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[BHK3]

Huh? Maybe I'm confused, but I thought it was intended to be DLC a few months after release. You can't get the characters by beating the game or getting all the achievements, you HAVE to buy them to unlock them....in a few months when Capcom puts the unlock codes up for purchase. The people who have pirated the game have accessed said characters, so not only do they play the game early, they get the characters two months early as well. When I get my copy Tuesday, I can't play with any of them no matter what I do unless I void the warranty on my system and go that route.

Again, that is from my understanding of the situation. Are they unlockable on day one any other way? What do you mean "they are just hard to get"? This entire thread is pointless if so lol

No one pirated anything, people have been playing the game for days because they got it early. They simply went digging into the disc and unlocked the characters for themselves, there's literally no piracy here because nothings being stolen or copied.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

1) This question has been asked several times but nobody has answered it: "Would you still be mad if the content WASN'T on the disc?" I'm sure it's VERY difficult to drag the 12 characters out of the "characters" folder and make sure they're not on the disc. If it's going to be DLC ANYWAY (and these guys were already made, so they WERE going to be DLC), then I'd rather have it ON DISC than have to download 700 MB just because of some crybabies.

2) I run tournaments as well. Some of the consoles I use don't have a lot of room for memory. I DON'T WANT TO DOWNLOAD HUGE DLC FILES. This goes back to #1. The content was going to be for sale. It was either going to be on or off the disc. Would you rather have it on or off?

3) The budget of the game nowadays INCLUDES DLC characters. That's how things work. I'll budget another $5000 so we can get a faster return on investment rather than budget $5000 LATER and get a smaller ROI due to less interest in the game (maybe due to a new game such as Call of Duty or Tekken).

4) Why should you be entitled to everything on the disc? You're entitled to whatever you purchase. Never did Capcom say "spend $60 and you get 50 characters!" That's the stupidest argument ever. Also, I didn't hear you cats complain when we didn't get Mew in Pokemon Red/Blue. You know what I'm talking about. That dude was on the cartridge.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

No one pirated anything, people have been playing the game for days because they got it early. They simply went digging into the disc and unlocked the characters for themselves, there's literally no piracy here because nothings being stolen or copied.

...Are you serious?
Accessing content meant to be sold for money isn't stealing things?
...Would you say that you've done that?

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I waited a little bit because of how fast this thread was moving, but no replies in between

 

[Flying Wonkey]

Also, I didn't hear you cats complain when we didn't get Mew in Pokemon Red/Blue. You know what I'm talking about. That dude was on the cartridge.

Everybody was too busy trying to figure out how you could get Mew in there. Under that truck manggg.

 

[BHK3]

...Are you serious?
Accessing content meant to be sold for money isn't stealing things?
...Would you say that you've done that?

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I waited a little bit because of how fast this thread was moving, but no replies in between

The contents on the disc, I bought the disc right? What'd I do wrong?

 

[Phonomezer]

The people defending this are annoying me.

 

[MightyKAC]

Are you not buying it because the DLC is on disk, or that it has DLC in general.
If you were gonna buy it, knowing theres DLC, then the fact it's on disk shouldn't really change anything.

im not buying it staight away anyway.

In this specific case I'm not buying it because in my eyes it's a waste of money. If I pay 60$ for it right now I'm getting a game with less characters (and in my eyes less game) for my money then I would if I had bought it in a month or so. In regards to character DLC in general I don't really mind it except for the fact that this one will be missing 12 characters which is almost a quarter of the roster.

Why would I buy this now knowing that:

A. the price will drop
B. more characters are coming
C. the community (i.e. the reason I play fighting games) will still be there once A and B happen.

By buying this I'm knowingly screwing myself out of money IMO.

Of course there are those who think otherwise and THAT'S COOL TOO. Not at all my place to tell someone how to spend their money. But I think the whole situation devalues my gaming dollar and I'm not one to suffer in silence about it.

 

[giancarlo123x]

The people defending this are annoying me.

I really don't see how people can defend this crap, its disgusting.

 

[abstract alien]

No one pirated anything, people have been playing the game for days because they got it early. They simply went digging into the disc and unlocked the characters for themselves, there's literally no piracy here because nothings being stolen or copied.

