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[Handy Fake]

I've noticed something since I was kindly allowed through the hallowed NeoGAF gates.

It's something I've come to think of as The Rule of Ten (Pages).

Essentially, you get the initial discussion and most if not all points covered and argued within the first ten pages, then a poster will come along who can't be arsed to read the first ten pages and will plonk in something they probably assume to be "new", or "witty", and those already hopelessly lost within the thread will have to go round again citing their arguments whilst other posters who haven't been arsed to read the first ten pages will counter their arguments with points raised in the first ten pages.

It's fascinating.

Anyway, I love it. Continue.

Spoiler

I'm going to post this again in ten pages just to make a point.
Unless someone posted it ten pages ago and I missed it because I couldn't be arsed to read those ten pages.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

The spin, oh God the spin! Lol I could season my chilli with this salt.

To the poster who mentioned no system sellers like Halo and Mario 64, should the PS4 have a game like that? Would it make it sell better than it already is? Can you even sell better considering limited stock.... And the greatest irony is that those "system sellers" is that the consoles sold like shit.

I'm confused why people continue to point out that Sony doesn't have a "System seller".

Sony's MO is having a diverse game line up produced by their first party studios. That's why it sells so well world wide, and not in just one giant market. It has flavors everyone can enjoy. That's why I will get the PS4, because I can expect to have a plethora of experiences.

 

[LegendofLex]

Digital as well.

Still, an attach rate of 3 seems pretty healthy so far, especially because they only need an attach rate of 2 (IIRC) to be profitable.

This is not technically true.

They need those attach rates to make a hardware sale profitable.

The software then needs to be profitable.

 

[TS-08]

You think Nintendo sold all those Wii's because of Zelda and Mario? Then why is the Wii U selling so poorly? Exclusives do matter, but they're not what sells most consoles. They sell some (a very good amount, tbf), but not to the extent you seem to think so. I just don't think the average consumer is deciding between a PS4 and XB1 and thinking "what would I rather play, Halo or Uncharted?" Its more like "what are my friends buying? what costs less? which one have i heard is better?"

Yep. Exclusives matter, but unless you make a Wii Sports-type phenomenon, being the multiplat king is what you want. Destiny will probably do more for the PS4 than any exclusive will do for the XB1 this year.

 

[MercuryLS]

People need to find a way to downplay the success.

Edit: Which is hilarious since we just got out of this

Lots of people here have short term memory. Sony went nuts with 1st party dev last gen, their teams got stronger/better. Tons of great big budget exclusive with The Last of Us and Beyond last year along with the awesome Puppeteer. This year we got Infamous which was great. People asking where the big Sony exclusives are, the answer is, it takes fucking time. Sony could have cancelled the PS3 version of TLOU and Beyond and pushed them to PS4, but they didn't. Just like they didn't cancel Shadow of the Colossus and GOW2 on PS2 to make hasty PS3 versions of these games. It's one of the reasons their new consoles start off slow for exclusives as many of their teams are ramping up on the new console. We will see more and more out of SWWS over time and that will accelerate, just like every PS machine. You'd think people would know this by now.

 

[Christopher]

Before I bite the bullet just to make sure I can't play PS3 games on this right? Or my previous PSN games? Ill hold onto ps3 for kingdom hearts 2 then

 

[Randolph Freelander]

How can you make the assumption that the average 360 gamer didn't own those titles when not accounting for the used game market? Are digital downloads also included in your numbers? Reaching at least 1/8th of your userbase is impressive in itself, I can't think of anything in the modern era with an attach rate of over 15-20% that didn't come bundled. I could be wrong though.

Exclusives matter or else Sony and MS wouldn't even bother with first party games. It isn't like the early 1990s where you've got games like Super Mario World and Sonic swaying purchasing decisions but that element still exists.

I'm making the assumption that the average Halo 3 or Reach disc wasn't sold 4+ times. If it was, then certainly my "average owner" claim flies right out the window, and I need to buy GameStop stock.

 

[SeanR1221]

So I remember some people said Sony would try and sit on this news until after MS made an announcement of something like top selling next gen console in March.

