Phil Spencer: The Xbox business will become ‘untenable’ if it remains ‘irrelevant’ on mobile.

Well you're somewhat contradicting yourself here considering you previously seemed to be in agreement with regard to what I said about cloud gaming.

The only way they make significant headway with mobile gaming is through making native versions of games.
I can agree with the present and have a different perspective of the future. Xcloud is in its infancy but given it’s current trajectory it can be massive.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: GHG

IFireflyl

Member
I think the issue is Phil is trying to act like the two parts of the industry are merging but mobile is still a separate part of gaming with it's own outlets, analysts, and research organizations with different goals.

I do understand that Activision will 9bring in a lot more revenue for Xbox, but there are thing Phil can do for PC and uh...console to increase Xbox revenue without mobile, or with modest investment in mobile than trying to act like the two sides are fusing together when the audiences are mostly drastically different.

You and I haven't always agreed with each other, but I support this 100%. Console/PC gaming is completely different than mobile gaming. These are the top downloaded mobile games (combined between iOS and Android) as of July 30, 2022:

1. Roblox
2. Candy Crush Saga
3. Coin Master
4. Fishdom
5. Evony
6. Pokémon GO
7. Call of Duty: Mobile
8. Stumble Guys
9. Royal Match
10. Homescapes
11. Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle
12. Diablo Immortal
13. Bingo Blitz
14. Candy Crush Soda Saga
15. Top War: Battle Game
16. Gardenscapes
17. Jackpot Party – Casino Slots
18. RAID: Shadow Legends
19. State of Survival: Zombie War
20. Puzzles & Survival
21. Solitaire Grand Harvest
22. Toon Blast
23. Township
24. Slotomania Slots Casino Games
25. Garena Free Fire
26. Genshin Impact
27. Fate/Grand Order
28. Clash of Clans
29. Parking Jam 3D
30. DoubleDown Casino
31. Cashman Casino Las Vegas Slots
32. Subway Surfers
33. Marvel Strike Force: Squad RPG
34. Lightning Link Casino Slots
35. Empires & Puzzles Match 3 RPG
36. Fill The Fridge
37. Cash Frenzy – Casino Slots
38. Woodoku
39. Among Us
40. Collect Em All! Clear the Dots
41. Crowd Evolution!
42. Count Masters: Crowd Runner 3D
43. Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes
44. Star Trek Fleet Command
45. Junkyard Keeper
46. Wordle!
47. Wordscapes
48. The President
49. Dig Deep
50. Hoard Master

Source: https://www.singular.net/blog/top-mobile-games/

The vast majority of these games are not games that you see on console/PC, because these aren't the types of games that console/PC gamers want to play. Keeping console/PC games and mobile games under the Xbox umbrella has a very real chance of causing one or the other to suffer as the approach for these types of games are, generally speaking, radically different.

If Microsoft gets into mobile gaming, whether through their own devices or if they acquire a mobile studio/publisher (such as King), it would be better for them to have that under Microsoft Mobile or some other division. There are far more people with smart phones than with an Xbox, and calling it Xbox Mobile sounds misleading since the majority of mobile games under Activision/Blizzard/King aren't console/PC games.
 

Scotty W

Member
Its kinect all over again, these dipshits never learn. MS have always chased gimmicks.
I am not so sure the Kinect was a failure.

The games seem pretty bad, and maybe they even lost money on it, but I have always got the impression that it is a kind of future investment. I recall seeing a lot of creative non commercial applications of it, which makes me think it is a learning opportunity.

I would be interested to know the kinds of applications that Kinect knowledge has already been involved in, ie Military our home tech related.

I say this as someone who has no interest in Xbox or mobile gaming.

I was in Laos a few years ago, in an area that was pure jungle just a few yeas ago. All the kids there are playing games on their mobile phones. The size of the mobile market to be opened up is staggering and expanding exponentially, whereas traditional gaming is expanding arithmetically and is expensive and slow to develop for. Sure, that is bad for those of us who care about quality, but progress is not inevitable.

Gaming may get worse in the future.
 