I knew about the people who got legit copies early, but I thought it was available on the internet and folks were getting it that way as well. My fault.

 

[Papercuts]

I really don't see how people can defend this crap, its disgusting.

There is literally a defense force for everything...somehow.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

At least don't leave that shit on the disc.
Completely ridiculous.

 

[MightyKAC]

The contents on the disc, I bought the disc right? What'd I do wrong?

Disc owner ship =! license ownership.

The characters that are locked away on that disc you bought are not covered by the initial purchase of the game.

 

[Skilletor]

The people defending this are annoying me.

The people trying to dictate how I should spend my money are annoying me.

 

[Card Boy]

...Are you serious?
Accessing content meant to be sold for money isn't stealing things?
...Would you say that you've done that?

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I waited a little bit because of how fast this thread was moving, but no replies in between

I was waiting for someone like you to show up. SMH.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Of course its stupid but like... this has been going on for years. This is nothing new and developers obviously aren't going to change their plans whether YOU buy the game or not. Because the masses will buy the game.

This is a "war" the consumer already lost.

 

[vg260]

1) This question has been asked several times but nobody has answered it: "Would you still be mad if the content WASN'T on the disc?" I'm sure it's VERY difficult to drag the 12 characters out of the "characters" folder and make sure they're not on the disc. If it's going to be DLC ANYWAY (and these guys were already made, so they WERE going to be DLC), then I'd rather have it ON DISC than have to download 700 MB just because of some crybabies.

2) I run tournaments as well. Some of the consoles I use don't have a lot of room for memory. I DON'T WANT TO DOWNLOAD HUGE DLC FILES. This goes back to #1. The content was going to be for sale. It was either going to be on or off the disc. Would you rather have it on or off?

3) The budget of the game nowadays INCLUDES DLC characters. That's how things work. I'll budget another $5000 so we can get a faster return on investment rather than budget $5000 LATER and get a smaller ROI due to less interest in the game (maybe due to a new game such as Call of Duty or Tekken).

4) Why should you be entitled to everything on the disc? You're entitled to whatever you purchase. Never did Capcom say "spend $60 and you get 50 characters!" That's the stupidest argument ever. Also, I didn't hear you cats complain when we didn't get Mew in Pokemon Red/Blue. You know what I'm talking about. That dude was on the cartridge.

Stop making sense. I want everything they created by the time it went gold on my disc with full access, because I am their customer. As soon as it's complete, I am entitled to it no matter why or for what purchase method the content was created. Anything less is a scam, and they're disgusting company. I want to go back to the days of cartridges because companies gave use everything they made. Companies back then surely wouldn't have sold DLC if the technology would have been available to them, because they were pure and good.

 

[TDLink]

Disc owner ship =! license ownership.

The characters that are locked away on that disc you bought are not covered by the initial purchase of the game.

That honestly makes no sense. I know people are starting to get used to just taking it from companies now due to everything going digital but as long as we still have discs we are still buying physical things. Unlike digital copies with a physical copy we -are- actually owning what we are buying opposed to just getting a license. This whole on-disc DLC thing definitely is a grey area but I don't think it is actually illegal for people to do what they want with what they bought provided they have the know how.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Simply vote with your wallet. Do not buy Capcom products, they will learn. Or buy them used.

That honestly makes no sense. I know people are starting to get used to just taking it from companies now due to everything going digital but as long as we still have discs we are still buying physical things. Unlike digital copies with a physical copy we -are- actually owning what we are buying opposed to just getting a license. This whole on-disc DLC thing definitely is a grey area but I don't think it is actually illegal.

Yes it is legal. What you don't understand is that CD/DVD/Blu-Ray is simply a physical medium used to transport digital content. What you are buying is a licence, you've been doing this for 20 years now. It's just now that companies figured they can cut and re-package the digital content and increase their revenue stream. Your notion is the same as pirates used when pirating content - you are not stealing anything, because you are not depriving anyone of the product (as opposed to stealing a physical item).

 

[BHK3]

Disc owner ship =! license ownership.