I wonder if it's just the opposite, and they're beating them to an announcement punch.

Either way, tomorrow will be interesting.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Before I bite the bullet just to make sure I can't play PS3 games on this right? Or my previous PSN games? Ill hold onto ps3 for kingdom hearts 2 then

Correct, you can't play PSN games on the PS4 unless it's cross-play.

 

[RE_Player]

Sony has this generation in the bag. No way they lose their strong hold in Europe. North America seems to be heathy for both consoles with PS4 leading and in terms of the console space Sony picks up the scraps of Japan with Microsoft having no chance to gain a significant foothold there.

I'll be curious to see how long these consoles last. I could see Microsoft pulling the trigger early like they did with the 360 to gain some early momentum.

 

[ShirAhava]

I've noticed something since I was kindly allowed through the hallowed NeoGAF gates.

It's something I've come to think of as The Rule of Ten (Pages).

Essentially, you get the initial discussion and most if not all points covered and argued within the first ten pages, then a poster will come along who can't be arsed to read the first ten pages and will plonk in something they probably assume to be "new", or "witty", and those already hopelessly lost within the thread will have to go round again citing their arguments whilst other posters who haven't been arsed to read the first ten pages will counter their arguments with points raised in the first ten pages.

It's fascinating.

Anyway, I love it. Continue.

Spoiler

I'm going to post this again in ten pages just to make a point.
Unless someone posted it ten pages ago and I missed it because I couldn't be arsed to read those ten pages.

Your the one Neo.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

The thing is, that even disregarding all of the other arguments regarding what exactly sells consoles...


You are still wrong.

Killzone has sold more than 2 million copies a while ago, which means it had a very healthy attach rate, while Infamous reached one million units faster than any of the previous ones on a much smaller userbase. People DO want to play these games.

Disregarding? Uh, no.

After I essentially say PS4 doesn't have many exclusives worth playing a bunch of posters pounce on the dissenting opinion, instantly going on the defensive. I don't mind having a debate or anything like that, which comes naturally with different viewpoints, but when some people here twist your words into a different meaning or get snarky because you said something negative about a mega corporation they love, it gets old. Fast.

You throwing out those numbers only helps my point that exclusive content matters. Those are impressive stats for games that only appear on Sony hardware, guess they do matter, right?

 

[Handy Fake]

Lots of people here have short term memory. Sony went nuts with 1st party dev last gen, their teams got stronger/better. Tons of great big budget exclusive with The Last of Us and Beyond last year along with the awesome Puppeteer. This year we got Infamous which was great. People asking where the big Sony exclusives are, the answer is, it takes fucking time. Sony could have cancelled the PS3 version of TLOU and Beyond and pushed them to PS4, but they didn't. Just like they didn't cancel Shadow of the Colossus and GOW2 on PS2 to make hasty PS3 versions of these games. It's one of the reasons their new consoles start off slow for exclusives as many of their teams are ramping up on the new console. We will see more and more out of SWW over time and that will accelerate, just like every PS machine. You'd think people would know this by now.

The sheer willpower garnered not to have used The Last Guardian as an example in the above post must have brought you to the brink of death.

You're, of course, right.

 

[Radec]

Wait, some people here thinks the Xbone is @6m by now?

If it was, we won't be seeing unofficial price cuts and bundle from retailers.

Come on now.

 

[MercuryLS]

The sheer willpower garnered not to have used The Last Guardian as an example in the above post must have brought you to the brink of death.

You're, of course, right.

I try not to think about TLG, it hurts too much.

 

[DeviantBoi]

Sony followed one simple rule and it's paying great for them: "Don't be a dick."

 

[CoG]

Wait, some people here thinks the Xbone is @6m by now?

If it was, we won't be seeing unofficial price cuts and bundle from retailers.

Come on now.

No "We some N million consoles" or "Titanfall sold > 1M" announcements is a bit troubling.

 

[RedAssedApe]

argh they keep teasing the firmware. i have a feeling i will be disappoint like the 1.6 release :|

 

[Christopher]

Correct, you can't play PSN games on the PS4 unless it's cross-play.