Last edited:

AJUMP23

Member
I guess it all depends on what they do in mobile. Nintendo seems to be the best situated in mobile of the big 3. I don’t play their games though, and I don’t want mobile Halo. But I am sure some one does.
 
I am not so sure the Kinect was a failure.

The games seem pretty bad, and maybe they even lost money on it, but I have always got the impression that it is a kind of future investment. I recall seeing a lot of creative non commercial applications of it, which makes me think it is a learning opportunity.

I would be interested to know the kinds of applications that Kinect knowledge has already been involved in, ie Military our home tech related.

I say this as someone who has no interest in Xbox or mobile gaming.

I was in Laos a few years ago, in an area that was pure jungle just a few yeas ago. All the kids there are playing games on their mobile phones. The size of the mobile market to be opened up is staggering and expanding exponentially, whereas traditional gaming is expanding arithmetically and is expensive and slow to develop for. Sure, that is bad for those of us who care about quality, but progress is not inevitable.

Gaming may get worse in the future.
Kinect was Alexa 15 years too early, and more advanced.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
This is why Sony stated 'we believe in generations'.

This is one of the reasons I support Sony.
Except, they just hide their mobile gaming efforts from you by using the label Aniplex.
Heard a lot of you guys were predicting Sony would buy Shift Up, the devs of Stellar Blade next. Stellar Blade is just a new side project. It's a mobile game dev studio that first made Destiny Child and now this
Too late Phil, the GOAT mobile game just released a week or so ago:


Compared to almost every other publisher, Xbox is very late to the free to play online mobile gaming business.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I don't get how "Xbox" will be relevant if the Microsoft Corporation get Candy Crush or COD Mobile? Sounds to me like they just want to add that revenue to their excel and that's it.
It's just turned into way too of a big market to keep ignoring forever. Almost all the big publishers have entered it into some way and all of them made billions out of it, so Microsoft is like "better late than never".
That would be great to reach new customers in the Korean market and Genshin fans. Horizon world and lore is huge with tons of potential.
Heck you even said this in the NC soft thread.
For example there are so many Age of Empires clones in the Play Store, half of them probably made more money than Age of Empires 4 and reach to a way bigger audience. So Microsoft is making its own mobile Age of Empires game.
 
Last edited:

Raven77

Member
Allow me to translate:

We need to constantly be making more and more money every quarter forever or else our stock price will drop. Because of this, we will eventually make terrible mistakes that do damage to our brand and to our revenue. We'll blame that though, when it inevitably happens, on outside factors.
 

GhostOfTsu

Member
It's just turned into way too of a big market to keep ignoring forever. Almost all the big publishers have entered it into some way and all of them made billions out of it, so Microsoft is like "better late than never".

Heck you even said this in the NC soft thread.
??? Candy Crush, Diablo Immortal and COD mobile already exist. They are just adding those same customers to their spreadsheet. Nothing is gained. Nothing is created.

Horizon Online doesn't exist. They are making it from scratch so your cheap gotcha doesn't work. What a stretch to link both 🙄
 

Raven77

Member
What are these "terrible mistakes" you speak of?

Those mistakes I allude to are in the future.

Some guesses are, a huge push on mobile that pulls resources from console games development, trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing very few, spending a fortune buying mobile developers pulling more funds from console games, making bad mobile games as they try to just copy whatever fad is currently hot.

They will then be unable to grasp how their obvious path to failure was so not-obvious to them.

I love Microsoft, but this next gen has been a bit of a letdown.
 
Last edited:
I haven't read/watched the full interview yet.

Is Phil saying that Xbox's current trajectory and business model are untenable? And only mobile can save it?
 

Ozriel

Member
Wasn't Kinect their answer to the Wii? They thought there was a market they could grab money from so they invested in something to go get it. Seems pretty similar in some respects except they're trying to buy a proven player in the market.

You’re actually calling mobile gaming a ‘gimmick’?
😀
 

Ozriel

Member

For everyone.

What a horrific quote.

