggs that are not implanted. GWB held a photo op with "snowflake children" (IVF embryos adopted when their original parents didn't want them) at some point during his presidency to highlight this issue.

3. For most of history, doctors believed that life began at quickening, when the child first begins to move in the womb. Any abortion after that was considered homicide and a pregnant women could not be executed if carrying a child (this was known as "pleading the belly"). The Catholic Church did change its position 150 years ago when scientists found there is nothing particularly significant about quickening in the process of fetal development, but the standard against abortion was still very strong compared to modern practice in the USA. Quickening was believed to happen 40-80 days after conception.

 

[S.Dedalus]

As someone who works in social services, let me just tell you that adoption is really not that great an option. A ton of kids come out of the system seriously screwed up or placed with terrible parents. Kids that come out with bad mental defects that aren't really noticeable when they're infants also lead to children ending up in group homes and locked facilities when the adopted parents find out they can't handle something they never expected having to deal with. Many times, kids waiting adoption are severely abused in systems that are stretched too thin to pay the kind of attention many of these children need. I know this because I work with many of these traumatized children, almost all of them byproducts of the adoption system.

It's a messy situation and while I think adoption is mostly a net good, it's far from being this cut-and-dry solution that a lot of pro-lifers like to pretend it is. Especially since most pro-lifers don't want to fund those systems anyway.

That job would break me. Goddamn. Having to witness that stuff every day?

I'm glad there are people like you in the world who can take on that hard work. And thank you for speaking up. A lot of people oversimplify a lot around this issue. Pregnancy is no big deal ("you don't have to keep the child, just carry and birth it, that's all"). Adoption is easy peasy ("there are plenty of good parents who will welcome all of the world's unwanted children!").

 

[CadetMahoney]

What if a women is pregnant and then she has a miscarriage? What happens if she drinks while pregnant, eats unhealthy, doesn't take prenatal vitamins, etc. etc.

Are you going to put these women in prison? How far do you want to take this.

Pro-lifers try and dodge any responsibilities to take action as a result of their "personhood" mantra by simply saying they have mercy and compassion on women and will not apply any appropriate punishments or investigations for women who have miscarriages/spontaneous abortions. They already turn a blind eye to IVF, where "innocent little babies" are created and destroyed in the thousands. Proof they don't really believe in what they say, they just want to ban abortion.

When President Bush discussed this issue with the Pope back when he had to make the decision to sign the bill banning stem cell line creation, the Pope suggested that all of the embryos currently in deep storage in fertility clinics should be brought to life by other women who wanted to carry the children, and then put up for adoption by good Catholic families. rofl.

 

[Seth Enosh]

When President Bush discussed this issue with the Pope back when he had to make the decision to sign the bill banning stem cell line creation, the Pope suggested that all of the embryos currently in deep storage in fertility clinics should be brought to life by other women who wanted to carry the children, and then put up for adoption by good Catholic families. rofl.

This is something that does actually happen (in small numbers at the moment). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_children

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

That job would break me. Goddamn. Having to witness that stuff every day?

I'm glad there are people like you in the world who can take on that hard work. And thank you for speaking up. A lot of people oversimplify a lot around this issue. Pregnancy is no big deal ("you don't have to keep the child, just carry and birth it, that's all"). Adoption is easy peasy ("there are plenty of good parents who will welcome all of the world's unwanted children!").

Thanks for the kind words. I'm literally covered in bruises and have a sprained jaw from trying to restrain a kid last week who disassociated and stabbed a coworker in the head with a sharp pencil. This shit isn't easy and costs a fortune. We're talking millions of dollars and collateral damage for the care of one kid over their adolescent period. Hundreds of people and institutions that are absolutely needed and even that's not enough. It's astounding when you step back and look at it.