Thanks good bye sonic adventure

 

[Hades Hotgun]

The main reason people buy a console is for exclusive software they can't get anywhere els..

No, they really do not.

You keep basing your posts on this false premise. The reality is that games sell systems, exclusive or not, and PS4 has many of the best selling games right now.

 

[Syphon Filter]

argh they keep teasing the firmware. i have a feeling i will be disappoint like the 1.6 release :|

Then what have they been doing all this time? It will have something good i think.Need that library organization ; )

 

[figadapaura]

argh they keep teasing the firmware. i have a feeling i will be disappoint like the 1.6 release :|

PS4 not yet stable enough to handle all these new features.

 

[Salex_]

I'm really getting tired of seeing the word "system seller" on this forum. No one can define it whenever I ask them. The two most common "definitions" are based on someone's feelings of the IP and using software sales (which doesn't say anything about the influence on hardware sales).

What exactly does a "system seller" do?

 

[Amir0x]

Wait, some people here thinks the Xbone is @6m by now?

If it was, we won't be seeing unofficial price cuts and bundle from retailers.

Come on now.

I don't think anyone really believes that, unless they were misinformed previously as to where Xbox One is at. They'd be lucky to be at 4.5 million sell through. I think they will win March NPD, but it's not going to be even remotely large enough to even put a moderate dent in the gap, and in actuality Sony will almost certainly still have sold more units worldwide than Microsoft did in March because they actually sell in other territories sometimes 4:1 or 6:1. As Y2Kev said, it's a snowball effect - more people get the PS4, they talk about, their friends get it, they tell their friends. The games are all better looking and shit on the system. And it's cheaper. It's just smart consumer decision-making. I don't know how Microsoft fights against this trend now that Titanfall hype is done, and consumers are going to go back to the stark wall of a $500 system with a peripheral they don't want forced upon them and that has the worst versions of all multiplatform games. What Microsoft needs is a drastic change in approach if they are serious about improving their competitiveness. They need a permanent drop in America to the $399.99 Titanfall bundle.

 

[EmptySpace]

Wait, some people here thinks the Xbone is @6m by now?

If it was, we won't be seeing unofficial price cuts and bundle from retailers.

Come on now.

and then, bam! xbone @ 6m tomorrow when npd drops.

i can just imagine the meltdown.

but honestly, shouldn't it be there by now? their most heavily-advertised, e3 closer just dropped. they should get their money's worth.

 

[Heshinsi]

Wait, some people here thinks the Xbone is @6m by now?

If it was, we won't be seeing unofficial price cuts and bundle from retailers.

Come on now.

Unless they're joking:

Microsoft to announce they've reached 6 mil next week.

I am sure the xb1 has to be close to 6 mill by now.

 

[Amir0x]

and then, bam! xbone @ 6m tomorrow when npd drops.

i can just imagine the meltdown.

EVERYONE, including probably all the mods on GAF, myself and the entire community, would likely meltdown. I think it'd be the first recorded instance of mass community meltdowning in the game industries history.

They'd have to sell almost 2 million units in NPD alone for March. It'd be almost like a literal miracle.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm really getting tired of seeing the word "system seller" on this forum. No one can define it whenever I ask them. The two most common "definitions" are based on someone's feelings of the IP and using software sales (which doesn't say anything about the influence on hardware sales).

What exactly does a "system seller" do?

It moves systems...

 

[TomShoe]

snip

You're wrong. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. Soda Drinker Pro will be the true next-gen experience.. Believe the hype.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Syphon Filter]

and then, bam! xbone @ 6m tomorrow when npd drops.

i can just imagine the meltdown.

but honestly, shouldn't it be there by now? their most heavily-advertised, e3 closer just dropped. they should get their money's worth.

where is ps4 ltd in the u.s right now? that and lower europe numbers means xbox one is no where near 6 million,they will be lucky to be at 5.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm making the assumption that the average Halo 3 or Reach disc wasn't sold 4+ times. If it was, then certainly my "average owner" claim flies right out the window, and I need to buy GameStop stock.