Why would anyone (with a brain) care about corporations and video games if this "maximum profits!" talk becomes the reasoning behind games?

Not that it isn't now, but I mean as a literal "this game is here to make money and not for actual entertainment" (basically mobile games as they are today).

I already buy less games today and would just further my reach into playing old games or indie games.

You’d buy fewer games because console makers invested in mobile gaming?
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
I haven't read/watched the full interview yet.

Is Phil saying that Xbox's current trajectory and business model are untenable? And only mobile can save it?
Xbox has been committed to reach 3 billion users.


To obtain that number he needs mobile users.
PC and consoles alone won’t do it.
 

GhostOfTsu

Member
Xbox has been committed to reach 3 billion users.


To obtain that number he needs mobile users.
PC and consoles alone won’t do it.
Those are ABK customers. They right-clicked and renamed the file Xbox.xls and said "we reached new customers". That's it.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Those mistakes I allude to are in the future.

Some guesses are, a huge push on mobile that pulls resources from console games development, trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing very few, spending a fortune buying mobile developers pulling more funds from console games, making bad mobile games as they try to just copy whatever fad is currently hot.

They will then be unable to grasp how their obvious path to failure was so not-obvious to them.

I love Microsoft, but this next gen has been a bit of a letdown.
Why is it "pulling more funds from console games" and "making bad mobile games" and leading to "obvious path to failure"? Why would not it help there own console business?
Nintendo and Sony are both trajecting upwards.
If they are, then why are they investing so much in to mobile like Pokemon Unite or Fate Grand Order. By your logic should not it be Xbox that should have entered mobile first, since there console business. They stayed out of the free to play online mobile market the longest.
So basically, Xbox as a brand is becoming irrelevant.

Straight out of the horses mouth.

Who would've guessed?
They should just become a 3rd party publisher,.
People have been saying they will close down Xbox since forever.
I remember when ZhugeX said Microsoft will reduce investment to first party projects for Xbox, and next year Microsoft announced buying Ninja Theory and other devs.
 
Last edited:

Helghan

Member
??? Candy Crush, Diablo Immortal and COD mobile already exist. They are just adding those same customers to their spreadsheet. Nothing is gained. Nothing is created.

Horizon Online doesn't exist. They are making it from scratch so your cheap gotcha doesn't work. What a stretch to link both 🙄
But you will also have the developer that created these games for future mobile game development.

Xbox is more than just the console. It’s the brand for everything gaming towards consumers. PC, console, cloud, mobile (thanks to the acquisition), and who knows VR if it ever takes off.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
??? Candy Crush, Diablo Immortal and COD mobile already exist. They are just adding those same customers to their spreadsheet. Nothing is gained. Nothing is created.

Horizon Online doesn't exist. They are making it from scratch so your cheap gotcha doesn't work. What a stretch to link both 🙄
Its known that COD mobile actually helped the sales for COD in PC/Console, so a lot was gained. I even gave you the example of Age of Empires Mobile for gods sake.
 

Three

Member
I don't get how "Xbox" will be relevant if the Microsoft Corporation get Candy Crush or COD Mobile? Sounds to me like they just want to add that revenue to their excel and that's it.

Those players are already playing on their phones. They don't need Xbox.
Not sure either. I'm not sure why he brings up "xbox" to that strategy. The "niche" (as he calls it) of consoles in general are on the decline and that's true but xbox for him would be irrelevant as a brand if what he is saying is true.

In around 2017 there was a major shift by MS in terms of strategy to gamepass and acquisitions and not 'xbox'. He was promoted to "CEO of Microsoft Gaming" and got rid of xbox from his title, Gamepass on PC was renamed to "PC gamepass" from "xbox gamepass" . Why would they try and say xbox is the relevant brand that would live on mobile? Either say xbox as a brand will become irrelevant and we will have mobile gamepass or don't spend the last few years removing the name from your products and titles. Are they trying to play 4D chess with regulators in terms of separated products? So they concentrate on xbox now instead of gamepass?