The characters that are locked away on that disc you bought are not covered by the initial purchase of the game.

What license? I bought a disc, I paid $60~ for this DISC. If they don't want me doing something concerning the contents within this disk, then they should have not put said content into said disc.

 

[Negator]

There is literally a defense force for everything...somehow.

It's amazing how they'll lube themselves up to help Capcom stick it to them. The defense force should not exist.

Oh well. Hopefully people will see the light and not condone this garbage.

You know what they say about a fool and his money...

 

[SRTtoZ]

Disc owner ship =! license ownership.

The characters that are locked away on that disc you bought are not covered by the initial purchase of the game.

I'm all for the DLC but this is stupid. If its ON the DISK, and people can unlock it, its Capcoms fault. If they want it as true DLC, remove it from the disk so no one can unlock it. End of story. If I buy the disc, anything on it is mine...I'm tired of this 'licensing' BS.

 

[lobdale]

Best part is that they've never even said whether the extra characters will be paid unlocks or not, just that they'd "make sure we have feature parity" with the Vita version. Maybe the day Vita comes out the other ones unlock for free.

WHO FUCKIN KNOWS

 

[MightyKAC]

That honestly makes no sense. I know people are starting to get used to just taking it from companies now due to everything going digital but as long as we still have discs we are still buying physical things. Unlike digital copies with a physical copy we -are- actually owning what we are buying opposed to just getting a license. This whole on-disc DLC thing definitely is a grey area but I don't think it is actually illegal for people to do what they want with what they bought provided they have the know how.

Well there's no real way Capcom can enforce it save keeping you from being able to use the content online or keeping you from streaming it live / puting it on youtube.

But make no mistake about it, it IS piracy.

 

[Phonomezer]

The people trying to dictate how I should spend my money are annoying me.

I don't give a shit if people buy it or not, but I have a problem with people acting as if it's okay and treating it as if it should be a normal practice that we should all expect and get used to. It isn't, and though it has been done before, it's usually the same old culprits.

I am surprised that this kind of behaviour by companies is tolerated and defended on GAF.

But to each their own. If Crimson Dragon had Day 1 DLC that required a key I'd be down like my internet connection. Different kettle of fish, though.

 

[vg260]

I really don't see how people can defend this crap, its disgusting.

Please be more specific.

Also, note there is a difference between defending and enlightening people on how things actually work in business.

Who here would NOT rather have all 12 characters playable for $60? No one? I thought so.

 

[Absoludacrous]

Disc owner ship =! license ownership.

The characters that are locked away on that disc you bought are not covered by the initial purchase of the game.

What? Did you sign a contract or something when you bought the game? I don't remember reading that fine print anywhere.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Best part is that they've never even said whether the extra characters will be paid unlocks or not, just that they'd "make sure we have feature parity" with the Vita version. Maybe the day Vita comes out the other ones unlock for free.

WHO FUCKIN KNOWS

LOL cmon, this is Capcom.

 

[TDLink]

Simply vote with your wallet. Do not buy Capcom products, they will learn. Or buy them used.




Yes it is legal. What you don't understand is that CD/DVD/Blu-Ray is simply a physical medium used to transport digital content. What you are buying is a licence, you've been doing this for 20 years now. It's just now that companies figured they can cut and re-package the digital content and increase their revenue stream. Your notion is the same as pirates used when pirating content - you are not stealing anything, because you are not depriving anyone of the product (as opposed to stealing a physical item).

I don't see it as the same at all. I would never pirate content like that, but I think you are entitled to do what you want with things you already have purchased legitimately. For example, last year I imported a copy of Xenoblade from Europe since there was uncertainty if it would come out in the US. I had to "hack" my Wii in order to allow it to play the PAL disc. However, I still purchased the Wii legitimately and bought an actual physical copy of Xenoblade. Hacking the console is frowned upon by Nintendo (The console manufacturer) but I feel it was within my rights as having purchased that physical item to alter it in order to allow it to accomplish what I wanted.

 

[Castor Krieg]

What license? I bought a disc, I paid $60~ for this DISC. If they don't want me doing something concerning the contents within this disk, then they should have not put said content into said disc.