When Halo 3 launched the Xbox 360 had an install base of around 8 million. Halo 3 sold 3.3 million copies within the first two weeks of release, not sure where you're getting the low attach rates from. The average owner DID own the game when it first came launched. Of course that attach rate is going to go down over time as new consumers join the pool and new software in the series is released.

I think you're downplaying the importance of exclusive software. It doesn't matter like it did in the early 90s but it still plays a factor in purchasing decisions for some.

 

[Biker19]

Lots of people here have short term memory. Sony went nuts with 1st party dev last gen, their teams got stronger/better. Tons of great big budget exclusive with The Last of Us and Beyond last year along with the awesome Puppeteer. This year we got Infamous which was great. People asking where the big Sony exclusives are, the answer is, it takes fucking time. Sony could have cancelled the PS3 version of TLOU and Beyond and pushed them to PS4, but they didn't. Just like they didn't cancel Shadow of the Colossus and GOW2 on PS2 to make hasty PS3 versions of these games. It's one of the reasons their new consoles start off slow for exclusives as many of their teams are ramping up on the new console. We will see more and more out of SWWS over time and that will accelerate, just like every PS machine. You'd think people would know this by now.

This. It's like the story of the Tortoise & the Hare.

Take the Hare (who's Microsoft), in which he's been bringing out loads of exclusives at the beginning of each generation. But later on, he's began to slow down on that front, & is outsmarted by the Tortoise (who's Sony), who always starts out slow first with the exclusives at the beginning of each generation, then comes out with more exclusives at the very end.

Sony starts out slow with the exclusives at the very beginning, then later on, they come out much faster. Been happening since PS2 & the Original Xbox, as I've been noticing this pattern between the two companies when it comes to exclusives.

 

[N.Domixis]

EVERYONE, including probably all the mods on GAF, myself and the entire community, would likely meltdown. I think it'd be the first recorded instance of mass community meltdowning in the game industries history.

They'd have to sell almost 2 million units in NPD alone for March. It'd be almost like a literal miracle.

The population of gaf would reach absolute 0 if that happened. We would have mods banning everyone and mods banning mods. It would signal the end of an era.

 

[Glorified G]

I don't understand how a console with nothing to play on it is selling so well.

Meanwhile in the real world...

PS4 software sales are another bright spot, with more than 20.5 million copies sold at retail and PlayStation Store worldwide as of April 13th, 2014.

 

[Salex_]

It moves systems...

So that's every game? So we can finally put this stupid term to rest.

People are buying or keeping their PS3s for Persona, baseball fans are buying a PS4 for MLB The Show, Bayoneeta/action fans are buying a Wii U for Bayonetta, etc.

Pretty much any good game will have at least one person who primary buys a console to play that game.

lol you buggin. It moves a noticeable amount of systems to be specific.

And what number is this? Aren't Mario and Halo the go to names when someone brings up the term system seller? How did Mario help the Gamecube? What did Halo do for the OG Xbox? Why didn't Halo stop the PS3 from outselling the 360 nearly every year WW?

Those examples are why I don't understand why this term is so common.

Lets say a sept month in the u.s is typically around 300k and a system seller released that month. It should move about 100k-200k extra systems.

I guess that makes sense, but a bump is rarely going to change anything. I think other factors are far more important than the one or 2 games that will temporary boost the sales.

 

[Handy Fake]

The population of gaf would reach absolute 0 if that happened. We would have mods banning everyone and mods banning mods. It would signal the end of an era.

At least well know what happened to Shinobi: He was lovingly spared the board's fate by being launched into space, across galaxies, to a different planet. There he would be adopted by a loving, childless couple. And one day, he shall rise from our ranks and become the Saviour of mankind.

Spoiler

And it's not Mark Cerny or Jesus.

 

[Syphon Filter]

So that's every game? So we can finally put this stupid term to rest.

People are buying or keeping their PS3s for Persona, baseball fans are buying a PS4 for MLB The Show, Bayoneeta/action fans are buying a Wii U for Bayonetta, etc.