Anyway, on topic, what's wrong with supporting a niche as long as it is profitable? I think that has been MS biggest weakness with xbox throughout its life. It's the reason they didn't have the smaller new IPs (gamepass made that possible), the reason they abandoned game output at the end of 360 (because motion controls were more mainstream), and the reason they have no VR support, it all comes down to not supporting the smaller markets and chasing only the mainstream. I guess mobile is the new one to chase and again abandon the hardcore niche.
 
Last edited:

GhostOfTsu

Member
Its known that COD mobile actually helped the sales for COD in PC/Console, so a lot was gained. I even gave you the example of Age of Empires Mobile for gods sake.
You edited your post after I replied. There is nothing wrong with making Age of Empires on mobile. No one is against that.

It proves they don't need Candy Crush to reach "new" customers on mobile.
 

Three

Member
Xbox is more than just the console. It’s the brand for everything gaming towards consumers. PC, console, cloud, mobile (thanks to the acquisition), and who knows VR if it ever takes off.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/m...e-name-of-xbox-game-pass-for-pc/1100-6499352/

They specifically removed xbox from gamepass branding to make it clear a console isn't required. Not sure why they are not doing the same for mobile but I suspect they will at some stage when they don't primarily use the app to install things on consoles.

If they start providing future mobile games like Candy Crush, Diablo Immortal, etc in a service like Apple arcade does it would just be adding mobile games to gamepass and calling it "gamepass" or "mobile gamepass". Unless they reneged on that idea of removing xbox branding not to confuse it with the console and plan to reintroduce xbox branding to the service on other devices.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
You edited your post after I replied.


It proves they don't need Candy Crush to reach "new" customers on mobile.
Can you say the same thing about Bungie's upcoming mobile game. The NetEase partnership was known since 2018 or 2019. Why would they need that game to reach "new customers".
Or if they eventually acquire Shift Up?
They don't need Destiny Child or Goddess of Victory: Nikke to reach new customers do they?
 
Last edited:

reksveks

Member
ABK deal is about giving them a user base and a couple of huge mobile games to try and push a mobile app store.

P. S I don't see candy crush being exclusive cause it's too risky but see gamepass subs and perks being exclusive to the store.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
If they are, then why are they investing so much in to mobile like Pokemon Unite or Fate Grand Order. By your logic should not it be Xbox that should have entered mobile first, since there console business. They stayed out of the free to play online mobile market the longest.
You’re asking why they started down the mobile path a decade or so ago?
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
ABK deal is about giving them a user base and a couple of huge mobile games to try and push a mobile app store.

P. S I don't see candy crush being exclusive cause it's too risky but see gamepass subs and perks being exclusive to the store.
Not sure third party store catch on that that much on Android and on iOS still a non starter… :/.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
You’re asking why they started down the mobile path a decade or so ago?
I meant the investment into free to play mobile gacha games. That started around 2015. Pokemon Go was a test, after that Nintendo self published the mobile games and pushed a lot more into the mobile business.
 

reksveks

Member
Not sure third party store catch on that that much on Android and on iOS still a non starter… :/.
Definitely if the US OAMA bill doesn't pass and/or the DMA as written isn't enforced.

Even if those two things roll out, then it's an uphill battle especially on IOS.

I think the likelihood for 'success' is low in general but honestly it's probably worth the risk. Success being an actual competitor to the current app stores.
 
Last edited:
He saw Sony plan, and got scared a bit.

Even with a company like Sony, who are having success are going after mobile and live service market.

That should tell us something about the current console model.
Sony already is making phone games. You might have heard of it. A game so big that it funded multiple TV shows by itself.
Note that this ONE game, earned combined 4 Billion in revenue from debut to last year.
Note that this is entirely separate from PlayStation and is from Sony Music. There is no reason why Xbox as a brand need to go into Mobile, they have nothing in common.
 

Three

Member
Definitely if the US OAMA bill doesn't pass and/or the DMA as written isn't enforced.

Even if those two things roll out, then it's an uphill battle especially on IOS.