 

[DarthWoo]

Every time I see the asinine argument that abortion shouldn't happen because there are SO MANY families out there that would be happy to adopt these poor fetuses once they're born, all I can think of is how there are close to half a million children still in the foster care system (as of 2014). What, is it like when you go to a rescue shelter, if the puppy isn't cute enough you don't want it?

Then I also realize that a lot of these same people making these arguments are the same ones who would in the same breath deny same sex couples the right to adopt. Damnable asswipes.

 

[S.Dedalus]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm literally covered in bruises and have a sprained jaw from trying to restrain a kid last week who disassociated and stabbed a coworker in the head with a sharp pencil. This shit isn't easy and costs a fortune. We're talking millions of dollars and collateral damage for the care of one kid over their adolescent period. Hundreds of people and institutions that are absolutely needed and even that's not enough. It's astounding when you step back and look at it.

I can't even imagine. Again, just, thank you so much. Can't come up with any words other than that.

I wish people would listen to stories like yours and try to see the bigger picture of what the system is really like before preying on vulnerable women and telling them that adoption is always an easy, valid option, that their unborn child will end up in a home with loving parents who want him/her.

 

[QuantumDerp]

They don't care they haven't even thought about the logistics of this. I would really and honestly appreciate a pro-life individual who wants to ban abortion, simply explain it to me like I'm five.

What are you going to do? What if a women is pregnant and then she has a miscarriage? What happens if she drinks while pregnant, eats unhealthy, doesn't take prenatal vitamins, etc. etc.

Are you going to put these women in prison? How far do you want to take this.

You know, it just angers me how incredibly shortsighted/inconsistent people can be.

Anybody that says that it is 'evil', then sure, let say it 'evil' because of the some almighty deity told you so and not because it fufills your personal agenda/desire, cuz that be bullshit. Then having all form plastic surgery should be banned, because changing tiniest part of your body is 'evil'. Better yet, let ban cure for all form of cancer, because honeslty let be consistent, why cure something 'good' that diety provided you. Surgery should be banned, because why fixed something that the deity provided you.

Let us join together and ban every form of treatments that you can do on your own choice because those treatments inherently are 'evil' because they change how we operate as humans beings. How about we ban teachers from teaching because gaining knowledge is evil.

 

[RDreamer]

Pro-lifers try and dodge any responsibilities to take action as a result of their "personhood" mantra by simply saying they have mercy and compassion on women and will not apply any appropriate punishments or investigations for women who have miscarriages/spontaneous abortions. They already turn a blind eye to IVF, where "innocent little babies" are created and destroyed in the thousands. Proof they don't really believe in what they say, they just want to ban abortion.

This is part of what gets me. The ideology is completely and utterly unworkable in the modern world, but no one really lets pro-life supporters know what that would actually entail.

Life begins at conception? Alright, then we need an investigation of every miscarriage and stillbirth. There will be consequences for women who abort. There will be consequences for women who risk the "person" in their womb in any way shape or form, including being too obese! (severe obesity can be as harmful to a fetus as drinking alcohol) Science and our ability to research is crippled immensely. IVF is gone.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Yeah, but did you see the VP at the Women's March? No, just the pro life March. That speaks volumes to me and not in a good way.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

This is part of what gets me. The ideology is completely and utterly unworkable in the modern world, but no one really lets pro-life supporters know what that would actually entail.

Life begins at conception? Alright, then we need an investigation of every miscarriage and stillbirth. There will be consequences for women who abort. There will be consequences for women who risk the "person" in their womb in any way shape or form, including being too obese! (severe obesity can be as harmful to a fetus as drinking alcohol) Science and our ability to research is crippled immensely. IVF is gone.

This is exactly my point, it is the logistics of the issue that no one wants to talk about. We are just going to ban abortion and what problem solved?

 

[WiiredShawn]

My stance on abortion is pretty simple:

Will you (the pro-lifers) or your community do whatever is required to care for and adopt the child that a woman has to carry but does not want?

If yes, you may have a seat at the discourse table.

If no, STFU and GTFO.