No, you did not buy the disc. Did you pay the price of a blank CD while buying a 60$ game? You didn't. You bought a licence to utilize digital content stored on a disc. Why is it so hard to understand?

I don't see it as the same at all. I would never pirate content like that, but I think you are entitled to do what you want with things you already have purchased legitimately. For example, last year I imported a copy of Xenoblade from Europe since there was uncertainty if it would come out in the US. I had to "hack" my Wii in order to allow it to play the PAL disc. However, I still purchased the Wii legitimately and bought an actual physical copy of Xenoblade. Hacking the console is frowned upon by Nintendo (The console manufacturer) but I feel it was within my rights as having purchased that physical item to alter it in order to allow it to accomplish what I wanted.

How is that example relevant? You bought an original copy of the game. Last time I noticed modifying the console in US is not illegal, it only voids you warranty. You are perfectly in your rights to do what you did. At the same time by choosing to utilize a digital products you are agreeing to ToS listed during installation process (or in case of console games - in the manual). There is says exactly you are buying a licence to use the product in terms and size defined by the licence creator i.e. publisher.

 

[Papercuts]

Best part is that they've never even said whether the extra characters will be paid unlocks or not, just that they'd "make sure we have feature parity" with the Vita version. Maybe the day Vita comes out the other ones unlock for free.

WHO FUCKIN KNOWS

This is capcom. Shuma and Jill cost $5 each in MvC3, and if you didn't buy them they STILL aren't unlocked in the Ultimate version, and they STILL aren't in the vita version. I will literally eat a sock if these characters are released for free.

 

[MightyKAC]

What license? I bought a disc, I paid $60~ for this DISC. If they don't want me doing something concerning the contents within this disk, then they should have not put said content into said disc.

Yes, you own the physical media that's used to deliver Capcoms content to you. You do not however legally own all the content on that disk. What you paid for is 38 characters but the other 12 are not covered by that cost. Those will be availible for DLC at a later date for a different price.

This is how it works for ALL games nowadays.

 

[SRTtoZ]

No, you did not buy the disc. Did you pay the price of a blank CD while buying a 60$ game? You didn't. You bought a licence to utilize digital content stored on a disc. Why is it so hard to understand?

The price of the CD is included in the $60. What PLANET are you from?? Just like the price/cost of the case and manual and manufacturing are included in the $60 as well.

 

[Skilletor]

I don't give a shit if people buy it or not, but I have a problem with people acting as if it's okay and treating it as if it should be a normal practice that we should all expect and get used to. It isn't, and though it has been done before, it's usually the same old culprits.

I am surprised that this kind of behaviour by companies is tolerated and defended on GAF.

But to each their own. If Crimson Dragon had Day 1 DLC that required a key I'd be down like my internet connection. Different kettle of fish, though.

Well, I don't care if it is on the disc or not. I thought I'd be getting the initial 38 characters. That's what was announced, that's what I'm paying for. If I want these 12 characters, I'll pay for them. If I don't, I won't. But it's getting annoying reading this thread and being called a fool or stupid because I choose to weigh the money I spend against the amount of entertainment I think I'll get.

I know what I'm buying. If I don't like that, I won't buy it. Since I know I'll be playing this game for a long time and for many hours, it's worth it to me. I don't give a shit about anti-consumer whatever. I'm buying a game that I know I'll enjoy. The politics don't equate into that. I don't care at all about it.

Bring on Lars.

 

[TDLink]

No, you did not buy the disc. Did you pay the price of a blank CD while buying a 60$ game? You didn't. You bought a licence to utilize digital content stored on a disc. Why is it so hard to understand?

Price of the disc (or cartridge) is included in the price you pay for the game, so you actually do pay for the CD it came on. There is no license with physical copies like this. If there was there would be some sort of agreement which you have to sign or accept upon purchase, which there isn't.

 

[Castor Krieg]

The price of the CD is included in the $60. What PLANET are you from?? Just like the price/cost of the case and manual and manufacturing are included in the $60 as well.

Fine, let's assume blank CD costs 0.10$. What did you buy with 59.90$?