I think the likelihood for 'success' is low in general but honestly it's probably worth the risk. Success being an actual competitor to the current app stores.
They have absolutely no chance and it's a red herring in the deal. Even on PC other game specific stores struggle against Steam. They have absolutely no chance competing against the Apple App store or Google Play on mobile.
 
Last edited:
People have been saying they will close down Xbox since forever.
I remember when ZhugeX said Microsoft will reduce investment to first party projects for Xbox, and next year Microsoft announced buying Ninja Theory and other devs.
I also remember people who stated what Spencer has been talking about lately being labeled a "fanboy" when the writing has been on the wall since the Xbox One reveal.

MS is in a tough spot. They are far from a direct competitor to both Sony and Nintendo in the traditional sense.
So the gambled on GamePass, announcing it as the second coming of Jesus.
Recently, they came out saying GamePass isn't sustainable (which was obvious from the beginning).

Now they have to gamble on the mobile market.

They're pretty clueless about the gaming-space, really.

I honestly don't see how this gen isn't a transitional phase for MS to quitting competing with Sony mainly (and Nintendo indirectly) and becoming a 3rd party publisher.

Just release Xbox 1st party titles on all competing platforms, as well as GamePass, remove the XBL-requirement and everybody will win, incl gamers.
 
Last edited:

Godot25

Member
He is not wrong.

We can clearly see it. Sony is expanding to PC market because consoles are not providing growth they need. They are expanding into live service to provide additional revenue stream and it is only matter of time when they dive deep into mobile gaming (they recently bought mobile games studio) and cloud streaming.

Only reason why Nintendo does not need to do this is because budget for their first-party games is lower than Sony/Microsoft and also because Switch is monster success after WiiU's failure. Also, Nintendo is tapping into previously untapped revenue streams like multiplayer paid gate. But they are also tipping their toes into mobile gaming.

It's funny. Because Spencer from the beginning claims that this deal is more about Blizzard and mobile than it is about Call of Duty. And it makes sense. Blizzard will give Microsoft more presence on PC, while whole ABK will give Microsoft great chance to break into mobile gaming through games like Diablo Immortal, Call of Duty Mobile and Candy Crush. And if Microsoft is smart, they will tie in some benefits for those games into Game Pass, so they can grow subscription in that way also.
 

silent head

Member
Sony already is making phone games. You might have heard of it. A game so big that it funded multiple TV shows by itself.
Note that this ONE game, earned combined 4 Billion in revenue from debut to last year.
Note that this is entirely separate from PlayStation and is from Sony Music. There is no reason why Xbox as a brand need to go into Mobile, they have nothing in common.
6.3 billion
https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/x9m8xp/fategrand_order_has_exceeded_63_billion_in/#:~:text=According to Sensor Tower, as,average of $900M/year.
 
Last edited:

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I also remember people who stated this being labeled a "fanboy" when the writing has been on the wall since the Xbox One reveal.

MS is in a tough spot. They are far from a direct competitor to both Sony and Nintendo in the traditional sense.
So the gambled on GamePass, announcing it as the second coming of Jesus.
Recently, they came out saying GamePass isn't sustainable (which was obvious from the beginning).

Now they have to gamble on the mobile market.

They're pretty clueless about the gaming-space, really.

I honestly don't see how this gen isn't a transitional phase for MS to quitting competing with Sony mainly (and Nintendo indirectly) and becoming a 3rd party publisher.

Just release Xbox 1st party titles on all competing platforms, as well as GamePass, remove the XBL-requirement and everybody will win, incl gamers.
You guys have been saying the same thing since 2013, Game Pass just became the new ammo for this argument. As mentioned in this very page, compared to other two console manufacturers Microsoft is 6-7 years late to the free to play mobile gaming market. So are they all in "transitioning phase" to abandon their platform because they are "gambling with the mobile market". Somehow, the writing has always been the wall that Microsoft close Xbox, instead they just keep expanding.
Funny that you are trying to find argument for defending ZhugeX's deleted tweet of Microsoft decreasing Xbox first party investment when the reverse happened. There are no receipts to any of these claims you make just more "muh Game Pass" essays.
 
Top Bottom