 

[RDreamer]

This is exactly my point, it is the logistics of the issue that no one wants to talk about. We are just going to ban abortion and what problem solved?

It's because the issue isn't actually driven by a real religious belief. It's driven by propaganda in order to create a wedge issue and cement a voting block. Republicans largely don't actually want the end result of the ideology to actually happen, because it would be politically nuts and because the issue would then be over for them. Instead they eat around the edges for a while, whipping people into a fervor over it while knowing it'll almost never be off the table for them.

In a way it's similar to Obamacare but on a much grander scale. "This is the worst! This is the worst repeal it! We hate it! We can do better! ... oh shit we actually have to do something about it? We didn't think about that... we were too busy using this as an issue to think of it as a an actual policy in practice..." They ran on repealing and replacing it, but you ask them about the details of people dying from losing the mandate for pre-existing conditions and you get nothing. Same as trying to ask republicans about rape pregnancies, IVF, and jailing women who put their fetus in danger. That's the shit that's not actually politically potent so they bury it.

Now, if this actually was a deep religious belief it wouldn't matter that the politicians are burying it, because faith leaders would be talking about this through and through. They're not, though, because this whole goddamned thing is just political.

 

[Takamura-San]

So... this happened today? During the day? On a Friday?

Don't these people have something better to do? Do they even have Jobs?

Who's looking after their kids? Who preparing dinner? Cleaning the house?

Sounds like a bunch of lazy people, if you ask me.

 

[CadetMahoney]

1. Passing a law against abortion after 20 weeks on the federal level isn't happening. You'd need 60 votes in the senate and I'm not sure they even have 50 (there are a couple pro choice republican senators)

2. In Italy, IVF is heavily regulated. You're required to implant all the fertilized embryos you create. The most consistent prolifers absolutely do oppose some IVF practices such as selective reduction and fertilizing eggs that are not implanted. GWB held a photo op with "snowflake children" (IVF embryos adopted when their original parents didn't want them) at some point during his presidency to highlight this issue.

3. For most of history, doctors believed that life began at quickening, when the child first begins to move in the womb. Any abortion after that was considered homicide and a pregnant women could not be executed if carrying a child (this was known as "pleading the belly"). The Catholic Church did change its position 150 years ago when scientists found there is nothing particularly significant about quickening in the process of fetal development, but the standard against abortion was still very strong compared to modern practice in the USA. Quickening was believed to happen 40-80 days after conception.

1 Good to know, I doubt they'll overturn Roe either, if it does it won't be on legal arguments (which is ironic and not happening). What will probably happen is something else they cook up, another Planned Parenthood v. Casey "undue burden".

2 I don't know about Italy, seems tame, I do know about the US though. I posit most don't care about IVF in any way at all, it doesn't even cross their minds. There's never been any protests outside an IVF clinic as far as I know.

3 Indeed, early abortion wasn't murder before then and most abortions are early term. The less severe the sin the less conviction there is behind it that it should be criminalized. Abortion was legal before it was illegal in America and has been legal for longer than it has been illegal.

 

[grumpy]

George Carlin: Pro Life, Abortion, And The Sanctity Of Life

Feels like it's gonna be shared around quite a lot on social media in the next four years.

nsfw language, btw.

 

[International Iron Man]

You can't just blame the republicans. The blame is also on the people that voted these people in. What amazes me, is women voted for republicans. Women voted to literally take their own lives away.

It makes no sense.

Add in racism and sexism and it makes tons of sense.

 

[capitalCORN]

George Carlin: Pro Life, Abortion, And The Sanctity Of Life

Feels like it's gonna be shared around quite a lot on social media in the next four years.

nsfw language, btw.

The truth.

 

[daffy]

Alot of women voted for this shit because their husbands and boyfriends encouraged them to. This bullshit needs to stop.

 

[Maximus.]