Price of the disc (or cartridge) is included in the price you pay for the game, so you actually do pay for the CD it came on. There is no license with physical copies like this. If there was there would be some sort of agreement which you have to sign or accept upon purchase, which there isn't.

Yes, there is. PC - during installation. Console games - check in manual. "By utilizing the purchased product, you acknowledge..."

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I don't like this trend either, but at this point it should be expected and not a surprise.

Anyway, I think for me, in this case, Capcom and Ono put in a lot of content in the game so I'm not that disappointed. I think even without those 12 characters, the game has such an amazing roster.

Marvel VS Capcom 3 and Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3 on the other hand did disappoint me especially leaving out Jill/Shuma in Ultimate *ahem* (and in the Vita version).

...I still don't like the costumes as DLC though.

 

[TDLink]

Fine, let's assume blank CD costs 0.10$. What did you buy with 59.90$?

The contents on the disc?

 

[SRTtoZ]

Fine, let's assume blank CD costs 0.10$. What did you buy with 59.90$?



Yes, there is. PC - during installation. Console games - check in manual. "By utilizing the purchased product, you acknowledge..."

Like I said, you buy the DATA on the disk, you buy the case, the cd, the manual, you pay the cost of manufacturing etc etc. The same reason why PS Vita games are cheaper digitally than physical copies because they deduct the cost of all that stuff. Listen, I dont care if they charge for DLC, but cmon, take the content off the disk if you dont want people to unlock it. Its common sense...

 

[BHK3]

Yes, you own the physical media that's used to deliver Capcoms content to you. You do not however legally own all the content on that disk. What you paid for is 38 characters but the other 12 are not covered by that cost. Those will be availible for DLC at a later date for a different price.

This is how it works for ALL games nowadays.

I didn't sign anything stating that not everything on the disc was mine and I agree to being restricted from accessing certain content.

No, you did not buy the disc. Did you pay the price of a blank CD while buying a 60$ game? You didn't. You bought a licence to utilize digital content stored on a disc. Why is it so hard to understand?



How is that example relevant? You bought an original copy of the game. Last time I noticed modifying the console in US is not illegal, it only voids you warranty. You are perfectly in your rights to do what you did. At the same time by choosing to utilize a digital products you are agreeing to ToS listed during installation process (or in case of console games - in the manual). There is says exactly you are buying a licence to use the product in terms and size defined by the licence creator i.e. publisher.

Once again, a magical ToS from a capcom rep did not enter my hands at the date of purchase. I bought the disc that contains said content, WHY, can I not use all of the content?

 

[MightyKAC]

I cannot WAIT to hear how much Capcom is gonna be charging for each of these characters.

 

[Kintaro]

4) Why should you be entitled to everything on the disc? You're entitled to whatever you purchase. Never did Capcom say "spend $60 and you get 50 characters!"

You know what is interesting? There is nowhere in this instruction book that tells me that I only own the license to SF X T. My friend bought the game for me, I have checked everywhere and its nowhere. So, Capcom didn't sell us just a license to what it allows me to access. They sold us the game and everything on this disc.

Yet, they are withholding what is included on this disc. Should I not be pissed? I signed no agreement that I can only play what they allow me to access.

 

[branny]

1) This question has been asked several times but nobody has answered it: "Would you still be mad if the content WASN'T on the disc?"

Why not just ask if people would prefer their on-disc characters locked or unlocked?

The point of this whole debacle is that the DLC already appears relatively finished on the disc, yet it's going to be kept out of reach for an arbitrary period of time or, worse, as a way to inflate the price of an otherwise completed game beyond $60. People feel ripped off by "Disc-Locked Content." It has nothing to do with the possibility that the characters wouldn't exist if it weren't for DLC plans, though that's certainly something they should keep in mind. If resources were devoted to creating these characters during development, and the fruit of that labor is locked away but wholly present on the disc, it's understandable for people to get upset. Otherwise, there's no reason why the game couldn't have been released sooner. This goes the same for all of the alternate costumes. I'm not going to antagonize those who feel slighted by what can essentially be argued as something quite similar to DRM on preexisting content. If this were genuine post-release DLC--if these characters only existed in rough form with an eta for completion shortly before the Vita version were released--I doubt anyone would be nearly as upset.