Pretty much any good game will have at least one person who primary buys a console to play that game.

lol you buggin. It moves a noticeable amount of systems to be specific. GT in europe will increase a PS system sales by a noticeable amount,that is a system seller.

 

[Rambone]

This is awesome news, great work Sony. The more numbers the better, I hope this is going to be a prosperous generation for PS fans.

 

[MercuryLS]

This. It's like the story of the Tortoise & the Hare.

Take the Hare (who's Microsoft), in which they've been bringing out loads of exclusives at the beginning of each generation. But later on, they've begin to slow down on that front, & are outsmarted by the Tortoise (who's Sony), who always starts out slow first with the exclusives at the beginning of each generation, then comes out with more exclusives at the very end.

Sony starts out slow with the exclusives at the very beginning, then later on, they come out much faster. Been happening since PS2 & the Original Xbox, I believe, as I've been noticing this pattern between the two companies when it comes to exclusives.

Yup, the last two gens showed this and it's a big reason I went with PS4. Sony's committed to providing great exclusives for an entire gen (both existing and new IPs), MS comes on strong early on and fizzles out at the end where they milk their big IP's and and let 3rd party titles do the rest of the work. Can it change this gen with MS? Sure, but they need to show me that they're committed to great 1st party output for this whole gen (both existing and new IPs as well as building and supporting good 1st party teams). Sony's proven this to me for 2 gens, MS's track record here is not good. If you're buying a console for the long haul a few months into a new gen means nothing, what matters is the history of both companies and how they have delivered exclusive content over the long term in the past.

 

[Loudninja]

Software sales:
9.7 million on December 31st
13.7 million on March 3nd
20.5 million in April 13th

 

[Jimmyfenix]

The first to 10 million wins?

Spoiler

who said that again?

 

[Lace]

Very impressive numbers yet again, but I don't think this comes as a surprise to anyone. PS4 is selling like crazy with no idea in sight. Makes me glad since this will in turn result in more developer support (which I'm already seeing with almost every kickstarter including ps4).

In regards to exclusive software it means even less this gen. PS4 has FF14 as exclusive but that'll have absolutely no effect on the sales (even if it was the most hyped game). You can only sell as much stock as you can make, excess demand can't change that.

 

[iceatcs]

So that's every game? So we can finally put this stupid term to rest.

People are buying or keeping their PS3s for Persona, baseball fans are buying a PS4 for MLB The Show, Bayoneeta/action fans are buying a Wii U for Bayonetta, etc.

Pretty much any good game will have at least one person who primary buys a console to play that game.


And what number is this?

I see what you mean, "System Seller" can applied to every game because some might buy Wii for My Little Pony.

I would said "Killer Game" is a better wording, more impact sound. Basically it is same as "System Seller"

 

[Syphon Filter]

So that's every game? So we can finally put this stupid term to rest.

People are buying or keeping their PS3s for Persona, baseball fans are buying a PS4 for MLB The Show, Bayoneeta/action fans are buying a Wii U for Bayonetta, etc.

Pretty much any good game will have at least one person who primary buys a console to play that game.


And what number is this?

Lets say a sept month in the u.s is typically around 300k and a system seller released that month. It should move about 100k-200k extra systems.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Then what have they been doing all this time? It will have something good i think.Need that library organization ; )

\

 

[TheRealTalker]

Terrible idea

Fractured bones and blood everywhere

 

[coolasj19]

EVERYONE, including probably all the mods on GAF, myself and the entire community, would likely meltdown. I think it'd be the first recorded instance of mass community meltdowning in the game industries history.

They'd have to sell almost 2 million units in NPD alone for March. It'd be almost like a literal miracle.

You'd get a page of "Holy shit good news microsoft".
GopherD would come in on the 5th page and say " "Sales " ".
And then the accusations that MS secretly bought all of it's own stock to artificially boost sales. Then the Final Bosman episode 2 weeks later.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Software sales:
9.7 million on December 31st
13.7 million on March 3nd
20.5 million in April 13th

Kicking ass.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Terrible idea

Fractured bones and blood everywhere

lol

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Once the damn breaks and the software begins flowing strong, I think the PS4 will be a software selling monster.