It isn't fair to women who didn't have a choice (rape, etc) or one that is not in a financial or mental situation to take care of a child. It doesn't make sense to get rid of all these options. These backwards people need to understand that people should be allowed to make their choice with their body.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is one of the few things to come out of this administration that I don't have a problem with. I don't think I'll ever budge on my conviction of the unborn deserving protection and life. It's interesting to find myself wishing I'd participated in both this and the Women's March.

edit: I'm not interested in debating this, btw. Not because I don't care, or it doesn't matter, but because such issues are not fruitfully discussed online amongst relative strangers. It goes nowhere every time.

Lol so then don't share your thoughts...

 

[capitalCORN]

Here's a story about Pence, the tobacco shill:
https://thinkprogress.org/mike-pence-cigarette-truther-4b89e9304759#.j8n9vtwmj

 

[excelsiorlef]

Why should that right suddenly change as soon as the baby is born assuming you already in your logic chain thought it was a human to begin with?

Would you be OK with the woman killing the born child? If not at what point do you switch? Immediately at birth or before or when?

Umm because it is no longer in what can actually be described as a paristic relationship with the woman.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

This is one of the few things to come out of this administration that I don't have a problem with. I don't think I'll ever budge on my conviction of the unborn deserving protection and life. It's interesting to find myself wishing I'd participated in both this and the Women's March.

edit: I'm not interested in debating this, btw. Not because I don't care, or it doesn't matter, but because such issues are not fruitfully discussed online amongst relative strangers. It goes nowhere every time.

Can you please tell me the end goal, I'm not looking to debate the merits of abortion. I just would like a concise explanation of how you think this would work. Abortion is banned tomorrow, what then? How do we proceed, what are the logistics behind this.

Or are you seriously drive by posting?

 

[BackLogJoe]

Im torn.

I want women to have the right to do with their bodies what they choose.

However...

If abortion were banned, I believe that would be the catalyst needed for the women to rise up and fucking riot until something is done with this administration. Im not trying to downplay anyone elses struggle, but men making laws to tell women what to do is such breach of liberty that I truly believe women are the ultimate victims from Trumps bullshit. If abortion is overturned, I believe that such an injustice will have been done to half the country that this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and shit is going to hit the fan, as it should.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Grats women of the US, you're incapable of making your choices with your body. Gotta let old white men tell you exactly what to do.

These fucking disgusting republicans.

A huge crowd of women voted trump, though. It's really sad.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This is one of the few things to come out of this administration that I don't have a problem with. I don't think I'll ever budge on my conviction of the unborn deserving protection and life. It's interesting to find myself wishing I'd participated in both this and the Women's March.

edit: I'm not interested in debating this, btw. Not because I don't care, or it doesn't matter, but because such issues are not fruitfully discussed online amongst relative strangers. It goes nowhere every time.

You do not belong at the women's march if you agree with taking their rights. Also why post if you're not interested in discussing further about what you post? That's just stupid.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You do not belong at the women's march if you agree with taking their rights. Also why post if you're not interested in discussing further about what you post? That's just stupid.

Here here

 

[adamsappel]

Obligatory: The only moral abortion is MY abortion

 

[kswiston]

I keep misreading the title of this thread as "Pence becomes 1st vice president for life" when I glance through the OT front page.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Im torn.

I want women to have the right to do with their bodies what they choose.

However...

If abortion were banned, I believe that would be the catalyst needed for the women to rise up and fucking riot until something is done with this administration. Im not trying to downplay anyone elses struggle, but men making laws to tell women what to do is such breach of liberty that I truly believe women are the ultimate victims from Trumps bullshit. If abortion is overturned, I believe that such an injustice will have been done to half the country that this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and shit is going to hit the fan, as it should.

I don't want the collateral damage. I rather struggle and still have abortions everywhere rather than rely on rising against the scorched earth. Anti-abortionists whom are inherently regressive will always be around. But technology and modernerity hold its ground, Pro abortion are still at an advantage.