 

[vg260]

-Who here wants all 12 DLC characters playable day 1 for $60? Everyone buying the game.

-Who here is entitled to them day 1 just because they're done? No one. It's their creation and they can sell it however the hell they want.

 

[Castor Krieg]

The contents on the disc?

Like I said, you buy the DATA on the disk, you buy the case, the cd, the manual, you pay the cost of manufacturing etc etc. The same reason why PS Vita games are cheaper digitally than physical copies because they deduct the cost of all that stuff. Listen, I dont care if they charge for DLC, but cmon, take the content off the disk if you dont want people to unlock it. Its common sense...

I didn't sign anything stating that not everything on the disc was mine and I agree to being restricted from accessing certain content.


Once again, a magical ToS from a capcom rep did not enter my hands at the date of purchase. I bought the disc that contains said content, WHY, can I not use all of the content?

I don't really understand the discussion here. The way to sell digital product i.e. as a licence is well documented and standard by now. EULAs and ToS talk about them from the very fist moment digital products were being sold. As far as I know there is no legal challenge to that in the US. Publisher/developer are within their legal rights to do what they are doing. I don't get why you are trying to argue the opposite.

 

[jwhit28]

You know what is interesting? There is nowhere in this instruction book that tells me that I only own the license to SF X T. My friend bought the game for me, I have checked everywhere and its nowhere. So, Capcom didn't sell us just a license to what it allows me to access. They sold us the game and everything on this disc.

Yet, they are withholding what is included on this disc. Should I not be pissed? I signed no agreement that I can only play what they allow me to access.

I'm pretty sure every game says you only own a limited software license unless they stopped putting that piece of paper in the game boxes too.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I cannot WAIT to hear how much Capcom is gonna be charging for each of these characters.

I hope it's fair. If the rumors are true, than the pricing will be better this time. I think it was like 4 characters for $7. Which is better than each character being $5.

So probably 3 different DLC packs?

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm so glad the release of UMvC 3 taught me to stop buying Capcom fighters.

 

[branny]

-Who here wants all 12 DLC characters playable day 1 for $60? Everyone buying the game.

-Who here is entitled to them day 1 just because they're done? No one. It's their creation and they can sell it however the hell they want.

So why defend their methods if it doesn't benefit the consumer?

Capcom jumped to 3D models and now has the ability to create alternate costumes. Companies like Namco, Sega, and Tecmo provide plenty of customization options in their 3D fighters. Should we defend Capcom for nickel-and-diming this type of content that other companies already include standard? Should we defend BlazBlue for lacking a color edit mode and selling additional colors as DLC? Etc., etc.

 

[TDLink]

Console games - check in manual. "By utilizing the purchased product, you acknowledge..."

I am not sure where you see this. Just looked at the manuals of two of my nearby games.

Looking at a Wii game I have lying around I see "IMPORTANT LEGAL INFORMATION" and the only thing it talks about is not copying/archiving/making a backup of YOUR software (note how it says it is YOURS).

In a PS3 game's manual near the back I see "USE OF UNAUTHORIZED PRODUCT" which says the same things the Wii one did but also adds in "unauthorized broadcast" (lol I guess every stream is breaking that one, oh well).

I have a feeling these vary by game in terminology but they seem to be consistent in that they primarily being a warning against copying of any sort.

Unlocking things on the disc is not replicating that disc or its contents in any way.

EDIT:

You know what is interesting? There is nowhere in this instruction book that tells me that I only own the license to SF X T. My friend bought the game for me, I have checked everywhere and its nowhere. So, Capcom didn't sell us just a license to what it allows me to access. They sold us the game and everything on this disc.

Yet, they are withholding what is included on this disc. Should I not be pissed? I signed no agreement that I can only play what they allow me to access.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

The price of the CD is included in the $60. What PLANET are you from?? Just like the price/cost of the case and manual and manufacturing are included in the $60 as well.

And where does it say that the 12 additional characters are included in the $60? Because I can find plenty of places where it DOESN'T say that.